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Author Topic: Sail On Sailor box set  (Read 32669 times)
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« Reply #225 on: December 09, 2022, 08:51:09 PM »

Forgive me if this has been answered: Is it Dennis singing the 'dom dom... king-dooom' part on 'Radio King Dom'? Really sounds like him. Have we had a whole break down on the Beach Boys that have played and or sang on the Fairy tale EP?
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« Reply #226 on: December 10, 2022, 02:29:26 AM »

Steamboat instrumental. Tears. Tears.



It's beautiful, isn't it? And the background vocals actually reminde me of Smile.
"Steamboat" seemed always be the perfect song for an album called "Holland" to me. When I think of Holland, I think of these boats floating along the canals.

I remember reading a review of Holland years ago on the internet. It was on a Beach Boys fansite, I believe, and I don't remember who wrote it. Actually it may have been a member of this board. Anyway, paraphrasing he understood "Steamboat"'s chorus ("Don't worry Mr. Fulton, we'll keep your steamboat goin'") as something like Dennis (and Carl) were singing to Brian and Brian was Mr. Fulton and the steamboat was the Beach Boys. Now, he didn't say it was written with that in mind, it was just his interpretation. But since reading it I can't get it out of my head when listening to the song. It's such a moving interpretation. So kudos to the unknown (to me) person who came up with that idea!




Forgive me if this has been answered: Is it Dennis singing the 'dom dom... king-dooom' part on 'Radio King Dom'? Really sounds like him. Have we had a whole break down on the Beach Boys that have played and or sang on the Fairy tale EP?



I wondered about that, too. I always thought it was Ricky (compare this with the tone of his singing voice and imagine this in double tracked) but it may very well be Blondie. If you listen to his singing on "Leaving this Town" you'll find that he's singing in a similar "clear" way compared to his more raucous style.
But I would definitely rule out Dennis.



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« Reply #227 on: December 10, 2022, 05:13:28 AM »

I remember reading a review of Holland years ago on the internet. It was on a Beach Boys fansite, I belive, and I don't remember who wrote it. Actually it may have been a member of this board. Anyway, paraphrasing he understood "Steamboat"'s chorus ("Don't worry Mr. Fulton, we'll keep your steamboat goin'") something like Dennis (and Carl) were singing to Brianand Brian was Mr. Fulton and the steamboat was the Beach Boys. Now, he didn't say it was written with that in mind, it was just his interpretation. But since reading it I can't get it out of my head when listening to the song. It's such a moving interpretation. So kudos to the unknown (to me) person who came up with that idea!

Wow, I agree. That's lovely!

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« Reply #228 on: December 10, 2022, 07:31:06 AM »

The only thing about this box set is the guitar solo on Don't Worry Bill.   It sounds awful compared to the bootleg version and the version that was on the Endless Harmony CD. Should have let it be.
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« Reply #229 on: December 11, 2022, 03:18:46 AM »

BTW is the picture on page 34 of Carnegie Hall actually from around the Beach Boys show? There is an advertisement for the show in the window but that could've been photoshopped as well.
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« Reply #230 on: December 11, 2022, 05:03:11 PM »

I’m listening right now on Spotify and it freaking says “Make it Good- Aternate Version”… that typo is driving me nuts!!!

Btw…after hearing the alternate Marcella it’s very clear now it’s Carl doing the Marcella Hey part on the tag… which seriously makes me wonder how I ended up with a snippet of Brian singing it in the first place. I had done an extraction mix on a version of Marcella I “acquired” from someone many of us knew (who has since passed)…not a bootleg, a copy of So Tough …I think it was a needle drop. Can’t remember as I no longer have my original Facebook account. Could there be a possibility that this could be a We Got Love/Holland situation where there was a mispressing, and somehow the wrong mix slipped under the radar for decades?

If anybody here downloaded it when I posted it all those years ago from RapidShare , please let me know. This was two laptops ago!
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« Reply #231 on: December 12, 2022, 12:52:23 PM »

Tidal have the entire set in Dolby Atmos. Presumably an upmix?
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« Reply #232 on: December 14, 2022, 12:19:24 PM »

Beach Boys Look Back at Band’s Early-‘70s Shift Toward FM Rock in New ’Sail On Sailor’ Collection
Mike Love, Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin talk about one of the group's most fertile, and possibly underrated, periods, newly captured and annotated in a deluxe boxed set built around the 'Holland' and 'Carl and the Passions — So Tough' albums.


https://variety.com/2022/music/news/beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-box-set-mike-love-alan-jardine-blondie-chaplin-1235458609/?
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« Reply #233 on: December 14, 2022, 01:44:52 PM »

Beach Boys Look Back at Band’s Early-‘70s Shift Toward FM Rock in New ’Sail On Sailor’ Collection
Mike Love, Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin talk about one of the group's most fertile, and possibly underrated, periods, newly captured and annotated in a deluxe boxed set built around the 'Holland' and 'Carl and the Passions — So Tough' albums.


https://variety.com/2022/music/news/beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-box-set-mike-love-alan-jardine-blondie-chaplin-1235458609/?

Thanks, this is great!

I thought it was Brian's idea, not Al's, to rename the group The Beach?

Quite a poignant ending there from Blondie, worth reading to the end:

And then working with [Brian] the last six, seven years, that’s been a gas, too. We get along. Because we were close for that one little time, Dennis, Carl and Brian, and he knew about the Flame and everything like that, there was like a mutual respect. I think I remind [Brian] of his brothers, with that connection, you know?


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« Reply #234 on: December 16, 2022, 02:17:28 PM »


Second, at the end (the credits page), under the Carnegie Hall credits, I'm confused about how it lists the "supporting musicians 1972", then the vocalists (including Bruce Johnston), and then the "supporting musicians on live recording"--is this suggesting there were, as often is the case, musicians used for non-live (i.e. studio sweetening?) recordings for the Carnegie material, or is this just strangely worded?  It's all under the Carnegie Hall credits, so it doesn't seem to be referencing musicians who were involved at various points throughout the year, but rather suggests that all were involved in the CH shows. Anyone care to clarify?



I don't know if the LP's booklet differs from the 6 CD set's but it indeed can seem a little confusing because of the superscriptions. "Supporting musicians 1972" means the people who worked on the studio recordings. There's a separate section for the musicians on the live tracks (Carnegie Hall as well as the bonus material) and also for the studio musicians for 1973.


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« Reply #235 on: December 16, 2022, 05:47:49 PM »

Second, at the end (the credits page), under the Carnegie Hall credits, I'm confused about how it lists the "supporting musicians 1972", then the vocalists (including Bruce Johnston), and then the "supporting musicians on live recording"--is this suggesting there were, as often is the case, musicians used for non-live (i.e. studio sweetening?) recordings for the Carnegie material, or is this just strangely worded?  It's all under the Carnegie Hall credits, so it doesn't seem to be referencing musicians who were involved at various points throughout the year, but rather suggests that all were involved in the CH shows. Anyone care to clarify?

Over on the Hoffman board, at least a few posters are convinced that the Carnegie Hall recordings were sweetened with studio vocals from the era. The instances mentioned are the She Don't Know vocals on Mess of Help and the chorus of Marcella. Personally, I can't hear it, but if it's listed this way in the booklet that makes it seem far more likely. I don't really care one way or the other, it sounds amazing and that's what matters - but I would be very curious to know if it's true, and if so which parts of which songs are effected! (The conversation starts on page 57 of the long Sail On Sailor thread over on that board, if anyone's interested in investigating... )
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« Reply #236 on: December 18, 2022, 05:21:50 PM »

I don't know if the LP's booklet differs from the 6 CD set's but it indeed can seem a little confusing because of the superscriptions. "Supporting musicians 1972" means the people who worked on the studio recordings. There's a separate section for the musicians on the live tracks (Carnegie Hall as well as the bonus material) and also for the studio musicians for 1973.



[/quote]

Yes, the booklets do vary slightly. The layout of the CD set is less confusing (to me), and I would have read it the way you suggested--that the supporting musicians were just those throughout the year on the studio recordings, whereas the LP booklet made it look to me like it was possibly referencing the live recordings.  Also, the LP booklet omits the "lead vocals by" listings for the Holland album, but they're listed in the CD booklet. I would have assumed most things like this would simply be Copy/Paste, more or less, in terms of the actual text, but apparently not!
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« Reply #237 on: December 18, 2022, 05:27:10 PM »

One of my favorites of the SOS box is the track/backing vocals for The Trader. Is it just me, or is Bruce on this track? Knowing he left before the Holland sessions, I wasn't expecting to hear him (or what I think might be him) on this song. Do we have a definitive list of the song(s) he was involved in for '72?  I thought I heard him one other track on the SOS box set but am drawing a blank on which it was. Good excuse to listen again  Smiley
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« Reply #238 on: December 19, 2022, 12:00:21 AM »

I’m listening right now on Spotify and it freaking says “Make it Good- Aternate Version”… that typo is driving me nuts!!!

Btw…after hearing the alternate Marcella it’s very clear now it’s Carl doing the Marcella Hey part on the tag… which seriously makes me wonder how I ended up with a snippet of Brian singing it in the first place. I had done an extraction mix on a version of Marcella I “acquired” from someone many of us knew (who has since passed)…not a bootleg, a copy of So Tough …I think it was a needle drop. Can’t remember as I no longer have my original Facebook account. Could there be a possibility that this could be a We Got Love/Holland situation where there was a mispressing, and somehow the wrong mix slipped under the radar for decades?

If anybody here downloaded it when I posted it all those years ago from RapidShare , please let me know. This was two laptops ago!

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« Reply #239 on: December 19, 2022, 10:03:08 AM »

One of my favorites of the SOS box is the track/backing vocals for The Trader. Is it just me, or is Bruce on this track? Knowing he left before the Holland sessions, I wasn't expecting to hear him (or what I think might be him) on this song. Do we have a definitive list of the song(s) he was involved in for '72?  I thought I heard him one other track on the SOS box set but am drawing a blank on which it was. Good excuse to listen again  Smiley


It's been known for years that Bruce sings on "California Saga (on my way to sunny ...)" but I never could point his voice out until the track + bg vocals on the new set. He's very prominent on that.

I'd guess he may be on "Marcella" as they played (or lipsynched to) that song on a dutch TV show which included Bruce.
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« Reply #240 on: December 19, 2022, 11:36:28 AM »

One of my favorites of the SOS box is the track/backing vocals for The Trader. Is it just me, or is Bruce on this track? Knowing he left before the Holland sessions, I wasn't expecting to hear him (or what I think might be him) on this song. Do we have a definitive list of the song(s) he was involved in for '72?  I thought I heard him one other track on the SOS box set but am drawing a blank on which it was. Good excuse to listen again  Smiley


It's been known for years that Bruce sings on "California Saga (on my way to sunny ...)" but I never could point his voice out until the track + bg vocals on the new set. He's very prominent on that.

I'd guess he may be on "Marcella" as they played (or lipsynched to) that song on a dutch TV show which included Bruce.

The recording of Marcella was finished in Feb 72 before they came over to The Netherlands to attend the Grand Gala Du Disque (Feb25th) and perform on Dutch pop show TopPop (on Feb 24th). When the lipsynch performance was done the song still was logged under its original title One Arm Over My Shoulder. But when it was broadcasted on Dutch TV on May 2nd the song obviously was announced as Marcella (C&tP-ST) was released by then.

But in short, Bruce was definitely involved on Marcella.
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« Reply #241 on: December 19, 2022, 11:44:04 AM »

One of my favorites of the SOS box is the track/backing vocals for The Trader. Is it just me, or is Bruce on this track? Knowing he left before the Holland sessions, I wasn't expecting to hear him (or what I think might be him) on this song. Do we have a definitive list of the song(s) he was involved in for '72?  I thought I heard him one other track on the SOS box set but am drawing a blank on which it was. Good excuse to listen again  Smiley


It's been known for years that Bruce sings on "California Saga (on my way to sunny ...)" but I never could point his voice out until the track + bg vocals on the new set. He's very prominent on that.

I'd guess he may be on "Marcella" as they played (or lipsynched to) that song on a dutch TV show which included Bruce.

The recording of Marcella was finished in Feb 72 before they came over to The Netherlands to attend the Grand Gala Du Disque (Feb25th) and perform on Dutch pop show TopPop (on Feb 24th). When the lipsynch performance was done the song still was logged under its original title One Arm Over My Shoulder. But when it was broadcasted on Dutch TV on May 2nd the song obviously was announced as Marcella (C&tP-ST) was released by then.

But in short, Bruce was definitely involved on Marcella.

He and Carl sing all the vocal parts in the verses. Other than that and California, Bruce isn't singing on anything else they recorded that year.
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« Reply #242 on: December 20, 2022, 07:35:37 PM »

This set also leads me to ask why was We Got Love left off Holland?  That could have been a staple on FM radio.

We Got Love was on the version of Holland that was rejected by Warner Bros. because they felt it lacked a good single. The album originally led off with Steamboat (which while a fine song is fairly mellow to be an opening track on a Beach Boys album) and We Got Love ended Side 1, coming after California Saga. When Sail On Sailor was added as the opening track, We Got Love was taken off to make room, though apparently some early German pressings came out with the original rejected track listing by mistake.

But clearly the band really liked the song, they kept it in their set list until Ricky left the group and including it on the In Concert album probably gave some incentive for fans to hear a “new song”.
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« Reply #243 on: December 21, 2022, 06:36:05 AM »

Also, in the realm of "what could have been", I don't think "We Got Love" actually would have been an FM staple, considering that "Sail on Sailor", the song that seemed by many accounts to get the most FM traction and later "classic rock" radio airplay, didn't even really become a "staple" as such, but rather was simple "oh, that's the only Beach Boys song I remember hearing on that station" status.

None of this has any relation to the actual quality of the material. I dig "We Got Love", and obviously a ton of the material from this era seemingly *should have* gotten more traction on radio and on the charts and in the general popular music discussion, based on the actual *quality* of the material. There were obviously other factors at play, and as such, I think "We Got Love" would have been less recognized than "Sail on Sailor" was, and even "Sail on Sailor" didn't get the full recognition on all counts that it should have, despite even *reemerging* on the singles charts briefly later on. I mean, c'mon, it transcends just being a really good single. It is/should be evergreen/masterpiece status. The band did it a disservice by ever dropping it from the setlist, as least as long as Carl was there to sing it if nobody else could or wanted to.
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« Reply #244 on: December 22, 2022, 09:22:42 AM »

Although meaningless, Sail On Sailor made it on this list:


The Best Box Sets of 2022


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/the-best-box-sets-of-2022-1234647516/?



Speaking of publicity, am I wrong or is there less hype about "Sail on Sailor" than for "Feel flows"? I seem to remember that the latter got more press but maybe I'm misremembering or my impression was totally wrong.


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« Reply #245 on: December 22, 2022, 12:42:05 PM »

One possibility is the surprise people had a year ago. ‘What…That surf group were more than surfing and cars?’. The unknown is now known.

Just my 2 cents.
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« Reply #246 on: December 22, 2022, 11:09:36 PM »




Speaking of publicity, am I wrong or is there less hype about "Sail on Sailor" than for "Feel flows"? I seem to remember that the latter got more press but maybe I'm misremembering or my impression was totally wrong.





we also had 171 pages discussing Feel Flows, and the topic is still pinned at the top for some reason. we're up to 10 pages for SOS.

what gives?
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« Reply #247 on: December 23, 2022, 08:08:30 AM »

I think it's safe to say the delays and multiple months of confusion regarding the status of the Feel Flows set and speculation about what might have been going on behind-the-scenes were a significant factor in the amount of discussions that quickly accumulated leading up to the eventual release of the box set. Plus, it was the first time in a decade we'd gotten a truly massive release from The Beach Boys camp -- I can't think of any release that has rivaled the scope and ambition of 'Feel Flows' since 'The SMiLE Sessions' box set. I too, am surprised there hasn't been/isn't more discussion about the new set (my post a few pages ago wondering if anyone could highlight which tracks might have previously circulated and which tracks are new to even collectors has gone unanswered  LOL )

This being said I finally got to give a listen to one of the discs in this set (I chose CD6 for new studio content) and WOW this is everything I was hoping it would be. The 'Mount Vernon and Fairway' are wonderful, the 30-40 seconds of a cappella "Radio King Dom" is literally a dream of mine. The boys have done it again!
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« Reply #248 on: December 23, 2022, 09:34:29 AM »




Speaking of publicity, am I wrong or is there less hype about "Sail on Sailor" than for "Feel flows"? I seem to remember that the latter got more press but maybe I'm misremembering or my impression was totally wrong.





we also had 171 pages discussing Feel Flows, and the topic is still pinned at the top for some reason. we're up to 10 pages for SOS.

what gives?
I haven't listened to SOS yet as it's under my tree for Sunday so I am sure there may be a handful of people not chiming in who don't have the box yet (or were waiting on purpose).
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« Reply #249 on: December 25, 2022, 05:18:09 PM »


Speaking of publicity, am I wrong or is there less hype about "Sail on Sailor" than for "Feel flows"? I seem to remember that the latter got more press but maybe I'm misremembering or my impression was totally wrong.


we also had 171 pages discussing Feel Flows, and the topic is still pinned at the top for some reason. we're up to 10 pages for SOS.

what gives?

First off, Merry Xmas to all SS folks--and, as always, kudos to our stalwart moderators. Regarding the Feel Flows thread: ~3/4ths of that thread occurred during the seemingly interminable "delay" phase, which explains its length. Many of us (including yours truly) were stoking the fires there regularly for a protracted period of time. Once the set arrived, it had a treasure trove of unreleased material, whereas SOS '72 is less abundant in that regard. Also the energy surrounding the actual release was extremely high, given the drawn-out drama involved with it...and that explains the extra level of attention it received from commenters.

Let's not mince words: SOS '72 is an overpriced set, and I suspect that a fairly sizable number of die-hard BB fans may have chosen NOT to purchase it just yet, hoping for an eventual price drop. If they purchased the "starter set" (2-CD/2-LP versions) instead, they just don't have that much to comment about.

And, frankly, the set demonstrates (IMO, at least) that the band's creative momentum was starting to run its course. The circumstances behind the great collective burst of songwriting--the home studio--would dissipate in tandem with the HOLLAND project. Carl's impetus to write songs came about in large part due to Jack Rieley's encouragement, and when Jack devised his exit strategy (a variation on "jump before you're pushed"...), that momentum slowed even further. While Brian's [EDIT: unreleased] tracks on SOS '72 remain intriguing, they also remain defiantly incomplete: they appear to be casualties of the HOLLAND adventure and the loss of easy access to studio time (as well as Brian's escalating habit of leaving things incomplete). There is no sense that any of these Brian tracks were given much consideration for HOLLAND even at the point in time when there was only one Brian song ("Funky Pretty") in the track lineup.

Similarly, Blondie and Ricky's material was only fitfully suitable for a Beach Boys LP. That's not meant as a knock on the songs; but, really, the only track of theirs that fits with any real sense of comfort into the context of the band is "Leaving This Town," which lands itself in an interesting twilight region between the predilections of The Flame and the range of characteristics found in post-GV Beach Boys music. So getting a listen to their tracks that were left off HOLLAND is interesting, pleasurable, but not revelatory.

SOS '72 shows the band revving up as a live act to find a path through the forest back to commercial viability and to stake a claim for the creativity of the members of the group not named Brian Wilson. But there's a subtle undercurrent of burnout that comes through in terms of the songwriting--possibly because there were extra demands on them at the time. In short, too many LPs in too short a time. Yes, "product" was needed to keep moving in a forward direction. And the band couldn't rely on Brian to write them any hits, even though "Marcella" and "Sail On Sailor" should've been hits. With Brian going further underground, and with continuing friction/uncertainty about how to assimilate Dennis' material, the upcoming creative impasse is a slow-moving train wreck coming the band's way, and we find it full swing by the time IN CONCERT is released. The next year ENDLESS SUMMER flips the script; the band fights against it for awhile, but with the creative impasse fully in place, they will ultimately yield to it (and, really, how could they not...the power of that past was--and is--too strong).

That might explain why there seems to be a sense of anti-climax about SOS '72. I think the package will succeed in rescuing the reputation of CATP and further burnishing HOLLAND. But moving forward in time, there's really no follow-through from there. What 's unfortunate is that the great push from late '67-early '69 as documented in the (mostly digital) releases that augment SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS and 20/20 are likely to remain under-appreciated in the context of a revaluation of the band: I think Howie and Mark and Alan should put their heads together and look to pitch a set that takes the best of the material from the digital releases and ties it in with a re-release of those three albums in a physical box set.

There's a narrative there that can be constructed from the flood of material that came out in those sets, and a coherent, compelling throughline could emerge from that capable of reaching those who've come on board with the last two archival releases. Some live snippets can be added, along (perhaps) with a new, expanded version of "Stack-o-Tracks" as a bonus CD, taking advantage of the fact that 25-30 tracks can be comfortably included. Technology should also permit additional track/backing vocal presentations for selected tracks.

What we have on SOS '72 is just fine for what it is. But, as has so often been the case, the band's ongoing frictions have resulted in some suboptimal uses of these archival sets. I think there's a way to remedy that with the '67-'68 material, if folks get creative about how to approach it. I think if they want to keep the momentum going, returning to that material with a updated game plan is better than trying to make something work with what's in the vaults for the '73-'75 period.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2022, 04:43:06 PM by Don Malcolm » Logged
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