BB relationships from 80s til today

[Wirestone]

SJS -- Brian and Melinda were together by 1994, if not slightly before. They married in 1995. Brian's renewed activity with the Beach Boys was in 94 - 96 -- precisely when he was dating, marrying, and living with Melinda. It seems just as likely that she pushed him toward being involved with the group -- and I recall interviews in which she talked up Brian's relationship with Mike.

What did happen however, was that Brian decided to work on a solo record with Joe Thomas (flowing straight out of the Stars and Stripes sessions) and then Carl died. That was truly the breaking point.

[Magic Transistor Radio]

I would imagine that Carl and Al would have wanted Brian's inculsion more the Mike and Bruce. I wonder if this may have added to Mike and Al's falling out.

Hey, Mike's idea of heaven is being in the Beach Boys in 1965, when everything made sense. That included Brian as a songwriting partner and best friend.

I was just throwing that out. I have no idea if there is any truth at all. I imagine that Carl's death is the main reason Brian doesn't want to be a BB anymore. I am willing to bet that if Carl was alive and well, Brian would still be involved with them. But then again, I have no idea.

[MBE]

Read some of Brian's Mojo interviess or the Uncut expose. Melinda was not a Beach Boys backer and him asking her if he will work with them again in the Stebbins doc says it all. Of course I think if Carl was here they never would have broken completely up.

[Peter Ames Carlin]

I think it's a mistake to blame Melinda for Brian's decisions. As with virtually all of his significant relationships -- see also: Landy; Murry; Mike Love; Marilyn, albeit to a lesser extent -- Brian allows the other to serve in an exoskeleton/bad cop type of role. If Brian did or does want to work with the Boys, he'd do it. But he's been ambivalent, at best, about it since, oh, 1966 or so. And I bet their chilly reaction to his mid-90s songs and his offer to write/produce an album as per the old days pretty much sealed the deal. Carl's death obviously made it even more obvious....but still.

And don't be fooled by the "What am I supposed to be doing?" type of public statements. Brian, for all his demons, remains a very strong and willful character who either doesn't do what he doesn't want to do, or enjoys being bossed around so much that doing what he doesn't want to do is exactly what feels right to him. "Sometimes I have a weird way of showing my love," he sang once. And guess what: He meant it.

[Amy B.]

Given what PAC just posted (and I feel like this conversation has been played out several times), isn't it possible that the scenario might play out like this:
Mike, at the rooftop event: Brian, wouldn't you like to work together again?
Brian, thinking "no" but not wanting to say it, quickly finds a scapegoat: Yes, I would, but Melinda says I shouldn't.

Mike, in an interview: Brian wants to work with the BBs again, but forces around him are keeping him from it.

It's not as if Brian is tethered to Melinda. He goes places without her, and seemingly without other "guardians" too. He has the freedom to do what he wants.
 

[Rocker]

Given what PAC just posted (and I feel like this conversation has been played out several times), isn't it possible that the scenario might play out like this:
Mike, at the rooftop event: Brian, wouldn't you like to work together again?
Brian, thinking "no" but not wanting to say it, quickly finds a scapegoat: Yes, I would, but Melinda says I shouldn't.

Mike, in an interview: Brian wants to work with the BBs again, but forces around him are keeping him from it.

It's not as if Brian is tethered to Melinda. He goes places without her, and seemingly without other "guardians" too. He has the freedom to do what he wants.
 

The story I heard was that Brian gave Mike a song to which he should write the words but Mike wanted to start from scratch.

[Aegir]

If I were Mike, I would've jumped on that and written the lyrics immediately.

[Pretty Funky]

Exactly!

Given a peace offering and throws it back. Nice.

[Sheriff John Stone]

SJS -- Brian and Melinda were together by 1994, if not slightly before. They married in 1995. Brian's renewed activity with the Beach Boys was in 94 - 96 -- precisely when he was dating, marrying, and living with Melinda. It seems just as likely that she pushed him toward being involved with the group -- and I recall interviews in which she talked up Brian's relationship with Mike.

I never said Melinda's influence was immediate. It easily could've taken a few years for Brian and Melinda's relationship to reach that point of trust, where Melinda would be able to discuss music and career with Brian - and influence him. And I don't mean that in a bad way. People assume because you disagree with Melinda, you're attacking her. I just disagree with some of her, shall we say, opinions.

And I don't limit it to Melinda. In my opinion, I don't think Brian was EVER strong enough to record a solo album, promote it, go on tour without the Beach Boys, and, in essence, have a solo career - WITHOUT someone influencing him, encouraging him, pushing him, and so forth. That's one reason (not the only reason, but one reason) why Brian didn't release SMiLE as a solo project. That person wasn't there.

But it was in the 1980's, in the person of Dr. Landy. No Landy = no BW88 solo album. Landy's gone and guess what? We have Brian back with the guys for the ill-fated Don Was sessions and Stars & Stripes. And, eventually, Melinda "assists" in Brian's music career. IMO, No Melinda = No Joe Thomas-produced Imagination. That next album would've been a Beach Boys' album. And the rest is history...

[Wilsonista]

I think it's a mistake to blame Melinda for Brian's decisions. As with virtually all of his significant relationships -- see also: Landy; Murry; Mike Love; Marilyn, albeit to a lesser extent -- Brian allows the other to serve in an exoskeleton/bad cop type of role. If Brian did or does want to work with the Boys, he'd do it. But he's been ambivalent, at best, about it since, oh, 1966 or so. And I bet their chilly reaction to his mid-90s songs and his offer to write/produce an album as per the old days pretty much sealed the deal. Carl's death obviously made it even more obvious....but still.

And don't be fooled by the "What am I supposed to be doing?" type of public statements. Brian, for all his demons, remains a very strong and willful character who either doesn't do what he doesn't want to do, or enjoys being bossed around so much that doing what he doesn't want to do is exactly what feels right to him. "Sometimes I have a weird way of showing my love," he sang once. And guess what: He meant it.

Peter, what is your take on Melinda? Is the audience too hard on her and her decisions?

[MBE]

Peter obviouslly you know them and I respect your take on their relationship, but Melinda does have her own opinions and some I disagree with. I cannot help but think that if she wanted Brian to work with the group he would have more seriously thought about it. Yet you are right I think he never made a major decision without being bossed around to some extent.  What motivates him and makes him tick is very interesting.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I cannot help but think that if she wanted Brian to work with the group he would have more seriously thought about it.

And THAT is the only issue that I am talking about. I am not questioning their (Brian and Melinda's) choice of record company, choice of producer, choice of musician friends (Darian, Jeff, et al), choice to hang out (or not) with Brian's family, choice to have a new family, choice of how many dogs to adopt. Just the choice to have a solo career. That's all.

If Melinda felt it was a good idea to re-group with Mike, Al, Bruce, and David, hang out at Al's barn, share some laughs, hopefully heal some old wounds, record a new Beach Boys' album, possible perform a concert - and "sold" the idea to Brian (in a good way), that he would say "nah"?

 

[the captain]

Landy's gone and guess what? We have Brian back with the guys for the ill-fated Don Was sessions and Stars & Stripes. And, eventually, Melinda "assists" in Brian's music career. IMO, No Melinda = No Joe Thomas-produced Imagination. That next album would've been a Beach Boys' album. And the rest is history...

Well, I don't think that's quite right. Stars & Stripes included Joe Thomas, too (and had the same horseshit sound in parts as Imagination).

[Sheriff John Stone]

Landy's gone and guess what? We have Brian back with the guys for the ill-fated Don Was sessions and Stars & Stripes. And, eventually, Melinda "assists" in Brian's music career. IMO, No Melinda = No Joe Thomas-produced Imagination. That next album would've been a Beach Boys' album. And the rest is history...

Well, I don't think that's quite right. Stars & Stripes included Joe Thomas, too (and had the same horsemerda sound in parts as Imagination).

No, Luther, I'm not questioning whether or not Joe Thomas would've been the producer of the next album - Beach Boys' album or not - just that it probably would've been a Beach Boys' album, and not the solo Imagination. Brian barely had enough material to fill a new album by himself, thus the covers (Keep An Eye On Summer, Let Him Run Wild, Sherry She Needs Me re-working, and the quasi-My Solution). But, as I re-read my post, I can see where my point could be misconstrued.

But, since you mentioned Joe Thomas, wasn't it Melinda who suggested Joe Thomas as producer of Imagination after she became close friends with Joe's wife, eventually moving to Chicago and becoming neighbors?

[the captain]

I see. I thought you were saying that she introduced Thomas to the equation, which, if she did, she did before S&S. I have heard that she was in favor of him for Imagination (as opposed to the Sean O'Hagan project), but I don't really know.

For my purposes, a Thomas-produced BBs album would've been just as bad as a Thomas-produced BW album anyway, so it makes little difference. If J. Thomas was involved, I am not interested. But had the Was-produced band project gone ahead, that would be different.

[Peter Ames Carlin]

I'm not sure if brian's solo career has been an uninterrupted pattern of good decisions, either. Some are more explicable than others, to be sure. But for my money Brian, and fans of BW music, are way better off when he's miles away from the surviving Beach Boys. Too much foul water under the bridge. Too little respect for his abilities. Think of it: If he had jumped back into the camp for good in the mid-90s would "Smile" be finished? Would his reputation/legacy be restored to where he is now? I haven't had a chance to really absorb "Lucky Old Sun" just yet, but it's obviously quite ambitious. And "Midnight's Another Day" takes my breath away. But do you think Mike and Bruce would ever sing on that song? I don't.

I wish the original Beach Boys were all alive and working, too. I wish they had continued on the path they tread through the late '60s and early '70s, and put more stock in their creativity than in their commerciality. But it didn't work out that way, did it? And now here we are, and on this earth there's no going back.

[Wilsonista]

I'm not sure if brian's solo career has been an uninterrupted pattern of good decisions, either. Some are more explicable than others, to be sure. But for my money Brian, and fans of BW music, are way better off when he's miles away from the surviving Beach Boys.

Amen.

[Amy B.]

I'm not sure if brian's solo career has been an uninterrupted pattern of good decisions, either. Some are more explicable than others, to be sure. But for my money Brian, and fans of BW music, are way better off when he's miles away from the surviving Beach Boys.

I agree. I don't know who made the decision to keep away from the Beach Boys, but whether it was Brian, Melinda, or whoever, I think it was a wise decision. I hope that one day Brian and Mike just get together and talk, as cousins should. But musically?  Brian is doing good stuff again, but what's on Mike's resume since he stopped working with Brian? As a team, they haven't done anything decent since . . .when? The early 80s, maybe? And as far as getting along and enjoying each other's company in a studio? When was the last time that happened?
It just sounds unpleasant all around.

[Wilsonista]

These guys don't need to be making music in order to reconcile.  In fact I think making music would probably ensure that reconcilation wouldn't happen.

[Mahalo]

We all know that without Mr. Positivity that Brian is too meloncholy.  


IMO, without Dennis and Carl, there are no Beach Boys. No disrespect to any of the surviving members, thats just how I perceive the situation.

[Sheriff John Stone]

Too much foul water under the bridge.

It would also provide an opportunity for the guys to heal those old wounds.

Too little respect for his abilities.

I think Mike, Al, Bruce, and David (?) would more than welcome Brian's musical "abilities". I think they have a great appreciation for his talents.

"Midnight's Another Day" takes my breath away. But do you think Mike and Bruce would ever sing on that song? I don't.

I do. This is precisely the quality and depth of song that fans - including Mike, Al, and Bruce - have been waiting decades for, including Carl Wilson before he passed. Do you think they were happy with "Shortenin' Bread"? If Brian would've ever submitted a song like this between 1976 - 1997, they'd sung on it.

And now here we are, and on this earth there's no going back.

Who's talking about going back? Dennis and Carl are gone. There is no going back. It can never be the same. What's wrong with trying a new mix? New chemistry? New ideas? New relationships?

Quite frankly, I don't have the energy right now to debate the merits (or lack of) of BWPS. That would take a new thread and it's been discussed ad nauseum. And probably will be again. And by me. Anyway, you are right. If Brian stayed in The Beach Boys, there would not have been BWPS. IMO, IMO, IMO, it would've been a shame to not have the live presentations of SMiLE; I'll admit that. But I will also say that it would've been better to not have the songs re-recorded into BWPS. Nuff said on that. Thanks for your post...

[Mahalo]

But I will also say that it would've been better to not have the songs re-recorded into BWPS.

Not trying to play dumb, but what do you mean by that??

[Dancing Bear]

"Midnight's Another Day" takes my breath away. But do you think Mike and Bruce would ever sing on that song? I don't.

I do. This is precisely the quality and depth of song that fans - including Mike, Al, and Bruce - have been waiting decades for, including Carl Wilson before he passed. Do you think they were happy with "Shortenin' Bread"? If Brian would've ever submitted a song like this between 1976 - 1997, they'd sung on it.

Hey, I understand if people have the opinion that Mike's voice is shot, that his touring group is a shade of former glories, that he has bad taste for stage clothes....

But Mike DID sing on "Still a Mistery" 12 years ago. Not really a formula song, right? Is "Midnight's Another Day" really that different?

[the captain]

...
It would also provide an opportunity for the guys to heal those old wounds.
...
I think Mike, Al, Bruce, and David (?) would more than welcome Brian's musical "abilities". I think they have a great appreciation for his talents.
...
I do. This is precisely the quality and depth of song that fans - including Mike, Al, and Bruce - have been waiting decades for, including Carl Wilson before he passed.

I disagree quite a bit with the BWPS part, too, but am skipping it for now. But as for all the above, I read that as a fan who wants a reconciliation through another album, a fan's dream. I don't see anything there that we have any reason to believe is based in fact. You want them working together to work to reconcile them; you think the survivors would want to work with him; and you think they'd have willingly participated in Midnight's Another Day.

But really .. Mike Love jumping on board with a Wilson/Bennett song? (Hell, a Wilson/Bennett album!) EVERYONE involved has had ample opportunities to get together to make music over the past, oh, 23 years since their last real, semi-legitimate studio album. If anyone were that interested, it would have happened ... three or four times already.

[Sheriff John Stone]

I disagree quite a bit with the BWPS part, too, but am skipping it for now. But as for all the above, I read that as a fan who wants a reconciliation through another album, a fan's dream. I don't see anything there that we have any reason to believe is based in fact. You want them working together to work to reconcile them; you think the survivors would want to work with him; and you think they'd have willingly participated in Midnight's Another Day.

But really .. Mike Love jumping on board with a Wilson/Bennett song? (Hell, a Wilson/Bennett album!) EVERYONE involved has had ample opportunities to get together to make music over the past, oh, 23 years since their last real, semi-legitimate studio album. If anyone were that interested, it would have happened ... three or four times already.

You're right, Luther. I don't deny it. It IS my opinion. My quote. That is what I want. I AM speaking as a fan. I'm a sentimental sap. I can't help it. But...

I also think the guys want it. I mean that. I watched the 1989 TV show with the guys sitting around that campfire, singing songs, laughing and joking around. I thoroughly enjoyed the Nashville Sounds documentary; the group appeared to be sincerely getting along, having fun recording together, and the TV appearances around the same time. It looked like Bruce enjoyed his participation with Brian in that 1997 Imagination mini-concert. I thought the atmosphere was positive a year or so ago when the group had that ceremony on the Capitol Records' rooftop. And, while I didn't see the shows live, I read great reports on the Brian/Al concerts last year, how they genuinely appeared to be enjoying each other on stage.

This is just my opinion, but I think, deep down inside, whether they will admit it or not - Mike, Al, Bruce, David, AND Brian - would like to do something together again. It's just a gut feeling I have. But, Luther, maybe you're right. Maybe my views are too clouded by my fandom.