Alleged TLOS demos...

[the captain]

I would imagine--and hope--the final product would sound different! The demos are demos. If it were to be released with out of time drumming, bad MIDI sounds, half-fleshed out/pre-show arrangements and the full Brian-and-Scott choir, it would be a ridiculous waste of time. I won't say the demos aren't spirited. I won't say I wasn't happy to hear them. But they are demos. It's really just not even the same thing. I'm not talking about big-name outside producers, or over-slick sounds. I'm against both ideas. I'm talking about professionally engineered recordings by talented players who are making an effort to do a good job (as opposed to a pair of talented guys getting their ideas on "tape" [I assume it wasn't actually on physical tape...] so the band members can learn their parts).

[absinthe_boy]

I think the final product may well sound quite different. 

Having now listened to the (alleged) demos which may (or may not) exist as FLAC files......LOL....

I agree. Those are basic demos put together by Brian and Scott for (presumably) the band to hear prior to the final arrangements being constructed for the live performances. Its great to hear the demos but any final studio recording will sound.....quite different, as AGD says. The album may bear little resemblance to those demos.

[c-man]

I think the final product may well sound quite different. 

Having now listened to the (alleged) demos which may (or may not) exist as FLAC files......LOL....

I agree. Those are basic demos put together by Brian and Scott for (presumably) the band to hear prior to the final arrangements being constructed for the live performances. Its great to hear the demos but any final studio recording will sound.....quite different, as AGD says. The album may bear little resemblance to those demos.

Hopefully it will bear a BIG resemblance to the live versions...

[Amy B.]

I would imagine--and hope--the final product would sound different! The demos are demos.

I know that. I was referring to Andrew's statement, which ended in an emoticon that suggested he had some kind of insider info that told him the songs would be different in a bad way. As in, they're putting a sax solo on Midnight's Another Day because the adult contempo producer of the moment is now involved.

[absinthe_boy]

I hope AGD will correct me if I am wrong, but I think his frowney-smiley was because I said I thought the reason for Bri/Mel actively trying to stop distribution of these recordings might be because the final album will sound very different....but that I felt AGD might well know of another reason.

Then he wrote that the final record should sound different with a frowney-smiley....which to me answers my question! I don't think he's saying that some outside hotshot producer wants to crank up the dB, remove the dynamic range and have some rapper shouting in the middle of Been Too Long...for example...

[Amy B.]

have some rapper shouting in the middle of Been Too Long...for example...

Actually, I'd kind of like to hear that one. Bonus track, anyone? 

[Andrew G. Doe]

I hope AGD will correct me if I am wrong, but I think his frowney-smiley was because I said I thought the reason for Bri/Mel actively trying to stop distribution of these recordings might be because the final album will sound very different....but that I felt AGD might well know of another reason.

Then he wrote that the final record should sound different with a frowney-smiley....which to me answers my question! I don't think he's saying that some outside hotshot producer wants to crank up the dB, remove the dynamic range and have some rapper shouting in the middle of Been Too Long...for example...

This is all I'll say: I was anticipating the studio version of TLOS with uncommon impatience. Not so much any more. I think... to expect another BWPS could now be unrealistic.

[The Shift]

Ah, you tease, you tease!

You make it sound like the fully realised version could be a mess and that we might be happier with the demos? 

Andrew, I'm so glad you're not my girlfriend!

[carl r]

I hope AGD will correct me if I am wrong, but I think his frowney-smiley was because I said I thought the reason for Bri/Mel actively trying to stop distribution of these recordings might be because the final album will sound very different....but that I felt AGD might well know of another reason.

Then he wrote that the final record should sound different with a frowney-smiley....which to me answers my question! I don't think he's saying that some outside hotshot producer wants to crank up the dB, remove the dynamic range and have some rapper shouting in the middle of Been Too Long...for example...

This is all I'll say: I was anticipating the studio version of TLOS with uncommon impatience. Not so much any more. I think... to expect another BWPS could now be unrealistic.

I'd imagine the main danger isn't a producer with futuristic ideas (I'd say Mark Linnett is "forward-looking" in many ways), more that the production has reverted to default cheap plastic. Damn shame if this has happened. Fingers crossed it just means a low-key approach based on acoustics.

[Dancing Bear]

Ok, I'll shoot: I guess AGD means the abscence of key members of the Brian Wilson Band in the recording/production process.

If I'm right, what do I win? A deleted post? 

[Amy B.]

Aha. No Stockholm Strings & Horns, fewer "real" instruments?

But that can't be... I mean, they paid SS&H to perform in London. How much more could it cost to pay them for studio time?
Or maybe I'm just wrong.

[Chris Brown]

Obviously you're far more in the loop than us, Andrew, but how much stock can you really put in demos?  Unless the problem is like Amy suggested about a lack of "real" instruments, or you know something about the final recordings that are being done that we don't.  I can't imagine it being the production (as the last few Brian has done have been quite good, I think) or absence of certain band members, so I can't possibly guess what it might be.

We love you AGD but you are quite the tease!

[the captain]

I would imagine--and hope--the final product would sound different! The demos are demos.

I know that. I was referring to Andrew's statement, which ended in an emoticon that suggested he had some kind of insider info that told him the songs would be different in a bad way. As in, they're putting a sax solo on Midnight's Another Day because the adult contempo producer of the moment is now involved.

My comment wasn't specifically aimed at you; more the topic in general. And I believe we've got a deleted post now in that area that was more my point of contention originally.

[Amy B.]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

[Wirestone]

Well, hell, maybe I should write what my (self) deleted post said! I only edited it because I thought it a tad too inflammatory.

What if Scott Bennett was booted from the band? The demos show him as a major co-creative force in TLOS -- and I certainly didn't know that he wrote "Southern California." That would be a fairly basic reason to want them squelched.

But I can't imagine this is the case. My suspicion is that the body of the work has changed in some substantial way. That is, maybe the VDP linking vignettes have been deleted.

Who knows?

[Jim McShane]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

[doc smiley]

now what Jim says....?

does he know something that most of us don't ;  or is he speculating in a most negative and frankly
uncomfortable way....


I'm looking forward to TLOS  and regardless of the gossip, until we hear otherwise, I'm assuming that Brian is recording with the people that he wants to perform with...

If the means a few band member changes.. so be it, because while Brian is well off, the others are just musicians and need to make ends $$ meet..

I'm surprised that they all have hung together as long as they have....

IMHO

Doc Smiley

[Wilsonista]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

Wow. Coming from one of the heartiest supporters of the BW camp and BW band, that's saying something.

[Wirestone]

Frankly, if it were just BW and the band making the decisions and the music, I would heartily support them. But they never have quite gotten to that point -- so much has been dictated by outside business forces and by the expectations of BW's management team.

I mean, what the hell was GIOMH about? That album was clearly something the band and BW were less than enthusiastic about. But it got made, because hey, it helped stoke the "Brian is still creative" storyline the same year that Smile came out. I mean, I love GIOMH, but there's no use denying that it's fitfully inspired, at best.

Let's not get into the scads of DVD releases, featuring "tributes" from such august talents as Ricky Martin.

Where were the collaborations with the Wondermints? Where were the Darian co-writes? Hell, where were the Foskett co-writes? Scott Bennett is nice and all, but why was he the one plucked out for songwriting on TLOS anyway? The BW band's potential has hardly ever been fully realized.

Meanwhile, Brian seems to putter along in his own little world -- and god knows it was nice to see that he still can bang out a tune and sing it (on record) nicely. But his moments of inspiration come and go, and they've seldom been captured (with the exception of something like "Walking Down the Path of Life," written and recorded in a month or two).

TLOS seemed to be a chance to capture that inspiration on record, for once, in a way that hadn't been worried to death. But it looks like it is. I will enjoy the record in whatever form it takes, I'm sure -- assuming the basic songs haven't changed. But the BW band is so talented. So capable. They have brought BW so much joy.

They, and he, deserve better.

[Jim McShane]

Having just read the blueboard, it seems as if there may be an issue with band members.

I have to say - it would be damn hard to screw this whole thing up much worse than the BW camp has. Instead of eagerly anticipating either US live performances or a top-shelf recording of TLOS, it's FUBAR. The "demos" are just another bit of the fiasco this has all become.

People in New York have paid for a show that may or may not exist, there are no US TLOS performances on the "tour" (if you can call it a tour); and now there are rumors of band member departures. Why? Why would now be the time to boot out long time band members like Bob and Jim - or Scott??

As my former business partner used to say, the BW organization seems to have snatched defeat from the jaws of victory - big time.

And like AGD, my eager anticipation has turned to apathy or maybe even disgust.

Wow. Coming from one of the heartiest supporters of the BW camp and BW band, that's saying something.

I think much more the band than the BW camp, RobMac. People can say what they like, but I believe that band is a unique combination of wonderful, extraordinary musical talent and genuinely great, caring people. I can't imagine Brian's resurgence happening without them, at least not to the level of finishing Smile, etc.  Why in the world would anyone ever want to mess up that chemistry??

I was never a big fan of the BW "camp" per se, although I probably HAD a higher opinion of them than some, especially as relates to BWPS. But on the other hand - from the first time I saw them, I've been a huge fan of the band. There are very few ensembles (now or in the past) that could make great music come alive like they did, and do it with such class and such great attitudes. If indeed Jim and Bob (or Scott) have been "fired" it would be a travesty and a damn shame. Probably the beginning of the end of the greatest touring band I and many others have ever seen/heard too. And I believe they deserve much better than that.

[Susan]

double post

[Susan]

First of all, let's remember that "departures" can be motivated from either side.  Thinking "fired" is jumping to conclusions.

Hell, where were the Foskett co-writes? Scott Bennett is nice and all, but why was he the one plucked out for songwriting on TLOS anyway?

Jeff has been great to the fans, and he has been Brian's right hand in many ways.  I would wager, in fact, that if not for Jeff,the last ten years would have been very empty indeed for Brian fans!  Jeff has been irreplaceable on so many levels.  But Scott is many times the songwriter Jeff is.  That's why Scott was "plucked." 

And...didn't many of the sessions between Brian and Scott for what eventually became TLOS take place in summer '06?  Hard to know if anybody was plucking anything, or if a couple of guys were just writing some songs together.

[Wirestone]

Susan--I probably should not have hit Scott like that. For what it's worth, I think the TLOS songs are excellent, and he obviously played a big role with them.

I was just making the larger point that so many opportunities with the band seem to have been passed by. Why didn't Darian and Brian ever write together, for instance? Why didn't all of this talent help Brian create new things? They are clearly capable of cutting an album in a month or two. Where are our half-dozen new BW studio LPs full of band collaborations and their fresh, vibrant playing and singing?

That all seemed possible, back in 99-01. Now -- not so much.

[Jim McShane]

First of all, let's remember that "departures" can be motivated from either side.  Thinking "fired" is jumping to conclusions.

You are correct of course, but what I've seen written up to this point seems to point towards "fired". Or "eased out" maybe would be a better way to say it.  And it may all be just rumor, but if it's true it's not good news.

[SG7]

All I can say this is all very sad to watch and hear about.