Who's Idea was it to put Sloop John B on PS--Brian's or Capitol's?

[nosticker]

I've heard various viewpoints on this.  Is there anything definitive? 



Dan

[I. Spaceman]

Brian's. It was on his written tracklist for a working order.

[Ron]

... and in my opinion, it's a huge injustice to insinuate (not that you were!) that Sloop John B is inferior to the rest of the album.  That track is nothing short of a masterpiece, and one of Brian's very best productions, again, in my opinion.  Capitol or anyone would be crazy not to want that song on the album. 

[I. Spaceman]

I totally agree.

[nosticker]

... and in my opinion, it's a huge injustice to insinuate (not that you were!) that Sloop John B is inferior to the rest of the album.  That track is nothing short of a masterpiece, and one of Brian's very best productions, again, in my opinion.  Capitol or anyone would be crazy not to want that song on the album. 

Uh, what? So why mention it?


Dan

[Reverend Joshua Sloane]

He didn't make the thread.

That's what I thought at first also.

[buddhahat]

Brian's. It was on his written tracklist for a working order.

Is this really a fact? It's great to know because SJB always jars a bit for me as I've read a few times that Brian didn't want it on the album.

[I. Spaceman]

Is this really a fact?

YES!

[Jason]

Is this really a fact? It's great to know because SJB always jars a bit for me as I've read a few times that Brian didn't want it on the album.

Are you doubting Ian? Ohhhhhhh boy. Blood will run in the streets, man.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

Brad Elliot, in the notes to the '99 reissue of Pet Sounds uncovers a Pet Sounds track list  (in Brian's handwriting) from February (?) '66 with Sloop- prior to not only it's release as a single, but prior to Caroline, No's 45 release, lending creedence to the "Brian did want it on the album" theory.

[Jason]

Yeah, that Brad Elliott doesn't know sh*t from f***. 

Brian NEVER wanted it on the album! Never! Blasphemy! Danger Will Robinson, danger!



































Kidding.

[I. Spaceman]

Is this really a fact? It's great to know because SJB always jars a bit for me as I've read a few times that Brian didn't want it on the album.

Are you doubting Ian? Ohhhhhhh boy. Blood will run in the streets, man.

Oh, come on now. I am love. 70's women...come to me.
Thanks for the direct quote, Rob.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

Yeah, that Brad Elliott doesn't know merda from foda. 

Well, I'm sure you could take that up with Brad.










Just be sure to pick a number, though.......

[Jason]

Well, I'm sure you could take that up with Brad.










Just be sure to pick a number, though.......

I was kidding. Brad knows his sh*t. I was just being an ass.

[RobtheNobleSurfer]

Me too. 

[Ron]

... and in my opinion, it's a huge injustice to insinuate (not that you were!) that Sloop John B is inferior to the rest of the album.  That track is nothing short of a masterpiece, and one of Brian's very best productions, again, in my opinion.  Capitol or anyone would be crazy not to want that song on the album. 

Uh, what? So why mention it?


Dan

Dan, I don't understand what you're asking. 

[nosticker]

I'm confused.  I asked a simple question, and then there was this thing about insinuation.  There was none......so why even mention it?


Dan

[Ron]

oh, gotcha.  I'll explain, then.

People never ask "Who put 'I just wasn't made for these times' on Pet Sounds?  Was it Brian, or Capitol?"  because 'I just wasn't made for these times' is considered artistic enough that everyone assumes it must have been Brian, the genius, who put it on the album.

Whenever someone suggests that Capitol insisted "Sloop John B" was put on the album, it usually comes with the insinuation that Brian wouldn't choose to put that song on his masterpiece, Pet Sounds, because it's not artistic enough.  There's no reason Brian wouldn't put the song on the album... so to say that Capitol requested it implies that Brian didn't want it on the album, usually the argument is that the song doesn't fit the mood or the 'story' of the album, or blah blah blah.

... but you already knew all that you just wanted to play innocent.

[Matinee Idyll]

Personally, I feel the track does f*** up the flow of the album... And I don't think it sits at all well between two such beautiful tracks.

I don't care if it is a bonza production, I don't feel it works.

[nosticker]

Whenever someone suggests that Capitol insisted "Sloop John B" was put on the album, it usually comes with the insinuation that Brian wouldn't choose to put that song on his masterpiece, Pet Sounds, because it's not artistic enough. 

Well.....ok.  "Usually" is the operative word here.  Read my original post again.  There was no hidden agenda.  I happen to love SJB, and I couldn't imagine PS without it.  And I didn't suggest anything.  I asked a question.


Dan

[Andrew G. Doe]

Memo was dated circa 2/23/66. Tracks listed were:

Wouldn't It Be Nice
Caroline, No
Good, Good, Good Vibrations [sic]
You Still Believe In Ne
That's Not Me
Hang On To Your Ego
Sloop John B
The Old Man And The Baby (=  Let's Go Away For A While}
Don't Talk...
I Just Wasn't Made...

... and two others, as yet untitled, one an instrumental. Interesting that "GGGV" was slated for inclusion five days after the very first session.

[Andreas]

Here is an excerpt from Brad Elliott's Pet Sounds 1999 liner notes:

Already, a definite conception of the Pet Sounds album was forming in Brian's mind. Around Feb. 23, he provided Capitol a list of 10 tracks that would form the core of the album -- Wouldn't It Be Nice, Caroline No, Good Vibrations, You Still Believe In Me, That's Not Me, Hang On To Your Ego, Sloop John B, The Old Man And The Baby, Don't Talk (Put Your Head On My Shoulder) and I Just Wasn't Made For These Times. He indicated two more selections would be added to the album -- one an instrumental, the other an as-yet-untitled vocal track.

The inclusion of Sloop John B in the early track listing is significant because it has long been rumored that Brian was forced, against his wishes, to include the song -- a #3 hit -- on the album. But in late February, Sloop John B was still a month away from release as a single. Neither Capitol nor Brian could have had any idea how successful it might be. The track listing proves the inclusion of Sloop John B on Pet Sounds was strictly Brian's choice.

There are a few problems with that, however.
1. Mark Linett has stated numerous times that they dumped these liner notes for the 2001 Pet Sounds release because it contained so many inaccuracies. (He never stated any details, however.)
2. Al Jardine has said in an interview from 2003 that (paraphrased) Capitol forced the song onto the album. We have discussed this interview on the Smile Shop board. Does anyone remember?

[Andreas]

Read my original post again.  There was no hidden agenda.  I happen to love SJB, and I couldn't imagine PS without it.  And I didn't suggest anything.  I asked a question.
Dan

Dan,

I think Ron did not aim the remark at you, but at a general trend that seems to find Sloop John B,. unfitting on the album.
See this thread, for example: http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=71466

[PMcC]

.....a guy asks a question, and all of the 'scholars' jump down his throat.............

[I. Spaceman]

It was totally and completely relevant to the topic. Grow some foda skin, people.