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Author Topic: Rare song -- Brian playing "Susie Cincinnati" and "Little Child" in Holland!  (Read 49779 times)
Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #25 on: February 04, 2006, 12:05:56 PM »

Listened again... and now I'm convinced it's Alan. Why is he stopping & starting the first tune ? Like he says " "forgot the darn song". And if it IS sped up (which i don't believe), then the talking voice would be way too low for Brian. Plus, makes sense for Alan to be playing his own song.

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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #26 on: February 04, 2006, 12:13:15 PM »

Let's be honest, the B-side to Add Some Music is as good as unreleased.
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Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2006, 12:17:55 PM »

Why is he stopping & starting the first tune ? Like he says " "forgot the darn song".

That was kind of my point - that Brian forgets how songs go. I just didn't want to say it.

Anyway, if it wasn't Brian, this recording also fooled the producers of the documentary that aired it, because they play it while showing and talking about Brian.

Also, does anybody think the beginning of "Susie Cincinnati" that somebody is playing on the piano sounds like "Night Time" from BW 88?
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king of anglia
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2006, 12:20:44 PM »

Yes but the piano is not in tune with standard tuning. The song on the tape is somewhere below Ab minor, but should be in G minor I think. The piano playing style is totally Brian's. The voice is unmistakebly Brian Wilson's. He keeps stopping and starting becuase that's what he always does, just like the Its Over Now demo.
I don't know about the Susie Cincinatti demo, but the first song is definitely Brian singing. It sounds like a BW song as well, the chords are completely BW esque, the lyrics too.
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2006, 12:22:37 PM »

Seriously, we need a double disc set of Brian's home recordings. That is, if they can find enough material. Elvis P. had one, Brian sure can have one.
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2006, 12:32:18 PM »

I could see how it could sound like Al in places.  Isn't Susie in F# on the record?  That would actually make this recording 4 semitones flat, if Brian is playing it in the same key it was recorded in.

I think you're overthinking it, Andrew. 
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2006, 12:33:35 PM »

Screw that! We need a box set! I'd freaking buy it.

Sorry, Andrew...it's Brian. It sounds too much like his singing on Awake, and pretty much everything else he sang around that time frame. The phrasing, the whiny falsetto, the timbre of his voice when he sings the lower parts...it's Brian. Amen to those who pointed out that he sounds very "inbetween" the young Brian and the gruff Brian. Sounds reminiscent of the Love You demos too.

As for the Susie Cincinatti part, might be Al.
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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2006, 12:35:41 PM »

Great to see this recording leak out a little more openly. Kudos to the anonymous benefactor.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2006, 01:08:26 PM »

Screw that! We need a box set! I'd freaking buy it.

Sorry, Andrew...it's Brian. It sounds too much like his singing on Awake, and pretty much everything else he sang around that time frame. The phrasing, the whiny falsetto, the timbre of his voice when he sings the lower parts...it's Brian. Amen to those who pointed out that he sounds very "inbetween" the young Brian and the gruff Brian. Sounds reminiscent of the Love You demos too.

As for the Susie Cincinatti part, might be Al.

In a friendly spirit of discussion...

1. It sounds nothing like Brian on "Awake" - there he's close to adenoidal (allowing for the triple-tracking), here it's just high.

2. If you even partially concede that "SC" might be Al, then according to everyone else's ears, so is the first song. The speaking voice is Alan - it's got his resonance and edge. Brian back then was softly spoken.

3. How many of you have listened with the spatializer plug in ? It makes everything approx 1000% clearer.

4. Dan asked " It also has Brian doing "Susie Cincinnati".  Now why he would be doing this a few years after it was recorded and put on the "B" side of a single?  In fact, why would he be doing it all since it was supposedly an Al Jardine song?"

How about, because it's Alan singing his own song ? Sometimes, the obvious answer is the correct answer.

I feel this one is going to run and run...   Grin
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 01:14:26 PM by Andrew G. Doe » Logged

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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2006, 01:16:30 PM »

Screw that! We need a box set! I'd freaking buy it.

Sorry, Andrew...it's Brian. It sounds too much like his singing on Awake, and pretty much everything else he sang around that time frame. The phrasing, the whiny falsetto, the timbre of his voice when he sings the lower parts...it's Brian. Amen to those who pointed out that he sounds very "inbetween" the young Brian and the gruff Brian. Sounds reminiscent of the Love You demos too.

As for the Susie Cincinatti part, might be Al.

In a friendly spirit of discussion...

1. It sounds nothing like Brian on "Awake" - there he's close to adenoidal (allowing for the triple-tracking), here it's just high.

2. If you even partially concede that "SC" might be Al, then according to everyone else's ears, so is the first song. The speaking voice is Alan - it's got his resonance and edge. Brian back then was softly spoken.

3. How many of you have listened with the spatializer plug in ? It makes everything approx 1000% clearer.


The same way you hear Alan's 'resonance and edge' is how I hear Brian's 'twang and slur'. Alan speaks very clearly, to this day...it can't be him on that tape. 1:40 - 'and the children could fly, thered be no need for birds' - that sounds too much like Brian and nothing like Alan.  'could fly' sounds like Brian on the 2004 SMiLE, almost.
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 01:45:36 PM by amosario » Logged

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« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2006, 01:26:04 PM »

Could be... except that the 2004 voice of Brian is the product of some 30 years of smoking, snorting coke and self-medicating himself nearly out of existence (not to mention Landy pumpiing him full of thorazine and uppers). Saying it's Brian in 1972 by comparing it with his 2004 voice is a spurious comparison, to say the least.

Remember how a whole mess of us used to think it was Brian singing the intro to the original "Loop De Loop" ? Better researchers that I, those with far better acces to tapes, have observed how Alan can sound very much like Brian.
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2006, 01:26:42 PM »

Quote
3. How many of you have listened with the spatializer plug in ? It makes everything approx 1000% clearer.

What would a spatializer do to what is essentially a mono recording?

Quote
Dan asked " It also has Brian doing "Susie Cincinnati".  Now why he would be doing this a few years after it was recorded and put on the "B" side of a single?  In fact, why would he be doing it all since it was supposedly an Al Jardine song?"

Because he liked the song? 
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Joshilyn Hoisington
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« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2006, 01:27:40 PM »

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Remember how a whole mess of us used to think it was Brian singing the intro to the original "Loop De Loop" ? Better researchers that I, those with far better acces to tapes, have observed how Alan can sound very much like Brian.

Loop de Loop always sounded like Al to me.
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« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2006, 01:29:44 PM »

I never bought into Brian singing LDL. I can tell the difference between Al and Brian. This time, it's Brian. The note that does it for me is when he sings the lower "no need for Birds", (almost "bir-rirds") and his voice wavers a bit. Brian's voice always did that, at least from Wild Honey on. Al's voice was always, for lack of a better term, "straighter".

edit...have you heard the "fuller" version? Thanks to the person who sent it to me Wink
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« Reply #39 on: February 04, 2006, 01:30:08 PM »

I think the best evidence that it's Brian is the Piano.  Whoever is singing is clearly also playing piano, and the piano is being played by Brian.  The voicings the player is choosing across chord changes, the rhythmic accents on the bass notes, is so much in the Brian Wilson idiom that it has to be the man himself.  I wasn't aware that Al even really played piano that much.
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« Reply #40 on: February 04, 2006, 01:33:59 PM »

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Al's voice was always, for lack of a better term, "straighter".

Well, that I disagree with.  Brian, Carl and Al all started allowing vibrato to creep into their voices after the collapse of Smile.  Mike too, really.  But I think Al's vibrato became the most pronounced and consistent from song to song.  I think in this case, it's just Brian stuggling to hit the low note, not because it's that low, but because he hadn't been down there for awhile, rather than a stylistic concern.
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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #41 on: February 04, 2006, 01:34:44 PM »

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3. How many of you have listened with the spatializer plug in ? It makes everything approx 1000% clearer.

What would a spatializer do to what is essentially a mono recording?

Please forgive the lack of technical terminology... but besically it makes it louder and clearer. Without the spatializer, it's a murky mess bordering the threshold of audibility. With, it's granted a tad echoic, but about three times louder as much clearer.

To my ears, anyway.  Smiley

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Andrew G. Doe
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« Reply #42 on: February 04, 2006, 01:36:39 PM »

Ah, I love the smell of burning issues in the evening.  Cool
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« Reply #43 on: February 04, 2006, 01:38:40 PM »

If we're feeling frisky, we could always ask Alan Boyd to draw Alan Jardine's attention to the recording, or play it for him to verify the singer(s).
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« Reply #44 on: February 04, 2006, 02:47:47 PM »

99% Brian singing.  The point is, the singer is the same person as the piano player. And the talking sounds very Brian-like, especially when he says "forgot the darn song".

I listened to a mono fold-down of the thing; the only thing that makes it listenable. There is a second voice talking near the middle of the clip...is that Al?

I am not so sure about Susie Cincinnati...
« Last Edit: February 04, 2006, 02:49:34 PM by Andreas » Logged
Sheriff John Stone
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« Reply #45 on: February 04, 2006, 03:24:28 PM »

If that was Al...damn, why didn't he sing in that voice more often!

Isn't it amazing how similar the Beach Boys' voices sounded in the 1968-1973 time frame. I mean, you can listen to a track over and over, and pick it apart, and study it - and still not be able to tell who you're listening to.

OK, let the debate continue...
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« Reply #46 on: February 04, 2006, 03:31:44 PM »

Sounds like classic BW piano to my ears.  The quality inhibits the vocal a bit....but it really does NOT sound like AL.  I'll side with those who feel this is Brian.  The talking voice resembles Brian at that time....I heard a telephone interview with Brian somewhere done in late fall 74 that sounds like this...speaking voice wise.
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« Reply #47 on: February 04, 2006, 03:55:56 PM »

Sounds like Brian to me. Actually, it reminds me of the SOT 18 stuff.
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« Reply #48 on: February 04, 2006, 05:49:21 PM »

How do we know this is from Holland?  Is that an educated guess....is it on a reel of stuff from the album of the same name?  Did I miss something on the track that indicated it was recorded in Holland?
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« Reply #49 on: February 04, 2006, 06:00:21 PM »

Quote
(Here's the intro to the tape from the website...)


When Brian Wilson and the other Beach Boys ,recorded Holland in
Holland, I lent Brian a small UHER reel to reel tape recorder, so he
could have something for ideas at home...
when i got it back, when he left for the usa again, it still had some
music and parts of a song on a tape.
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