BB relationships from 80s til today

[mikeyj]

I'm gonna chime in here and just say I personally have no desire for a re-union. I mean Mike+Bruce appear to be relatively happy doing their thing which is fine. But Brian has always been the one that MOST people are interested in musically and as a person. I just think it's great to see Brian receiving so much recognition as an individual, something which I don't think would've happened to the same extent if he was still totally involved as a Beach Boy for all those years. Whether or not these honors mean anything to anyone here is another issue but if you look at it, atleast Brian is being recognised by the public for his achievements. I mean he has been highly praised for his live performances (in particular Pet Sounds & SMiLE). There were two tribute concerts to him. He brought out BWPS which was highly acclaimed (regardless of if you like it or not - and atleast it's out there), he won his first ever Grammy award from that. He also has brought out plenty of other material (including albums and songs on various compilations/soundtracks etc..) which I doubt he would've done to the same extent if he was still a Beach Boy (how much material have they brought out from 1990 onwards? Very little). Even if some of that material is average, still SOME Brian material is better than NO Brian material. Brian just seems to me to be the only one who is still fairly creative. He was inducted into the UK songwriters hall of fame, and of course the recent Kennedy Centre honors too. There is heaps of other honours that he has received that I can't think of as well. Maby some of these things MIGHT have happened if he was still a Beach Boy, but it seems that Brian is going through a lot of positive things in his life in the moment (atleast in terms of what I was just saying) so I don't see the need for a reunion. Sometimes you have to move on, friends don't always stick together, they move on. I mean can you imagine if Brian+Mike+Bruce+Al+Dave got together for a reunion album but then even more tension broke out? What would be the purpose of that? I'm not saying it WOULD happen, but to be honest, it seems to me (and this is all from a fans point of view of course - I don't actually know) that Mike+Brian haven't been on the best of terms since 64/65. I mean that to me seemed when they were really buddies but after that it wasn't the same. I just say if Brian is happy and Mike+Bruce are happy and Al is happy and Dave is happy, then I just say they should just keep doing whatever they are doing. Of course if they are all dieing to have a reunion, then I think they should for sure, if that's what they want. But I just doubt anyone REALLY wants a reunion

I know Sheriff that you are saying those things from a fans point of view and I understand that view. I mean you have been around a lot longer than me, so you remember the days of The Beach Boys as a creative force, but I don't and I just see Brian doing really well which I'm happy about considering all the crap he went through.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I know Sheriff that you are saying those things from a fans point of view and I understand that view. I mean you have been around a lot longer than me, so you remember the days of The Beach Boys as a creative force, but I don't...

Hey, are you saying I'm old?

Just kidding. Good post!

[Pretty Funky]

This 'reunion' subject is also getting discussed on the BBBrit site.
Bruce has said he would enjoy a one-off PBS charity type gig but no to a tour. He feels it would not earn enough to make it viable and I would agree with that.

My thoughts on the subject.

I think the band ended years ago so no new album for me thanks. If they could not make a great album 30 years ago, what chance would they have now. One Beach Boy (Mike) looking for a label for his work is bad enough. To have a album by THE BEACH BOYS begging for any taker, or website sales only, would be degrading.

You want a reunion? Have a lock-in at Al's Big Sur studio with a camera crew for a warts-and-all no holds barred, clear the air show-down. In between plenty of memories of the good times and bad. Lots of instruments close at hand for whatever happens. At 5pm its down to the beach around the campfire with guitars, families, beer and hotdogs. Film it all.
July 4th concert at the Hollywood Bowl. One night only. Lots of hits with some Big Sur highlights/ lowlights on the big screen behind in between songs. A few guest singers to ease onstage tension.

All realeased as DVD for Christmas market. One disc of concert. The other Big Sur get-together. Profits to same charity as concert.

Aint gonna happen. Don't care either way.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I think Mike, Al, Bruce, and David (?) would more than welcome Brian's musical "abilities". I think they have a great appreciation for his talents.

I think there is a long history to suggest that they don't always appreciate the good music of Brian Wilson. In 66 the group was complaining about Pet Sounds and Smile. In 71, he had to fight to put Til I Die on Surfs Up. In the late 70s he couldn't get songs like Still I Dream of It or Its Over Now on an album. And they were not happy about the Smile album being released.

When I say 'they', it is mostly Mike.

I think that Brian's will can be effected by those around him. If he is surrounded by artistically minded people, then he wants to be artistic. If he is surrounded by nestolgia, then he wants to be nestolgic.

In other words, I don't think he would've ever done Smile on his own. The band around him encouraged him to get it done. On the Beautiful Dreamer dvd, they talked about Brian suddenly playing Heroes and Villains on the piano. Everyone around him was excited! If his surroundings were not so positive about it, then I don't think Brian would've had the strength to finish it.

This is all theory based on what I've seen, heard and read. Not fact.

[Aegir]

Smile is pretty nostalgic, wouldn't you say?

[Mahalo]

Smile is pretty nostalgic, wouldn't you say?

no.

[MBE]

I think Mike, Al, Bruce, and David (?) would more than welcome Brian's musical "abilities". I think they have a great appreciation for his talents.

I think there is a long history to suggest that they don't always appreciate the good music of Brian Wilson. In 66 the group was complaining about Pet Sounds and Smile. In 71, he had to fight to put Til I Die on Surfs Up. In the late 70s he couldn't get songs like Still I Dream of It or Its Over Now on an album. And they were not happy about the Smile album being released.

Well Mike rarely (except for perhaps the Big Band songs) complained about the music, he just wanted (rightly or wrongly) to be the lyric writer. The Til I Die thing was only mentioned in Brian's so called book and hinted at vaguely in Leaf's so I don't really think much of that. Afterall Mike and Bruce have done it live. Mike said he wished he and the other Beach Boys were on Smile mainly because of the hard work he and the others did do in 1966-67. Whatever else you can say about the 66-67 era the Beach Boys including Mike worked hard on those vocal sessions doing a great job.

Why haven't Brian and Mike been able to work together regularly since 1980 is largely down to the political situation around them. To me when they are together I still see a strong hint of their former friendship. I think all of the problems Brian had within the group since 1983 were created mainly by those outside the group. Brian wasn't always a victim of some big bad Mike Love agenda, and I am sure his drug use and the results stemming from it hurt the other Beach Boys as much as he was hurt by them. A vicious circle perhaps. I am not naive, Brian's interest in the group has waxed and waned . Sometimes he seemed to want to be a full time member, other times he didn't want to do anything but it seems to have been his choice before Landy stepped in. I think that since 1975 he hasn't run his own show and maybe can't. Ironically in 1976 Landy pushed him into being a group member. After Gene was fired the first time it seems that he lost some interest (most apparent on stage) but at the same time he seemed to be clinging to the group at the time not knowing what else to do. In 1983 he seemed revitalised but after Dennis died (and even more so after the group told Gene that Melcher instead of the Landy/Brian team would be running the recordings) he gradually did less and less. After Landy we have a brief resurgence and then Carl died. You really cannot say the the end of the Was deal ended Brian's interest because S&S was after that as were the 1996 concerts and the remake of Fun, Fun, Fun. After Carl died perhaps Brian genuinely felt that the group was done and while I don't blame him, it just seems to be that things would be better if Brian wasn't so suggestable.

Now I don't blame Brian's team completely, Al did get a raw deal at the hands of BRI, and I have also said many times that outside of his legitimate claim for writing credits Mike should stay out of court. But notice that through the whole thing it seems that no longer face to face talk things out without lawyer's. That says a lot and nobodies hands (except Dave's) are completely clean. The point is people who knew them back in the sixties and early seventies think that if there were no lawyers, wives, or flunkies around, they might be able to talk things out.  I am not saying I think this means they should record or tour, but as a family I think they should try to mend fences.

[mikeyj]

The Til I Die thing was only mentioned in Brian's so called book and hinted at vaguely in Leaf's so I don't really think much of that.

Yeah even though I'm not Mike's biggest fan, he does seem to get the rough end of the stick at times. People always make up stories about him. I'm not sure if it was in Brian's autobiography or not, but I remember reading that Mike was the one who opposed to Til I Die, and that Brian had recorded a 4 minute version (eg: I'm assuming the "Desper mix" is what was being referred to) but Mike made sure that the song was cut down to a shorter length because he was against the song. And then of course Brian didn't even do that mix, and Desper himself has stated (correct me if I'm wrong - I don't want to lie about what he said) something about how he showed the band the mix but they preferred the version that ended up on Surf's Up.

I am not saying I think this means they should record or tour, but as a family I think they should try to mend fences.

Agreed. I think it would be nice if they could atleast be on talking terms and mend the relationship BUT as you say, I don't care if they record/tour or not.

[Dancing Bear]

I think it was Desper who told this version of what happened. Let me try: Brian wrote the "Till I Die" we all know and love. When he showed it to the group, Mike voiced his opinion that the lyrics were "a downer". Brian rewrote them to sound more positive, but at the end went back to the original version. And Mike is very prominent at the tag. Desper mix was just something he did on his own.

I think sometimes we make a big deal of stuff that just happens when musicians are part of a group.

[Amy B.]

When I think of Brian and Mike, I think of a divorced couple that was married for a long, long time. When they get together there's a glimmer of the old magic, and people think, "Wow, maybe they belong together again. Maybe all those issues can be put behind them." But if they spend enough time together, the tensions start creeping up again, and the magic really isn't there anymore.

[MBE]

Amy that may well be the case, but I don't think they have had the chance to spend any real time together in over ten years.

[carl r]

There are good reasons why they should not hang out.

Here's one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gt0LBlH3dAc

(aka "the frog chorus" with tits)

[razorboy]

part of me is curious to see if they've all learned some lessons over the years and could marshal resources into making really worthy beach boys music, but at the end of the day, with no carl and no dennis, it isn't the beach boys. there are so many potholes in that road, and so few possible rewards at the end of it. brian is my main concern, and all appears to be well, or as well as it can be, with him. creatively, there are pros and cons with all of brian's collaborators, but i'm holding out great hope for TLOS, based on the live presentation. it seems to me that it could be his best true solo album, post BB.

i may be called a hater for this, but i'm actually more of a bruce johnston detractor than a mike love detractor... mike, regardless of some of his shady opinions and actions, has contributed greatly to the beach boys story, with and without brian... the quality of some of those contributions, well, that's up to personal tastes. i feel like bruce johnston is simply a politician who has sided up with the right people at the right times to remain in the beach boys team photo, and has nothing to offer the band creatively. i've always lifted the proverbial leg on his songs, which stick out like syrupy, sugary sore thumbs amongst the other band members' tracks, in my opinion. he doesn't belong anywhere near any imagined beach boys reunion, and when you're plugging in bruce, but don't have the balance of carl or dennis, that's a wrong turn.

but you know he would be one of the prime movers, and that's an indication it should probably be left alone... mike and bruce can do their thing. no one is depriving them of the right to tour as "the beach boys". i do wish al and david could be part of something permanent or a larger collective, but they aren't shy of work or love from the BB community. as for brian, he is, as some others have pointed out, gaining some respect and recognition at this point in his life that i'm not so sure would have come his way if he were still tied in with mike and the baywatch band, whether that is right or wrong. a lot of people in the industry have a negative opinion of mike love, some well-earned, some not. for everything he and brian could offer each other, i have the feeling that it would eventually degenerate into past mike-brian stuff, which has been a sore point for the better part of the last 40 years, so why open that contentious wound again? i'm not sure any end would justify the means in terms of quality or trouble.

any actual product would likely receive bottom-drawer treatment... the record industry isn't exactly a boomtown these days... i can see "walmart exclusive" all over it (apologies to any eagles fans). all i'm saying is that a reunion would be flying in the face of good sense and history... they should leave it alone. if relationships could be repaired, that would be gratifying to fans, i guess, but what are the odds of people changing the essence of who they are? when a person behaves a certain way consistently for 60 years, is it reasonable to expect them to all of a sudden embrace the better angels of their character and step in for a group hug?

[Alex]

Personally, if there were ever to be a BB reunion (highly unlikely), that Mike and Bruce should not be involved. I think it should be Brian, Al, and Dave, with the possibility of including Blondie Chaplin and Ricky Fataar (who IMO, along with manager Jack Reiley, should've never left the group). Maybe even getting Daryl Dragon, Billy Hinche, Bobby Figeroa, Carli Munoz, Dennis Dragon, Ed Carter, plus all of the other various sidemen from the early 70s as a backing band would be pretty cool. Why they didn't keep going in the direction they were when they did CATP and Holland is beyond me. Well, actually I know why: money and screaming throngs of oldies fans. But they should've kept going in the direction they went on Holland anyway, its no wonder both Dennis and Carl left the group. I think Pacific Ocean Blue is the true follow-up to Holland. Mostly everything after that (minus Bamboo, a couple songs from 15BO, Half the songs on Love You, Adult Child, a couple songs on Carl's solo albums, Brians's solo career, and Where I Belong from BB 85) was a big steaming pile of crap, in my opinion.

[Sheriff John Stone]

You want a reunion? Have a lock-in at Al's Big Sir studio with a camera crew for a warts-and-all no holds barred, clear the air show-down. In between plenty of memories of the good times and bad. Lots of instruments close at hand for whatever happens. At 5pm its down to the beach around the campfire with guitars, families, beer and hotdogs. Film it all.
July 4th concert at the Hollywood Bowl. One night only. Lots of hits with some Big Sir highlights/ lowlights on the big screen behind in between songs. A few guest singers to ease onstage tension.

All realeased as DVD for Christmas market. One disc of concert. The other Big Sir get-together.

That'd make a great documentary! Martin Scorsese, are you out there?

[Magic Transistor Radio]

There are good reasons why they should not hang out.

Here's one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gt0LBlH3dAc

(aka "the frog chorus" with tits)

Well, there are two smart Beach Boys. Carl and Al. They weren't in this video. Ok, Carl's picture appeared on a surf board.

[the captain]

There are good reasons why they should not hang out.

Here's one:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=gt0LBlH3dAc

(aka "the frog chorus" with tits)

Everything after KTSA--and arguably KTSA, too--the Beach Boys ever released was more offensive than Wipeout.

[Aegir]

Does that include Wipeout?

[the captain]

Everything else. Obviously Wipeout fits into that time frame. I assumed my point was clear.

[Aegir]

So what you're saying is that Wipeout is more offensive than Wipeout?

[the captain]

ALL EDITED OUT due to me reading sarcasm where there was none.

[Aegir]

Sorry? I actually didn't understand the "everything else" part as meaning "not Wipeout". Otherwise I would've let it go then.

[the captain]

Really? OK. My mistake, and I apologize.

[the captain]

Re Wipeout, btw, I honestly think it beats the hell out of anything else the BBs were doing at the time. Silly, sure, but fun. And not really bad, especially as a guest contribution to a (then relatively new to most of America) rap song.

[Wirestone]

I think Brian and Mike do have a relationship they should work on. But not necessarily music. Brian has always worked with multiple people. Mike has always needed Brian to do his best. Thus, Mike has always been jealous of others who want to work with him.

But as cousins, and friends, and bandmates, I think BW and ML have a lot in common. The magic, the spark, is still there. But it's the magic and spark of family -- not top-10 recording artists. They should work on that and let the music take care of itself.