The Definitive Vocal Credits Thread...

[Andrew G. Doe]

Has I Wasn't Made For These Times been discussed......if this has, please direct me towards the pg #, if not could someone please tell me the BV's???

brian on every voice. Noone else.

Not so -  there are seven vocal tracks on the Columbia tape: two of them are tagged 'vocal group', the other five are credited to 'Bryan'.

[Mahalo]

For "IJust Wasn't Made For These TImes"....

I don't know everything thats being said during the chorus....way in the back underneath the "sometimes, I feel very sad....." vocals, I hear something like..."could be I'm sad..."?Does anyone know what part I'm talking about, and if so the exact words being sung? So many melodies and words going on at that exact moment that it is difficult to pick them all out...

[Andrew G. Doe]

So many melodies and words going on at that exact moment that it is difficult to pick them all out...

That's where the Pet Sounds Session box comes up trumps. 

[John]

Carl and the Passions tomorrow it is. Mess of Help was "scheduled" as (double-tracked) Carl.
The plan is to go all the way up to Summer In Paradise, so I'd better get a shift on, now I've got a bit more time again.

[Mahalo]

Also on IJWMFTT there is the part that Brian sings, "People I, don't want to be..." does anybody have any insight about whether there is more  to that part that I'm not hearing....I just have never been able to figure that out...even with the PS box set.....but you are right AGD, it absolutely trumps!

[Ebb and Flow]

In IJWMFTT I think the BGV's over the "Each time things..." part and the aforementioned Spanish vocals are where the group is singing.  Everything else is Brian.

[Amy B.]

"Ain't found the right thing I can put my heart and soul into"
"People I know don't wanna be where I'm at"

[Mahalo]

thanx Amy....

what are the Spanish vocals?

This is news to me, and I've listened to this song steady for over a decade....

[pixletwin]

Right. I meant the main vocal is brian throughout (including the "Aint found the right thing..." and the "People I know don't wanna be where I'm at") the group vocal is on the "Un dia sere. Quando sere" part

[Mahalo]

the group vocal is on the "Un dia sere. Quando sere" part

Whats that mean???

[pixletwin]

"Quando sera. Un dia sera" means "When will it be? One day it will be"

[Andrew G. Doe]

Prominent bv on "Cuddle Up" - Toni Tennille.

"He Come Down" - the "down, down, down/to the glorious kingdom" sounds like Alan to me.

[I. Spaceman]

Amazing thread.

[tpesky]

Back to Just Wasn't Made for These Times for a sec.... seeing Brian and Al do this together in concert brought this song to new life for me, the way their voices blended together during the chorus and especially on the tag. It was by far one of the concert highlights .

That part in He Come Down definitely seems like Al to me as well

[John]

Agreed and added.

[adamghost]

I'm interested to hear everyone's thoughts on "Mess of Help."  The lead vocal to that is...curious.

I hear it as two Carls doubletracked, one in his harder rocking voice and the other in an exceptionally gritty voice, plus one Blondie.

Yeah, I've always heard it as two Carls as well.  But there's some odd things about this vocal.  I'm not advocating for changing the entry, but I want to throw a few things out there to consider:

(1)  The "rough" vocal is extremely random and sloppy for Carl.  I can't think of any other time in the whole history of the band that he did something like this.  Not just the quality of the voice, but the "hos!" and exclamations, the overstated nature of the vocal, the crap pitch.  That's very (post '67) Brian, very un-Carl.

(2)  In an interview at the time Mike Love said that "'Mess of Help' has [Brian's] harmonies with (or to, I don't remember) the vocal."  Granted, I think I hear him on the "she don't knows" and that's probably what he meant.  But he said harmonies to THE vocal, which implies the LEAD vocal. 

And listening carefully, here's a (3):  that rough vocal is in the left channel, and on close examination, there are TWO people singing on it, one further back in the mix.  They appear to be singing together; you can hear voice two react "yeah!" at :32, and they separate at "ring" and "sing" around 1:06.  You can clearly hear the vocals separate in the next line as well.

So who's the second voice?  To the extent I can pick it out, I agree with Emdeeh that it sounds most like Blondie.  But I think you could make a case that it might be Brian.   To me, the left channel vocal sounds like it was probably a one-pass demo vocal and the second, "clean" Carl vocal laid over that to smooth out the final recording.  You could see a scenario in the studio where they first record it and try to get Brian to sing it and Brian goes, "I can't sing it by myself.  Carl, you sing it with me" and then Brian goes into an exaggerated gruff voice which Carl then has to emulate to keep up.  Not only CAN Brian sing like that, I've seen him sing exactly like that (at a concert in 1981, deliberately sabotaging "Sloop John B"); also witness the 1977 Largo performance of "Back Home."  Granted, that was after the voice changed, but the playfulness, exaggeration and randomness of the vocal are very Brian-ish, even though the dominant vocal seems to be Carl.  And given that he cowrote the song, it's reasonable to expect that he'd be one of the people laying down a demo vocal.   Brian also has a long history of subtly manipulating people and/or putting them on, so it's not hard to imagine him trying to goad/force Carl into singing this way.

(Also while the pivotal year for Brian's voice changing was 1975, keep in mind that to some extent Brian's voice change seems to have been by design.  Even to this day if he chooses to place his voice differently, he can approximate though not duplicate his old vocal sound.  Similarly, there's some evidence that he was trying out a rougher voice elsewhere on CATP...listen to the "yeah, mmm, Lord" low part on "He Come Down"...whoever has that part sounds exactly like Brian on 15 BIG ONES)

Now mind you, I can offer a counter-scenario:  I've had it explained to me by people with more insight to the situation that in '72 Carl was trying to radically re-imagine the band, even to a greater degree than what he actually accomplished.  I could imagine Carl deliberately trying to pull off a hoedown kind of thing with the vocal, getting as far away from his sweet, textured vocals as possible, and enlisting Blondie to help him sing it and egg him on.  Even taking that into account though, for Carl, the whole thing is just very loose.

I don't know.  I can't identify that second voice.  It might be Blondie.  As I said, it's a curious vocal.

[MBE]

Sweet Mountin from Spring has Brian singing in a gruff and sweet voice. You Need A Mess is I think Carl though. He Come Down might be Brian on that part. You can hear Brian doing the ooh and ahhs during the verse of YNAMOH and he also does the doobie doos on Marcella. Carl and Brian can be heard on Cuddle Up too.

[Guy]

Which part of "All this is that" is sung by Alan?

[Andrew G. Doe]

Sweet Mountin from Spring has Brian singing in a gruff and sweet voice. You Need A Mess is I think Carl though. He Come Down might be Brian on that part. You can hear Brian doing the ooh and ahhs during the verse of YNAMOH and he also does the doobie doos on Marcella. Carl and Brian can be heard on Cuddle Up too.

Accprdong to Carl, Brian's only on "Marcella" on this album.

[John]

Which part of "All this is that" is sung by Alan?

I would say that the "Golden Auras glow around you" section, possibly in unison with Mike is Alan. Sounds like all Mike, but I don't think it is.

As for "Mess of Help", I think it's two Carls. It's Carl's idea of "hard rock" a la "Hold Me"  in my opinion.

[Emdeeh]

As for "Mess of Help", I think it's two Carls. It's Carl's idea of "hard rock" a la "Hold Me"  in my opinion.

Or possibly Carl's idea of "hard bluegrass"! 

(Gotta love that man -- he had a wicked great sense of humor.)

[signum]

This is an amazing thread.

I have been listening closely to "Mess of Help" and it is certainly Carl double tracked on the two channels because there are differences e.g. at 1:12 "stand" is on a different note.

But it is also true that there are two more voices mixed further back on the left channel. The exceptionally gritty voice may be by Brian and the fourth voice, which is not as gritty I think, sounds quite like Blondie. This fourth voice sings a harmony rather than singing approximately on the tune as the exceptionally gritty one does, and hits much higher notes particularly at the end of phrases. I notice them as separate particularly at 1:08 when the fourth voice sings a fourth above the other three: Carl, Carl and the gritty one.

[adamghost]

This is an amazing thread.

I have been listening closely to "Mess of Help" and it is certainly Carl double tracked on the two channels because there are differences e.g. at 1:12 "stand" is on a different note.

But it is also true that there are two more voices mixed further back on the left channel. The exceptionally gritty voice may be by Brian and the fourth voice, which is not as gritty I think, sounds quite like Blondie. This fourth voice sings a harmony rather than singing approximately on the tune as the exceptionally gritty one does, and hits much higher notes particularly at the end of phrases. I notice them as separate particularly at 1:08 when the fourth voice sings a fourth above the other three: Carl, Carl and the gritty one.

You hear three left channel voices?  Wow...you mean on "half alive"?  You could be right.  I can only make out two for certain, but there could be three.

Just so everyone's clear: the question isn't whether the main vocal is two Carls...we all agree that's the case...the question is who's singing along with Carl in the left channel.

Let's zero in on that channel a little more:
:10 -- a little chuckle -- clearly TWO (at least) gritty voices singing in unison here.
:14 -- Carl laughs a little
:23 -- "advancing" is so exaggerated as almost to be a joke
:30 -- On "can" you can make out the timbre of the other voice a little.  No idea who it is though.  Just afterwards someone yells "yeah!" in the background.
:47 -- vocal separates into harmony briefly on "cold of my winter"
:50 -- "burst of your raindrop" separates a little.
:51 -- someone goes "ho!" and vocal separates into harmony
1:04 and 1:06 -- second vocal separates and goes out "ring" and "sing"
1:10 -- vocals come apart on "alive".  This might be the part where Signum is hearing three voices...he might just be right, although it's hard to believe you wouldn't hear them before this.  I'm surprised the unison is as tight as it is in spots if it's two people singing along with each other.  (You'd expect, for example, the other voice to carry over on the "alone"s as Carl cuts them off very short)  This is also the one part where the other vocal sounds like it might be Blondie.
1:47 -- The "she don't knows."  I'm not sure the lead vocal track is featured here at all judging by how the vocals are panned overall.  Lots of voices crossing over here.  Definitely Carl and Mike.  The middle vocal that's mixed loudest is the one that sounds like Brian to me...in fact, the more I listen to it the more I think it's him.  The softer and rounder, more in the background descending semi-falsetto harmonies, I have no idea.  I believe there's two voices.  From a timbre standpoint, most likely Blondie, Ricky and/or Dennis (or an overdubbed Carl, just as likely).  But it's so quiet and so soft...who the heck knows.
2:20 -- The vocal comes apart at "smile," though significantly, it sounds like the same voice.  Background vocals here sound sped up.  Someone reacts with a gruff "yeah" here.
2:33 -- You can hear Carl in a clearer voice here and the other voice extremely gruff in a harmony.  This carries through the next line.
2:42-2:47 -- Gotta admit, it does sound like three voices here.  On "jive" you've got the clean Carl voice, the dirty voice, and someone shouting over top of that.  That just makes the whole thing all the more weird to me.

Very curious.  I have to say that as much as I like my own theory about Brian singing along with Carl and as much as it all makes logical sense to me and fits what we know, from close listening the person singing along with Carl and Carl sounds most like...Carl.  Again.  Judging by the various chuckles on the track it does sound like Carl is goofing around quite a bit and amusing himself greatly.  And it would explain why, for instance, you don't hear the other vocal hanging after Carl cuts some notes short, which I'd expect.  What really makes me think it's Carl again is the "smile" at 2:20.  It really does sound so close in delivery and tone that it's as if it was run through a delay.  It's possible to have that happen with two different vocalists, but it's more likely with one person singing the same part the same way twice out of time with themselves.

But then who's the THIRD voice, if there is one?  If it's Carl, why did he do THREE lead vocals, and pan the first two in the same channel?  Did Brian ever demo this one or sing a guide vocal, and if so, is it mixed way back?  Is that the third vocal?  I'd love to see the track sheet for this one.

Interesting Carl claimed Brian is only on "Marcella."  As I said, I remember the Mike Love quote...I believe it was in Byron Preiss' book.

[John]

Welcome and thanks, Signum!

Say, listen fellas,  going back a little bit, I amended the "All Summer Long" title track credits to  "Mike, featuring the Group on alternate lines" - while listening to it, I thought just "Mike" was just, well, inaccurate. Is everyone okay with that?

[tpesky]

Mess of Help has never been one of my favorite tunes, but this discussion is interesting! No one has mentioned Al at all in the mix, I am assuming he sang on the track so perhaps his voice may account for some of the harmonies in question?