The Handwritten Smile Song Titles Note

[The Song Of The Grange]

I waited a week to post a new topic so as to not overstay my welcome with  my obsessive Smile questions!

Ok.  We've all seen it.  The hand written Smile track listing used to print the purposed back cover.  I have read a lot of conflicting things about this note.  Is there some sort of consensus among the Smile-ologists about the list?  I read (I think on the Smile Shop) that some people think it isn't Brian's handwriting at all, that it might be Carl's writing.  The same source suggests that Brian says he never remembers seeing the list.  But on the other hand there is all this stuff in print and on the web about Brian handing Karl Engmann the note on December 16th as if it were a well known fact. 

Along with this there are so many other mysteries I have wondered about over the years as I have spent hours pouring over the photo copy of the note in Priore's Look Listen Vibrate Smile.  I consider the list to not be at all close to a would be playing order, being that it would be totally front loaded with the major songs on the first side (and of course there is the famous note on the dust jacket to "see record for playing order").  But beyond this, there are many questions raised:

Who wrote the note? 
If it was Carl, was he just jotting down titles off the top of his head?
If someone else wrote it, how did they put it together?  I could see some guy at Capitol making the list using Union session sheets or something.
If Brian didn't write the list, why would he let Capitol print of such an in accurate list?  Thinking of how detailed he was in putting together other BBs albums, why would he not care what was printed on the back?  No other original BBs album I have has an inaccurate track listing on the dust jacket (I could be wrong).
Did who ever wrote the list know what they were talking about?  Could someone have just wrote down some titles they had heard floating around, not knowing what was a song and what was a modular fragment?  This goes back to the last question about Brian not appearing to care or be in control of the album art planning process.
Why are Wind Chimes and Vega-tables listed as separate tracks?  I have heard it was because they might be singles, but that sounds sketchy to me.  (I once tried to ask Frank Holmes about this when I was briefly in contact with him, wondering if he had been specifically told by VDP that Vega-tables was in the Elements, or if he (Holmes) had just kind of made that up for the title.  Alas, never heard back form him.)
Is some part of the list actually in the correct order?  I've always wondered this.
Why does Old Master Painter have parenthesis around it, that have been scribbled out?  The parenthesis suggest that for a second it was thought of as a lesser title, and then the writer thought otherwise and scribbled out the brackets.
Why did the writer put Do You Like Worms at the top of the list?  Just the first title that came to mind? What does the order of the list tell us about Brian's (or whoever's) concept at the time.  Did Wind Chimes just come to mind second?
I read someplace (maybe also on Smile Shop) that someone claims they saw a proof of the back cover art that had lots of read pen markings for changes to be made, implying that the actual back cover that Capitol printed 300,000 of had yet another track listing/order on it.  Is it true?  What I wouldn't give to see an original Smile dust jacket.  They couldn't have pulped every last one of them.


OK, I'll stop.  I could go on forever.  You see what I mean.  The handwritten list is a big Smile mystery. One of the biggest.

[Jason]

Another rumor is that the handwriting was Diane's.

[sofonanm]

i can't answer a single question but it's always seemed fucking stupid to me to bother the producer for song titles and a running order for an album that isn't even finished just to print up the record jackets.

i mean, what if he decided last minute that one of the tracks listed on the already printed jackets wasn't going to be on? it's all around retarded.

[Chris Brown]

The note certainly opens up a lot of questions.  I think the consensus we came to when it was discussed a few years back was that Carl wrote it at the direction of Brian.  Moreover, the theory was put out that Brian gave the list to Capital just to get them off his back...to at least give them SOMETHING, as they were probably starting to freak out a bit by mid-December.  Perhaps he didn't intend for them to go and make all of those record sleeves based on it, but I think the list was comprised of the songs he felt were most near completion for a mid-January release.

I don't put any stock in the list as any indication of playing order.  Like I said, I think it was a random jotting down of titles.  God knows that Brian couldn't make up his mind about much at that point, let alone the sequence of the album.

Without the list in front of me, I'm in no position to postulate on your other questions, but I'm sure others around here know more and can hopefully provide some answers.  The list certainly warrants futher discussion.

[Andrew G. Doe]

Brian didn't write the note - it's nothing like his handwriting in 1966. The leading contender is Carl, with Diane Rovell in second, but a few lengths back.

Capitol didn't print up 300,000 of the back sleeve slick. At best, they made maybe a dozen prints from the original artwork to mock up some sleeves for the band to look at. Hence the revision markings.

Yes, it is a big mystery... but maybe not all that significant.

[sockittome]

Capitol didn't print up 300,000 of the back sleeve slick. At best, they made maybe a dozen prints from the original artwork to mock up some sleeves for the band to look at.

But what about the statement in the 2-fer booklet that "a warehouse full of covers and booklets began collecting dust, waiting for vinyl"?  I always took this to mean complete covers ready to go.  Or is this yet another "2-fer booklet gaffe"?

[Been Too Long]

Sorry if this doesn’t really answer anything but…
I don’t understand what the problem with the track list is. Whether he had Carl or even more likely Diane write it, this seems extremely likely to be sent from the producer to the label. I remember reading, and I’ll have to look it up but, back around the time that Good Vibrations had been released that Brian said Smile would included “Good Vibrations, Heroes and Villains and ten other tracks.” Well, here’s that list. It includes all the titles that he had been working on over the past 3 months or so with a few title revisions, “Home on the Range” became “Cabin Essence” during the sessions while “My Only Sunshine” was renamed “The Old Master Painter” but only listed that way on this track list and back cover, so that’s not a title someone looking at sessions would come up with.

I know in the past there were problems with this list like the lack of anything for “I’m in great shape” except the unheard vocal session and the “Friday Night(I’m in great shape)” session and section, but, in the past 10 to 15 years we’ve gotten a verse vocal and a verse track so we know there was more to this song.

There was the problem with Vegetables being on the list because it was not worked on until April ’67 but now we have the “cornucopia” version not from those sessions but very likely from before the list was written.
Also the idea came up that smile was always going to be in 3 movements/ suites, but even if somehow this had been the idea at one time it never made it onto tape. Brian was recording songs with verses and choruses and FADES from the first sessions for the album onward. Even some of the random sections like Friday Night and Barnyard ARE fades. This makes the idea of the 12 tracks on the list more likely.

There was the problem that the list didn’t include “Holidays” and “Look(I Ran)” but as cool as these tracks are there’s no reason that Brian wouldn’t just leave them off just like Trombone Dixie from Pet Sounds, Sandy from Summer Days, Back Home, etc. Brian picked the tracks he wanted and maybe Holidays and Look would come out on later albums.

It’s been thought that Brian didn’t know what the songs were and was just kept writing and recording complete new ideas but Van Dyke, his collaborator, has said that his involvement was over before the Fire session at end of November so the songs were written by then. This track list came out after that time so the songs were known. Brian never worked outside these titles until the announcement of Smile’s scrapping five months later. These were complete songs, new little sections added or new tracks under the vocals, but songs. Think about Surf’s Up, without Brian’s two piano demos, we would only think of it as that little piece of track for the first movement, but we can tell from the demos that it’s two verses, a second section and a tag/fade. We’re missing this for the other songs and we just have little scraps like Surf’s Up track.

So after all this time, what exactly are the current issues with this list? As far as I can tell this is what the album was intended to be.
Just curious.

[Cam Mott]

Well said.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

I always sort of assumed that Brian  tossed the note off in about ten seconds-he couldn't be bothered with that sort of 'outside' nonsense. I could imagine Capitol going to Carl and saying 'Hey, could you maybe get with Brian? We at least would like to know the songs that are gonna be on the album. We want to have the covers ready to go when he gives us the album'. Carl goes to Brian and Brian rambles off the 'main' tracks that he was working on-or Carl could have probably done it on his own, for that matter. If it didn't have to do with the music, it wasn't Brian's  time.

[PrayForSurf]

RE: Capitol didn't print up 300,000 of the back sleeve slick. At best, they made maybe a dozen prints from the original artwork to mock up some sleeves for the band to look at. Hence the revision markings.

They may not have made 300,000 but it was certainly more than dozen. I have one that was on display in a record store in Chicago in January of 1967.

RE: I don't put any stock in the list as any indication of playing order.  Like I said, I think it was a random jotting down of titles.  God knows that Brian couldn't make up his mind about much at that point, let alone the sequence of the album.

IMHO, Capital was so desperate for promotional material, they were happy just to have song titles ala the cover of Beach Boys Today: PLMW leads the list on the front cover with DDD and DYWD unfeatured in the string of songs, which concludes with "and three more great new songs written by Brian Wilson" even though only two more "songs" are on that album. On SMiLE they may have been willing, at least in promo material, to give a listing of song titles even though the eventual track order may be different.

[The Song Of The Grange]

Been Too Long, a very well written, cool headed post about this issue.  Great points.  I feel my thinking on the subject is more clear after reading the post.

I agree that Holidays and Look may have been left off.  Holidays was only work on once, and Look only had that one Oct 13th vocal session after its original tracking and was never touched again as far as I can tell.  So both those songs have a little bit shaky claim, though Pet Sounds (aka Run James Run) was recorded very early in the Pet Sounds era and if that record hadn't been released maybe we would be arguing the same issue with that track.  It's a tricky comparison though, since Trombone Dixie was left off, while Run James Run ended up making the cut.  Also, titles could have changed.  That Pet Sounds list I am looking at has Lets Go Away listed as The Old Man and The Baby.  Holidays and Look/I Ran are great, but they could have been left off for sure.

So, what exactly are the current issues with this list?  One of my biggest questions (mentioned in earlier post) is the Elements.  Mrs.  Oleary's Cow is slated as "The Elements part one--fire" at the session.  Ok, Fire is part one.  But if MOC is part one, then why is Wind Chimes and Vega-tables listed as stand alone tracks and not MOC (or the water section for that matter).  It makes me think Vega-tables wasn't the Earth section.  Isn't the only clue for this idea the Frank Holmes illustration?  I have wondered if Holmes himself made this connection, or if VDP actually told him, "Ok Frank, part of the Elements is Vega-tables, add that to your drawing."  I guess it is plausible that by the time of the list the Fire and Water tracks were in question.  Was the list made pre or post Fire sessions and Brian's abandonment of that track because of paranoia about structure fires?

In general I find the Elements to be problematic because it would have made for a big slow down or dead spot on the flow of a two sided LP if all elements were presented together.  The whole thing works on BWPS because of some new lyrics and the benefit of not having to conform to a 2 sided LP.  Once you throw that variable in, a connected back to back Elements dominates which ever side of the LP it is placed on.  One or Two instrumentals back to back (Fire and Water)?  (I don't consider Da Da a viable candidate for the Water section in an original concept Smile play list.  Da Da is practically a Smiley Smile session.)  I agree with those who have suggested that the Elements would have been scattered thematically over the LP.  MOC, for one thing, has lots of similarities with H&V, for instance MOC has the same key and chord structure as Barnshine and the re-record of it as H*V part 2.  It is also called Mrs Oleary's Cow, which puts it firmly in the Americana theme.  I kind of think that many or all of the Elements were part of the Americana section.  Also, you would think that if Wind Chimes was part of the Elements that it would be listed near the Elements on the list (and in the train of thought of the list maker).  Vega-tables does fit this pattern, and I would say that Old Master Painter could fit the same pattern (as being part of the Elements) because of its lyrical content, both sung and not sung (check out the words for the tune Old Master Painter--perfect fit for the Elements theme).

 

[Andrew G. Doe]

RE: Capitol didn't print up 300,000 of the back sleeve slick. At best, they made maybe a dozen prints from the original artwork to mock up some sleeves for the band to look at. Hence the revision markings.

They may not have made 300,000 but it was certainly more than dozen. I have one that was on display in a record store in Chicago in January of 1967.

You're misunderstanding me - Capitol did print about 400,000 of the front slick, and make up the same number of booklets... but the back slick contained track info, and that wasn't exactly forthcoming, hence the best they had to work with was a handwritten note and an artist's proof sheet. Strictly speaking, no true Smile covers exist, but rather the mockups Capitol prepared for the band to OK. I personally know of three and have handled one (complete with booklet - it scares me to thing how much that's worth to the right buyer...).

[juggler]

Been Too Long nailed it above.  In all likelihood, there's no big mystery about the tracklist.  Despite what Brian says now, common sense would suggest that neither Capitol nor Carl nor Diane was just making stuff up in December 1966.  Even if Brian didn't write the list, he must have dictated it.

There is nothing particularly unusual about the "see label for correct playing order" thing.   Capitol and Brian did exactly the same thing on Shut Down Volume 2.  That album contained the same "see label" admonition as its play order is completely different than what's listed on the back cover (other than leading off with "Fun, Fun, Fun").

In other words, this was Capitol's standard operating procedure when they were eager-beaver to get covers printed and Brian had not yet delivered a completed master.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Yeah, I also agree with Been Too Long's well-written post.

I was just gonna throw in a less concrete reason. At various times in their careers, due to various reasons, ALL of the Beach Boys could be jerks. They could all do and say things that disappoint you. But, in this instance, in dealing with their record company, Capitol Records, for something like this, which I think was important or else they (Capitol) wouldn't have asked for it, I just don't think Brian would've fu--ed with them. Somebody above mentioned that he could've just given them anything to get them off his back. I don't know. Around that time, Brian was flying high, but would've he blown them off that way, by intentionally, or unintentionally, deceiving them. Was Brian natured that way?

I've always put more stock into that list than most fans do.

[Andy B]

Wasn't there also a list of the tracks for Wild Honey on some typed out memo that included different tracks? I guess for most of the albums Brian and the boys didn't really know the final tracklisting until the last minute.

I think Juggler says it best Capitol were just giving Brian the hurry up. And for a band that was usually churning out 3 albums a year, he was overdue. And don't forget, there were very few bands or singers who actually had control over how their albums would finally be presented. They would record the songs, hand them over to the record company who'd release the record as they saw fit. Brian was one of the few who had some control in that respect, though obviously he still had to defer judgement to the label with Pet Sounds and Sloop John B for example.

My take on the list, is simply that it was a list most likely put together by Carl (who was of course working pretty close with Brian on the album) of the possible cuts for the next Beach Boys album. Nothing more or nothing less. There probably exists simillar lists for most of the other Beach Boys albums somewhere.

[Bicyclerider]

Wasn't there also a list of the tracks for Wild Honey on some typed out memo that included different tracks? I guess for most of the albums Brian and the boys didn't really know the final tracklisting until the last minute.

Yes, there was - in the same handwriting as the Smile track list.  And there was an early track list sent to Capitol of Pet Sounds, which differed from the final track list.

As for the Elements, it's not that hard to figure out.  When the booklet was done, Vegetables was part of the Elements -earth to be exact.  The cornucopia version had been recorded by then.  That was October.  By December, Vegetables had been broken out of The Elements to be it's own track/song - not unlike I'm in Great Shape had been part of Heroes and was now it's own track.  Wind Chimes - there's no evidence this was ever part of the Elements, even though the title is of course suggestive of that - but when Brian was asked about the "air" part of the Elements, he said is was a piano instrumental they never finished.  Wind Chimes doesn't fit that description.

so The Elements was Fire/Water - and Water was the Water Chant.  At least in December.  You may like to believe that Dada, recorded in May, was meant to complete the Water section of Elements - it may very well have been.  But it hadn't been written by early December, at least as far as the session record shows - the first attempt at it was in January (3rd) at the end of a Heroes session.  And it was titled "All Day" which wasn't particularly water-y.

By the way the Fire session was Nov. 28, the track list was submitted Dec 10.  Less than two weeks later.

[Chris Brown]

Wasn't there also a list of the tracks for Wild Honey on some typed out memo that included different tracks? I guess for most of the albums Brian and the boys didn't really know the final tracklisting until the last minute.

Yes, there was - in the same handwriting as the Smile track list.  And there was an early track list sent to Capitol of Pet Sounds, which differed from the final track list.

As for the Elements, it's not that hard to figure out.  When the booklet was done, Vegetables was part of the Elements -earth to be exact.  The cornucopia version had been recorded by then.  That was October.  By December, Vegetables had been broken out of The Elements to be it's own track/song - not unlike I'm in Great Shape had been part of Heroes and was now it's own track.  Wind Chimes - there's no evidence this was ever part of the Elements, even though the title is of course suggestive of that - but when Brian was asked about the "air" part of the Elements, he said is was a piano instrumental they never finished.  Wind Chimes doesn't fit that description.

so The Elements was Fire/Water - and Water was the Water Chant.  At least in December.  You may like to believe that Dada, recorded in May, was meant to complete the Water section of Elements - it may very well have been.  But it hadn't been written by early December, at least as far as the session record shows - the first attempt at it was in January (3rd) at the end of a Heroes session.  And it was titled "All Day" which wasn't particularly water-y.

By the way the Fire session was Nov. 28, the track list was submitted Dec 10.  Less than two weeks later.

I think your assesment of The Elements is spot on...the only element we know for certain based on session tapes is Fire.  We can be pretty certain that Vegetables was Earth, based on the Holmes drawing.  I doubt we have ever heard the piano piece that Brian described as "Air," although somebody theorized on here awhile back that it may have been that third section of Wind Chimes.  I don't think that's the case, but it may have been a variation or something similar.  Water Chant being Water makes perfect sense as well, even though there is no way to confirm it.

Put it all together, and you have a trippy little suite that I think would have flowed nicely.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Yes, and on BWPS, if "On A Holiday" wasn't inserted where it was, you would've had that line-up:

Earth: "Vegetables"
Wind: "Wind Chimes
Fire: "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow"
Water: "In Blue Hawaii"

"On A Holiday" fits nicely, but I wonder if Darian struggled putting it in there, you know, breaking up the order?

EDIT: Just as an afterthought....without "On A Holiday" in there, the "whispering winds" segment could've been placed at the END of "Wind Chimes", just like the Smiley Smile version, making the transition to "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" smoother.

[The Song Of The Grange]

Sheriff (and anybody else), do you put any stock in Mrs Oleary's Cow being the first track of the Elements because the session has it announced as "The Elements Part 1 Fire"?

And what about I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night, is that just part of the fire segment.  I trust Carol Kaye when she says Brian told her that Friday Night was rebuilding after the fire.  I Wanna Be Around seems to be a playful cover song pun on the lyric "pick up the pieces."  And if you take this as truth, then it opens up other possibilities, such as Old Master Painter being part of The Elements.  By the same logic that I Wanna Be Round fits with fire, Old Master Painter/Sunshine fits with earth and possibly air (sun shines through the air?).  By this same reasoning I can't help but think that the lyric "I'm in the great shape of the agriculture" has something to so with the Elements, and what is more "earthy" than a barnyard?  And what about "the church of the American Indian" ie mother nature?  Vegetables and I Wanna Be Round/Friday Night steer the Elements away from instrumental, pictoral music.  I guess I can't expect the Elements to have been one thing or another.  I think Wind Chimes and Da Da/Blue Hawaii became part of the BWPS Elements because of popular demand.  All of us Smile fans built this myth over the years, guys like Domenic Priore in particular, and when BWPS was made, the folks involved were well aware of the popular assumptions.  In this way, the fans kind of helped finish Smile de facto.  That said, I am the one who suggested awhile back that the multi-piano tag to the box set Wind Chimes version could have been the "piano only" Air section.  It was piano, no vocals, and they never finished it--never mixed or released it.

I think the list most have been written by Carl.  I looked at Diane Rovell's signature on a union session sheet and she makes her "D's" much different than the "D" in Do You Like Worms from the list.  This does not totally rule her out, but in my mind it pushes it towards Carl (or someone else).

Also, the list seems to be roughly ordered in a most important to lesser importance order.  The real heavy hitters of Smile are all up there at the front of the list.  It shows us what we already assume to be the cornerstone songs of Smile.  Those first 7 tracks on the list would have been the corners of the album, first or last on either side.  I think that much we can safely be sure about.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Sheriff (and anybody else), do you put any stock in Mrs Oleary's Cow being the first track of the Elements because the session has it announced as "The Elements Part 1 Fire"?

Interesting question! The point about how it was listed on the session sheet makes you wonder, the points you raised (about opening up OTHER possibilities) makes you wonder, but, most of all, the Carol Kaye theory is intriguing. It has been shown that Carol can "stretch the truth" on certain songs (especially the ones she did/didn't play on), but it would be hard to make up something like the connection of re-building the barn after the fire - if she didn't hear it from someone close to the song. When did she make the quote?

I've always believed the song was intended BEFORE the fire, not related to "The Elements" for two reasons, one good and one not so good. First the not so good.

Aren't the elements always or usually referred to as Earth, Wind, Fire, and Water - in that order? Well, then Water (the "Water Chant" and/or "Dada") would follow the Fire, not "The Workshop". I guess you could put it after the water....I know, that's weak, but I do feel that way.

This is the second reason, and, I promise I'm not trying to be a sarcastic SOB. If "I Wanna Be Around/Workshop" was to follow the fire, signifying re-building the barn, why didn't it come out that way on BWPS. Again, not to re-start the debate, but, if Brian was seriously involved in BWPS, it would've been quite simple for him to say to Darian, "Put the workshop after the fire." He could've done that from his couch!

This might shock many here, but I like "IWBA/Workshop" where it is on BWPS, before "Vegetables". Oh, it should've followed "Cabinessence" (I flip-flop the movements myself), but I think "IWBA/Workshop" works best as either building "the home on the range" (after "Cabinessence"), or building the cart to "cart off and sell" the vegetables.

[Bicyclerider]

I don't think IWBA/Friday Night was ever meant to be part of Fire.  Way too much has been made of Brian's offhand remark to Carol that this was "rebuilding after the fire."  I interpret that to mean that he was making positive, creative (literally creative - as in woodshop, music that incorporated sounds of making things into the song) music after having created the negative, destructuve fire energy the day before, not that IWBA/FN was the second part of Fire.  Brian was still a bit freaked out by the Fire session and the music and this was music to counterbalance the sinister "bad vibes" of that day.

Let's think about it - if Brian had meant IWBA/FN to be part of Fire/The Elements, why would the session slate be "Friday Night" rather than "The Elements Part 2 Fire" as it had been "The Elements Part 1 Fire" the day before?  why would the session sheet list the song as "Friday Night" rather than the elements?  And why wouldn't anyone other than Carol (like Anderle, Vosse, Van Dyke, Carl, Derek Taylor) have any recall of this piece being part of Fire/The Elements?  In Vosse's P.R. piece on the session (reprinted in LLVS), there's no mention of this being part of The Elements. 

Now if you say this is part of I'm in Great Shape, I think there's a better argument to be made.

[A Million Units In Jan!]

And isn't Carol sort of known to be, er, how do I say this....perhaps a little bit unreliable? Just going by some things I've heard, mind you....

[Andrew G. Doe]

I hear the Pope's Catholic, too...

[Andy B]

I don't think IWBA/Friday Night was ever meant to be part of Fire.  Way too much has been made of Brian's offhand remark to Carol that this was "rebuilding after the fire."  I interpret that to mean that he was making positive, creative (literally creative - as in woodshop, music that incorporated sounds of making things into the song) music after having created the negative, destructuve fire energy the day before, not that IWBA/FN was the second part of Fire.  Brian was still a bit freaked out by the Fire session and the music and this was music to counterbalance the sinister "bad vibes" of that day.

Let's think about it - if Brian had meant IWBA/FN to be part of Fire/The Elements, why would the session slate be "Friday Night" rather than "The Elements Part 2 Fire" as it had been "The Elements Part 1 Fire" the day before?  why would the session sheet list the song as "Friday Night" rather than the elements?  And why wouldn't anyone other than Carol (like Anderle, Vosse, Van Dyke, Carl, Derek Taylor) have any recall of this piece being part of Fire/The Elements?  In Vosse's P.R. piece on the session (reprinted in LLVS), there's no mention of this being part of The Elements. 

Now if you say this is part of I'm in Great Shape, I think there's a better argument to be made.

Yep. I'm quite happy to along with that. Always thought personally that IWBA/FN was gonna be part of the Barnyard suit Brian mentioned.

Though just a thought to remember. We have constantly been told by the participants and observers of the Smile recordings that things would get swapped around pretty often. So in some ways i would not hold too much stock in the naming of various sections and session tapes. If these claims of one section being swapped from on song to another, it could be that Smile was a lot more fluid in its construction than perhaps we give Brian credit for.

[buddhahat]

To my ears IWBA/FN sounds like it was made to follow Fire. They're the only two Smile tracks that I've put back to back that really feel like they were made to go together. It's something about the humour of IWBA, perfectly defusing the tension in Fire that works perfectly and seems exactly the sort of thing Brian would do at the time - a perfect counterpoint. Plus the fact those last base drum beats of Fire move just sound so right moving into IWBA. I'm inclined to believe Carol Kaye personally. Of course then there's the problem that Friday Night is a fade, so it sort of eliminates any other elements being included, unless when Fire, IWBA and FN were recorded this was the elements suite in its entirety, or maybe Vegetables was to precede Fire in the suite.

Didn't Domenic Priore argue in his post BWPS Smile book something about a session sheet listing the time of Fire as X (don't have it to hand right now) and when you place Fire and IWBA/FN together it perfectly matched this playing time?