Mike and Bruce Superbowl 1998

[Andrew G. Doe]

Given that the NASCAR CD was 'released' shortly after the appearence in question, and pointedly not credited to The Beach Boys, maybe they were lip-synching to those tracks ?

[Jay]

[/quote]
Would it be legal for any group to perform at a Super Bowl and on National TV, and play, for example, tracks from Live At Knebworth, and not get permission and/or compensate the Beach Boys for it?
[/quote]Not if a member of "America's Band" is AN ACTUAL BEACH BOY. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that Mike needs permission to perform his own music. Or rather, music he actively participated in the making of.

[Rocker]

Given that the NASCAR CD was 'released' shortly after the appearence in question, and pointedly not credited to The Beach Boys, maybe they were lip-synching to those tracks ?

The NASCAR-recordings were studio efforts. Carrie mentioned that they were playing to live-recorded tracks

They lip synced to a medley put together from live recordings from shows from around that time.

[Carrie Marks]

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[Andrew G. Doe]

Given that the NASCAR CD was 'released' shortly after the appearence in question, and pointedly not credited to The Beach Boys, maybe they were lip-synching to those tracks ?

The NASCAR-recordings were studio efforts. Carrie mentioned that they were playing to live-recorded tracks

They lip synced to a medley put together from live recordings from shows from around that time.

Memo to self: next time, read rest of thread before posting. 

[Sheriff John Stone]

Given that the NASCAR CD was 'released' shortly after the appearence in question, and pointedly not credited to The Beach Boys, maybe they were lip-synching to those tracks ?

Hmmm, you mean Mike Love, Bruce Johnston, David Marks and Dean Torrence recorded together as a TRIBUTE to the Beach Boys PRIOR to the Super Bowl appearance and then released the CD shortly after?   But how could that be....according to Sheriff John Stone, it was OBVIOUS by the billing that the Super Bowl was a one-off performance - and certainly NOT a plan of action set into motion to position himself for a post Carl & Al-less Beach Boys.

BTW Sheriff...just curious why you would quote me as a source of information about the tracks they may have lip-synced to, but you argued with me about Al not being aware of the show.  Do I know what I'm talking about or not?  How can you quote me as a source in one thread and tell me I'm wrong in another when my information for both threads is coming from the same source (people who were there)

Lastly, Mike may not have done shows as "AMerica's Band" until June...BUT, he was doing many shows with his solo band  (America's Band, Endless SUmmer band, Tribute the Beach Boys, etc) prior to the Super Bowl.  David's first show back was with Mike and Dean in August 1997 - not the official Beach Boys...maybe it was THAT show that they lip-synced to? 

Carrie, you have a habit of conveniently leaving things OUT when you try to counter my posts. Yes, it was obvious to me, and probably many others, that a band including Mike, Bruce and Dave - PLUS Dean Torrence, Glen Campbell, and John Stamos - would not be a long term lineup. See, you left out Glen Campbell and John Stamos's names above when you were trying to make me look wrong. Are you claiming that Mike was trying to start a band with Dean Torrence, Glen Campbell, and John Stamos in it? Is that your opinion or do you have any proof?

And, Carrie. the reason I agreed with you on one point (about the lipsynching), and disagreed with you about another point (about Al being unaware of he show; actually I wasn't disagreeing directly with YOU about Al), shows that I can be fair and open in debating issues on a message board - unlike some people. I don't try to make my posts personal. I don't agree or disagree with points based on the person who is making them.

Carrie, like I posted above, I don't give a damn about the whole debacle that went down after Carl passed, with or without Al, or with your husband for that matter. But apparently you do. You seem to want to make some point about Mike's takeover and pursuit of power. Fine. Post away. Nobody's disagreeing with you. I'm certainly not. I'm just directing my points to that one Super Bowl appearance, not the long range goals and aspirations of Mike Love. Geez, start a new thread and enlighten us about it!

[Carrie Marks]

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[Pretty Funky]

Out of interest Carrie, who would have made the call to lip-synch the show?

I have never seen the superbowl performance but all the names mentioned plus I guess sidemen should have been able to do the songs live surely?

[Jon Stebbins]

I think lip-synching at the Super Bowl is only a recently broken tradition...in the '90's to mid 2000's it was the norm.

[Sheriff John Stone]

SJS - first of all, I don't have a 'habit' of doing anything on this board because I rarely post anything other than about what David is up to, or to answer specific questions.  But occasionally, something gets posted under the guise of 'fact' that is totally invented in someone's mind and it bugs me...and in this case, your post saying Carl and Brian COULD HAVE out-voted Mike on the Super Bowl appearance but they opted for the cash instead didn't sit well with me and I corrected you...that's it!!!!

The Super Bowl was a Mike Love solo deal and therefore not subject to a BRI vote. What is so hard to accept about that?  Its a very pro-Mike stance stance actually!

I am a typical Libra and I see both sides of an arguement...I really like Al,  I think he's a great guy and consider him a friend so I think it sucks that he got ousted the way he did.  On the other hand, I just don't see why you think Carl and Brian SHOULD HAVE voted-down Mike's solo deal because Mike has every right in the world to work with, and for, whom ever he chooses...and good for him for landing the Super Bowl and a deal with Philips 76 and NASCAR.

OK, Carrie. This is my final reply (I can hear the applause from my living room )....

I stated that Brian and Carl could've stopped Mike's "performance" based entirely on Mike lipsynching previously recorded (released or unreleased) Beach Boys' live tracks, and having the other musicians basically playing "air guitar" to Beach Boys' music. I'm not a lawyer, but something just doesn't seem legal about that, unless both sides agree. In the Beach Boys' world, these things usually end up in litigation, and, money is usually exchanged between parties. That's it. That's all I was saying. Sorry if the WAY I worded it offended you. But, neither you or I know if Brian or Carl got compensated for the performance, again based on the use of the live tracks. Or, maybe you do know!

You are saying (if I'm correct) that because it was a Mike Love solo project, it didn't have to clear BRI. Yes, but I was never arguing that point. My point about stopping the performance was directed at stopping the performance OF THE BEACH BOYS' SONGS. Then, Mike would've had to resort to one of his solo offshoots; frankly, I'm shocked he was able to pull it off. Yes, Mike could call his group a lot of different names; there was a precedent in the 1970's with Celebration. I'm not arguing with you about Mike's motives, but you kept bringing up "Mike's plans" and Al's ouster, and trying to drag them - and me - into that debate. I'm not going there. My point, again, and I'm beating a dead horse, was/is - could he "perform" those live tracks, and did he have to compensate the Beach Boys, no matter what he was calling his band.

I can agree with you that "it sucks" the way Al got ousted - even though I don't know the particulars! When I said that I thought the Beach Boys (which I guess would include Al) knew about the performance, I was stating an opinion based purely on deductive reasoning. There was a Tribute To The Beach Boys being performed at The Super Bowl and on National TV. The lead singer of the Beach Boys was going to "sing" Beach Boys' songs. David Marks, Glen Campbell, Dean Torrence, and John Stamos - some fairly big names there - were hired to "perform" Beach Boys' songs. Live Beach Boys' tracks were going to be played at the stadium and on TV. I'm assuming the performance received some publicity somewhere - on the internet, TV, newspaper, radio, word of mouth, at live shows, BRI minutes, etc. And, The Beach Boys, including Al, didn't know anything about it? You don't have to tell me about the "world of the Beach Boys", I know about it. But, in my OPINION, I still find that hard to believe....

[Wilsonista]

It was the pre-game show and only 30 seconds of it got shown on TV (based on reading fan accounts from the day, it was treated like it was an afterthought).  As I recall, it was a tribute to the California Sound, not specfically the BB, which is why Dean Torrence was there. I don't recall there being a lot, if any advance publicity prior to their performance.  The big show that gets the limelight is the half-time show because it is shown during the TV telecast.

[Pretty Funky]

Its all water under the bridge now but this must have been a difficult time for all concerned for obvious reasons. We of course can only speculate what went down between Mike and Al at this time but my take is something like this.
I would not be surprised if Al was unsure, or felt it was inappropriate to be planning any kind of future for the Beach Boys late 97-early 98. he may have thought the time had come to retire the band. To put it another way, he would not commit to the band in 1998.

Bruce has mentioned in the past on the Britain board how dates start to fill early for the following years touring. So late 97 I could well imagine promoters wanting to book the BBs for the following summer. Mike could have turned them down flat, or say he could not legally provide 'The Beach Boys', but could provide a form of the band under another name.

Fast forward spring 98. Mike has a reasonable number of dates confirmed without using the BBs title. Bruce and established BB band members willing to tour along with Dave.

So the cash cow rolled on in 98 and the use later of the BBs title increased it. I don't recall hearing of many staying away from the shows because there was no Al Jardine so why would Mike want to bring him back?


Total speculation again.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Fast forward spring 98. Mike has a reasonable number of dates confirmed without using the BBs title.

I'd question that. From the info Ian & I got for the 1998 shows & sessions, there were only eight dates booked as "America's Band" prior to Mike getting the OK to tour as The Beach Boys in mid-July - and half of those were cancelled, presumably due to poor ticket sales. Even if you include the shows immediately after as pre-booked, between Alan's last show on May 5th and September 4th, AB/BB had precisely 12 shows scheduled. 1998 was one of their slowest touring years ever.

[Pretty Funky]

As this was a transition period it may have been 8 more gigs than even Mike expected!

[Jay]

This is a little off topic, but WHY did Mike "take over" the leadership? This isn't a put down of Mike, and I don't intend it to turn out that way. My question is, simply, why did Mike not want Al in the group? Why did he want Dave back in the group? Now, here is the BIG question: Why was Carl presumably totally left out? I realise that Carl was very sick by this point, but it was still his band. Not HIS band, but "his band" in the sense that he always participated in concerts, and recording sessions. Why would Mike and Bruce allow Carl to find out from Dave that he, Dave, was back in the band? As Andrew made it more than clear in his last post, it wasn't like Mike was making millions off of his being the "leader". At least not by this point(1997-8).

[Jon Stebbins]

This is a little off topic, but WHY did Mike "take over" the leadership? This isn't a put down of Mike, and I don't intend it to turn out that way. My question is, simply, why did Mike not want Al in the group? Why did he want Dave back in the group? Now, here is the BIG question: Why was Carl presumably totally left out? I realise that Carl was very sick by this point, but it was still his band. Not HIS band, but "his band" in the sense that he always participated in concerts, and recording sessions. Why would Mike and Bruce allow Carl to find out from Dave that he, Dave, was back in the band? As Andrew made it more than clear in his last post, it wasn't like Mike was making millions off of his being the "leader". At least not by this point(1997-8).

Carl didn't "find out from Dave" that Dave was back in the band. He found out from the L.A. Times. All of this is addressed in The Lost Beach Boy book... which was published by Virgin books a couple of years ago.

[Outie 315]

Sit quietly with your eyes closed and without effort repeat the following:
MeLeCo,,,,MeLeCo,,,,MeLeCo,,,,MeLeCo.....~

[smile-holland]

Meleco... as in: Mike's own label? I only know of the Catch A Wave CD. And that was 1996.

[KokoMoses]

You're book is amazing, btw, Jon!

My favorite BBs related book thus far! Second only to The Real Beach Boy!

Will you PLEASE do us a favor and write a bio of Mike next?

Someone HAS to do it!

Right?

[Eric Aniversario]

I'm going to bump this thread because I happened upon it, and think it's interesting.

[Cam Mott]

Wasn't it billed as "A Celebration of California featuring Fifth Dimension, members of the Beach Boys,..." etc. etc.? Something to do with a centenial of some sort for California or some such?

OK, found it on NFL site: "A celebration of music and history of California. Performances by The Fifth Dimension, Lee Greenwood and members of the Beach Boys."

[NHC]

Wasn't it billed as "A Celebration of California featuring Fifth Dimension, members of the Beach Boys,..." etc. etc.? Something to do with a centenial of some sort for California or some such?

OK, found it on NFL site: "A celebration of music and history of California. Performances by The Fifth Dimension, Lee Greenwood and members of the Beach Boys."

Well, that should stop some of the debate.  But it won't.

[Rocky Raccoon]

I've seen pictures of the Beach Boys with Brian doing Superbowl pregame in 1987.  Anybody know anything about that?

[Cam Mott]

Wasn't it billed as "A Celebration of California featuring Fifth Dimension, members of the Beach Boys,..." etc. etc.? Something to do with a centenial of some sort for California or some such?

OK, found it on NFL site: "A celebration of music and history of California. Performances by The Fifth Dimension, Lee Greenwood and members of the Beach Boys."

Well, that should stop some of the debate.  But it won't.

Probably not.

Maybe a highly regarded concert information resource could correct their info in this regard and that might help.

[Cam Mott]

Here it is:

http://www.nfl.com/superbowl/history/entertainment

Not "to The Beach Boys" but "to CALIFORNIA" and not as "The Beach Boys" but "MEMBERS OF the Beach Boys". Too hamfisted? Sorry.

To really get to the bottom of it, does anyone have the actual footage/sound of the performance or the announcements of the performance? The stuff that aired that would have been seen/heard by Brian, Carl, and Al?