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Author Topic: The Handwritten Smile Song Titles Note  (Read 20671 times)
sofonanm
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« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2009, 01:56:49 PM »

Fire is such a twisted goshdarn track.

every time i hear it (preferably a mono mix with the crackling fire sounds) i find it disturbing just how well they captured the feeling of a mind just totally losing it.

i mean, i really don't think it would be possible to capture that unless it was experienced by the one who conceived it. this is the only shocking track from Smile in my mind and i can't really blame brian for thinking it would be too much to unleash on the world. coming from a guy who wrote "good vibrations" and sent that out into the collective unconsciousness of the world... "Fire" is a strange twist in the way of things.

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The Song Of The Grange
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« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2009, 11:15:34 AM »

I agree with buddhahat.  I can't think of any other reason that I Wanna Be Around would have been sliced next to Friday Night's woodshop sounds of people building things.  We don't know exactly why Brian edited the two little pieces together, but a rebuilding scene seems like a very strong possibility.  It just seems if you reference a song with the lyrics "I wanna be around to pick up the pieces...." and then follow it right away with carpentry sounds, that it isn't hard to conclude that "the pieces" that need picking up are that of a building or some other wood structure.  And what then would have put the structure into pieces?  It could be yet another strange "plot" twist in the Americana theme, but it being meant to go after the fire is an argument with some traction.  Then add in the consecutive recording dates, and last but not least, Carol Kaye's (somewhat untrustable) testimony and the case gets stronger.

I do agree with those who suggest that IWBA/Friday Night sounds like it belongs in the Barnyard section.  I have mentioned in other posts that, despite the shaky evidence that IWBA/Friday Night was called "I'm In Great Shape" on the tape box (I believe it has been called a red herring), when you begin connecting a few things together it begins to look like I'm In Great Shape came after Fire.  I am not fully convinced, but there is a string of evidence to follow.

There is the whole thing mentioned above about the tape box saying "I'm In Great Shape" which may or may not have contained IWBA/Friday night.

IWBA "picking up pieces" directly followed by carpenter sounds.

The three pieces were presented together on BWPS.

Van Dyke has said that IIGS was once part of Barnyard.

Barnyard and Friday Night have been linked together off handedly, I believe by David Anderle in How Deep Is The Ocean.

IIGS has the lyric "I'm in the great shape of the agriculture" which strongly evokes the Earth element, as does the Barnyard piece in general.  "Eggs and grits and lickity split" evokes farm life, in my opinion.  (And if we are in the Earth element in IIGS with the great shape of the agriculture and a barnyard scene, then it is a very small jump into the farmer's fields for the opening section of Vegetables where "I'm gonna keep well my vegetables, cart off and sell my vegetables".  Also the physical comedy in the lyrics of Barnyard are echoed in the lyrics of Vegetables, which has a guy "kicking a ball and his shoe flying off."

Barnyard and IIGS were presented together on the H&V piano demo.

Barnyard and I'm In Great Shape and Mrs. Oleary's cow are all in the same key (H&V barnshine fade is also in this key by the way).

There is some connection between Barnyard, Great Shape, and You Are My Sunshine.  Sunshine ends in the same key as Barnyard and IIGS begin, which I have pointed out is the same key as the Barnshine fade, which is connected to Barnyard and Sunshine.

And finally (if you really want to get out there on a limb), all of this is linked to H&V.  Barnyard, Great Shape, Barnshine fade, and Sunshine were all connected in someway to the development of H&V.  Mrs. Oleary's Cow is  the same key and chord structure as Barnshine.  The only other song that fits into this key structure family is Wonderful, which I believe is also in Db.  This makes me think that the key and chord structure similarities between all these songs may be more than accidental.

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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2009, 11:31:26 AM »

The Song Of The Grange, in putting "IWBA/Workshop" after the fire, what would be your running order from, say, right before "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" right through to after "IWBA/Workshop"?
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juggler
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« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2009, 02:58:56 PM »

IIGS has the lyric "I'm in the great shape of the agriculture"

Just to nitpick... The "agriculture" is a BWPS thing.  The 1966 lyric was "I'm in the great shape of the open country."

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The Song Of The Grange
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« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2009, 03:09:23 PM »

The Song Of The Grange, in putting "IWBA/Workshop" after the fire, what would be your running order from, say, right before "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" right through to after "IWBA/Workshop"?

Yes.  Lately I have been doing something like this:

Old Master Painter/Sunshine (the ending strings perfectly set up MOC, they end in Db and Fire is (as best as I can tell) Ab-Db
Mrs Oleary's Cow (no fire intro, I think it wasn't meant to go before Fire, even the chimes version is in a weird key to go into Fire)
IWBA
Friday Night
I'm In Great Shape
Barnyard
Barnshine fade
Vegetables (the early version is in the key of F which works a bit better than the later E key, but I admit is a bit of a leap out of Barnshine.  I usually use a session out take from Barnshine with the plucking strings to ease the transition)
Do A Lot
Fade To Vegetables

(I split the Elements into 2 sections, Fire and Earth on side one in the "Lets Go Away For Awhile" slot, and Wind and Water on side 2 in the "Pet Sounds"slot.  Though sometimes I do a whole side of the Elements, beginning and ending with part of H&V and the H&V chants serving as link tracks throughout the side.  In this version I also use Do You Like Worms as a sort of "gate way to the Elements" because of its travel theme and Bicycle Rider's environmentalist mood--"see what you've done to the church of the American Indian".)  For the water section I always use the water chant sliced with a short version of Holidays and a bunch of water sounds dubbed over, many of which are taken from Brian's own recordings of water sounds.  Sometimes coming out of Wind Chimes I use the spooky howling part of George Fell Into His French Horn.  It sounds to me like wolves howling in the distant hills or something.  Put a little wind sound effect on there and you got something almost as spooky as Fire.


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The Song Of The Grange
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« Reply #30 on: April 05, 2009, 03:14:42 PM »

IIGS has the lyric "I'm in the great shape of the agriculture"

Just to nitpick... The "agriculture" is a BWPS thing.  The 1966 lyric was "I'm in the great shape of the open country."



The "agriculture" is a BWPS thing yes, but I have listened to the H&V demo recently with heavy EQ and compression and I now think he actually says "agriculture".  He goes into a deep range and it is very hard to hear but with a band-pass EQ and a ton of compression I hear "agriculture".  I thought it was "open country" for ever, but now I am less sure.  I could still be hearing it wrong.  Another thing going against me is  the Inside Pop reel descriptions, which mention an  "Open Country" song.  I am at the point now where I lean towards "agriculture" but consider both options inconclusive.  Brian definitely doesn't CLEARLY say one of the other.  I would love to be proved wrong and no for sure.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #31 on: April 05, 2009, 03:29:01 PM »

The Song Of The Grange, in putting "IWBA/Workshop" after the fire, what would be your running order from, say, right before "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" right through to after "IWBA/Workshop"?

Yes.  Lately I have been doing something like this:

Old Master Painter/Sunshine (the ending strings perfectly set up MOC, they end in Db and Fire is (as best as I can tell) Ab-Db
Mrs Oleary's Cow (no fire intro, I think it wasn't meant to go before Fire, even the chimes version is in a weird key to go into Fire)
IWBA
Friday Night
I'm In Great Shape
Barnyard
Barnshine fade
Vegetables (the early version is in the key of F which works a bit better than the later E key, but I admit is a bit of a leap out of Barnshine.  I usually use a session out take from Barnshine with the plucking strings to ease the transition)
Do A Lot
Fade To Vegetables

I'm with ya on putting "The Old Master Painter/You Are My Sunshine" right before "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" (I thought I was the only one doing that; most put it before "Cabinessence"); but I'm not sure about the barnyard stuff AFTER the fire. Theoretically, I have most of the animals perishing in the fire, and I don't go back to the barnyard after that. I've been using:

- "Barnyard" (going out to the barn, that's where the fire starts)
- "OMP/YAMS" (the sun going down; the cow's kicking over the lamp)
- "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" (the fire)
- "Water Chant/"Dada" (you gotta put the fire out)

I do like how you eliminated the bells and whistles from the fire intro; been thinking about doing that too. But, on BWPS, the bells and whistles are at the beginning - and that's the finished SMiLE..... police
« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 03:33:01 PM by Sheriff John Stone » Logged
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« Reply #32 on: April 05, 2009, 03:29:50 PM »

Or, maybe, much like everything else he was recording at the time, Brian didn't know exactly what he was gonna do with Friday Night/IWBA. It makes sense that since  the song features the sound of things being built, it would be a track that would come right after Fire. And perhaps for a few hours on the day it was recorded,  Brian was going to somehow make that a piece of music representing building after a fire. And then maybe after the session he went home, listened to it, listened to it again and again, and then decided not to use it at all.

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sofonanm
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« Reply #33 on: April 05, 2009, 04:01:08 PM »

He definitely says "agriculture" and not "open country" on the H&V piano demo.

I didn't even know those "open country" lyrics existed until reading this thread - and for years I've been listening to that demo, which I love, and I always heard "agriculture". Also worth noting - I haven't read the BWPS lyrics in the booklet before and never paid much attention to what Brian sung on the new version.

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juggler
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« Reply #34 on: April 05, 2009, 04:04:50 PM »

The "agriculture" is a BWPS thing yes, but I have listened to the H&V demo recently with heavy EQ and compression and I now think he actually says "agriculture".  He goes into a deep range and it is very hard to hear but with a band-pass EQ and a ton of compression I hear "agriculture".  I thought it was "open country" for ever, but now I am less sure.  I could still be hearing it wrong.  Another thing going against me is  the Inside Pop reel descriptions, which mention an  "Open Country" song.  I am at the point now where I lean towards "agriculture" but consider both options inconclusive.  Brian definitely doesn't CLEARLY say one of the other.  I would love to be proved wrong and no for sure.

To my ear, the first couple syllables are a bit unclear, but the word "country" IS clear.  When I first heard that demo, I thought that he was singing "upper country."  However, upon re-listening (obsessively), I now agree with the "open country" interpretation.   If you're hearing "-culture" in that 1966 demo, you might seek out the services of a good audiologist.

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Chris Brown
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« Reply #35 on: April 05, 2009, 04:41:37 PM »

The "agriculture" is a BWPS thing yes, but I have listened to the H&V demo recently with heavy EQ and compression and I now think he actually says "agriculture".  He goes into a deep range and it is very hard to hear but with a band-pass EQ and a ton of compression I hear "agriculture".  I thought it was "open country" for ever, but now I am less sure.  I could still be hearing it wrong.  Another thing going against me is  the Inside Pop reel descriptions, which mention an  "Open Country" song.  I am at the point now where I lean towards "agriculture" but consider both options inconclusive.  Brian definitely doesn't CLEARLY say one of the other.  I would love to be proved wrong and no for sure.

To my ear, the first couple syllables are a bit unclear, but the word "country" IS clear.  When I first heard that demo, I thought that he was singing "upper country."  However, upon re-listening (obsessively), I now agree with the "open country" interpretation.   If you're hearing "-culture" in that 1966 demo, you might seek out the services of a good audiologist.



I always thought he was singing "upper country" as well...I could buy "open country" too, but (and I admit I haven't heard it altered with audio tricks) I definitely have never heard "agriculture."  Maybe he and Van Dyke changed it for BWPS.  Remember, on the demo he doesn't sing "fresh clean air" either, but that's how it came out in 2004.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #36 on: April 05, 2009, 05:44:21 PM »

OK, admit it, how many of you just had your ear up against the speaker? Is it "country" or "agriculture"? Wink You know what, I think it actually is AGRICULTURE.
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« Reply #37 on: April 05, 2009, 06:34:17 PM »

It sounds like  agricuntree, which obviously can't be it. I too used to believe it was 'upper country', but now lean toward agriculture! As usual, no help at all...
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« Reply #38 on: April 05, 2009, 09:03:48 PM »

It's always sounded like "upper country" to me.  I can distinctly hear the "per" of the word "upper", and definitely the R syllable at the end.

Whatever it is, it's definitely not "agriculture".
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sofonanm
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« Reply #39 on: April 05, 2009, 09:48:45 PM »

I know I made that confident post up there but I actually haven't listened to it in quite a while. I'm going to find it now, listen a zillion times, and report back to base.

Hold tight folks. It will all be OK soon.
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Mr. Cohen
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« Reply #40 on: April 05, 2009, 09:58:23 PM »

Listening to that famous "H&V" demo again and I have to say that Smile might have sounded best overall on Brian's piano. The way he plays "Barnyard" is magnificent. It's a groove, better than it actually is on Smile. His playing really brings out the great rhythms behind the songs. Same for "Surf's Up". How about the piano + vocals take of the "Child is Father..." chorus? Some of Smile always sounded a little awkward in its fully produced state (for example, you could tell he had a lot of problems trying to make the "Bicycle Rider" chorus work with all the vocals, which lead to him stripping it down for the "H&V" single, which also very well could have inspired the direction he later took on Smiley Smile). Of course, other instrumental parts were sublime, so what can you do? Still, just Brian and the Boys around his piano with a few other instruments here and there could've brought us a great Smile, and one that would've been much more manageable for Brian. Instead, someone bought him an organ and we got Smiley Smile instead. Which is great little album, but it's still no Smile.

edit - Listening to more demos, I noticed on the early instrumental takes of "Wonderful" that the ukulele part in the background is where Brian got the "rock with me, henry" melody/rhythm from that is on the later Smile take.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #41 on: April 05, 2009, 10:01:46 PM »

I first heard it as 'upper country'... then when BWPS came up, it was one of those "oh !" moments, as it was obviously 'agriculture' once it was pointed out.
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sofonanm
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« Reply #42 on: April 05, 2009, 10:14:52 PM »

From my copy:

And uh, everyone was sort of, had it in their minds, and it was umm, I think it has a lot to do with, uh, repetition, I don't know, when something's around for a long time it gets really, uh, emblazoned in your mind, and uhm, becomes so visual that it really starts to happen... our next record's called "Heroes and Villains"... uhh hey Van let's do it ... I thought maybe uhh... ...

I think that uhh, that feeling... ... I can hear (the drum?) ... I think this is a beautiful feeling ...

I've been in this town so long that back in the city I've been taken as lost and gone and unknown for a long long time...

Fell in love years ago with an innocent girl from the Spanish & Indian home of the Heroes and Villains...

Once at night cotillion squared the fight/fine and she was right in the rain of the bullets that eventually brought her down...

But she's still dancing in the night unafraid of what a dude'll do in a town full of Heroes and Villains...

... and then it goes in/into a fudder/funner tone ...

da da, da da da da da, da da da da daaaaatththththhtdthdthdthdth...

Freshen[ed] air around my head, mornings tumble out of bed, eggs and grits and lickity split, look at me jump, I'm in the great shape of the [..................]

We're still working...

Anyway...

There's another section now...

Out in the barnyard, the chicken's do their number
Out in the farmyard, the cook is chopping lumber
Jump in the pig pen next time I'll take my shoes off
Hit the dirt, do two and a half, next time I'll leave my hat on
ba ba, ba ba ba, ba ba da da da da da, da da... haven't pitched this

Lot of animals are going back back back back back

LET'S HEAR THE ANIMALS!!!!!!!

[Van and Brian doing animal noises with absolute profession]

Do the, do the lamb thing, can you do the lamb? let's hear it...

[Van's self-conscious lambing] baaa baaa

Out in the barnyard...


There's more of Barnyard on my copy but it's irrelevant to this post.

I'm actually hearing a fairly distinct double P (pp) sound, as in the word "upper". So I think it is "Upper country" in that line. The word "agriculture" doesn't sound the same, and has no letters in it which would produce the distinctive "pp" sound which makes its surface in the recording even though the full word is difficult to hear/recognize.

btw, to appreciate this demo it has to be listened to at 50% its original speed, to appreciate its stoned beauty.  Smokin




« Last Edit: April 05, 2009, 10:18:42 PM by sofonanm » Logged
The Song Of The Grange
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« Reply #43 on: April 05, 2009, 10:32:36 PM »

I must admit I go back and forth between "open country", "upper country", and "agriculture".  His voice gets so low in his range and quiet at the same time that it is really rough to hear and mixes with the lower tones of the piano.  But when I mess with it in a band-pass EQ there is a fairly distinct "RRR" syllable at the very end of the phrase.  It could be either the "rrr" of "countrrrrry" or of "agriculturrrrrre".  When you band pass the demo to allow through only very high end frequencies you hear the percussive sounds of his hard consonants that confirm there are 4 syllables (both options have 4 syllables which doesn't help us at all).  The thing that points me toward "agriculture" is that Brian probably wouldn't have vocalized the "rrr" sound so much if the word were "country", I would tend to think he would hang on the "y" sound of "countryyyy".  When you sing the word "agriculture" you have no choice to vocalize the "rrr" sound at the end.

I would encourage anyone with the software or EQ gear needed to give it a try and see what they think.

And yes, I know, I have completely lost my mind!
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sofonanm
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« Reply #44 on: April 05, 2009, 10:55:30 PM »


And yes, I know, I have completely lost my mind!

I would be pleased to die in times like these - obsessively listening dozens of times to a few seconds of music to determine a word.

 Embarrassed
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juggler
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« Reply #45 on: April 05, 2009, 11:16:52 PM »

I first heard it as 'upper country'... then when BWPS came up, it was one of those "oh !" moments, as it was obviously 'agriculture' once it was pointed out.

Come on, Andrew, crank up the volume and listen to it again.  As much as we might like to believe that "agriculture" isn't a revision, it just isn't in the '66 demo.  My hearing is pretty damned good, and, while the first couple syllables are indeed garbled (open? upper?), the last two ("cunnn-trryyyy") are plain as day,.   If you guys are really and truly hearing that as "cul-ture," can I have some of what you're smoking?  Smokin
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« Reply #46 on: April 05, 2009, 11:52:01 PM »

Out in the barnyard, the chicken's do their number
Out in the farmyard, the cook is chopping lumber
Jump in the pig pen next time I'll take my shoes off
Hit the dirt, do two and a half, next time I'll leave my hat on
ba ba, ba ba ba, ba ba da da da da da, da da... haven't pitched this

Lot of animals are going back back back back back

LET'S HEAR THE ANIMALS!!!!!!!

[Van and Brian doing animal noises with absolute profession]

Do the, do the lamb thing, can you do the lamb? let's hear it...

[Van's self-conscious lambing] baaa baaa

Out in the barnyard... [/i]






May I add something?

If I remember correctly, are there not lyrical differences between original Smile lyrics and those on BWPS... ?

For example, take the original lyrics quoted above:- But on BWPS, (the words spoken/sung as opposed to those being written in the Cd booklet), isn't 'barnyard' said twice, the second time inplace of 'farmyard'?

Isn't 'farmyard' completely omitted?

May be it was originally 'upper/open country' but later for BWPS was presented as 'agriculture'...?

But whatever the words are on BWPS, my view is that that does not mean that they were the original lyrics...
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« Reply #47 on: April 06, 2009, 08:25:29 AM »

Quick thing sofonanm, at the end of Heroes on the demo, Brian is saying flutter tone.  And at the end of Barnyard, I think he's saying "haven't finished this."

There were definitely small lyrical changes on BWPS...remember the "Cantina" section, how Brian now sings "Margarita keeps the spirit high" as opposed to "margaritas keep the spirit high."  The omission of "farmyard" is another obvious one.  So even though Brian sang "agriculture" on BWPS, he could indeed have been singing "upper country" or "open country" on the Heroes demo and just simply changed it later on.
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« Reply #48 on: April 06, 2009, 10:19:14 AM »

Just listened again with a few widgets plugged in and...

... could be either.

That said (and this is OT), listening to "Soulful Old Man Sunshine" with a surround doohickey dialled in makes it VERY obvious how much of a patchwork quilt Carl's lead is. Damn fine choon, mind. And such vocal gymnastics...
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sofonanm
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« Reply #49 on: April 06, 2009, 10:38:42 AM »

Quick thing sofonanm, at the end of Heroes on the demo, Brian is saying flutter tone.  And at the end of Barnyard, I think he's saying "haven't finished this."


Haha, I just could not bring to mind what word he was saying in the first case. That, of course, makes perfect sense. Thanks.

So does the Barnyard bit - and it also brings something else to this discussion - if they hadn't finished working on a short and relatively simple song like Barnyard, then can we accurately say that any lyrics used at the time were the final, unchangeable ones? It's been mentioned in this thread that the 'original' lyrics to I'm In Great Shape were changed on BWPS - maybe so, but this snippet on the demo is all we have to go on for original lyrics, right? There's only the backing track from the sessions where Van's in the studio.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2009, 10:42:39 AM by sofonanm » Logged
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