Brian's lyrical partners?

[TdHabib]

Okay, so I thought it would be interesting to see who people think Brian's best lyricists were, in order. How about the top three? Here are mine:

1. Van Dyke Parks
2. Mike Love
3. Tony Asher

Also, explain your choices. I'll explain mine soon...

[KokoMoses]

1. Mike Love - established what the Beach Boys were all about and along with Brian created the California mythos as we know and love it!!!!

2. Gary Usher - same as the above to a slightly lesser extent.

3. Tony Asher - Pet Sounds!!!! Need I say more?

[The Heartical Don]

1. Van Dyke Parks
2. Tony Asher
3. Mike Love

Rank order: VDP is in a league of his own. Free-form poetry with so many allusions and double-entendres... and yet his subject matter is always clear for everyone to hear. Example: 'Dreams Are Still Born In Hollywood'. Two entirely different meanings, both true all the same.

Tony Asher wrote more down-to-earth lyrics for Pet Sounds but expressed the feelings of the songs in a sublime way. No one could have done it better at that point in time. Example: 'That's Not Me'.

Mike Love was, um, a capable writer of song lines.

[KokoMoses]

Oh, come on!

We'd never have heard of Van Dyke Parks or Tony Asher if it weren't for Mike Love because we'd never have heard of The Beach Boys if there were no Mike Love!

So, the guy who wrote Warmth Of The Sun is merely capable?

[GLarson432]

I agree with you Erikdavid5000 -- Just like Murry pushing through and pushing down doors, without Mike completing the picture in a critically inmportant area would the band have made it? 

Yes, Brian had the BB's to work with.  But Brian on his own, with other artists during his musical peak when he was exploding with creativity, didn't make it.  I think the band would have found success, they were too good not to, but Mike's lyrics were extremely important early on.

[Chris Brown]

Oh, come on!

We'd never have heard of Van Dyke Parks or Tony Asher if it weren't for Mike Love because we'd never have heard of The Beach Boys if there were no Mike Love!

So, the guy who wrote Warmth Of The Sun is merely capable?

Very true, but that wasn't really the question.  Mike did indeed write some fantastic lyrics for/with Brian.  But like others above, I would rank Van Dyke above him, just for the fact that Van Dyke pushed Brian to do some of his best musical work, and wrote lyrics that are still incredible today.  I love "Warmth of the Sun," but lyrically, songs like "Surf's Up" and "Wonderful" put it to shame, in my opinion.

Tony Asher I would put about on par with Mike.  Tough call there for me.

[The Heartical Don]

Oh, come on!

We'd never have heard of Van Dyke Parks or Tony Asher if it weren't for Mike Love because we'd never have heard of The Beach Boys if there were no Mike Love!

So, the guy who wrote Warmth Of The Sun is merely capable?

Very true, but that wasn't really the question.  Mike did indeed write some fantastic lyrics for/with Brian.  But like others above, I would rank Van Dyke above him, just for the fact that Van Dyke pushed Brian to do some of his best musical work, and wrote lyrics that are still incredible today.  I love "Warmth of the Sun," but lyrically, songs like "Surf's Up" and "Wonderful" put it to shame, in my opinion.

Tony Asher I would put about on par with Mike.  Tough call there for me.

Tks for that. I read the question as: who is/was the best lyricist (in terms of art), and not as: who pushed Brian into his activities.

[Alex]

1. Van Dyke Parks
2. Tony Asher
3. Andy Paley
4. Gary Usher
5. Roger Christian
6. Bob Norberg
7. Jack Reiley
8. Scott Bennett
9. Tandyn Almer
10. Russ Titleman
11. Mike Love
12. Joe Thomas
13. Eugene Landy
14. Alexandra Morgan

[urbanite]

Mike wrote great lyrics but regressed as he got older.  Big Sur is a real gem.

[hypehat]

VDP, Asher, and Usher = $0.02

[the captain]

If all I'm addressing is whose words do I like best with the music with which they're paired (not who started it off, who had hits, who led to whatever else, who kept Brian in a drugged stupor and tried to write himself in to the will, who had the nicest beard, whose baseball caps looked good when he went shirtless but with a vest, etc.), I'd probably say 1) VDP, 2) Tony Asher, 3) Mike Love.

[Sheriff John Stone]

From everything I've read about him, and, including that recent Holland documentary which I saw, I don't really like Jack Reiley. But, the funny thing is, I like every song he and Brian were involved with. I would've loved a solo album from Brian from that period 1971-73; he was very creative during that time.

[KokoMoses]

If all I'm addressing is whose words do I like best with the music with which they're paired (not who started it off, who had hits, who led to whatever else, who kept Brian in a drugged stupor and tried to write himself in to the will, who had the nicest beard, whose baseball caps looked good when he went shirtless but with a vest, etc.), I'd probably say 1) VDP, 2) Tony Asher, 3) Mike Love.

For the record, I understood the question perfectly and answered it honestly!

I think Mike is the best lyrical partner Brian has ever had. I'm not going to sit here and worry about my "hipness" quota and pretend to hate anything non-esoteric, non-heavily symbolic that came from the pen of Mike or anyone else. I love early middle and late period Beach Boys as much as I love Pet Sounds/Smile. If this makes me uncool..... Fine! What the hell are any of us doing spending pecious hours on a Beach Boys message board if such things really matter? ...

I choose not to judge Mike on Summer Of Love alone, just as I won't judge Brian on In My Car alone. Mike is all over the Beach Boys and gave us so many great songs as well as the occasional dud, but he's certainly not alone in that. And if I think he's the best, to declare him the first/most important/most enduring, it's only to reinforce my opinion, no to make excuses for it.

[the captain]

I was joking with the general comments on different people interpreting the question differently. As for hipness, well, I certainly don't worry about that. If I did, I wouldn't choose VDP as my favorite: he's too obviously the "hip" choice, and choosing to work to be hip clearly is the best recipe for failing at hipness. (It's all about the ironic surprise. The hipster answer MIGHT be Mike Love, actually.) I'm not criticizing anyone's choices, and obviously, Love was third on my list. I love a lot of their songs. But I won't pretend that my favorites aren't.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Mike wrote great lyrics but regressed as he got older.

So did the music he was writing lyrics for.

[KokoMoses]

I was joking with the general comments on different people interpreting the question differently. As for hipness, well, I certainly don't worry about that. If I did, I wouldn't choose VDP as my favorite: he's too obviously the "hip" choice, and choosing to work to be hip clearly is the best recipe for failing at hipness. (It's all about the ironic surprise. The hipster answer MIGHT be Mike Love, actually.) I'm not criticizing anyone's choices, and obviously, Love was third on my list. I love a lot of their songs. But I won't pretend that my favorites aren't.

I think we're both wrong in that hipeness doesn't even exist simply because, to be "hip", it all depends on the opinion of others. You can't be hip on an island!

[southbay]

1. Mike Love (despite the negatives, they just "clicked" too many times to ignore)
2. Tony Asher (one AMAZING album; GOK alone might put him on the list)
3. VDP (limited, yet brilliant, work spanning 30+ years)

[the captain]

You can't be hip on an island!

That's where you're very wrong, and I've got the videotape to prove it. 

[KokoMoses]

let's see it! 

[the captain]

Busted in another lie... 

[Aegir]

The songs Jack Rieley wrote with Carl were great. But the ones he wrote with Brian were horrible. Mess of Help to Stand Alone and the end of Funky Pretty are so dumb.

My top five in no particular order are Mike Love, Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, Gary Usher, and Roger Christian.

[MBE]

From everything I've read about him, and, including that recent Holland documentary which I saw, I don't really like Jack Reiley. But, the funny thing is, I like every song he and Brian were involved with. I would've loved a solo album from Brian from that period 1971-73; he was very creative during that time.

Hey we agree on this one!
Anyways Alex listed the main co-writers and I will re-order his list to my taste plus add the other Beach Boys and Kalinich as they wrote with him too. BTW I think Dennis is the best song writer on this list but he didn't write too much with Brian.

Mike Love
Tony Asher
Van Dyke Parks
Roger Christian
Gary Usher
Jack Reiley
Jan Berry (Usually they had one or more partners but the songs Brian wrote with Jan are great)
Carl
Al
Andy Paley
Scott Bennett
Steve Kalinich
Dennis
Russ Titleman
Bob Norberg
Bruce
Diane
Tandyn Almer
Joe Thomas
Alexandra Morgan
Eugene Landy
 
Except for the last three they all were pretty good.

[the captain]

The songs Jack Rieley wrote with Carl were great. But the ones he wrote with Brian were horrible. Mess of Help to Stand Alone and the end of Funky Pretty are so dumb.

I really like Mess of Help. And Funky Pretty's lyrics, while I do think they're dumb, are in that dumb-but-cool territory that Mike Love is the master of. Yeah, it's silly words and ideas and catch phrases of the times, boring hippie sh*t ... but it's cool anyway. If you're cosmically conscious you'll see, Pisces lady, indeed.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Brian Wilson & Jack Rieley - So Tough, Bruce

1. Marcella
2. Funky Pretty
3. My Solution
4. You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone
5. A Day In The Life Of A Tree
6. Sail On Sailor
7. Til I Die
8. Sweet Mountain
9. Mt. Vernon & Fairway (A Fairy Tale)

Produced by Brian Wilson, Carl Wilson, & David Sandler

[Aegir]

And Funky Pretty's lyrics, while I do think they're dumb, are in that dumb-but-cool territory that Mike Love is the master of. Yeah, it's silly words and ideas and catch phrases of the times, boring hippie merda ... but it's cool anyway. If you're cosmically conscious you'll see, Pisces lady, indeed.

Oh, no, you see, I like the lyrics Mike wrote. But Jack wrote the stupid ones in the second-to-last section of the song, the queen in Copenhagee, the cream of gay Parisee, et cetera.