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Author Topic: Smiley Smile was a joke.  (Read 14922 times)
sockittome
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« Reply #50 on: September 11, 2008, 05:14:45 PM »

Must've been the hash then because I really can't see some of those weird vocals from Wind Chimes being casually sung at some family gathering.  I think Murray would've beaten all of them for getting into the booze!  Wink
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Boiled Egg
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« Reply #51 on: September 12, 2008, 12:51:12 AM »

Here's something that makes me a bit undecided on the "joke vs. really gave it an honest try" argument: according to history (or legend, as it may be), Brian had a difficult time getting the Boys on board with the SMiLE material (especially Mike, who wanted to keep the old hit formula).  So, what made them so cooperative on Smiley?  I mean, they do seem to be enjoying themselves on that one; what changed their minds?

this may be the single most intriguing bb question ever asked.

do we have any experts in the shadows that might lend a synapse?  is agd on the bush telegraph?
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The infamous Baldwin Organ
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« Reply #52 on: September 12, 2008, 12:44:00 PM »

For me, Smiley Smile was an artistic step forward (although in an unforseen direction), and was an interesting comprimise from Capitol advertising songs with 'the good vibrations sound', and Brian's personal leanings.

As a producer, I can tell the methods that Brian was using in making the SS were in many ways similar to the work he did on Good Vibrations. Listen again to all of the different 'sections' of an individual song; that's modular recording at work. I think Brian was in full control of the sessions; the key difference between SMiLE and SS was that Smiley Smile was a 'band' album.

I love this record, but the biggest problem I find with it is it's Mono presentation, which hides many of the complex technique used within.
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Thunderfingers75
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« Reply #53 on: September 12, 2008, 01:00:08 PM »

It's a fun album, too me it sounds like the guys blowing off some steam after all the Smile bullshit. I had one of the guys from my band over last week and he asked to hear it. We paticularly enjoyed it after a little  Smokin
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #54 on: September 12, 2008, 02:15:04 PM »

So, what made them so cooperative on Smiley?  I mean, they do seem to be enjoying themselves on that one; what changed their minds?

this may be the single most intriguing bb question ever asked.[/quote]

I have a question or two for you (and/or others) based on the above questions.

What made them so cooperative on Smiley Smile? Were they UNCOOPERATIVE on the SMiLE sessions? I thought the guys did a tremendous job on their vocals.

What changed their minds? Why do you assume their minds were changed? SPECIFICALLY, what SMiLE songs do you think the guys didn't like that they had to have their minds changed? Mike admitted to not liking SOME of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics, but why do you think there was a change in attitude from May 1967 to June 1967?
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Fun Is In
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« Reply #55 on: September 12, 2008, 02:20:34 PM »

Maybe they were desperate for product and income and went along with whatever Brian wanted to do.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #56 on: September 12, 2008, 02:26:09 PM »

Maybe they were desperate for product and income and went along with whatever Brian wanted to do.

They were always desperate for income and they always went along with whatever Brian wanted to do, until after The Beach Boys Love You. That was the album/straw that broke the camel's back...
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Surfer Joe
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« Reply #57 on: September 12, 2008, 02:45:02 PM »

So, what made them so cooperative on Smiley?  I mean, they do seem to be enjoying themselves on that one; what changed their minds?

I don't know, but whatever it was also caused them to giggle uncontrollably throughout the sessions and lie around on the floor.
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sockittome
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« Reply #58 on: September 12, 2008, 05:29:11 PM »

So, what made them so cooperative on Smiley?  I mean, they do seem to be enjoying themselves on that one; what changed their minds?

this may be the single most intriguing bb question ever asked.

I have a question or two for you (and/or others) based on the above questions.

What made them so cooperative on Smiley Smile? Were they UNCOOPERATIVE on the SMiLE sessions? I thought the guys did a tremendous job on their vocals.

What changed their minds? Why do you assume their minds were changed? SPECIFICALLY, what SMiLE songs do you think the guys didn't like that they had to have their minds changed? Mike admitted to not liking SOME of Van Dyke Parks' lyrics, but why do you think there was a change in attitude from May 1967 to June 1967?
[/quote]

I'm glad you asked.  This is making for some very good discussion.

The "cooperative" aspect on the part of the band is, of course, an assumption on my part.  Listen to Mike's part in "She's Going Bald".  It's hard for me to believe that just a few months before, he had a hissy fit over those legendary "Cabinessence" lyrics.   

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Beach Bum
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« Reply #59 on: September 12, 2008, 10:17:18 PM »

These are all great points and great reading. I think there was more of an effort made this time around, because there was a lot of fear at the time I believe. This was an in-between time for the band. That is, after the non-stop success that Brian had led them to (which was essentially, gone forever by then -- even if they didn't yet know it) and prior to the other individuals in the band blossoming into writers/producers and taking charge of the band at various points.

I think they knew that Brian was in trouble. And if Brian was in trouble, they probably thought they were all in trouble. The music on the radio had changed, and it was essentially outside of their realm. As everyone knows, I am not a fan of the album (although I respect those who are), and I think that it was a desperate attempt to capitalize on the success of Good Vibrations.

Just my .02....
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #60 on: September 13, 2008, 04:08:46 AM »

So, what made them so cooperative on Smiley?  I mean, they do seem to be enjoying themselves on that one; what changed their minds?

I don't know, but whatever it was also caused them to giggle uncontrollably throughout the sessions and lie around on the floor.

Two words for you: Swedish Frog. Smile era.
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Surfer Joe
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« Reply #61 on: September 13, 2008, 05:53:04 AM »

Straining my memory here- is that not one of the specific sessions that was supposed to have pissed the band off- animal noises, etc.?

Also, I think it's been pretty well put to bed that the Beach Boys did not actually refuse cooperation during the SMiLE sessions, other than (at most) a couple of lyric blow-ups from Mike, so we're only talking about enthusiasm level, as far as I can follow. My understanding has always been that the environment was a great deal different for Smiley.

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james666
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« Reply #62 on: September 13, 2008, 07:01:02 AM »

The Sea Of Tunes 18 bootleg shows Smiley Smiley in a very different light.  The piano arrangements and vocals are as beautiful as anything on Smile when they're allowed to breath in stereo and not smothered in that cloying organ sound.  "Evil twin" is exactly the relationship between the bubbly Smile arrangement of Wind Chimes and the forlorn cannabis psychosis atmosphere of its Smiley counterpart.  It perfectly captures the feeling of early autumn when the nights are getting cold, the wasps are feeding on the fallen apples and you're wondering where the time went.  If there was an act of sabotage it was in the final mono mix.
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Dancing Bear
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« Reply #63 on: September 13, 2008, 08:06:41 AM »

Straining my memory here- is that not one of the specific sessions that was supposed to have pissed the band off- animal noises, etc.?

It pissed Alan Jardine off, we don't know about the others.

Also, I think it's been pretty well put to bed that the Beach Boys did not actually refuse cooperation during the SMiLE sessions, other than (at most) a couple of lyric blow-ups from Mike, so we're only talking about enthusiasm level, as far as I can follow. My understanding has always been that the environment was a great deal different for Smiley.

I guess Brian set the pace for the proceedings, everyone went along with the plan and it was done. Quickly. "Let's move on". But how do we know if the environment was different than for the last 5 or 10 months? We don't.

I'll be fair and conced that Mike had more (lyrical and maybe musical) imput in two tracks (SGB and GH) than he had in anything released by the band since 1965. But do we know if he was glad about how the album was produced? How it sounded in the end? And does it affect whatever insatisfaction Carl may have had about Smile? The understanding that the band was in any way more comfortable about Smiley Smile than Smile came from ancient beliefs that they 'took over' after the demise of Smile. Thank God for the SOTs.  Smiley
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #64 on: September 13, 2008, 08:16:40 AM »

Smiley Smile wasn't a joke, although it was purposely "jokey" and druggy humor was a part of the humor incorporated into the album.  Smiley was a quicky stopgap album to give Brian breathing room to contemplate his next step/project, simple as that.  Look at Brian's past record - when the record company was breathing down his neck, he would turn to either a live album (Concert, then the unreleased Chicago, Michigan, and Le'd in Hawaii albums) OR something else he could churn out quick to give him time to work on songs and production for his next magnum opus.  Smiley Smile is essentially "Beach Boys Party" in the home studio - just the boys in the studio, laughing and joking, banging out minimalist productions.  Some songs are serious, some are humorous.  Concert and Beach Boys Party were amongst the biggest selling albums the Beach Boys produced, so you can see why Brian would think Capitol would be pleased with something similar and it would satisfy Mike and the suits so Brian could continue to pursue his muse.  Of course the singles, which don't really fit the vibe of the rest of the album, had to be included, which made the album more confusing - but think if the Lei'd in Hawaii versions of Heroes and Vibrations were on there instead of the single versions, the album would have been more coherent and the intent more obvious.

As we all know, there was serious consideration that after Smiley was released as a stopgap, Smile would still be released as a ten track album - again showing that Smiley was just buying time to finish the next "real album."  Unfortunately Brian could not face going back to Smile, and so he continued to buy time with the "chill out" Wild Honey and attempted a live album as well.  He did get back on track with Friends, but after the 68 nervous breakdown never really "took charge" of an album after that.
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Cam Mott
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« Reply #65 on: September 14, 2008, 10:06:40 AM »

To me all of the session tapes we have heard where unfiltered interaction between the band is captured during the SMiLE/Smiley period the band is very loose and fun and cooperative, the only uptightness comes from Brian about whether the results are good enough.  The Boys seem to keep their mouths shut and do as told [with a little back talk from Carl seldom].
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« Reply #66 on: September 14, 2008, 10:23:20 AM »

The question that's always intrigued me about this album is this: Capitol were hurting real bad for a new album... but were they hurting so bad that they were able to listen to Smiley Smile and say "yeah, OK, we'll release that". Oh to be a fly on Voyle Gilmore's wall - that must have been one of the biggest WTF moments of all time.
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Bicyclerider
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« Reply #67 on: September 14, 2008, 11:00:33 AM »

I think Capitol must have viewed Smiley as an album cash in on the success of Good Vibrations and Heroes (or what they hoped would be the success of Heroes) - a throwback to the days when two hit singles would be on an album, and the rest filler.  They figured GV and Heroes would sell the album - but too much time had passed since GV was a hit (6 months) and Heroes never took off the way they hoped.

I can only imagine what the suits were thinking listenng to Vegetables!
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the captain
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« Reply #68 on: September 14, 2008, 11:12:25 AM »

I can only imagine what the suits were thinking listenng to Vegetables!
They probably liked it more than Wonderful and Wind Chimes. At least Vegetables was singable, had a nice rhythm and seemed like silly fun. Wonderful and Wind Chimes just must have creeped them out.
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« Reply #69 on: September 14, 2008, 11:38:31 AM »

I was gonna say most of what Bicyclerider and Luther said....Not only was Smiley Smile home for the two singles, "Good Vibrations" and "Heroes And Villains", but also "Gettin' Hungry", and possibly, if needed, a "Vegetables" single. Capitol probably viewed the "weird" tracks as newer versions of "I'm Bugged At My Old Man" or "Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson".

Wasn't the Best Of The Beach Boys out around that time also, so they could "cash in" on that. I don't think Capitol was as bold or involved in Brian's day to day progress as much as Reprise later was, who was rejecting Beach Boys' albums left and right. Capitol probably didn't have a Walter Yetnikoff-type character to present a "I think I've been fu--ed" moment. Capitol Records just took a deep breath, ate the album, and waited (not too long) for Wild Honey.
 
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Chris Moise
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« Reply #70 on: September 14, 2008, 06:25:30 PM »


Do we know if they attempted any songs other than what made the LP during the Smiley sessions?
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« Reply #71 on: September 14, 2008, 06:57:22 PM »


Do we know if they attempted any songs other than what made the LP during the Smiley sessions?

Isn't there something they made called "Untitled song #1" during that period? I thought I saw something like that in Keith Badman's book.

Also, isn't "The Letter" from that period or is that Wild Honey?
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« Reply #72 on: September 14, 2008, 07:46:45 PM »


Do we know if they attempted any songs other than what made the LP during the Smiley sessions?

There were a few...one called "Good News" (I don't believe that one has ever surfaced) and another, the title of which escapes me, that eventually became "Little Pad".
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Boiled Egg
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« Reply #73 on: September 15, 2008, 08:20:25 AM »

bit of a timeline for Smiley Smile.  useful for unreleased songs, and slams home what a tossed off rush it was.  (info from LLVS.)

[Fri June 2 - Sgt Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band released in US]
Sat June 3 - Vegetables (Los Angeles Sound Recorders)
Mon June 5 - Vegetables (Western)
Tue June 6 - Vegetables (Western)
Wed June 7 - Vegetables (Western)
Sun June 11 - Good News (Brian's home studio hereafter)
Mon June 12 - H&V
Tue June 13 - H&V
Wed June 14 - H&V
Thu June 15 - Vegetables
Mon June 19 - Hawaiian Song
Tue June 20 - Hawaiian Song
Wed June 21 - Hawaiian Song
Sun June 25 - Good Time Mama
Mon June 26 - Good Time Mama
Wed June 28 - Little Pad
Thu June 29 - Fall Breaks And Back To Winter
Fri June 30 - With Me Tonight
Wed July 5 - She's Goin' Bald
Thu July 6 - Untitled (track only)
Mon July 10 - Wind Chimes
Tue July 11 - Wind Chimes
Wed July 12 - Wonderful
Thu July 13 - Whistle In
Fri July 14 - Gettin' Hungry

Tue July 18 [approx] - Capitol settles with Beach Boys

Mon 24 July 1967 - H&V/You're Welcome (not mentioned in the recording dates...) released

Tue July 25 - memo from Karl Engemann: "The second album [i.e. SMiLE, after Smiley Smile] which would be packaged with the [Frank Holmes] booklet would not include the selections HEROES AND VILLAINS and VEGETABLES..."

and, the punchline

Mon 31 July 1967 - Best Of The Beach Boys, Vol.II released

(wonderful and wind chimes: last minute additions?)
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holeypeacoat
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« Reply #74 on: September 15, 2008, 11:06:47 AM »

The Sea Of Tunes 18 bootleg shows Smiley Smiley in a very different light.

So, are SOT and Unsurpassed Masters the same thing?
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