Who's Idea was it to put Sloop John B on PS--Brian's or Capitol's?

[c-man]

Right on, Peter...to me, that thread runs all the way through Brian's work.
Take the unreleased gem "Water Builds Up"...if you were to ask any, and I mean ANY,
songwriter to write a song about anger...how do you think it would sound?  ANGRY, right?
Yet, BW manages to take a different approach and create something tuneful, joyous, and
in your words, "ecstatic", "trimumphant", and "transcendent".

Maybe not quite on the scale of "SJB", but the same principle applies.

C-Man

[PMcC]

your analysis of Brian's "Water Builds Up" is among the best I've read of his work in a while. That is Brian Wilson's music in a nutshell: Even his angry songs have a thread of hope and joy. And his blissful songs are wonderous. That's why his music puts me on a different plane of hope and understanding when I listen to his work...or Love and Mercy, if you will.

[Surfer Joe]

Interestingly, I heard a radio interview with Brian around 1990 or so in which the song was mentioned, and he said that he had never been happy with the vocal, but had let it go and then lived to regret it.  He said something about learning a lesson to do it right or live with it the rest of your life- a very surprising one-time observation that I never heard him make elsewhere- but he's always been loaded with those.  SO what's wrong with that vocal?

I'm in the camp that once thought it didn't quite fit in with the album, compositionally, but I've lived with if for so long that it doesn't strike me that way anymore.  And it's such an incredible piece of work that it really doesn't matter.

I've actually heard the "designer keys" theory before, years ago from a guy who spent a lot of his life trying to sequence SMiLE; he had discovered a pattern and was trying to use that as a clue.  It's worthy of its own thread.  It would be amazing to think that they had the vocal versatility to record so well in pre-determinded designer keys rather than what was the most comfortable or easiest ot sing and (later) play.

[Surfer Joe]

your analysis of Brian's "Water Builds Up" is among the best I've read of his work in a while. That is Brian Wilson's music in a nutshell: Even his angry songs have a thread of hope and joy. And his blissful songs are wonderous. That's why his music puts me on a different plane of hope and understanding when I listen to his work...or Love and Mercy, if you will.

Lindsey Buckingham observed in Rolling Stone years ago (1989?) that Brian's melodies always said something more profound than any lyrics could ever say- they expressed something that couldn't be articulated.

Maybe the French writer Marcel Proust could have managed it in words.  And he spent a lot of his life in bed, too.

[Aegir]

I seem to remember having said this somewhere else earlier, but when I first heard Pet Sounds, I was completely unaware of any of the history surrounding it (I was actually quite surprised when I read it was one of the "greatest albums of all time"), and Sloop John B didn't sound out of place at all to me. It has the same sound as the rest of the album, and coming after Let's Go Away For Awhile (regardless of what the it is supposed to mean) makes sense, if you think about it. SJB doesn't disrupt the flow, because the instrumental winds things down, only for Sloop John B to re-energize everything, you know? And I've always thought the intro to God Only Knows sounds sort of nautical anyway.

[Andreas]

Wow, I am very glad about this thread. Finally, the beauty of Sloop John B. is acknowledged.

I have converted three people to Beach Boys fans so far, and in two cases, playing Sloop John B.and making them aware of the delicate production and vocal arrangements was the key.

[Joshilyn Hoisington]

For the first several listens I had of Pet Sounds, I had no idea that Sloop John B was not by Brian Wilson, since I was listening off a tape of a needle-drop and had no song credits.  For those first listens, I thought that Sloop was the essence of the whole album boiled into one song.  O to have those first glorious listening experiences again.  I still think Sloop John is a great exemplar of what Pet Sounds is, musically.

[JRauch]

"Lindsey Buckingham observed in Rolling Stone years ago (1989?) that Brian's melodies always said something more profound than any lyrics could ever say- they expressed something that couldn't be articulated."

Like Van Dyke said to Brian: "The feelings are in your music."

[jazzfascist]

I've never been crazy about it. It reminded me somewhat of Glen Campbells "Rhinestone Cowboy" when I first heard it, a song I don't particularly like. Later I found it was identical with a song called "Jag Hade Engang En Båt" by a swedish singer called Cornelis Vreeswijk, which is very well known in Scandinavia. I think his version, which was also released in 1966, must be closer to the Kingston Trio's, it's simpler and more relaxed, better in my opinion. SJB is really just a three chord folk song and I don't think Brian's big orchestration suits it, something is lost, but of course it's now associated with "Pet Sounds" and that somewhat reflects on the song. According to the PS booklet they actually recorded an acoustic version in 65, wonder what that sounded like.

Søren

[Ron]

As for the 'even Brian's sad songs have a thread of happiness" the biggest example of that that I've been keyed in on revolves around 'Love and Mercy'.  On the original, there was this great harmony acapella or almost acapella part, ended with Brian's happy 'Hey ay!" back into the chorus.

I always thought that was so great that even in the middle of this pretty, beautiful, sad song, you have Brian yelling "Hey ay!" and sounding so happy... or at least TRYING to sound so happy.  I always thought that was very strange and beautiful.

Now, a huge moment for me in my fandom was when on the SMiLE concerts, Brian ended every show with that song, but a more simplified version of it without the acapella bridge part.  Also, no "Hey ay!".  He did this for years to end the concert, and you hear it on the bootlegs over and over again, several versions of the same stripped down song.

Of course in late '04, the Tsunami hit and his celloist Marcus died in the disaster.  This I'm sure had a hugely negative effect on Brian, but he got through it... after an appeal on Larry King Live for instance.  According to Brian he even sent his manager to Tailand to try and find Marcus in the millions and millions of people in that country.  Now I know that's something that never would have been successful, but I assume it's all Brian knew to do.  Going on Larry King wasn't really going to help anything either, but again Brian was just trying to do SOMETHING.

Anyways, around comes that Tsunami benefit concert.  Brian performs "Love and Mercy".  Lights come up, Brian's sitting on stage, on a stool, with no keyboard security blanket for the first time in years and years, right? Taylor's sitting beside him on a stool on one side, Jeff's sitting beside him on a stool on the other side.  They proceed to sing one of the most beautiful versions of that song I've ever heard, and then stunningly break into the acapella bridge.  End of the bridge, Brian, Taylor, and Jeff all in unison go "Hey ay!" and then break into the chorus to end the song.

Highlight of his live career for me, because like you said, there you have the tinge of happiness in a sad song, purposefully done in honor of a deceased loved one. 

[Rocker]

I think the Beach Boys' version of "Sloop" kicks ass! Unbelieveable arrangement and singing.
BTW anyone heard Lonnie Donegans version of it called "I wanna go home"? Beautiful and quite melancholy. So it kinda would fit on Pet Sounds feeling-wise

[JRauch]

Beautiful post, Ron. Couldn´t agree more.

[SMiLEY]

I've never been crazy about it. It reminded me somewhat of Glen Campbells "Rhinestone Cowboy" when I first heard it, a song I don't particularly like. Later I found it was identical with a song called "Jag Hade Engang En Båt" by a swedish singer called Cornelis Vreeswijk, which is very well known in Scandinavia. I think his version, which was also released in 1966, must be closer to the Kingston Trio's, it's simpler and more relaxed, better in my opinion. SJB is really just a three chord folk song and I don't think Brian's big orchestration suits it, something is lost, but of course it's now associated with "Pet Sounds" and that somewhat reflects on the song. According to the PS booklet they actually recorded an acoustic version in 65, wonder what that sounded like.

Søren

Sloop John B sounds like Rhinestone Cowboy? Yeah right, and God Only Knows sounds like wipeout. 

[Jeff Mason]

Obviously the productions don't sound alike, but I am trying to imagine -- take Al on piano in Endless Harmony playing SJB at the opening and imagine him playing Rhinestone Cowboy the same way.  I think that the chords and chord changes are actually similar.  I sort of see his point, however, the production of SJB is simply amazing.

[jazzfascist]

I've never been crazy about it. It reminded me somewhat of Glen Campbells "Rhinestone Cowboy" when I first heard it, a song I don't particularly like. Later I found it was identical with a song called "Jag Hade Engang En Båt" by a swedish singer called Cornelis Vreeswijk, which is very well known in Scandinavia. I think his version, which was also released in 1966, must be closer to the Kingston Trio's, it's simpler and more relaxed, better in my opinion. SJB is really just a three chord folk song and I don't think Brian's big orchestration suits it, something is lost, but of course it's now associated with "Pet Sounds" and that somewhat reflects on the song. According to the PS booklet they actually recorded an acoustic version in 65, wonder what that sounded like.

Søren

Sloop John B sounds like Rhinestone Cowboy? Yeah right, and God Only Knows sounds like wipeout. 

I didn't say they were completely similar, just that RC reminded me of SJB. It's particularly the beginning. If you listen to the rhytmic acccents, they're almost the same. If you try to compare  "I've been walking these streets so long" with  "We come on the Sloop John B" it not's the exact same melody, but rhytmically it's phrased the same way, it also goes for the next line, but from there they start to diverge. However for me at least, those similar beginnings makes the songs remind me of each other.

Søren

[buddhahat]

And I've always thought the intro to God Only Knows sounds sort of nautical anyway.

I completely agree - I find a lot of Brian's music from this era sounds of the sea in some way. I remember listening to the backing tracks on the PS Box and the overwhelming impression it gave me was of the ocean - either sailing on it or, through some of the weird percussive things and echo effects, a sense of being underwater (especially Caroline, No). This idea fascinates me as, in the Elements, Brian would supposedly go on to try to capture the essence of natural things in his music. I think this is why a lot of his music from this time is so powerful for me. It just makes you feel like you're outside either in the sunshine, or in an ocean breeze, or in a forest. It's great to listen to Smile stuff out in the countryside!

I'm sure somebody used a phrase like psychedelic sea-shanty to describe God Only Knows, but I might be mixing this up. Anyway, I agree that SJB fits because it's nautical!

[JRauch]

"I completely agree - I find a lot of Brian's music from this era sounds of the sea in some way."

And he finally perfected it with the Water Chant. It´s an incredible talent to take a bunch of voices and make them actually sound like water.

[Evenreven]

Later I found it was identical with a song called "Jag Hade Engang En Båt" by a swedish singer called Cornelis Vreeswijk, which is very well known in Scandinavia. I think his version, which was also released in 1966, must be closer to the Kingston Trio's, it's simpler and more relaxed, better in my opinion.

I love Cornelis, but that must be my least favourite song of his. I think it's horrible. Brian's arrangement takes the song to a new place, and I think that was a good thing.

[NC]

Sloop John B features the best bass line in rock music. I think it's the best example of Brian putting the bass on other notes of the chord rather than the tonic.



 

[SMiLEY]

I just want to chime in and say this has turned into a very good thread! I love the fact that the SJB bashers are, for once, in the minority. It fits it's spot on PS to a T!!! Fact!!!

[jazzfascist]

Later I found it was identical with a song called "Jag Hade Engang En Båt" by a swedish singer called Cornelis Vreeswijk, which is very well known in Scandinavia. I think his version, which was also released in 1966, must be closer to the Kingston Trio's, it's simpler and more relaxed, better in my opinion.

I love Cornelis, but that must be my least favourite song of his. I think it's horrible. Brian's arrangement takes the song to a new place, and I think that was a good thing.

I don't think it's one of his best songs either, I just like his version better than BB's, simpler and more catchy, maybe because that's the version I heard first.

Søren

[DUMB ANGEL]

Brian could have left caroline no off of Pet Sounds and it wouldn't of bothered me one bit.

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

Brian could have left caroline no off of Pet Sounds and it wouldn't of bothered me one bit.

 

[I. Spaceman]

That's why they call him dumb! 

[Jason]

We have an awfully large number of trolls on the board...what happened to that one guy with the long-ass name?