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Author Topic: Ed Carter's contributions to Beach Boys records, late 60s early 70s  (Read 8839 times)
aeijtzsche
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« on: February 11, 2006, 02:45:37 PM »

Does anybody know if Ed played on much else besides "Bluebirds" in that era?  More specifically, did he make any contributions on Sunflower or Surf's Up, that anybody is aware of?
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Jason Penick
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« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2006, 02:58:52 PM »

lead guitar on "Student Demonstration Time", if I recall correctly.
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« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2006, 03:48:18 PM »

Lead on San Miguel.
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c-man
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« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2006, 05:15:58 PM »

The lead on "Student Demonstration Time" was actually Carl.

Eddie C. played acoustic & electric wah-wah guitars on "Disney Girls", and probably lead
guitar on "California Slide", or whatever the actual title is.  The track sheets denote
"Deasy" (guitarist Mike Deasy) and "Eddie".

C-Man
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Jason Penick
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« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2006, 05:30:15 PM »

The lead on "Student Demonstration Time" was actually Carl

Didn't Ed Carter play it live though, or was that Carl as well?
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« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2006, 09:03:52 PM »

The lead on "Student Demonstration Time" was actually Carl

Didn't Ed Carter play it live though, or was that Carl as well?

I believe that was Carl, aided by Blondie when he joined up.
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Jeff Mason
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« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2006, 09:12:12 PM »

Definitely Carl on SDT.  That is TOTALLY Carl's playing style.  If you know what to listen for, it is very distinctive.  You can hear it on It's About Time too.  Listen to his lead playing live if you can, on American Band or Knebworth.  It is consistent.

Wouldn't Ed have done most of the bass on the Sunflower-era tracks?  I have always assumed that, esp on songs like Slip On Through.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #7 on: February 12, 2006, 12:25:38 AM »

Thanks guys, good stuff so far.

Yeah, I'm wondering about bass primarily, myself.  There are a lot of tracks that don't sound like Carl or Al on bass, but seem to lack documentation.  Ray Pohlman was still playing a bit of bass for Sunflower, but where he's not, I generally have no idea, on Surf's Up is a total cloudy haze for me.

C-man, since we're sort of close to this subject anyway, have you ever sorted out the contract for "This Whole World", mainly who John Conrad is, and what David Cohen could possibly have two doubles for?
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« Reply #8 on: February 12, 2006, 06:32:56 AM »

Thanks guys, good stuff so far.

Yeah, I'm wondering about bass primarily, myself.  There are a lot of tracks that don't sound like Carl or Al on bass, but seem to lack documentation.  Ray Pohlman was still playing a bit of bass for Sunflower, but where he's not, I generally have no idea, on Surf's Up is a total cloudy haze for me.

C-man, since we're sort of close to this subject anyway, have you ever sorted out the contract for "This Whole World", mainly who John Conrad is, and what David Cohen could possibly have two doubles for?

I don't think Eddie Carter was used for bass, or at least not much, in the studio in those days.  Most of the "Sunflower" era seems to be pros like Joe Osborn ("Got To Know The Woman") and Ray Pohlman ("This Whole World", "Tears in the Morning") on bass, with Brian ("Add Some Music" and "Susie"), Carl ("Got To Know The Woman"...which means either he replaced Joe Osborn's track, or enhanced it), and probably Daryl ("It's About Time").  "Slip On Though" is so funky, it's probably someone with experience playing soul sessions. 

For "Surf's Up". much of it is Moog synth bass (Bruce on "Disney Girls". Brian on "Til I Die", probably Desper on "Day in the Life of a Tree" and the second section of "Surf's Up"), with Daryl playing bass guitar on "Don't Go Near The Water" and "Student Demo Time", and Carl playing it on "Long Promised Road" and "Feel Flows".  Alan is likely playing bass on "Take A Load" and "Welfare Song", and Bruce has said he would sometimes play a bass part to patch up what someone else had started.

I've yet to determine who John Conrad is, or what his contribution to "This Whole World" was. 
For Cohen, he evidently played a basic guitar part and two overdubs, which were either erased and recorded over, or blended with other tracks in a reduction mix. 

C-Man



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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #9 on: February 12, 2006, 09:17:28 AM »

Quote
I don't think Eddie Carter was used for bass, or at least not much, in the studio in those days.  Most of the "Sunflower" era seems to be pros like Joe Osborn ("Got To Know The Woman") and Ray Pohlman ("This Whole World", "Tears in the Morning") on bass, with Brian ("Add Some Music" and "Susie"), Carl ("Got To Know The Woman"...which means either he replaced Joe Osborn's track, or enhanced it), and probably Daryl ("It's About Time").  "Slip On Though" is so funky, it's probably someone with experience playing soul sessions.

Your virtuosity is unmatched, Craig.  Joe Osborn!?  Really?  Is that anecdotal or documented.  I didn't know he ever played on a Beach Boys session.  I also wasn't particularly aware that Daryl played anything other than keyboard-based instruments (including vibes) for the boys on record.

Quote
For "Surf's Up". much of it is Moog synth bass (Bruce on "Disney Girls". Brian on "Til I Die"

It's definitely not Moog bass on 'Til I Die, despite what Steve says.  You can't quite get that kind of pick attack and string vibration decay on a modular synth.  Whoever played bass on 'Til I Die was not a Beach Boy, I would bet a lot on that.

Quote
probably Desper on "Day in the Life of a Tree" and the second section of "Surf's Up"), with Daryl playing bass guitar on "Don't Go Near The Water" and "Student Demo Time", and Carl playing it on "Long Promised Road" and "Feel Flows".  Alan is likely playing bass on "Take A Load" and "Welfare Song", and Bruce has said he would sometimes play a bass part to patch up what someone else had started.

Bruce certainly has downplayed his bass contributions, hasn't he?  I mean, he's denied playing bass on a lot of things where it's clear he is, particularly Party!

Quote
I've yet to determine who John Conrad is, or what his contribution to "This Whole World" was.
For Cohen, he evidently played a basic guitar part and two overdubs, which were either erased and recorded over, or blended with other tracks in a reduction mix.


Very confusing.  Gram Parsons used a bass played named John Conrad for some of his sessions in Hollywood, but it doesn't sound to me like two basses were used.  The guitar thing is completely strange, becase Jerry Cole was also present, and I only hear two guitar parts, one playing the rhythm power chords and the other string-skipping fills and such, and it's notated as such on the track sheet, just two guitars on the initial 8-track session.
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« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2006, 11:26:22 AM »

[Joe Osborn!?  Really?  Is that anecdotal or documented.  I didn't know he ever played on a Beach Boys session. 

Documented.  Well, at least a "J. Osborn" having played on the session is.  He also played two doubles, none of which are ID'd.  This was Sunset Sound, 2/13/69.  But, that doesn't mean his work survived til the end.  If  I recall correctly without looking,  Badman says there were organ & fuzz guitar overdubs done at Sunset, which I don't hear on the finished record, and Desper says the song was in production for several months before being finished, meaning lots of things could have been added and subtracted.

Quote
For "Surf's Up". much of it is Moog synth bass (Bruce on "Disney Girls". Brian on "Til I Die"

It's definitely not Moog bass on 'Til I Die, despite what Steve says.  You can't quite get that kind of pick attack and string vibration decay on a modular synth.  Whoever played bass on 'Til I Die was not a Beach Boy, I would bet a lot on that.

I've struggled with that, too (Moog vs. bass guitar on that track).  To me, at different times, it sounds like both.  And if it is in fact bass guitar, it's probably Daryl Dragon.

C-Man
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2006, 11:36:23 AM »

The tracksheet that Alan graciously provided for 'Til I Die says "Bass."  Maybe we can get him over here to clear up if tracks with obvious Moog bass were notated as "Moog" "Moog Bass" or "Bass" or what...

I bet he could clear up what's all on the final 16-track master for GtKtW too, if there's any unused fuzz bass.

I'll say it again, what a fascinating period of time!
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2006, 11:37:41 AM »

Also, about Daryl playing bass, has he spoken about that in any interviews that are easily obtainable on the 'net?  I'd like to explore this more.
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« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2006, 12:26:12 PM »

Also, about Daryl playing bass, has he spoken about that in any interviews that are easily obtainable on the 'net?  I'd like to explore this more.

I'll try to think and let you know...in the meantime, there IS a photo of Daryl playing bass in the studio...he's sitting in a chair, next to Carl who's also sitting in a chair, playing guitar.  Neither has headphones on, and they look really relaxed, so they may not have been tracking at the moment, but
they're obviously jamming.  It was in Part Two of that 1971 Rolling Stone story.

C-Man
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2006, 12:31:00 PM »

Neat.  I'll keep my eye out for that.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2006, 12:31:46 PM »

But I do have to ask, or I'll lay awake tonight wondering:  Fender Precision Bass, Daryl's playing?
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« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2006, 12:39:41 PM »

But I do have to ask, or I'll lay awake tonight wondering:  Fender Precision Bass, Daryl's playing?

Either that, or a Jazz bass.  Hard to tell, 'cause his knee and right hand partially obscure it.
Looks to be white.  Carl's playing a 6-string Gibson.  Both of them are sitting, with one leg crossed on the other knee, and both have shades on.    They look the epitome of COOL.

C-Man
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2006, 12:43:25 PM »

Hmm, well, I guess you saved me a few hours of sleep.  Still, the lingering doubt may be a pea to my princess...
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2006, 01:01:42 PM »

OK, so has anybody determined the exact "Beach Boys Band" line-up that re-cut Cotton Fields at Sunset?
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Jason
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« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2006, 01:02:25 PM »

Wasn't it the BBs augmented with Dennis Dragon, Daryl Dragon, and Red Rhodes?
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2006, 01:19:23 PM »

You tell me.  Unless Dennis, Carl, and Brian took up trumpets and saxes, there have to be a few more ladies or gents than just those guys.
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Jason
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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2006, 01:20:16 PM »

I'm assuming the regular band was the BBs with Dennis D., Daryl D., and Red Rhodes. The overdubs, I have no idea.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2006, 01:24:57 PM »

Assuming it wasn't all cut live.  I mean, there's obviously overdubs, but there's just a lot of instrumentation, I hear possibly three acoustic guitars, Red, another electric guitar, Drums, percussion, piano, organ, two basses (Fender plus String, I think, but could be two Fenders), then a large horn section, probably three trumpets and I'd wager at least 5 saxes.
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Jason
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« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2006, 01:26:15 PM »

Well, that's probably a question for Alan.
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aeijtzsche
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« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2006, 01:34:27 PM »

I think I already have too many questions in to that poor, generous man.  I might scare him away if I keep asking about the contents of track sheets. 
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