Connected Smile songs

[buddhahat]

What Smile songs are connected to other Smile or post-Smile songs either in melody, that they once belonged together or that they later showed up in other songs? I have the following - not exhaustive (I'm no expert) and some of the connections may be a bit tenuous/incorrect but I'd be curious to know if anyone has any to add. I am only really thinking of connections that existed prior to BWPS.

1. Our Prayer
Surf's Up - The descending chords of the coda of SU are similar?

2. Heroes and Villains
Worms (Bicycle rider theme used in H&V)
Barnyard (Humble harv demo)
I'm In Great Shape (Humble harv demo)
Vegetables (part 3 of  GV boxset Vegetables sounds similar  to The Heroes, the Heroes part of H&V Sections from GV boxset)

3. Do You Dig Worms/Plymouth Rock
Heroes & Villains
Cabinessence (According to Vosse article, the Who Ran the Ion Horse and Grand Coulee sections were planned to go with the Bicyle Rider theme at one point )
Whistle In (Remember the day, remember the night is similar to Hawaiian melody)

4. Barnyard
Heroes and Villains
Great Shape
OMP/YAMS (along with FB in a barnyard suite?)
Friday Night (workshop sounds featured with Barnyard at some point according to Jules Siegel?)

5. Old Master Painter/YAMS
H&V (The False Barnyard possibly - maybe these belonged in a Barnyard suite - similar imo)

6. Cabinessence
Worms
Mrs O'Leary's Cow (Who Ran The Iron Horse section sounds similar to me)

7. Wonderful
Vegetables (part 3 turns up reworked in the Smiley version of Wonderful)

8. Look/Song For Children
Good Vibrations

9. Child is father of the Man
Surf's Up (the coda as recorded in 72)
Little Bird (features trumpet from Child)

10. Surf's Up
Child is Father to the Man
Fall Breaks (woody woodpecker)

11. Great Shape
H&V
Barnyard
IWBA/FN (would Brian have put these pieces together at some point as in BWPS?)
Vegetables (Do A Lot to go with Great shape? - have heard this theory)

12. I Wanna Be Around/FN
Fire (According to Carol Kaye this may have been part 2 of Fire)
Great shape?
Barnyard? Siegel article
Do It Again (Woodshop sounds)

12. Vegetables
H&V
Wonderful
With Me Tonight (identical bass part in one of the Smile versions of WMT)
Great shape (Do A Lot possibly related) ?

13. Holidays
Wind Chimes (the tag of Holidays used on Smiley version)
Tones/Tune x (last part with slide guitar sounds similar to me but as this is supposedly Carl's song then maybe just coincidence)

14. Wind Chimes
Holidays
Can't Wait Too Long

15. Mrs O'Leary's Cow
H&V (intro)
Cabinessence (Who Ran the Iron Horse imo)

16. Fire
IWBA/FN (Carol Kaye)
Fall Breaks

17. Water chant
Love to say Da da
Cool Cool water

18. Love to say Da Da
Water Chant
Cool Cool Water
All Day

19. Good Vibrations
Look
Here Today

20. With Me Tonight (Smile version)
Vegetables

21.He Gives Speeches
She's Goin bald

22. Tones/Tune X
Holidays?

23. All Day
Love to say Dada
H&V - Wasn't All Day initially part of H&V?

[XY]

2. Heroes and Villains
Worms (Bicycle rider theme used in H&V)
Barnyard (Humble harv demo)
I'm In Great Shape (Humble harv demo)
Vegetables (part 3 of  GV boxset Vegetables sounds similar  to The Heroes, the Heroes part of H&V Sections from GV boxset

Not sure about the Humble harv demo. Brian plays H&V and then says "here's another section". But it's not known if he meant H&V or the album.

[buddhahat]

2. Heroes and Villains
Worms (Bicycle rider theme used in H&V)
Barnyard (Humble harv demo)
I'm In Great Shape (Humble harv demo)
Vegetables (part 3 of  GV boxset Vegetables sounds similar  to The Heroes, the Heroes part of H&V Sections from GV boxset

Not sure about the Humble harv demo. Brian plays H&V and then says "here's another section". But it's not known if he meant H&V or the album.

I guess there is some ambiguity there but he plays pretty smoothly from the flutter tone into Great Shape so I'm inclined to think this is a demo of H&V and its different sections at this stage.

[Bicyclerider]

Both Heroes and Worms are connected to Wonderful (Smiley Smile version) due to the hey bop a rebop bridge (which is a Bicycle Rider theme variant).

Also, do a lot was part of Heroes at one point (the tag to Part 1 is do a lot/mama says).

Brian was demoing the new single, Heroes, for humble harv, so if he says "here's another section" that would be another section of Heroes, not the album presumably.  This is written up in LLVS where Brian plays harv Heroes and he says something like "that's going to be a smash."

[Chris Brown]

Yea at that early point, presumably Barnyard and IIGS were a part of Heroes, which I think would have sounded pretty darn cool.  Kinda like a western/rural musical mosaic.  At some point before December, they branched out and became their own "songs".  I think IIGS might have been connected to Vega-Tables at some point, since they share that similar health and wellness theme.  Maybe something like IIGS as the verse, "Eat a Lot" as a chorus (I know the keys don't fit but Brian was recording lots of things in 3 different keys anyways, so he could have fixed that), then maybe the fade at the end of Vega-Tables from the box set.  I highly doubt that Brian would have just let IIGS stand alone as it is without making it a full song somehow. 

[PMcC]

Take the above list at the beginning of this post, and you have the beginnings of an excellent 'mash-up', along the lines of the Beatles "Love"...If I had the time I would love to tackle that..

[XY]

Wow, so the Humble harv demo songs were really all once part of H&V ?! It's certainly a logical step forward. GV was the pocket symphony, all based on one song. H&V in this early stage would have been something like a pocket opera, 10 songs combined in one in 3 minutes...oh yeah, I once heard talk about a 10 minutes edit and single A & B side, so...
This probably wasn't the idea, but this almost sounds like a overture to the album. After all the H&V segments became their own songs it's no wonder Brian had to pay full attention to the song.
At one point Brian played with the idea to have "Surf's Up" as B-Side. Man, the message of this single would have been perfect for the mid 60's. Side A the H&V sound collage and on side B the words of SU.

[buddhahat]

Both Heroes and Worms are connected to Wonderful (Smiley Smile version) due to the hey bop a rebop bridge (which is a Bicycle Rider theme variant).

Also, do a lot was part of Heroes at one point (the tag to Part 1 is do a lot/mama says).

Brian was demoing the new single, Heroes, for humble harv, so if he says "here's another section" that would be another section of Heroes, not the album presumably.  This is written up in LLVS where Brian plays harv Heroes and he says something like "that's going to be a smash."

Thanks Bicycle Rider. I never thought of the hey bop a rebop bridge of Wonderful as a Bicycle Rider theme variant. Does that mean all the dit dit dit Heroes & Villlains sections on the GV Boxset Linnett mix are also Bicycle Rider theme variants as the Wonderful bridge sounds similar to those to me?

I had heard a fan mix that mixed the Do a Lot vocals over Tag to part 1 and it fits perfectly so I agree this must be the same piece of music.

[Chris Brown]

Both Heroes and Worms are connected to Wonderful (Smiley Smile version) due to the hey bop a rebop bridge (which is a Bicycle Rider theme variant).

Also, do a lot was part of Heroes at one point (the tag to Part 1 is do a lot/mama says).

Brian was demoing the new single, Heroes, for humble harv, so if he says "here's another section" that would be another section of Heroes, not the album presumably.  This is written up in LLVS where Brian plays harv Heroes and he says something like "that's going to be a smash."

Thanks Bicycle Rider. I never thought of the hey bop a rebop bridge of Wonderful as a Bicycle Rider theme variant. Does that mean all the dit dit dit Heroes & Villlains sections on the GV Boxset Linnett mix are also Bicycle Rider theme variants as the Wonderful bridge sounds similar to those to me?

I had heard a fan mix that mixed the Do a Lot vocals over Tag to part 1 and it fits perfectly so I agree this must be the same piece of music.

Yeah some of those "dit dit dit" sections of H&V are a takeoff on Bicycle Rider too.  You can especially hear it when Al is doing his "ba, ba, ba ba ba ba", and Mike is doing that low "the heroes, the heroes, the heroes and villains" in a creepy voice.  In that Wonderful section though, you can hear the Bicycle Rider/H&V Chorus melody being played verbatim (of course, in a different key) on a piano.  Another place it can be found is the Vega-Tables tag on the box set.  Brian must've really liked that melody, since he put it so many places.  That, or maybe he couldn't decide where it belonged...probably more likely. 

[buddhahat]

Both Heroes and Worms are connected to Wonderful (Smiley Smile version) due to the hey bop a rebop bridge (which is a Bicycle Rider theme variant).

Also, do a lot was part of Heroes at one point (the tag to Part 1 is do a lot/mama says).

Brian was demoing the new single, Heroes, for humble harv, so if he says "here's another section" that would be another section of Heroes, not the album presumably.  This is written up in LLVS where Brian plays harv Heroes and he says something like "that's going to be a smash."

Thanks Bicycle Rider. I never thought of the hey bop a rebop bridge of Wonderful as a Bicycle Rider theme variant. Does that mean all the dit dit dit Heroes & Villlains sections on the GV Boxset Linnett mix are also Bicycle Rider theme variants as the Wonderful bridge sounds similar to those to me?

I had heard a fan mix that mixed the Do a Lot vocals over Tag to part 1 and it fits perfectly so I agree this must be the same piece of music.

Yeah some of those "dit dit dit" sections of H&V are a takeoff on Bicycle Rider too.  You can especially hear it when Al is doing his "ba, ba, ba ba ba ba", and Mike is doing that low "the heroes, the heroes, the heroes and villains" in a creepy voice.  In that Wonderful section though, you can hear the Bicycle Rider/H&V Chorus melody being played verbatim (of course, in a different key) on a piano.  Another place it can be found is the Vega-Tables tag on the box set.  Brian must've really liked that melody, since he put it so many places.  That, or maybe he couldn't decide where it belonged...probably more likely. 

Thanks Chris I'll have to give those sections another listen as I've never noticed the similarity.

[James Hughes-Clarke]

How about the vocal link at the end of "H&V" which eventually resurfaced as the intro to "Goin On"?

[buddhahat]

How about the vocal link at the end of "H&V" which eventually resurfaced as the intro to "Goin On"?

I don't think I know this track. Which album's it on?

[Chris Brown]

How about the vocal link at the end of "H&V" which eventually resurfaced as the intro to "Goin On"?

I don't think I know this track. Which album's it on?

Its on KTSA; it's also track 23 on the 4th CD of the GV box set.

[TheLazenby]

I never really noticed that before... i don't know if it was intentional though, but I can see your point.

[XY]

So "Goin' On" was originally intended for SMILE? Man, I start to believe that Brian didn't write a single song after SMILE. I'm sure a H&V compilation reel with "Goin' On" on it will turn up someday. It was all written during SMILE.
"Saturday Morning In The City", "Night Blooming Jasmine", everything.

[James Hughes-Clarke]

We're only talking about a 3 or 4 second link here, not the entire song.  Nonetheless, the harmony parts are identical, so Brian and/or the band must have known its origins.

[Julia]

In terms of structure...

GV and H&V were the multipart singles.

OMP and WC had three distinct parts.

Barnyard Suite (IIGS/IWBA/WS/BY) and Elements would've had four parts each presumably.

CIFOTM and Worms have extended bridges.

Wonderful and SU lack choruses in the traditional sense and were 2-part songs. (I strongly suspect Wonderful was originally paired with HGS, then Look, then the Wonderful Insert, but that little 2 minute piece wouldn't have stood alone I say--it begins and ends too abruptly.)

Veggies and CE had verse-chorus-verse-chorus-fade structure and the choruses change within the song (like truck driving man over one of Cabin's while Veggies has a faster and slower "do a lot.")

I know the tracks were always in flux so this almost certainly wasn't a deliberate plan but it's interesting how it worked out.

[doinnothin]

The Vegetables chorus changing in speed connects with the Heroes & Villains "part 2"/"chants" that always struck me as an attempt at a chorus that would change over the course of the song as well. Makes sense that when he abandoned H&V as the single he brought that same idea to Vegetables.

[Julia]

Thinking about it further...

Won and GV are relationships (one the connection, the other the fallout)
Heroes and Surf are about the joy of children as solace in a terrible society
CE and WC are about a nice tranquil pad with quiet verses and booming choruses as something (train/wind) blows past
Elements are the domain of nature, outside, Barnyard suite is about domain of man, inside
DYLW and CIFOTM are about the past affecting the future.
Veggies and OMP are the odd ones out, but you could force a connection by saying they represent rejecting the "Sky Father" God, the Heavenly Painter, in favor of the "Earth Mother" Goddess, the Womb of Nature.

Seen thru a different lens...

H&V and CIFOTM have titles that feature opposites.
WC, SU, VT, DYLW are the ones whose titles evoke the elements (Vega, Star, big ball of fire)
OMP and Wonderful are about an old man and young woman, the sad loss of a good relationship and the hopeful ending of a bad one.
CE and LtSD are drug references. (Holmes says CE was a play on "Cannabis")
GV and IIGS...have positive adjectives?

And even another way...

H&V and OMP are about losing a loved one.
Won and CIFOTM are about parents and kids
CE and DYLW are about forms of travel
WC and VT are appreciating inanimate objects
SU and Fire are about a society destroyed by its own misplaced priorities
IIGS and GV are about falling in love? (IWBA/WS is like a musical metaphor for mending a broken heart)

Finally, if you adjust your glasses...

GV and Elements are about natural, balancing connections between opposing forces
CE and Wonderful about how you can't "take" something beautiful without diminishing it
CIFOTM and H&V are children growing up to surpass parents?
DYLW and SU are about seeing the past promises and future potential to inspire you to make the present better.
OMP and IIGS are both sides of a heat-break, during and after
VT and WC aren't elements but frequently get mistaken for them due to their adjacent subject matters?

Oh alright one more...

Worms and Chimes have similar melodies in the verses (to my ears) and piano outros.
CE and CIFOTM have 3 parts that repeat (as opposed to WC and OMP, where each segment is used only once)
Wonderful and He Gives Speeches are similar droning narrative songs, similar melodies, male and female perspective
Heroes and Veggies are the most overtly upbeat sounding
Surf and IIGS are about building a new place of peace and fun, on different scales.

[BJL]

Thinking about it further...

Won and GV are relationships (one the connection, the other the fallout)
Heroes and Surf are about the joy of children as solace in a terrible society
CE and WC are about a nice tranquil pad with quiet verses and booming choruses as something (train/wind) blows past
Elements are the domain of nature, outside, Barnyard suite is about domain of man, inside
DYLW and CIFOTM are about the past affecting the future.
Veggies and OMP are the odd ones out, but you could force a connection by saying they represent rejecting the "Sky Father" God, the Heavenly Painter, in favor of the "Earth Mother" Goddess, the Womb of Nature.

Seen thru a different lens...

H&V and CIFOTM have titles that feature opposites.
WC, SU, VT, DYLW are the ones whose titles evoke the elements (Vega, Star, big ball of fire)
OMP and Wonderful are about an old man and young woman, the sad loss of a good relationship and the hopeful ending of a bad one.
CE and LtSD are drug references. (Holmes says CE was a play on "Cannabis")
GV and IIGS...have positive adjectives?

And even another way...

H&V and OMP are about losing a loved one.
Won and CIFOTM are about parents and kids
CE and DYLW are about forms of travel
WC and VT are appreciating inanimate objects
SU and Fire are about a society destroyed by its own misplaced priorities
IIGS and GV are about falling in love? (IWBA/WS is like a musical metaphor for mending a broken heart)

Finally, if you adjust your glasses...

GV and Elements are about natural, balancing connections between opposing forces
CE and Wonderful about how you can't "take" something beautiful without diminishing it
CIFOTM and H&V are children growing up to surpass parents?
DYLW and SU are about seeing the past promises and future potential to inspire you to make the present better.
OMP and IIGS are both sides of a heat-break, during and after
VT and WC aren't elements but frequently get mistaken for them due to their adjacent subject matters?

Oh alright one more...

Worms and Chimes have similar melodies in the verses (to my ears) and piano outros.
CE and CIFOTM have 3 parts that repeat (as opposed to WC and OMP, where each segment is used only once)
Wonderful and He Gives Speeches are similar droning narrative songs, similar melodies, male and female perspective
Heroes and Veggies are the most overtly upbeat sounding
Surf and IIGS are about building a new place of peace and fun, on different scales.

This post is such a great statement of the fact that the themes of this album are rich and complex and intertwined across all the songs, and that the reduction of those songs into an "America" half and a "coming of age" half (with some kind of Elements Suite that's outside of those themes and maybe includes Wind Chimes and Vegetables) really does not reflect what the songs themselves are doing at all.

[Julia]

This post is such a great statement of the fact that the themes of this album are rich and complex and intertwined across all the songs, and that the reduction of those songs into an "America" half and a "coming of age" half (with some kind of Elements Suite that's outside of those themes and maybe includes Wind Chimes and Vegetables) really does not reflect what the songs themselves are doing at all.

I agree the songs are very interconnected and that's why Brian couldn't decide on a final order. There's more going on than just "that's one of the elements!" and trying to shoehorn things into that template does them a great disservice. I think it was Joshilyn who said something like "can't we just appreciate this song on its own terms, as a beautiful composition, without needing it to be part of some grandiose element suite?"

I used to think Brian's plan was more tangible, just never directly attested to, but still rediscoverable with pieces of evidence and intuition. I now no longer think that was the case per se but things still had a way of falling into place as it were. I think it's significant VDP never --NEVER-- talks about the elements or what song/feel is earth/air. But he does, pre and post BWPS, without any direct goading or retroactive justification, talk about SMiLE as "Americans talking about America" and "innocence...perhaps the innocence America had lost" and "Brian still had anxiety about growing up, longing for his childhood in his muse at this time" in interviews I've seen. (And chronicled, as you know.) It's pretty obvious those were the two most overriding themes running through the album. I don't think they were purposefully thinking in terms of "oh, this'll go on Side 1" and "ok, this will be part of the 'Cycle of Life' movement" but these two vintage groupings are what naturally came from their output.

I absolutely swear to God, I didn't plan things this way, I just looked at the tracks and thought of all the ways they might be interrelated at first glance (and not being versed on things like what keys they're written in, what time signature, what chords they use--someone could please fill me in) but those "sides" still permeate this exercise. With the exception of the "round 3 pairings" all of them roughly separate the tracks according to the basic templates of the Americana/Innocence sides I like to use. (Whether you believe me or not, it wasn't intentional.) So, while I acknowledge there are other valid ways to do it--Im not gonna accuse different sequence philosophies of ignoring some obvious design of Brian's--to me this is just the framework where the music intuitively fits best. I swear, I've tried to move on from it and do like a one-suite ("everything is part of H&V") as well as four-suite (manifest destiny, pastoral lifestyle, elemental cycle, coming of age--jumbled around in non-traditional pairings on the sides) but I'm just never as satisfied with the results. Just my opinion though.