The Smiley Smile Message Board

Thought I'd start a thread for news, thoughts, opinions etc. etc. in relation to this year's forthcoming Carl and the Passions / Holland box set.

To kick things off, any ideas of whether or not the Flames material from the second album would likely form part of this set, or a separate release, or maybe not be released at all?

Also, while I think of it, we'd have to be getting the Sail On Sailor demo tape (writing session?) wouldn't we?

Just noticed the thread started by The Heartical Don on this. Didn't mean to rain on that parade. I searched for Sail On Sailor and nothing relevant turned up, so I thought I was safe starting a new thread.

Also a thread I started in April.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,28083.msg677664.html#msg677664

All will be revealed soon.....

Really cool, Mark. Also, regarding the Sail On Sailor demo, I'd sincerely hope that if it's not released fully, because it's deemed too weird or something, then the musical portions of it at least are presented in some form. That'd be extraordinary, as it's a piece of music history, and the holy grail of unreleased TBBs music.

Glad to see Mark and Howie popping in...gives us all a boost to help us hang on until the set gets released...

Seconding PetSmile's "think and wish and hope and pray" on SOS. The last truly transcendent anthem from the band really needs as much historical coverage as possible, and that includes at least some portion of the legendary demo.

I may have missed something, but is it officially’The ‘Sail On Sailor Box Set’?

Box art here:

https://twitter.com/manzamediaart/status/1574596407796940801?s=21&t=W2aa-9N_D_JdT36CK7qwvw

very exciting!

O M G

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYYvsRePvjc

O M G! Part 2!!!

https://ultimateclassicrock.com/beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972-box-set/

Including a full track list!!! *****And just to get yourself fully charged, take a look at CD 5 track 13*****

The Beach Boys, 'Sail on Sailor - 1972,' Six-CD Super Deluxe Edition Track Listing
CD One - 'Carl and the Passions - "So Tough"'
1. "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone"
2. "Here She Comes"
3. "He Come Down"
4. "Marcella"
5. "Hold on Dear Brother"
6. "Make It Good"
7. "All This Is That"
8. "Cuddle Up"

'Carl and the Passions - "So Tough"' Bonus Tracks (Previously Unreleased)
9. "The Road Not Taken" (demo - previously unreleased)
10. All This Is That" (a Cappella mix - previously unreleased)
11. "He Come Down" (2022 mix - previously unreleased)
12. "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone" (track and backing vocals)
13. "Marcella" (a Cappella mix - previously unreleased)
14. "Make It Good" (alternate mix with Intro - previously unreleased)
15. "Cuddle Up" (alternate mix - previously unreleased)
16. "Carl and the Passions / Pet Sounds Promo" (1972)

CD Two - 'Holland'
1. "Sail on Sailor"
2. "Steamboat"
3. "California Saga - Big Sur"
4. "California Saga - The Beaks of Eagles"
5. "California Saga - California"
6. "The Trader"
7. "Leaving This Town"
8. "Only With You"
9. "Funky Pretty"

'Mount Vernon and Fairway (A Fairytale)'
By Brian Wilson (Please listen in the dark)
10. "Mount Vernon and Fairway Theme"
11. "I'm the Pied Piper - Instrumental"
12. "Better Get Back in Bed"
13. "Magic Transistor Radio"
14. "I'm the Pied Piper"
15. Radio King Dom"

Holland Bonus Tracks (Previously Unreleased)
16. "We Got Love" (2022 mix - previously unreleased)
17. "Hard Time" (previously unreleased)
18. "Carry Me Home" (previously unreleased)
19. "California Saga - The Beaks of Eagles" (1973 single mix - previously unreleased)
20. "California Saga - California" (1973 single mix)
21. "Sail on Sailor" (track - previously unreleased 2022 mix)
22. "Holland Promo 1" (1973)

CD Three - 'The Beach Boys Live at Carnegie Hall' (Previously Unreleased) November 23, 1972
1st Set
1."Concert Intro: Jack Rieley"
2. "Sloop John B"
3. "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone"
4. "Leaving This Town"
5. "Darlin'"
6. "Only With You"
7. "Heroes and Villains"
8. "Long Promised Road"
9. "Don't Worry, Baby"
10. "Student Demonstration Time"
11. "I Get Around"

CD Four - 'The Beach Boys Live at Carnegie Hall' (Previously Unreleased) November 23, 1972
2nd Set
1. "Intro to 2nd Set: Jack Rieley"
2. "Marcella"
3. "California Saga - California"
4. "Help Me, Rhonda"
5. "Let the Wind Blow"
6. "Medley: Wonderful / Don't Worry, Bill"
7. "God Only Knows"
8. "Do It Again"
9. "Wouldn’t It Be Nice"
10. "Wild Honey"
11. "Good Vibrations"
12. "California Girls"
13. "Surfin' USA"
14. "Fun Fun Fun"
15. "Jumpin' Jack Flash"

CD Five - 1972 Sessions (Previously Unreleased)
1. "You Need a Mess of Help to Stand Alone" (a Capella mix - previously unreleased)
2. "Marcella" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
3. "Here She Comes" (session excerpt - previously unreleased)
4. "Here She Comes" (2022 mix - previously unreleased)
5. "He Come Down" (a Cappella section - previously unreleased)
6. "Hold on Dear Brother" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
7. "Steamboat" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
8. "California Saga - California" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
9. "The Trader" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
10. "The Trader" (second section a Cappella - previously unreleased)
11. "Only With You" (alternate mix - previously unreleased)
12. "Funky Pretty" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
13. "Sail On Sailor" (songwriting session - previously unreleased)
14. "Sail On Sailor" (a Cappella mix - previously unreleased)
15. "Out on the Country" (version 1) (previously unreleased)
16. "Out in the Country" (version 2) (previously unreleased)
17. "Oh Sweet Something" (previously unreleased)
18. "Spark in the Dark" (previously unreleased track)
19. "Rooftop Harry" (previously unreleased track)
18. "Body Talk (Grease Job)" (previously unreleased track)
19. "Holland Promo 2" (1973)

CD - 6 Live Bonus Tracks
1. "We Got Love" (Live 1973 - previously unreleased)
2. "California Saga - Big Sur" (Live 1973 - previously unreleased)
3. "Funky Pretty" (Live 1973 - previously unreleased)
4. "The Trader" (Live 1975 - previously unreleased)
5. "Sail on Sailor" (Live 1975 - previously unreleased)
6. "All This Is That" (Live 1993 - previously unreleased)

'Mount Vernon and Fairway (A Fairytale)' (Previously Unreleased)
7. "Fairy Tale Music" (2022 mix - previously unreleased)
8. "Pa Let Her Go Out (Better Get Back in Bed)" (alternate version with intro - previously unreleased)
9. "I'm the Pied Piper" (a Cappella section - previously unreleased)
10. "Radio King Dom" (a Cappella section - previously unreleased)
11. "I'm the Pied Piper" (alternate take spoken section - previously unreleased)
12. "Medley: Mount Vernon and Fairway Theme / A Casual Look" (session excerpt - previously unreleased)

1972 Bonus Tracks (Previously Unreleased)
13. "Little Child (Daddy Dear)" ('Holland' home recording)
14. "Susie Cincinnati" ('Holland' home recording)
15. "Medley: Gimme Some Lovin' / I Need Your Love"

California Saga Trilogy
16. "California Saga - Big Sur"
17. "California Saga - The Beaks of Eagles" (2022 edit - previously unreleased)
18. "California Saga - California"
19. Carry Me Home" (track and backing vocals - previously unreleased)
20. "All This Is That" (a Capella alternate verse - previously unreleased)

Wow, everything that one could hope for! One small omission, unless I missed it, the single mix of Cuddle Up, unless it's the listed alternate mix. And of course, there's the songwriting session of Sail On Sailor... :-D

I know its lost/recorded over, but man I was really hoping someone found a version of the Carl lead vocal of Sail On Sailor.

Yep

Or even more so Drnnis' vocal, likely also lost orvrecorded over

 :ahh :ahh :ahh

Anything on the vinyls that's not on the CDs?

Only Blondie's lead is on the 16 track and we have never found a rough mix with any other vocal. Its possible all the lead vocal attempts were made at the same session and the decision made to use Blondie's so no roughs of Carl or Dennis would have been made. There aren't any open tracks either which also helps explain why there aren't any other leads on the tape .

Thanks for that info, Mark!

Desper has posted several times that he has the track with a Carl lead vocal. Then said he didn’t
He deleted “.” all his posts claiming that he had a cassette copy of Carl singing the lead on SOS.

I was really hoping he had it but he has a huge library to keep track of.

But one such claim was quoted and not deleted:

 Do we know why the version of All This Is That with the sax solo excluded??
 It was on the Sea Of Tunes boot of the same name and is a beautiful track.

It's super awesome we're getting all these new sets but it would be neat to get multiple box sets per year (see The Grateful Dead).  I think it's possible.  We can hope for even more greatness.  🤞🤞

Listen, if I wake up in the morning and see that my girlfriend bought me a $100,000 car that’s sitting in my driveway, I’m not saying “why didn’t you put tissues in the glove box?”

Do we have to complain about minutiae?

If that was even a possibility I think it would require the BBs to actually create a website like the promised beach boys central and  make live tapes available to diehard fans by downloading

Wow!  :o This set looks to be everything I've been hoping it would be and more! Can any hardcore collectors clue me in to how much of the unreleased stuff has never circulated? There's plenty of content that I've only read about, and stuff I don't think I've ever even heard of! Another embarrassment of riches for us this holiday season!  ;D What a time to be a Beach Boys fan!

With everything that’s been going on in this world I feel We Got Love would’ve been a better choice to promote the set and not you need a mess of help the stand alone live

I don’t dislike “We Got Love”, but it’s one of the weaker tracks from this era.

I think one of the purposes of this set is to awaken new fans (of any age) to how cool and progressive the band was in terms of their look and sound in this era. The live band and its amazing quality during this era is a big part of that story, so the live “Mess of Help” makes perfect sense to me. It covers a lot of bases. It’s a well-liked track from this era, but it’s a slightly harder, and looser live take that lets you know what the band sounded like on stage in 1972, and it's also of extra interest to hardcore fans as a relatively rare live track.

It was my idea to lead off with "Mess Of Help." I think it spotlights everything hot and new about this era in a solid punch.
It screams "FM" and underscores what a powerhouse this lineup was on stage.
Carl nailing a new Brian tune with the band smoking and singing their asses off. You can't go wrong.
 

A great, great track (one of my absolute faves from listening #2 back in the day) that got lost in the WTF? shuffle back in '72 and more than deserves a shot at total redemption. I hadn't heard the Carnegie live version before, and it sounds like Carl reworked some things from the earlier live versions in order to give it a more distinct concert context--folks at shows don't tend to relate as well to "fade outs" as they're able to do with studio versions. There's some added power in the transition to the "She don't know..." middle 8/tag that takes it up another notch and does exactly what Howie says--these guys could really bring it on stage back then.

Great call, Howie. Looking forward to hearing the whole shebang in November. I predict a great deal of critical and commercial success for this one, which will go a long, long way toward realizing all of the objectives, hopes and desires so many have had regarding the '72 material as the being knockout punch for putting the band back on top of the heap legacy-wise, once and for all.

Carl is really kicking some major ass on this version!

I'm curious about the two versions of Out In The Country. Would one of them be the full backing track?

Mess of Help is one of my all time favorites and the band could really be amazing live at that time! Can’t wait for the set!  Hope I don’t have to drive 500 miles round trip like I did for the last box set!

That live version of "Mess of Help" is awesome! Carl rawkin' out like that, just reinforces why I think he's one of the greatest voices of the 20th century.

The '72 Carnegie Hall stuff is pretty close to peak live era. I suppose if I were forced to pick, they maybe got even tighter and better into 1973, but really 72 and 73 go together. And really, 74 and 75 are no slouches either.

I have no doubt that the live stuff on this set is going to be some of the biggest highlights.

Speaking of "You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone", in case someone may have missed these promo videos:


The Beach Boys – You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=In3Xbxw3QG8


The Beach Boys - You Need A Mess Of Help To Stand Alone (promo with outtakes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0_n8q6838Y

Great decision Howie mess of help rocks live at Carnegie

When are pre orders going up on amazon

How can I not get the limited edition box set

To promote the new box set, all Beach Boys shows for the next six months should feature Mike wearing the white bathrobe again.

  ;D

Still nothing on amazon

I want to place my order  >:D

Ditto, like take my money already!   :ahh :wave

I decided to take a look on Amazon for myself. I didn't find the box, but I found a seven disc Use Your Illusion box set, the Beatles Revolver set, The Jimi Hendrix Experience Live At The Forum April 26th 1969, and at this point I can hear my empty wallet starting to cry.  :ahh

Whoa... hypnotize me and make me believe I'm not crazy...   :o

A few items starting to appear. I don’t think it’s going to be long.

https://www.amazon.com/music/player/albums/B0BGJK13WT?ref=sr_1_6&s=music&keywords=sail+on+sailor+beach+boys&crid=30OWZWEVG5KQ0&sprefix=beach+boys+sail+on+sailor%2Cpopular%2C232&qid=1664518844&sr=1-6-catcorr

Edit: We’re off to the races….👍 CD Box.

https://www.amazon.com/Sail-Sailor-1972-Super-Deluxe/dp/B0BG2Y52CV/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1T3N4X922D73F&keywords=sail+on+sailor+beach+boys&qid=1664529453&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIxLjc4IiwicXNhIjoiMS4xNyIsInFzcCI6IjEuODEifQ%3D%3D&s=music&sprefix=sail+on+sailor+beach+boys%2Cpopular%2C1176&sr=1-5

Vinyl

https://www.amazon.com/Sail-Sailor-1972-LP-EP/dp/B0BG2X3QPG/ref=tmm_vnl_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1664529453&sr=1-5

2 CD

https://www.amazon.com/Sail-Sailor-1972-2-CD/dp/B0BG2W8L88/ref=tmm_acd_title_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1664529453&sr=1-5

Audio

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0BGJK13WT/ref=dm_rwp_pur_lnd_preo_fr

Awesome! Thanks for the links.

6-CD set pre-ordered. Thanks for the heads up!

Question for Howie-

I was at the midnight Carnegie Hall show on 11/23/72.
 Is the full concert that's included in the box set a compilation of the best performances from the early and midnight shows or a complete recording of just one of the shows?

Here is a link to the super deluxe vinyl set: https://www.amazon.com/Sail-Sailor-1972-Super-Deluxe/dp/B0BG2WMQJD/ref=pd_lutyp_d_rtpb_sccl_2_1/141-0177124-8404072?pd_rd_w=KJXrE&content-id=amzn1.sym.e87e42ff-d9d6-4960-b250-a08faad41533&pf_rd_p=e87e42ff-d9d6-4960-b250-a08faad41533&pf_rd_r=2EYHCXGP306KEWPVA327&pd_rd_wg=J0x8u&pd_rd_r=532f44e5-f419-4bd8-b0e2-5e492ec6f54c&pd_rd_i=B0BG2WMQJD&psc=1

Interesting to note that the deluxe vinyl booklet is listed as 38 pages while the deluxe CD booklet  is listed as 48 pages.

Don't know about anyone else, but the "Rooftop Harry" track has me excited, I wonder how complete it is..? ::) :o

What a great time for a relase.. November!

These albums are very wintery  ;D

I don't remember The details of that one. Will have to look it up in my good old Brad Elliott book - I have a clear recollection that it was mentioned there.

My memory is clearly not what it used to be, but in any event the book has some thought provoking, if not always accurate content. These shots from the out-takes section. Obviously the Dennis song mentioned is Carry Me Home, but it was recorded!! Probably Atlantis Rising didn't get beyond the talking about it stage, but the report of a new version of Surf's Up recorded at the Holland sessions???

Does anyone know when the latest issue of ESQ (Carl & the Passions) goes on sale?

I got that one a week or 2 ago, and I'm in Australia  - about a week's postage from the U.S.

And finally we get the studio recording of "We got Love". I really like that one, especially that pedal steel intro! As you certainly know, an early pressing of "Holland" featuring that song was released in Germany, yet the recording was never used again on any sets afaik.

Looking forward to this one!  Also quite buzzed that "Carry Me Home" finally gets a proper official release. 

Disregard

I think Analogue Productions used it on a vinyl release. Found it here https://www.discogs.com/release/8957660-The-Beach-Boys-Holland

The amazon situation is a disaster. No surprise there

Same thing happened with FF last year from memory. Others can chime in but it would not surprise me if these sets have an initial run planned then up it as demand warrants.

I wasn't aware of that. Thank you! But I guess they didn't get to use the master tapes but worked with the "bootlegged" version, did they?

Unfortunately I've never come across an affordable copy so haven't heard it. I'd imagine it's the official version sanctioned by Brother as AP are a legit company but not 100%.

It's on the SACD too https://www.discogs.com/release/8864074-The-Beach-Boys-Holland

Thread here http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,19211.0.html

Super excited about the new set, albeit with one question: Is there any reason why the special items that come with the Deluxe and Limited Super Deluxe LP variations (the lithographs and the Holland promo reproduction booklet) can't also come with the Super Deluxe 6-CD version? While I have a record player, it's a cheap one and vinyl is not my go-to for most music. I always buy the CD sets, and feel I certainly can't be alone? As such, I've always been fine missing out on whatever extras are exclusive to the LP sets. But this time I caved, having just ordered the Limited Super Deluxe vinyl edition simply for the lithographs and Holland book (call me a sucker), and I will no doubt get the CDs for most of my actual listening. I figured I'd ask anyone here who might be in the know about why such bonuses can't be offered for the CD versions? I know this is not unique to this set, or the Beach Boys products in general. But I don't see why a "Limited Super Deluxe" CD option couldn't be offered just as it is for the LPs. Anyone in the know about why this is so often the case, where vinyl products come with the most unique goodies?  I can't imagine the physical configuration of the CD box set would have to be altered much, if at all, to house a sleeve or something that could contain those items, given it's housed in a book anyway.

I think you have answered the question yourself. It’s all about maximising the return for a business and I don’t think the Beach Boys and the label are any different.

Remind me again, what is the actual release date for this thing? I don't do the whole pre-order thing. I will find it in a physical store when it's available.

Nov. 18th

Yep I own the SACD version.  The studio version is quite nice although the live version of it sounds, well, livelier.   

I did. Once again I have to buy from amazon france. I'm not waiting for amazon uk, loads of people did last time and got cancelled on.

To answer the topic brought up above, yes, the Analogue Productions releases (vinyl and CD/SACD hybrid) are legit, licensed releases. I'm not sure what would possibly make anyone think they're not. They were/are sold through legitimate retailers, and have known names that remastered them.

They weren't discussed a ton here, but I think that was just a confluence of a bunch of things (the 2012 reissues being relatively recent at the time, not a super huge interest here in high-rez, and the incomplete nature of both reissue campaigns).

The current mode of running through the catalog and getting the albums back out there in physical form and also presenting a ton of outtakes (e.g. Feel Flows and Sail on Sailor) is ideal, and I certainly hope we continue to see the 70s covered in one form or another.

Just got an email from the Beach Boys organization saying the release date is now Dec. 2

Is this for a physical release? Because the streaming release is still listed as November 18.

Here's what the Beach Boys notification says:
Hold on, dear brother that box set you’ve been waiting for now arrives December 2.


Sail On Sailor - 1972


 A new expansive multi-disc and digital box set, highlighting 1972's Carl and the Passions – "So Tough" and 1973's Holland albums with a bounty of unreleased outtakes, live recordings, demos, alternate versions and mixes, instrumentals, and a cappella tracks.


 Some highlights include a Mount Vernon and Fairway (A Fairytale) EP (not available on vinyl since its original release) and Carnegie Hall Thanksgiving 1972 concert recording. The Carnegie Hall concert is the first-ever release of a complete Beach Boys concert from this era with its original setlist. Sail On Sailor also includes a beautifully-designed, booklet with liner notes, rare photos of the band, recording artifacts, and more.

That's what I'm hearing from Amazon too.

Date for streaming also changed to Dec. 2 release date.

The upcoming Beatles "Revolver" boxed set just got bumped two weeks as well (from 10/28 to 11/11), so I would imagine this is a larger label and/or industry issue with replication/manufacturing. So the dumb, miserable carping on other boards blaming the wrong people for the delay with the BB set can be ignored, if they weren't already.

And yes, when one format (vinyl being the culprit in recent times) is delayed due to manufacturing issues, they will hold back all formats so that first week sales are maximized/optimized.

If I'm not mistaken the same is happening to the new Elvis - On Tour boxset.

I bought all of he analogue production masters as high res downloads. They are easily the best editions of those albums. I don’t expect them to be bettered. Absolutely vital purchases.

I think it was also Analogue Productions that handled the 200g vinyl release of Holland that I also own.  That sucker's a pretty thick piece of wax; it could take a bullet and still probably play fine.  🤣

And even better; although mentioned nowhere on either the 2LP vinyl release or the SACD, both contain We Got Love as a bonus cut. (granted, they do mention it on their website).

This version of WGL is a longer edit compared to the original version that only made it on testpressings of the first version of Holland, and a few hundred German pressings (when someone at WEA accidenally accidentally took the wrong master to press a second run of the original pressing (probably March 1973). And this longer edit is the same as the one on the so-called Klay-tapes (Brother 3CD set).

For anybody who hasn't pre-ordered, Import CDs has reduced the box set to $112.99, and they charge just $2.99 to ship within the US. You won't receive it on the day of release, but they're a good option for anybody willing to wait a few days to save a few $$$. They have been in business for a long time and are reliable... I've ordered from them previously, including "Feel Flows".

https://www.importcds.com/beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-super-deluxe-6cd/602445859146

The retail price has been lowered here also, in Holland, that is (how apt, Holland).

So, I’d like all of the unreleased stuff, acapellas, backing tracks, etc. but I do not own a record player. I’d like a CD so I can dump it into iTunes to put it on my phone. What are my options?

Can anyone recommend great record players too?

I seem to recall with Feels Flows I didn’t have this problem. I don’t want to miss out on unreleased stuff. And I’d like the booklet thing.

It's coming out on CD:

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/308624037_573593144561816_1063828672002900918_n.jpg?stp=dst-webp_e15_q70_s1085x1985_tt1_u&efg=eyJ1cmxnZW4iOiJ1cmxnZW5fZnJvbV91cmwifQ&_nc_cid=0&_nc_ad=z-m&_nc_rml=0&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&_nc_cat=101&_nc_ohc=llzWht1GRc0AX8YvLmT&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&oh=00_AT_fk14G7-L4Ql7eeGueqHRItSY7b7_wYpLb_NvhiTbYDg&oe=63581C83)

Just came across this -

Japanese edition with bonus track

Seems a little odd - I sniff a little marketing sneakery going on here. I vague recall a slightly similar deception being carried out with the Feel Flows box Japanese release, but I do know that the Japanese record buying public have a certain taste for bonus tracks.

https://www.juno.co.uk/products/beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972-japanese/907285-01/

Carry Me Home

https://youtu.be/kkF3iby9zls

Thoughts?

Huge improvement over the bootleg for sure!   :bow

Sounds good to me. Of course we know certain people are gonna hate it just because, but IMHO it’s just fine …

Big improvement over the booted version.  Sounds great.

Love it. I even got a bit verklempted.  :'(

https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/beach-boys-rarity-carry-me-home-previews-sail-on-sailor/

What a beautiful recording!!

Am I right in thinking reverb has been added in parts?

For some reason there's not a lot going on here about "Carry me home" so I would just like to express again how much I appreciate this "new" version. Much more than I ever liked listening to the bootlegged version (for obvious reasons). Listening to this release blew my mind. Blondie and Dennis sharing the lead is very effective and it shoows (as does the In Concert album) how well Blondie's voice fit in with the Beach Boys blend. Man, if only Blondie and Ricky would've stayed with the band.
Thanks Alan, Mark, Howie, Beach Boys and everyone else who made sure we can enjoy this beautiful recording.

Yea, I agree completely. Some songs do okay (some songs maybe even benefit, in a strange way) from a little hiss, but this is not one of them. I've always had a sense that it was a great song, but I've never really wanted to listen to it until now. The sound of it in this version is just absolutely sublime.

‘It’s Eerie Listening Back‘: Beach Boys Finally Release Dennis Wilson Rarity ’Carry Me Home’

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/beach-boys-release-dennis-wilson-rarity-carry-me-home-1234616369/?

It's so nice to finally have an official release of this underrated song.  This earthy, folky track hints at what could have been if the Beach Boys had continued to explore this path during that period of the band instead of careening straight back into caricatures of themselves with 15 Big Ones.  Oh well. 

***** 5 Stars from SHINDIG!

Awesome!

I refer you to the expert.
http://www.turntabletreasures.com
He's honest and will give you the answers you seek.

***** 5 Stars from RECORD COLLECTOR.

Hell yeah! I’m excited af to hear this!

Agree, it sounds fantastic. What a song to be left unreleased for 50 years or so. I heard the leaked Brother Rarities one but this version blows it away.

Yeah, this song would have fit right at home on either CatP: So Tough or Holland albums.  I get the feeling this song was never probably finished though but it still sounds fantastic.  

Record Collector review seemingly confirms "Body Talk (Grease Job)" as a Brian tune. Also some interesting info about the "Sail On Sailor" songwriting session recording.

Here's a link for anybody interested...

https://recordcollectormag.com/reviews/album/sail-on-sailor-1972

An a capella mix of All This Is That just hit Spotify here in Australia (I expect you'll have to wait until after midnight wherever you happen to be).

Outstanding, pure vocal perfection. Mike, Al and Carl blending their voices sounds heavenly here. Surely this box set will be mind blowing.

There you go:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhokOKMfu4I

All this is that (acapella)

Fantastic!!

Listen To New Mix Of Beach Boys’ ‘All This Is That’ From Upcoming ‘Sail On Sailor’ Set
The new mix showcases the pristine vocals of Al Jardine, Carl Wilson, and Mike Love, and the whole group’s trademark harmonies.


https://www.udiscovermusic.com/news/listen-to-new-mix-beach-boys-all-this-is-that/



(https://www.udiscovermusic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/11/Beach-Boys-1972-live.jpg)


Coinciding with the release of the track and the imminent arrival of the boxed set, a new capsule collection of Sail On Sailor-inspired merchandise is launching today, featuring t-shirts, sweatshirts, hats and more. The new apparel complements the Beach Boys’ recently-unveiled holiday merchandise line, which includes a variety of shirts and hoodies emblazoned with imagery from the band’s classic Christmas album, plus branded scarves, beanies, and ornaments. All the new offerings are available at their official store.

The last couple of days I pulled out my electric bass for a change (I usually play guitar) and boy, what fun it is to groove along to "You need a Mess of Help", especially the live version. For an old R'n'B fan like me this is exactly the right stuff.  :afro

3 days left :banana

We've got news for you, unfortunately...

Says December 2 on Amazon

Nice little teaser being promoted for a official short animation release tomorrow.

https://youtu.be/dLJvr7DJDCI

https://youtu.be/BMuHTrm_aKM

Very nice!
There's also a snippet of unreleased audio, I believe. What track may this come from?

Full video:
https://youtu.be/BMuHTrm_aKM (https://youtu.be/BMuHTrm_aKM)

Love it! Very cool, right down to Dennis cupping his ear and Ricky drumming on SOS! Nicely done!

It's a pretty charming video.  I'm getting the feeling that this forthcoming box set is going to be even better than the Feel Flows set.  As long as the overall mix isn't punishing me with too much treble then we should be good.  :-)

I think it’s a cute video. It captures that period very well.

And a surprise appearance by the late Jack Rieley

Maybe this will get answered with the new release but do we know if Blondie & Ricky wrote "Here she comes" and "Hold on, dear brother" explicitly for a Beach Boys release or were the songs originally intended for The Flame?

This clip is fantastic. So much in so few seconds...
A small reminder of why I love the Beach Boys, not that I needed it.
Also, a reminder of how absolutely great Brian was in this period, too.

Uber cool vid!!

Not long to go now. I guess just over a week.

My fingers are crossed for just one more sneaky prev. unreleased promo or such between now and then.

Just got word from Amazon.de that the multi-CD set has been pushed back to December 9.

Still Dec. 2 on Amazon.ca.

SPOILER:


This was posted by the BBs facebook account:


There’s a recording on 'Sail On Sailor – 1972' of Brian working in the studio. As Brian workshops what would soon become the titular track, Carl enters the room. Don’t miss out on never-before-heard sounds like this one, the exclusive lithographs and more and pre-order the box set on our official store

Does anyone know if the booklet/liner notes differ for the CD vs vinyl release? It looks like there is a difference in number of pages. Also, does anyone know if there was a difference between the Feel Flows CD/vinyl books?

The 2 CD version had a short text by Howie inside the gatefold. I don't know about the multi CD set but would guess that it had the same notes as the vinyl. Probably the new set will be similar built.


I can't wait for the people to (re-)discover what a great song "The Trader" is! Those lyrics and that melody  :love

Dutch retailer Bol.com also changed the date to 9 December...

I wonder if it will be on Spotify tomorrow?

Edit: I guess it will be, because it is on iTunes if you are in the Australia/NZ region.

Yep, it's on Spotify in Australia.

I'm not sure if this is news to anyone here or not, but Spark In The Dark turns out to have nothing to do with Funky Pretty -- it's completely instrumental and has part of the melody of Chain Reaction Of Love.

My set has shipped.  ;D

Folks who like to pick out and hear Brian re-using riffs and chord patterns (or the genesis of them, one can never know) are going to really dig some of the tracks on this set. Multiple call-backs (or I guess call-forwards?) to Brian's 80s and 90s solo stuff.

Also, I'll be fascinated to hear if the improved fidelity of the Little Child/Daddy Dear tape will quell or spur more Al vs. Brian debates.

I noticed elsewhere someone said that tape sounds the same on this set as the circulating versions, and that's not the case. It sounds noticeably better here. It's still a "home recording", so it's not like an A+ studio recording. But it's much clearer. Recall that the first time any of this tape was heard was during that A&E Biography back in from the late 90s. So no, I don't think they just pulled this "from YouTube" or whatever like someone elsewhere said.

In the US and just received confirmation from Amazon that mine  has shipped and will be delivered tomorrow! Woohoo

Pa Let Her Go Out has the verse from Lazy Lizzie...  :bw

Same in NZ. Nice to hear Mike crediting Billy for the lead in the 1975 live ‘Sail On Sailor’. 👏👏👏

Jumping Jack Flash…..WHOA! 👍

Amazon Germany has a release date of Dec. 2nd

Listening on Amazon. OMfG

No further text needed.

This.

Oh Good GOD. Marcella intsrumental. Yowza!

Steamboat instrumental. Tears. Tears.

HYPNOTIZE ME is in there. HOLY FFFFFFF!!!!!

Sail on sailor wow.

I love you Brian

Daddy Dear- Vocals Brian Wilson....my ears don't lie..

Oh my, so many highlights for me here including Gimme Some Lovin, Spark In the Dark, Body Talk, Rooftop Harry and the SOS demo just to name a few.  It's clear Brian was still productive during this period.  My only qualm is some of the edited down tracks like Out In the Country (Version 2) which I know exists in a 5+ minute version.  Presumably some tracks like this are shorter due to the space limitations of CD's.  I always enjoy hearing full, extended versions of songs.  VERY curious to hear what's lurking in the vaults for 1973-1975.  All things considered, major thanks to all involved in getting this set out and cheers to more like it in the near future perhaps.   ;)  

Just got it from ITunes. An hour early (it’s 11 pm, 1 Dec)
Giving at least part of it a listen tonight. Sounds great so far.

Rooftop Harry sounds like Pacific Coast Highway …and the end is VERY similar (melodically) to one of my recent songs…I swear I didn’t hear this before…promise!

The SOS demo …Brian did ALL the cocaine lol …and man it sounds like Live let Live in this version

Brian on Daddy Dear

And wow that WAS Spark in the Dark I heard somehow years ago via a dearly departed friend.

Body Talk is awesome

The biggest revelatory moment was realizing how much of Holland had Brian on backups. I think Sail On Sailor, Steamboat and Leaving This Town are the only ones he’s not present on.

The digital release of the 2-disc set (Deluxe) has the wrong track for "Marcella (Live At Carnegie Hall)". I've checked this on Spotify, Deezer, Qobuz and YouTube: https://youtu.be/g0fa7Izm8Jk (https://youtu.be/g0fa7Izm8Jk)

The 6-disc set (Super Deluxe) has the correct track: https://youtu.be/roQRxEcbWys (https://youtu.be/roQRxEcbWys)

Also, for some reason the Super Deluxe set is missing from Deezer.

Hard Time is such a banger. Blondie and Ricky really added a lot of 'oomph' to their sound.

Pretty huge error, but "Marcella - Live At Carnegie Hall" is actually a repeat of You Need A Mess of Help. How did this not get quality checked? Also saw a typo somwhere.

He's singing on Funky Pretty, Mt Vernon, first half of The Trader (his vocal arrangement) and the beginning of California (in the "spend" as well as his lead), but none of the other songs.

Just listened so far to the Sail On Sailor writing session. Love the return of Brian's scrappy rhythm and blues voice. His speaking voice is heading towards how it will sound on the spoken intro of the 1975 In the Back Of My Mind.

The Carnegie Hall concert is the best live BB release. Full stop. What a show.

So I promise I'm not making this up, but Stephen Desper played what I thought was an acetate over the phone for me in January of 2014.

You can see in my post history that I asked him some questions, he offered to answer them over the phone. We had a long conversation and I mentioned the lost take. He said he had it, I told him how it was a holy grail, he told me to call back a few days later. By then he had found it and played it over the phone.

Like I said, I thought he said it was an acetate, but that was during the first conversation when he first told me he had it, so it's possible he just initially misremembered the format, but you could hear it was relatively low quality.

I really wish I would have recorded it, but didn't even think to at the time, although my wife did come in and hear it. I'm convinced it's Carl, best I can describe it was it sounded like he was sitting on a stool in the corner of a country bar, surprisingly twangy and laid back.

Again, I'm just someone on the internet, so feel free to be skeptical. I only came back here to see if it had made the box and was surprised to see it still hadn't at least been privately passed around given what I thought was Stephen's understanding of its significance.

I ordered the 6 disc set this morning. Can't wait for it to arrive.

Amazing stuff across the board. What a time to live in, to get sets like this.

I've been listening over the last 24 hours, and there's so much cool stuff buried in every corner of these tracks.

I'm all for this set being available in all the different configurations, but really, you gotta get the full deal with all the 105 tracks people. If you can't afford to buy it (and I'm truly aware these days that's a real possibility for a lot of us), still listen to this in all the places you can listen to all of the tracks.

It's all good. Carl with the strings on "Only With You." All those awesome, weird buried backing vocals on "Funky Pretty" and numerous other songs. The live stuff of course.

The early versions of what would later turn into "Lazy Lizzie" and "Walkin' the Line" and "Chain Reaction of Love", and whatever else I'm forgetting.

Hearing Al begin the genesis of "All This Is That."

Blondie and Ricky adding great stuff to the vocals.

Hearing how Brian *is* still there on stuff.

The "Sail on Sailor" work tape is obviously huge, and the only bad thing I can say about it is that, as much as we'd love to hear a Carl vocal on "Sail on Sailor", this tape proves a *Brian lead vocal* would have been just as amazing and makes me wish it existed.

So much stuff on this set truly gets even more to the heart of this weird but amazing time where they really were smack right in between the late 60s and the post-Brian's Back 1975/76/77 era.

Two thoughts so far:
1. Nice version by Al of Tell Laura I Love Her on The Road Not Taken. Also nice version of that song by Bob Dylan on Hurricane.
2. They should have released the version of Make It Good without strings on Disc 1 on CATP.

I'm enjoying what I've heard so far. I headed right for the more Brian-centric tracks, but that's where my interests are and a lot of these tracks are opening up a window to hear what he was doing at this time. He was definitely laying down some of his trademark quirky musical ideas and arrangements, which goes against (yet again) the previous history told that he didn't do much of anything during this time. The guy was still working and cranking out those wonderfully bizarre ideas. A lot of great ideas, and also surprising to hear the layers pulled back a bit to hear more than a few examples of his "Smile era" sounds coming out on these tracks, especially a prominent picked bass with slap echo sound that is more 1966 than 1970's. I liked hearing that.

Just one comment on the SOS demo: We get to hear what sounded like a hit right off the bat. It needed some polishing and some shaping, but for me as a musician it's always a treat to hear the earliest sparks of greatness, when there is something great bursting through the most simple ideas by way of these rambling demo sessions. Kudos too, in retrospect, to Van Dyke who also recognized something great in that rambling tape with all kinds of stream-of-consciousness lyrics and when the label wanted a hit, he had that tape for them and what came out of it was a true classic, perhaps the last truly great, new original Beach Boys song to be released and embraced by fans. What an amazing track.

And listening through the bits and pieces, it's proof yet again that Ricky and Blondie added a lot of rock and roll feel and attitude in their musicianship to the band's sound. And they needed that at this time. I hope this set of music sheds more light on Ricky and Blondie and just how good they were as musicians and as band members trying to fill an impossible void in the band.

Yep, I think later narratives led a lot of folks to wonder "how much" Brian "really" contributed to the composition of "Sail on Sailor", and you can hear on that tape that the basis is pretty much all there. Obviously, a ton of lyrical changes took place later on. But if anybody ever doubted it before, "Sail on Sailor" is as much or more a "Brian Wilson song" as anybody else. And again, I think his voice sounds really good on this too. 1971/72/73 Brian may have been the best "version" of Brian to sing that particular song had he tackled it. I'm sure Carl's lead would have been great, and Blondie's is obviously.

The '75 live stuff sounds good, just as the '75 "I Can Hear Music" sounded great on the MIC set. I hadn't really directly previously looked at the track listing on this thing and pieced together that "1975" means Dennis (probably) drumming on "The Trader", and Billy singing "Sail on Sailor." Great tribute to Billy to give him one of the *very rare* instances of a backing band member getting a lead vocal on an official Beach Boys release.

The Beach Boys' 'Sail On Sailor' Reframes Two Obscure 1970s Albums. Why Were They Obscure In The First Place?


https://www.grammy.com/news/the-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972-boxed-set-brian-wilson-carl-mike-love?fbclid=IwAR3XJPJxX0E4MxGR9qstQ8Ezt5uydEcyOmYnb1vZW8Rlxz7OSEcTIBqAPz4  


EDIT:

I like this visual effect very much they put on the new videos:


The Beach Boys - Only With You (Visualizer)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mqbWut3VG4

Man, I feel bad for fans that just like shut their ears off after 1969 or 1971 or whatever.

I get it, some fans' favorite is "Don't Hurt My Little Sister" and they don't like "Here She Comes", but people, listen to the alternate mixes of "Cuddle Up" or "The Trader", and a bunch of others.

I mean, I think those that ignore the Blondie/Ricky material are missing some good stuff, but even if you ONLY like "Friends" or "Sunflower"-sounding stuff, there's STILL great material here.

What I love about helping compile and create these sets is that we can take this music out of time, separate it from the concept of the album and reposition it into the ERA. "We" don't necessarily need it -- but the new converts need and use it for context. To many, this is how they're being introduced to this music -- Feel Flows did that perfectly. Now, maybe some new/younger fans can't tell the difference these days between what's Sunflower and what's Surf's Up -- but is that the WORST thing? Them hearing it and sharing it and discussing it is the BEST thing.

This is all an outgrowth of the influx of new "blood" from the SMiLE fan base (huge tip of the hat to Darian -- we're really where we're at today because of him and Leaf.) 18 years on, these sets give us a chance to reposition the camera in a way that -- I feel -- illuminates some tracks in a more direct and succinct way. I was insistent early on that the Dennis tracks from CATP should be stripped down to their bare essence, for the basic reason that I'm pretty confident that they'll get TV and film placements with the more natural mix.

That's how this stuff lives on and grows beyond us loving it and passing it along single file to friends and family. I think the fact that this stuff was NOT played in rotation next to "China Grove" and Skynyrd will ultimately be its saving grace. I think this stuff is poised to be devoured NOW.

That said, would've loved to have fit the POOPS version of "Sea Cruise" on to this one. . .

Howie, I am of the opinion that Dennis's instrumental Mexico is absolutely perfect for a movie or TV show.

Joel -- I completely agree.

When Stebbins, Matt Casey and I did the DW BBC doc, Matt overlaid "Mexico" over the tales of Dennis' final days and it was HEAVY.
I had a screening at my place for a few close friends and both David Marks and Blondie were there. Needless to say, everyone was pretty emotional.
Not that it needed that song on top of it -- but man, it underscored all the pain and hopelessness of the situation.

Man, “Rooftop Harry.” Where the heck did that come from? And it’s a precursor, at least in a few melodic phrases, to “From There and Back Again,” on TWGMTR.

The Grammy.com story link without Facebook's nefarious tracking:
https://www.grammy.com/news/the-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972-boxed-set-brian-wilson-carl-mike-love

Hmm .. I could’ve sworn I heard him in the backups of Only With You. I hear him elsewhere on California too in the backup/track mix , unless those were excised from the released version.

I think song placement is the key to spreading the joys of this music to new ears, hands down. It's the way of the world right now. If a song gets placed in the right place, for lack of a better term, it will get more exposure than the record business in general has been able to deliver in 15 years. There should be a concerted effort to target TikTok - I'm not a fan of the platform but that's where old songs find new ears and new life. I can't tell you how many older songs have thrived again with young listeners (under 20) thanks to getting placed in a TikTok meme or something that went viral. The challenge is making it feel organic rather than marketed or forced.

I think Netflix has helped deliver the goods for the band's music perhaps more than any outlet in the past year or two. Obviously Stranger Things gave "California Dreamin" a massive boost...I mean, who was downloading that cover track prior to that show featuring it? Hardly anyone. Now it's among the top BB's tracks in terms of downloads and streams. I posted a topic about another Netflix show "Dead To Me" using the Pet Sounds title instrumental in a penultimate episode, and it got one reply. I hope that exposure translated better on the charts than it did in discussion, and the show also featured "Don't Worry Baby" in episode #1, and featured a large poster of the band in the set design in multiple scenes. So it's getting out there.

It's all about spreading the music to new ears at this point. I could care less about some so-called "fans" kvetching about EQ, mixes, and calling for boycotts. Who cares. If people out there who don't know the Beach Boys were making music like they did in 1970-1973, if they didn't know how diverse and enjoyable their live setlists from that era were, if they didn't know Blondie and Ricky and their contributions, if they didn't know the Pet Sounds instrumental as just heard on Netflix was from the same band who did Kokomo and Surfin USA, that's a good thing. The exposure is spreading with these outlets that are not record shops and record labels.

And they're not competing with rigged algorithms and bots creating artificial view counts as happens with YouTube and other digital platforms.

I hope this music spreads as wide as possible, and above all that people find enjoyment in something new to their ears and perceptions. The entire business of marketing music has changed, and I hope those changes are recognized and tried in terms of marketing. It would be as basic as Sail On Sailor getting into a viral TikTok meme, and it all flows from there.

One of the highlights so far, absolutely. People who wanted to hear what Brian Wilson unfiltered and unfettered in a studio would sound like, this is one of the tracks to hear!

I'm really getting into "Body Talk (Grease Job)" too. That is a really funky groove, and just in its instrumental state alone they could have clipped 30 seconds of it to use as title music for a TV show from that era, or a retro TV or movie from today set in the 70's. I can't explain it but it sounds like it could have fit on a show like What's Happenin'. And it still could.

Really cool music.

Whoa. This set is unbelievable. Above expectations... and expectations were *very* high!!

I have so many thoughts, and I'm not even close to processing it all! But just a few things that stand out to me so far.

Al's Road Not Taken demo is pretty special to my ears. Hearing it followed by the a cappella All This is That is spectacular.

I always sort of suspected Make it Good and Cuddle Up would have been better without the strings... Not that I don't get what Dennis was going for, but man was I right. These songs really shine anew, especially Make it Good!

The Carnegie Hall show is just ... so good. So good. The band is on fire, the sound is impeccable, the energy amazing. Best live recordings of the band I've heard. Better than the In Concert album. I don't know why I was ready to be disappointed by this (maybe because we already had so many of the rarer tracks from this tour on other releases), but the sum really is greater than the parts. Also, they did such a good job on the mix. Not too rough, not too cleaned up, just right in that sweet spot of making you feel like you're in the audience!

Spark in the Dark, Rooftop Harry, Body Talk, and Gimme Some Lovin are, in my view, more of a revelation than the unreleased Brian songs on the last couple of boxed sets, because they fill out the context for the Brian compositions on So Tough and Holland. Adding these four tracks to Marcella, Mess of Help, and Funky Pretty, really shows that Brian had an idea of a new kind of musical direction to take the band. It is wild to imagine where Brian might have taken these ideas if he were still able / willing / capable / desired to / allowed to / or whatever the situation was - to pursue this direction and take the lead on a Beach Boys record in the early 70s.

As someone else already mentioned, Brian wrote everything that mattered of Sail on Sailor himself; they just needed the right verse lyrics, which obviously they eventually got to through some trial and error.

The Holland tracks / backing vocals are so incredibly rich and detailed. They represent, in my view, a band undeniably firing on all cylinders. Any narrative that posits Holland as a sort of "last gasp" just doesn't hold up anymore. No one is gasping here. The band has obviously been building towards this moment through tons of hard work and creativity, and seeing the era laid out as a whole makes that so clear. In Holland, the band (under Carl's guiding hand, I presume) integrated the divergent strengths Dennis, Mike, Al, Blondie, Ricky, Carl, and Brian had brought to the table on So Tough into a coherent sound and approach, which is a spectacular accomplishment.

One last thought, for now:

I think that our culture has finally gotten away from the stranglehold the boomer generation had on the history of rock and pop. This has had some dramatic effects. Disco, which I was somehow taught to despise as a classic-rock child of the 90s, is now rightly seen as a path-breaking genre with a far more lasting impact than hard rock. And bands like the Beach Boys are finally coming out of the shadow of how they intersected with popular taste and being seen as artists defined by how they approached their music, rather than by how audiences received it.

This phenomenon is not limited to the Beach Boys. Paul McCartney's solo work has increasingly come out of the shadow of the Beatles career. The hyper-critical response to RAM in the 1970s looks downright bizarre from the vantage of 2022. Similarly, the traditional narrative I was sold on Dylan's career also doesn't make sense anymore. The idea that Dylan had a spectacular flowering of creativity in the mid-60s, then retreated, only emerging with "last gasp" albums Blood on the Tracks and Desire, is, to those of us who didn't live through it, divorced from reality. Rather, Dylan looks like an artist who continually evolved from 1962 to 1976, putting out incredible album after incredible album as he pursued new styles and interests.

No one cares how many people bought Carl and the Passions, So Tough anymore. It mattered then, it doesn't matter now. The series of boxed sets that have come out since the Smile Sessions in 2011 demonstrate unequivocally that the Beach Boys were vital, important, living, evolving artists from 1963 to 1973, a single astonishing outburst of creative energy that did not relent until the mid-70s.

Bingo…hindsight really is 20/20 (and So Tough, and Holland, and…). A lot of artists unfairly derided as square have found a new life with Gen Z. Growing up I was made fun of for being a Billy Joel fan, for instance. He’s another artist popular with the younger set. Those who think stuff like this due to stuff like TikTok and Stranger Things (not referring to you GF…I see this a lot and you reminded me of it!) are only partially correct… this is the first generation that has an appreciation of what came before. My generation (Gen X) wouldn’t mark out if we heard an older song on a tv show or movie! If it wasn’t new, it was lame! One of the side effects of it being easy to distribute music these days is that people are generally more educated musically on a informal basis… if someone wants to learn music theory, instead of going to college and hearing a dry course, bring on Rick Beato!  There’s a far greater appreciation of music now , regardless of what grandpa and grandma are saying on the other board.

The funny this is… those pop culture moments are a great introduction…but notice how the newer fans of things end up gravitating towards other things? Fleetwood Mac’s Dreams went viral…but two years on, “Everywhere” is getting hyped. I found out Christine McVie died when my daughter texted me…they were talking about it in her school. Kate Bush was already popular with the younger set before Stranger Things. I can usually tell now when someone from the past is about to get popular again .

As a  side note, this is why A&R reps being too much older than the artists is a horrible idea on this day, but I digress.
 

This also explains why a certain subset of “fans” are acting like complete douche waffles and making personal attacks on those who worked so hard to bring this to the fans 😒

Can we also acknowledge, thanks to the a capella Marcella, that it WAS Brian in the tag singing the high-ish “Marcella heyyyy” and NOT Jack (who did a small “Hey Marcella” in a lower voice while Brian was singing)?

https://music.youtube.com/watch?v=b399XCqDbcY&feature=share

2:39 is Brian, Jack comes in at 2:42

*drops mic*

Billy -- as Brian told me re: "Marcella": "One of my favorites, yeah. Carl did a great job, he was really good. 'Marcella,' y'know, I'm gonna tell ya, I was having mental difficulties during that time and I didn't even know if the guys got in the studio and recorded 'Marcella' without me on it! So, I said, 'I wanna be on it!' So I overdubbed my voice on it."

Yeah. If anyone ever asks again why the Beach Boys would cover that song.... that's why!







Some of Dennis' songs actually have great potential for being used in movie/TV series etc. "My Love lives on" could be played during a series finale (of course depending on the story). It probably could even be used as a motif during the actual series. Imagine just parts of the song being played and the whole song only gets heared at the climax of the series.

Brian's part was completely absent from the original mix though, sadly. It is Carl singing "Marcella hey" on an Eb while Jack harmonizes "hey Marcella" beneath - the console strip even marks "Carl and Jack" for that track. Brian's over on the right soon after singing a squeaky little "ooh, I need ya, deh-deh" on G and improvising other lines, and doubling his elfish "deh-deh" on another track later. Exactly the kind of thing he described to Howie where he just plugged in an extra part on his own after the others had been in. We're blessed with a lot of new Brian elf voice moments on this release.

This is one song where I think the new mixes really bring out the 'Beach Boysness' that it was missing - the pinball machine vibes in the chorus, horns, growly edge to the Moog bass, Wurli proto-Bread riff, more audible pounding piano, and having Brian's voice on the end add a ton of life to the track. Hearing all this, it sounds as if Carl consciously wanted to veer away from the eccentric ideas to more conventional rock territory in the mixdown, but the arrangement just wasn't built to support that kind of thing with enough oomf. It's better off being spooky and weird.

BTW Mike & Bruce will appear at Carnegie Hall on Monday.


‘It's heart music and we need it in this world’: John Stamos on Beach Boys concert


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyzkZKjQw08



(Sorry  ;D )

This has already been voiced, as respectfully as possible, but why equate legitimate complaints (from *both* young and old fans alike) about mildly-severely suboptimal mixing/mastering on portions of these recent sets with personal attacks? Hardly any of it resorts to ad hominem.

We're all grateful, but there is distinct and very noticeable over-compression in places, distortion on certain tracks, hiss, bizarre EQ'ing choices, and so on. Makes for an uncomfortable listening experience at times. Don Goldberg's vocals were nixed when this was a chance to give his and BW's song a little justice. Less of a grave mistake, maybe, but still, definitely worth noting.

Oh, and I'm in my early 20s, myself, like many others with grievances, so I'm not exactly a "grandpa" or anything, just someone with ears who wants the absolute best for the Beach Boys' music, above all.

.

Did anyone who purchased this set directly from the Beach Boys' store receive it yet?  And if you have, did they send you a shipping confirmation email from them prior to delivery?  I've received neither the box set nor any email informing me that it's on its way.  This is so frustrating.   :-[

No, no set & no shipping confirmation for me either. All I got was the e-mail saying I’d get a shipping confirmation & that was many weeks ago.

😎 Am I the only one who read that and heard it in Brian’s 1995 speaking voice? 🙂

That is so awesome…

I’m referring to a couple of specific people who have indeed made personal attacks, including someone who posts under the name “tomtomplayboy” elsewhere. Some saggy dude  used the word “scum” which would also fit the bill. That’s the stuff I’m specifically referring to. Criticism is one thing…

Hmm…that would explain why Jack said Brian sang that part… didn’t think to ask if it was an unused  overdub!

I could not agree more! I have found "Make It Good" unlistenable for a long time, but dropping the strings out reveals a far more interesting and listenable song. "Cuddle Up" also benefits from having the strings dropped out, but I find them less disruptive than the strings in MIG.

100% agree…I always thought it was overwrought…this works.

It just dawned on me this is the very first archival compilation where there is not a single track I skip

Did you receive your set though or are you still waiting on it?

Still waiting

A friend of mine got neither from his order from The Beach Boys' store.

Do these sound like they were recorded in the “wrong” speed to you? Cause to some, they are 🙄

 I always found make it good to be difficult to listen to too many strings too much overpowering of the vocals. I think removing the strings makes this song brilliant. The same to some degree with cuddle up. Though I never had as much trouble listening to cuddle up as I did listening to make it good.

Just had a listen to a couple of live tracks. Al's lead on "Don't worry Baby" is insane!  :thud

That track really blew me away when I heard it! Damn near tear inducing!!

One thing I noticed is that "Steamboat" to me sounds distorted and a bit "overloaded" in general. The actual mix of it was great. I heard details I'd never heard before. But it sounded almost too loud  or something.

Just got the shipping confirmation email. Shipping from Austin TX via Federal Express

Well I just got confirmation that this damn thing has been shipped.  But seeing that it's currently in TX and I live in GA, chances are it will be a few days before I can get my hands on it.  Needless to say I won't be ordering anything directly from their official store again.  It's Amazon all the way. 

It really is one of his best ever lead vocals.  Much better than the In Concert version, which itself isn't shabby.

I agree. This version should have been used instead.

I just noticed that on both Youtube and Spotify the track "Marcella" from disc 1 is "Mess of Help", and that song appears on disc 1 twice.

Amazing right??

I always felt Steamboat was one of the strongest tracks on the album for its unique misty, moody driving beat. This instrumental just shows the richness in the details that Dennis (and I guess Carl?) put into it. Great, great track!

I really don't understand the point of the 2022 "Saga Trilogy". They could have put on the other Mt Vernon home demo instead. I also think it would be cool to hear some actual alternate takes of songs, instead of just a few sessions highlights.

Awesome

I've really enjoyed this set. I am hoping that there will be a digital part 2 before the end of the year as I am sure that there is other stuff (namely the DW stuff from the Bandcamp "release" last year) that should come out from this era.

Finally listened to the whole thing today. Only disappointment was the new mix of Here She Comes. The new master on the original albums sound great.

Very well written Howie!

These sets have greatly enlarged Dennis' stature as a musician and an artist. What an incredible output he had from 69 onwards. All these sets from I Can Hear Music, through Feel Flows and now with Sail On Sailor are brimming with his creative talent. Just having the instrumental for Steamboat highlights his highly perceptive instinct for intricate and unconventional melodies. One begins to wonder if the Beach Boys as a musical outlet limited him because it seems less than 1/3 of what he wrote and produced made it to the record buying audiences back then. A great shame in some ways but incredible to have this material presented in such a fine set as Sail On Sailor. Absolutely gobsmacked by this release!!

Steamboat has long been one of my favorites, and I've long wondered what the backstory was to the writing and arranging. To my ears it is poetic, moving and really quite unique in their catalog. Very excited to hear this!

 

It has been mentioned in interviews that Al wanted to shorten "Beaks of Eagles." I think most of us both understand how seemingly arbitrary and kind of pointless this seems to be (e.g. if you think the thing is "pretentious" or something along those lines, then cutting out just one of the spoken interludes isn't going to fix *that*), while also understanding that this sounds like a classic Al rando nitpick.

From there, just using some deduction and observational skills knowing how these things work and how these guys work, I'd wager Al wanted to edit the song, and it was (rightly of course) pointed out that the *original* album cannot and should not be edited. Thus, the only way to present his "edit" of the trilogy while keeping the full trilogy otherwise intact and in context, was to do what was done at the end of the set.

I think this is another case of understanding the band's history in general and particularly their attitude towards archival projects, where concessions are made for the greater good. So if Al wants to re-do the bass on "Seasons in the Sun", or edit "Beaks of Eagles", or if Mike wants a new guitar solo on "Goin' to the Beach", these are things that are relatively easily accommodated, and allows the band member to feel better about it, to little or no detriment to the project, and gets the project out the door.

And, while this particular "Eagles" edit is perplexing in classic Al fashion, as a *general rule* I think it's a good thing for the guys to want to be involved and in the loop on this stuff beyond just signing off on it. I mean, while it can obviously quickly go haywire, I feel in principle that it feels good to see the guys taking an interest in this stuff.

I recall a slightly similar situation with the Beatles and "Anthology 2", where they prepped the full, unedited version of "You Know My Name (Look Up the Number)", but George Harrison listened to it and thought it was too self-indulgent, and reportedly/allegedly picked a bit to edit out himself. He ironically edited out a portion that had been in the "original" release of the song, thus fans quickly just edited the two versions together to get the longest possible version. I suspect if/when that song is ever touched on in a future Beatles archival set, we'll probably get the full, unedited thing.

I've definitely never been shy about saying that "Make It Good", while truly interesting and impressive in its scope and willingness to diversify their sound, has always been somewhat difficult to easily digest. The stripped back mixes of "Make It Good" and "Cuddle Up" on this set  are revelatory and indispensable. I like "Make It Good" even more now, and certainly many other newer fans/listeners will be able to get at the song easier potentially, and it's also of course always interesting and instructive to hear stripped-back mixes.

Also, regarding a previous comment about wanting alternate takes of songs, I'm not sure how much of that stuff there is once you get into the later era, particularly the 70s. I don't think there's the same kind of full hours of take-after-take of backing tracks like with a lot of the 60s stuff, with an engineer calling out "Take 37!" So unless there's something notable and different about it, I'm not sure if there's much value in putting like a half-finished, aborted backing track take of "Hold on Dear Brother" that sounds just like the finished backing track, only with some stray note and then the whole take stopping. At that point, it makes much more sense, if one is inclined to present a backing track (or backing track with backing vocals) to use a finished take. 

I'm thorugh with CD 1. Man, what a treat! I can't wait to hear the rest. There's certainly a lot to analyze but one thing that I just wondered while listening to the alternate "Cuddle up": Is that Dennis on the falsetto part (and possibly a couple of other voices)? It doesn't sound like Carl nor Brian. Neither like Al. But it has a certain instability that makes me guess it's Dennis.

Not sure, but Billy may be in the mix.

Some of those high parts seem to be Dennis to my ears, yes.

These group vocals man, these guys were *all* even more amazing than we all already knew. Individually and collectively. Dennis was in his prime, Carl was great as always, Brian was sounding strong when he was there, Al was right there with Carl, and every time you hear Mike bring in the bass vocals, it's just beyond description. Individual voices and harmonies are both second to none here.

One can argue with how toe-to-toe you can take all of this era's material to other top contemporaries, but on top of great songs, this band was truly unmatched vocally. Every member should have been singing a full album's worth of stuff in this era. Everybody should have had a solo album on top of multiple Beach Boys albums.

While we're at it, who on earth does the "dom dom kindom" part? It sounds like Billy to me.

That's pretty much what I was getting at. It just seems like a "just for the hell of it" decision that really doesn't have a point.

I get your point. I just think it would have been cool to hear a "take 1" or "take 2" of something. For example, I've always wondered if Marcella might have started out sounding more like the live arrangement in the early stages.

I always assumed it was Blondie (?)

I think you highlight one of my main issues with CATP and Holland as albums and that's their "inferior" mixing. This set has proved that there was so much going on - so many ideas and interesting use of instruments and vocals that really would bring the songs more to life than in their released format.

I personally think Carl was being conservative with the mixing and wanted to be conventional because that's the image he wanted to convey of Beach Boys. No longer the teeny 60s band of public perception but a serious rock band making serious music more in line with attitudes of the early 70s. He was desperately trying to elevate them from being "The Beach Boys" TM but maybe he went to far because those quirky, spooky and weird things are what makes the Beach Boys music so unique, timeless and endearing.

Gotta be Billy. No?

Pay close attention to the way he sings/pronounces the "dom" in the word kingdom. It doesn't sound like any group members to me, except possibly Dennis.

It very much is Dennis, not Billy.

I suspect, given that by this point they were recording and paying for the sessions themselves, they might not even keep aborted takes. They may well have taped over them.

That being said, it's surprising to me that we haven't had full-length instrumental / vocal mixes of albums other than Pet Sounds. Would love to hear Sunflower that way, for example.

Hey, what song are you saying may have sprung "Walkin' the Line"?

Gimme Some Lovin' / I Need Your Love

...and what a revelation it is!   :-D

Very much enjoying the Box set. My favorite part is the Carnegie live discs though. They were just such a great live act during this period. If I had to compare the feel flows and sail on Sailor box sets I think of the two I prefer feel flows. Just happens to be that sunflower is my favorite recording of theirs next to pet sounds. But this one is really good too. I'm not sure what they would do for the next box release but I'm thinking it would probably be some sort of a live set. They were such a dynamic touring  group live during this time and even mid to late 70s

"I Need Your Love" has several bits that seem pretty similar. As with many things that were later repurposed, it's a fascinating mixture of bits of melody, lyric, chords, and bass line (and not all at the same time) that seem to have been revisited many years later.

Listened to the set yesterday, remastering really brought out CATP and Holland in a way the two-fers didn’t.

It was a different method of recording overall as the industry transitioned from 2 to 3 to 4 and then up to 8 and 16 track into the 70's, and you don't have those fly-on-the-wall journal reels where you capture the entire band (or most of the musicians) playing in the same room at the same time. The notion of capturing a room sound wasn't as important as capturing each individual instrument in its own space, apart from the backing rhythm tracks (drums, bass, scratch parts, etc.). The tapes just didn't capture the kind of chatter that we love from the 60's unless someone was running a backup reel or a journal reel constantly as was done in the 60's to capture it all.

On point with your comment about paying for tape, there's a moment on the live portion of the set where Mike mentions they're recording the Carnegie concerts and tells a loud fan in the crowd to be quiet, mentioning the cost of tape or something (I'll have to relisten). So that is a valid point too, apart from the change in recording methods. Although they could have run a 1/4" or 1/2" catch-all journal reel on sessions and that wouldn't have cost much.

I have been listening to the set on Spotify and have been blown away.  Both CATP and Holland sound great and I love the remixes.  It's a shame that the did not get more airplay back in the day.  But I'm even more impressed with the live stuff - they sound so tight yet loose and their joy for the music and playing really shines through.  I love the intro and arrangement on Do It Again, Wild Honey.  Darlin' sounds great too.  And Jumpin' Jack Flash?  WOW!  This set also leads me to ask why was We Got Love left off Holland?  That could have been a staple on FM radio.  However, if I can nitpick, to me the only thing missing from this set is a raucous live version of Sail On Sailor with Blondie singing the lead.  Perhaps that can be made available as a digital download?  With that in mind, I hope the next release is an expanded IN CONCERT.

I was really bummed, as I imagine a lot of others were, about how quickly (and unannounced) that Bandcamp release came and went. I didn't even suspect the Beach Boys as having a Bandcamp account, nor does it look like they have anything available to view/purchase on Bandcamp now (so how did anyone even know to look there last year?)...so, what outlets are folks checking for any possible quickie releases? I'd hate to miss out again if there are known places one should be keeping an eye on. Thanks for any input!

A couple notes about the booklet:

Just received my LP set and finished reading the booklet. I really enjoyed it, aside from a few typos it's nicely done. As an editing nerd I'm always amazed at how many little errors make it into things. VERY minor complaint and thrilled to have the set!

However, has anyone else noticed missing text on page 6 (the top of page 6 in my booklet starts mid-sentence, and is not a continuation of the text from page 5)? I have no idea how much content is missing here, whether it's a couple words or if there's something more notable.

Second, at the end (the credits page), under the Carnegie Hall credits, I'm confused about how it lists the "supporting musicians 1972", then the vocalists (including Bruce Johnston), and then the "supporting musicians on live recording"--is this suggesting there were, as often is the case, musicians used for non-live (i.e. studio sweetening?) recordings for the Carnegie material, or is this just strangely worded?  It's all under the Carnegie Hall credits, so it doesn't seem to be referencing musicians who were involved at various points throughout the year, but rather suggests that all were involved in the CH shows. Anyone care to clarify?

Forgive me if this has been answered: Is it Dennis singing the 'dom dom... king-dooom' part on 'Radio King Dom'? Really sounds like him. Have we had a whole break down on the Beach Boys that have played and or sang on the Fairy tale EP?

It's beautiful, isn't it? And the background vocals actually reminde me of Smile.
"Steamboat" seemed always be the perfect song for an album called "Holland" to me. When I think of Holland, I think of these boats floating along the canals.

I remember reading a review of Holland years ago on the internet. It was on a Beach Boys fansite, I believe, and I don't remember who wrote it. Actually it may have been a member of this board. Anyway, paraphrasing he understood "Steamboat"'s chorus ("Don't worry Mr. Fulton, we'll keep your steamboat goin'") as something like Dennis (and Carl) were singing to Brian and Brian was Mr. Fulton and the steamboat was the Beach Boys. Now, he didn't say it was written with that in mind, it was just his interpretation. But since reading it I can't get it out of my head when listening to the song. It's such a moving interpretation. So kudos to the unknown (to me) person who came up with that idea!







I wondered about that, too. I always thought it was Ricky (compare this with the tone of his singing voice and imagine this in double tracked) but it may very well be Blondie. If you listen to his singing on "Leaving this Town" you'll find that he's singing in a similar "clear" way compared to his more raucous style.
But I would definitely rule out Dennis.

Wow, I agree. That's lovely!

The only thing about this box set is the guitar solo on Don't Worry Bill.   It sounds awful compared to the bootleg version and the version that was on the Endless Harmony CD. Should have let it be.

BTW is the picture on page 34 of Carnegie Hall actually from around the Beach Boys show? There is an advertisement for the show in the window but that could've been photoshopped as well.

I’m listening right now on Spotify and it freaking says “Make it Good- Aternate Version”… that typo is driving me nuts!!!

Btw…after hearing the alternate Marcella it’s very clear now it’s Carl doing the Marcella Hey part on the tag… which seriously makes me wonder how I ended up with a snippet of Brian singing it in the first place. I had done an extraction mix on a version of Marcella I “acquired” from someone many of us knew (who has since passed)…not a bootleg, a copy of So Tough …I think it was a needle drop. Can’t remember as I no longer have my original Facebook account. Could there be a possibility that this could be a We Got Love/Holland situation where there was a mispressing, and somehow the wrong mix slipped under the radar for decades?

If anybody here downloaded it when I posted it all those years ago from RapidShare , please let me know. This was two laptops ago!

Tidal have the entire set in Dolby Atmos. Presumably an upmix?

Beach Boys Look Back at Band’s Early-‘70s Shift Toward FM Rock in New ’Sail On Sailor’ Collection
Mike Love, Alan Jardine and Blondie Chaplin talk about one of the group's most fertile, and possibly underrated, periods, newly captured and annotated in a deluxe boxed set built around the 'Holland' and 'Carl and the Passions — So Tough' albums.


https://variety.com/2022/music/news/beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-box-set-mike-love-alan-jardine-blondie-chaplin-1235458609/?

Thanks, this is great!

I thought it was Brian's idea, not Al's, to rename the group The Beach?

Quite a poignant ending there from Blondie, worth reading to the end:

And then working with [Brian] the last six, seven years, that’s been a gas, too. We get along. Because we were close for that one little time, Dennis, Carl and Brian, and he knew about the Flame and everything like that, there was like a mutual respect. I think I remind [Brian] of his brothers, with that connection, you know?

I don't know if the LP's booklet differs from the 6 CD set's but it indeed can seem a little confusing because of the superscriptions. "Supporting musicians 1972" means the people who worked on the studio recordings. There's a separate section for the musicians on the live tracks (Carnegie Hall as well as the bonus material) and also for the studio musicians for 1973.

Over on the Hoffman board, at least a few posters are convinced that the Carnegie Hall recordings were sweetened with studio vocals from the era. The instances mentioned are the She Don't Know vocals on Mess of Help and the chorus of Marcella. Personally, I can't hear it, but if it's listed this way in the booklet that makes it seem far more likely. I don't really care one way or the other, it sounds amazing and that's what matters - but I would be very curious to know if it's true, and if so which parts of which songs are effected! (The conversation starts on page 57 of the long Sail On Sailor thread over on that board, if anyone's interested in investigating... )

I don't know if the LP's booklet differs from the 6 CD set's but it indeed can seem a little confusing because of the superscriptions. "Supporting musicians 1972" means the people who worked on the studio recordings. There's a separate section for the musicians on the live tracks (Carnegie Hall as well as the bonus material) and also for the studio musicians for 1973.



[/quote]

Yes, the booklets do vary slightly. The layout of the CD set is less confusing (to me), and I would have read it the way you suggested--that the supporting musicians were just those throughout the year on the studio recordings, whereas the LP booklet made it look to me like it was possibly referencing the live recordings.  Also, the LP booklet omits the "lead vocals by" listings for the Holland album, but they're listed in the CD booklet. I would have assumed most things like this would simply be Copy/Paste, more or less, in terms of the actual text, but apparently not!

One of my favorites of the SOS box is the track/backing vocals for The Trader. Is it just me, or is Bruce on this track? Knowing he left before the Holland sessions, I wasn't expecting to hear him (or what I think might be him) on this song. Do we have a definitive list of the song(s) he was involved in for '72?  I thought I heard him one other track on the SOS box set but am drawing a blank on which it was. Good excuse to listen again  :)

PM sent...

It's been known for years that Bruce sings on "California Saga (on my way to sunny ...)" but I never could point his voice out until the track + bg vocals on the new set. He's very prominent on that.

I'd guess he may be on "Marcella" as they played (or lipsynched to) that song on a dutch TV show which included Bruce.

The recording of Marcella was finished in Feb 72 before they came over to The Netherlands to attend the Grand Gala Du Disque (Feb25th) and perform on Dutch pop show TopPop (on Feb 24th). When the lipsynch performance was done the song still was logged under its original title One Arm Over My Shoulder. But when it was broadcasted on Dutch TV on May 2nd the song obviously was announced as Marcella (C&tP-ST) was released by then.

But in short, Bruce was definitely involved on Marcella.

He and Carl sing all the vocal parts in the verses. Other than that and California, Bruce isn't singing on anything else they recorded that year.

We Got Love was on the version of Holland that was rejected by Warner Bros. because they felt it lacked a good single. The album originally led off with Steamboat (which while a fine song is fairly mellow to be an opening track on a Beach Boys album) and We Got Love ended Side 1, coming after California Saga. When Sail On Sailor was added as the opening track, We Got Love was taken off to make room, though apparently some early German pressings came out with the original rejected track listing by mistake.

But clearly the band really liked the song, they kept it in their set list until Ricky left the group and including it on the In Concert album probably gave some incentive for fans to hear a “new song”.

Also, in the realm of "what could have been", I don't think "We Got Love" actually would have been an FM staple, considering that "Sail on Sailor", the song that seemed by many accounts to get the most FM traction and later "classic rock" radio airplay, didn't even really become a "staple" as such, but rather was simple "oh, that's the only Beach Boys song I remember hearing on that station" status.

None of this has any relation to the actual quality of the material. I dig "We Got Love", and obviously a ton of the material from this era seemingly *should have* gotten more traction on radio and on the charts and in the general popular music discussion, based on the actual *quality* of the material. There were obviously other factors at play, and as such, I think "We Got Love" would have been less recognized than "Sail on Sailor" was, and even "Sail on Sailor" didn't get the full recognition on all counts that it should have, despite even *reemerging* on the singles charts briefly later on. I mean, c'mon, it transcends just being a really good single. It is/should be evergreen/masterpiece status. The band did it a disservice by ever dropping it from the setlist, as least as long as Carl was there to sing it if nobody else could or wanted to.

Although meaningless, Sail On Sailor made it on this list:


The Best Box Sets of 2022


https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/the-best-box-sets-of-2022-1234647516/? (https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/the-best-box-sets-of-2022-1234647516/?)



Speaking of publicity, am I wrong or is there less hype about "Sail on Sailor" than for "Feel flows"? I seem to remember that the latter got more press but maybe I'm misremembering or my impression was totally wrong.

One possibility is the surprise people had a year ago. ‘What…That surf group were more than surfing and cars?’. The unknown is now known.

Just my 2 cents.

we also had 171 pages discussing Feel Flows, and the topic is still pinned at the top for some reason. we're up to 10 pages for SOS.

what gives?

I think it's safe to say the delays and multiple months of confusion regarding the status of the Feel Flows set and speculation about what might have been going on behind-the-scenes were a significant factor in the amount of discussions that quickly accumulated leading up to the eventual release of the box set. Plus, it was the first time in a decade we'd gotten a truly massive release from The Beach Boys camp -- I can't think of any release that has rivaled the scope and ambition of 'Feel Flows' since 'The SMiLE Sessions' box set. I too, am surprised there hasn't been/isn't more discussion about the new set (my post a few pages ago wondering if anyone could highlight which tracks might have previously circulated and which tracks are new to even collectors has gone unanswered  :lol )

This being said I finally got to give a listen to one of the discs in this set (I chose CD6 for new studio content) and WOW this is everything I was hoping it would be. The 'Mount Vernon and Fairway' are wonderful, the 30-40 seconds of a cappella "Radio King Dom" is literally a dream of mine. The boys have done it again!

I haven't listened to SOS yet as it's under my tree for Sunday so I am sure there may be a handful of people not chiming in who don't have the box yet (or were waiting on purpose).

First off, Merry Xmas to all SS folks--and, as always, kudos to our stalwart moderators. Regarding the Feel Flows thread: ~3/4ths of that thread occurred during the seemingly interminable "delay" phase, which explains its length. Many of us (including yours truly) were stoking the fires there regularly for a protracted period of time. Once the set arrived, it had a treasure trove of unreleased material, whereas SOS '72 is less abundant in that regard. Also the energy surrounding the actual release was extremely high, given the drawn-out drama involved with it...and that explains the extra level of attention it received from commenters.

Let's not mince words: SOS '72 is an overpriced set, and I suspect that a fairly sizable number of die-hard BB fans may have chosen NOT to purchase it just yet, hoping for an eventual price drop. If they purchased the "starter set" (2-CD/2-LP versions) instead, they just don't have that much to comment about.

And, frankly, the set demonstrates (IMO, at least) that the band's creative momentum was starting to run its course. The circumstances behind the great collective burst of songwriting--the home studio--would dissipate in tandem with the HOLLAND project. Carl's impetus to write songs came about in large part due to Jack Rieley's encouragement, and when Jack devised his exit strategy (a variation on "jump before you're pushed"...), that momentum slowed even further. While Brian's [EDIT: unreleased] tracks on SOS '72 remain intriguing, they also remain defiantly incomplete: they appear to be casualties of the HOLLAND adventure and the loss of easy access to studio time (as well as Brian's escalating habit of leaving things incomplete). There is no sense that any of these Brian tracks were given much consideration for HOLLAND even at the point in time when there was only one Brian song ("Funky Pretty") in the track lineup.

Similarly, Blondie and Ricky's material was only fitfully suitable for a Beach Boys LP. That's not meant as a knock on the songs; but, really, the only track of theirs that fits with any real sense of comfort into the context of the band is "Leaving This Town," which lands itself in an interesting twilight region between the predilections of The Flame and the range of characteristics found in post-GV Beach Boys music. So getting a listen to their tracks that were left off HOLLAND is interesting, pleasurable, but not revelatory.

SOS '72 shows the band revving up as a live act to find a path through the forest back to commercial viability and to stake a claim for the creativity of the members of the group not named Brian Wilson. But there's a subtle undercurrent of burnout that comes through in terms of the songwriting--possibly because there were extra demands on them at the time. In short, too many LPs in too short a time. Yes, "product" was needed to keep moving in a forward direction. And the band couldn't rely on Brian to write them any hits, even though "Marcella" and "Sail On Sailor" should've been hits. With Brian going further underground, and with continuing friction/uncertainty about how to assimilate Dennis' material, the upcoming creative impasse is a slow-moving train wreck coming the band's way, and we find it full swing by the time IN CONCERT is released. The next year ENDLESS SUMMER flips the script; the band fights against it for awhile, but with the creative impasse fully in place, they will ultimately yield to it (and, really, how could they not...the power of that past was--and is--too strong).

That might explain why there seems to be a sense of anti-climax about SOS '72. I think the package will succeed in rescuing the reputation of CATP and further burnishing HOLLAND. But moving forward in time, there's really no follow-through from there. What 's unfortunate is that the great push from late '67-early '69 as documented in the (mostly digital) releases that augment SMILEY SMILE, WILD HONEY, FRIENDS and 20/20 are likely to remain under-appreciated in the context of a revaluation of the band: I think Howie and Mark and Alan should put their heads together and look to pitch a set that takes the best of the material from the digital releases and ties it in with a re-release of those three albums in a physical box set.

There's a narrative there that can be constructed from the flood of material that came out in those sets, and a coherent, compelling throughline could emerge from that capable of reaching those who've come on board with the last two archival releases. Some live snippets can be added, along (perhaps) with a new, expanded version of "Stack-o-Tracks" as a bonus CD, taking advantage of the fact that 25-30 tracks can be comfortably included. Technology should also permit additional track/backing vocal presentations for selected tracks.

What we have on SOS '72 is just fine for what it is. But, as has so often been the case, the band's ongoing frictions have resulted in some suboptimal uses of these archival sets. I think there's a way to remedy that with the '67-'68 material, if folks get creative about how to approach it. I think if they want to keep the momentum going, returning to that material with a updated game plan is better than trying to make something work with what's in the vaults for the '73-'75 period.

I have a lot more to say about all of this, and I disagree with a lot of what’s expressed in the previous post, but I have to speak briefly to the potential direction for the archival program.

While I’m not opposed to reissuing the post-“Sunshine Tomorrow” late 60s archival sets in CD/deluxe set form at some point somehow, I really don’t view is as nearly as much of a priority as moving forward through the post-1973 material.

Yes, of course, there is going to have to be some re-orienting of the target/intended audience for such releases. I think the people involved in these sets understand how some material is going to have to be targeted more directly to “hardcore” fans. We may well not see such album-specific packages.

What we may well see is a multi-pronged approach where material is reformatted/reintroduced to new potential fans (and this is where working in some of that 1967-69 archival material could work), while also continuing to do the important work of documenting what is STILL a trove of quality unreleased material post-1973.

Newer, younger fans can be turned on to more BB material without giving up more deep-dive archival releases. We’re finally at a stage where the band are greenlighting *multi-disc* sets of 70s outtakes. This is huge. I think it’s important to use the momentum, to use the band finally understanding the intrinsic value of the archival material, to make sure we hear the best unreleased material from the rest of the 70s and even 80s.

Also, as to the issue of friction/politics within the BB organization and how that impacts these deluxe releases, I think what we have is really the best-case scenario (at least while the band members are still with us). Let's remember how things were 5 or 10 or certainly 20-plus years ago. The politics were worse, and it was like pulling teeth to get *any* Brother-era material released. It was like a miracle to get the end of the second disc of "Hawthorne, CA" to include a few early 70s tracks.

Yes, the band members are still involved. And the people working on these sets know how to work both with and around all of that. Al wants to do a weird re-edit on the "Saga" trilogy? Why not? Is it worth tanking the set to tell him no? This way, we get the set, Al gets to feel involved, and while that particular edit seems useless to most fans, as a general rule having the band members involved is a *good* thing.

As we move past 1973, there's going to be more and more material that involves these other members. And there's stuff from ALL of them from 1974 through the 80s that I want to hear, and there is quality material there.

Would I rather hear a disc of "MIU" outtakes at this point that I've never heard, rather than seeing a physical reissue of "Live Sunshine?" Yes, absolutely. Ideally, we'll get both. And as I said earlier, I don't think they should stop looking at ways to push progressive, lesser-known material to new/younger fans, and that will mean sometimes re-showcasing some late 60s stuff because there is a limit to how much of an influx of new fans we're going to get from hearing a pristine alternate version of "Oh, Darlin'." But ALL of the this stuff should be released.

And I really don't like the idea of backsliding back into re-forgetting the post-60s stuff.

I've wanted to do a long post for a while but just haven't had the energy to do so.

Anyways though, has anybody pointed out that Brian is singing some kinda lyrics during "Spark in the Dark"? Maybe it was more of a song and less of a "jam" than we were lead to believe.

Jude, you do realize that it will be 3-4 years before anything like the magnitude of what's appeared on FF and SOS will be feasible, per the copyright extension mandate? That means that what we're likely to see in 2023-25 is essentially restricted to a live set.


"Post-'73," yes. But, specifically, 1973-75? Not seeing it. AGD's session logs at Bellagio show primarily Dennis material in that time frame, which is tied mostly to POB.

Keep in mind that the '67-'69 stuff got restricted to digital due in part to the politics at that time. Given the mountain of material there, which gives the FF period a run for its money and is demonstrably more prolific in nature than SOS because Brian is much more active during that time, it seems like a time frame that should be revisited now that the band members are more on board with the archival program as a physical manifestation of their legacy.


Nowhere did I suggest that they shouldn't continue with combing through the 70s material. The tacit consensus seems to be that there will be a set to exploit the golden age of the live band, followed by some form of a multi-set that will document the "Brian is back" era (15BO and Love You, plus possibly Adult Child). But that set isn't likely to see the light of day till 2026. Going back and doing more lavish justice to part one of the "Bellagio period" is something that can be put together and appear anytime between mid-2023 and late 2025.

The point I was making was that with momentum from the band now in place, doing full justice to what were essentially copyright dumps that happened for SS/WH/Friends/2020 would be a good way to use the time in between future likely releases. While the first two (SS/WH) got a physical release, they were nothing like what was done on FF and SOS. And Friends/2020 was just a download. That's what I was referring to in my post as "suboptimal." You want young fans to have little or no added guidance to that pivotal period other than a digital download? Die-hard fans bought that, and we did so because that's all they would give us. They can do better in terms of representing that period, and they have time to do that before they get to MIU/LA/KTSA.

As far as hearing MIU outtakes, I'm sure you'll get them--in 2027/28. But if SOS has been overpriced to the point where sales are appreciably lower than FF, one can legitmately worry about what type of effort/budget will be put into future grand projects. If that's so, then a really well-done compilation from the SS/WH/Friends/2020 period could at least ensure that the 1967-73 period received a truly uniform level of exposure for die-hard fans and for that sought-after younger audience.

Yes, I was very much speaking to post-1973 rather than specifically 73-75.

Given that the team working on archival stuff are actively working stuff up and pitching stuff, I haven’t just assumed there’s going to be zero movement on all future archival releases until each year or era hits the 50 year mark. In other words, I think they should probably look at addressing like “LA (Light Album)” material sooner than 2028/2029, at which point Mike will be nearing 90 years old and even second generation fans will be hitting Social Security age. There’s no mandate or rule that they can’t put the stuff out *prior* to the precise 50-year mark to protect it.

You have to remember that selling *the band members* on the post-60s stuff is always going to be more challenging, and I feel like putting that stuff on hold for like 3 or 4 years and going back to 67-69 stuff will kind of stunt the progress that has been made.

But yes, I think we’re all kind of wanting the same things, it’s just a question of what order we get it in, and how much Release A tends to delay Release B. So yes, if I knew they had like a 10-year plan mapped out and nothing planned for 2023-2025 as far as more 70s outtakes, then sure, why not give the great work they did on the 67-69 archival releases a nice, lavish package. But I think other things are planned (and sure, a larger live set certainly make sense), and I think a Caribou-to-MIU sort of set coming out in the next year or two would be much, much more desirable than a reissue of the late 60s stuff. A sort of “Bedroom Tapes” themed type of set, not so much having to use that title, but to play off of the legend of that era as described in a few articles in the past.

I realize the realities of the industry and the band politics (though, with Iconic now owning a majority stake in all of it, one would hope the politics are less of an issue as time goes by), and I’ve been the first to point out for many years how delicate it is to pitch post-60s archival material, and how many markets/demographics have to be looked at.

But I also think, with the momentum of DOZENS of discs worth of 1967-1973 unreleased material having seen release in the last five years, there is also an opportunity to finally push a little harder for archival releases for the hardcore fans. I think all that are in the loop working on this stuff know that “MIU” outtakes aren’t going to sell as well as even “Sunflower/Surf’s Up” era material. But, as part of a multi-prong approach to continuing to market and sell this band, I think continuing going through the 70s and 80s a little sooner rather than later, before fans that were introduced to the band in the NINETIES starting hitting 50-60 years old, might be a good idea.

I have a lot of thoughts about this, but they're kind of disjointed.

On one hand, yes the Smiley Smile through 20/20 period features consistently great material, released and not. On the other hand, because that material is consistently great we've seen it parceled out as bonus tracks and in special releases for the last 30 years. The Brother material is so much fresher, at least to my ears.

Are physical releases even that big of a deal anymore? Do they earn new fans? Or do they simply resell largely familiar material to the same audience that has bought BB/BW product for ages?

My local record retailer sounded a little burned by the last couple of big boxes. He couldn't move Feel Flows sets and ended up not ordering as many of the Sail on Sailor. I had to special order the vinyl box from him (this is a college town with an active music shop).

At a certain point, the train does run out. There's a Brian's Back set out there for sure, and something mopping up the odds and ends from the late 70s through the soundtrack work of the 80s. Obviously live sets, including the '93 unplugged shows, could follow. But that's not a lot of material, and it appeals to a narrower and narrower slice of the fanbase.

Perhaps at some point the archivists will double back and start doing ultra-deluxe reissues of the '60s albums with session material and stack of vocal mixes and 78s tossed in.

While boxed sets have been around forever, the newer trend of large releases (often of old albums or eras) with multiple SKUS, culminating in the “Super Deluxe Edition” (a term which even Beatles-related releases have taken on), is very much a thing. I think it’s partly a prestige thing, to have that big, super deluxe set in physical form to represent the release, even if plenty of folks are streaming the stuff. Certainly, 60s/70s artists putting these sets out will see a larger proportion of their fanbase still seeking out physical releases. And, while I find it largely a big circle jerk at this point, vinyl is very, very trendy and lucrative. So that’s another “prestige” item to get out there.

I do think digital-only releases probably make very, very little money, so more expensive physical sets probably do bring in more money if they’re willing to lay out the money on the front end to do it.

But yes, I do think this stuff is fine to just put out digitally, at least in some cases. If digital-only is what it takes to get late 70s and 80s outtakes, I’m okay with that. That’s why, while I wouldn’t oppose a physical releases of the 67-69 material that has been digital-only, I don’t view it as a big priority. Then it becomes a question of, are we just trying to get this literally on a physical disc, or are we talking about a whole other ball of  wax that is essentially *re-launching* the material in totally repackaged/reconfigured form in a “Feel Flows/Sail on Sailor” sort of deluxe package?

I do think we’re at a bit of an inflection point when it comes to hardcore Beach Boys fans. I’d never deny that like “Keepin’ the Summer Alive” outtakes or a thorough audio document of the ’82 Rumbo sessions are going to be pretty niche/hardcore territory. But in an era where a lot of movie fans seem more fixated on being junior box office prognosticators rather than just talking about and watching what they want and like, I don’t want this to happen with this BB music. I think we need to push HARD to get the archival releases to continue. I think there are MANY discs left of 1974-80s/90s material worth releasing. Studio material. I think there’s stuff in the archives we don’t even know about. Yes, I know, some self-described “hardcore” fans already drop off when it gets to even the “So Tough” era, let alone the later stuff. But when I envisioned the ideal archival program for the Beach Boys, I never pictured stopping at “Holland”, giving up and throwing our hands in the air, and retreating to 60s material AGAIN.

Now, again, ideally *all* of the eras will be addressed by the archive team and Iconic. Just like this year, where we got a “Sounds of Summer” expansion, and then also the SOS set.

Hopefully with the release of the Sail On Sailor set we have bid farewell to the last of Susie Cincinnati but, perhaps, we should be bracing ourselves for several years of Shortnin' Bread ..... followed by Proud Mary .....

Interesting that the "spark in the dark" phrase came to be used in 'Funky Pretty' but I don't hear any connection musically. Maybe someone else would? But yes, it seems to me that the rhythm of the notes in 'Spark In the Dark' strongly suggest the same rhythm that could be used for the words "spark in the dark". I hear the words softly sung at about 1:29 as "Used to be the flame in your heart, now I'm just a flash in the dark". The 'Spark In The Dark' track sounds like it could have been the basis for a cool song in 1972. I saw it being suggested that at least some the of this track  later inspired the Brian Wilson/ Andy Paley song 'Chain Reaction of Love'.

Why would you think that? Don't forget that a different mix of "Susie Cincinnati" appeared on 15 Big Ones! So I assume there'd probably be yet another remix for a Brian's Back type set in the future.

By the way, does anybody know what releases contain the 1970 single mix of "Susie"? I feel like it's probably not many.

A number of tracks have been remixed and remixed again in various permutations, so I don't mind "Susie Cincinnati" being all over the "Feel Flows" set.

I saw some people complaining about the song being on the "Sail on Sailor" set over on the Hoffman board, and I had to conclude they probably hadn't actually listened to the set and were just looking at the tracklisting (and seemingly one with no track descriptors), as the "version" of the song on the SOS set is such a different scenario/context, I can't imagine why anybody would complain. It's not another remix of the same studio version, it's part of a super random but tantalizing home recording of Brian from the "Holland" era. It's clearly there because there aren't exactly hours and hours of random audio of Brian noodling while in Holland.

So yeah, if there's also tape of Brian and Dennis riffing on "Susie Cincinnati" on part of the "Cocaine Tape" that we haven't heard, I'd be fine with that being released too.

I believe the original single mix of Susie is on the Very Best..., Vol. 3 that came out around 2000!

The most insane missed opportunity for 1973-4 would be if they don’t release ENDLESS SUMMER LIVE- something like a live LP of 1973-5 recordings with a similar sequence to the original LP, with cover art showing the actual BBs as they appeared in the era with a cover design that looks like the Endless Summer LP.

Interesting concept, I like it. What would you suggest they do for the songs from that era and release that were never perfrmed live then...i.e. Let Him Run Wild, Girl on the Beach, and a couple others I think. Like the idea though.

D'OH!

Actually 74-75, but that's a nitpick...it is a great idea. I'd love to see the "scholar base" step up into this thread and flesh out that idea with what they know about the available live performances in the time frame.

Since the followup compilation SPIRIT OF AMERICA also came out in 1975, they should also cherry-pick tracks from there as well, since there are going to be track where they have no coverage.

Here's a list of the tracks in the order they appeared on those two sets...if someone with the requisite knowledge wants to start filling in, that would be cool!

ENDLESS SUMMER
Surfin Safari
Surfer Girl
Catch A Wave
The Warmth of the Sun
Surfin' USA
Be True to Your School
Little Deuce Coupe
In My Room
Shut Down
Fun, Fun, Fun
I Get Around
The Girls on the Beach
Wendy
Let Him Run Wild
Don't Worry Baby
California Girls
Girl Don't Tell Me
Help Me Rhonda
You're So Good to Me
All Summer Long

SPIRIT OF AMERICA
Dance, Dance, Dance
Break Away
A Young Man Is Gone
409
The Little Girl I Once Knew
Spirit of America
Little Honda
Hushabye
Hawaii
Drive-In
Good to My Baby
Tell Me Why
Do You Remember
This Car of Mine
Please Let Me Wonder
Why Do Fools Fall in Love
Custom Machine
Barbara Ann
Salt Lake City
Don't Back Down
When I Grow Up to Be A Man
Do You Wanna Dance?
Graduation Day

Maybe they can license some live tracks from later time frames for some tracks--Brian's band used to open with "Little Girl I Once Knew," for example.  And there must be a couple of versions of these that could be represented by some incarnation of the Mike & Bruce band.

For a two-CD set, you'd need, what, 35-40 songs? A portion of the second CD could toss in some other live highlights, so long as they weren't too repetitive with other live releases. It all  likely comes down to dollars-and-sense: will they want to do the work required to make a solid product if it's only a single CD? How much can they charge for it, and how many are they likely to sell? Or do you package it as a "special concept" within a larger live set that also contains tracks from the 66-73 time frame?

No need for ‘Liitle Girl…’ from either Brian or M&B. It was a regular during the C50 in 2012.

https://youtu.be/olL00y1RN_g

I'm definitely in favor of this particular proposal!

I wouldn’t be opposed to a potential project that used some “Endless Summer” imagery/theming (in one of the podcasts Howie did on the “Sounds of Summer” reissue, he talked about an early idea to expand “Endless Summer” instead, but I think the label understandably saw that for the purposes of RIAA certifications, it was better to do “Sounds of Summer”).

But it would be tricky to try to line it up that much with the original album tracklisting if they wanted to stick to 74-75 live stuff. By my rough count, around half of the 20 “Endless Summer” tracks were rarely or never performed in the early-mid 70s. I don’t think they ever did stuff like “Girl Don’t Tel Me” or “Girls on the Beach”, and in the 74-75 time frame they were not regularly if ever doing stuff like “Surfin’ Safari”, “Shut Down”, “Be True to Your School”, “Wendy”, “All Summer Long”, etc. And if they did occasionally do some of these, they may well have not been captured on a usable recording. If they expanded it through the end of the 70s and into the early 80s, they could find recordings of more of these. But I don’t think they added something like “Surfin’ Safari” back into the setlist until around 1981, and “Wendy” only sporadically showed up in 1984 and then later into the 80s and 90s. They weirdly never regularly did “All Summer Long”, though it came and went a few times.

Same deal with “Spirit of America.” A number of that album’s songs were never performed live. Again, by my count roughly half of the album. And very little of it was done in the 74-75 time frame.

And really, I see issuing live archival material as having two main purposes: Full length recordings of individual shows which showcase the whole show from a given time frame, and then compilations that look for interesting and noteworthy performances. What I don’t necessarily need is a “Greatest Hits Live” sort of formulation (though any multi-disc compilation of live stuff would by default feature a ton of hits as well anyway).

So I think such a live set would really kind of just have to use the titles and/or covers/imagery as the basis, and then the tracklisting would have to just be a fresh look at some sort of theme/prompt for how to pick tracks. And again, I’d say either a larger (maybe digital only?) set with multiple complete shows from 1973 to 1975, and/or a compilation that focuses on the best performances and most interesting/unique/rare song selections.

A career-spanning selection to cover more tracks would of course be cool, although I don't think (nor would I want) there to be any solo stuff or post-1997 Mike stuff. I don't think we're ever going to see a post-1997 live recording (barring 2012 of course) of Mike's band released under the "Beach Boys" name.

I suspect, though, that if they can finagle all of the Beach Boys sets from the “Beachago” ’75 recordings (I believe they have some but not all currently), then that might end up (deservedly) getting its own release as a “1975 Tour” sort of deal.

Nice Ken Sharp interview with Howie about the SOS set and era:

https://rockcellarmagazine.com/howie-edelson-interview-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-mike-love/#main

This is great. Thanks!

Very nice, thank you!
Maybe Howie could elaborate a little on the sessions for "He come down" and Brian's contributions. It certainly sounds like something I would like to hear.

Here's the video of the November Grammy Museum Sail on Sailor event with Howie and Mike:

https://watch.grammymuseum.org/spotlight/videos/celebrating-the-beach-boys-sail-on-sailor-1972

Beach Boys' creative consultant Howie Edelson reveals back story of 'Sail On Sailor'
Lovingly assembled and filled with aural delights alongside informative liner notes penned by Howie Edelson, the new 'Sail On Sailor-1972' box set is a knockout. Edelson describes the evolution of this huge undertaking.


https://www.goldminemag.com/interviews/beach-boys-creative-consultant-howie-edelson-reveals-back-story-of-sail-on-sailor?


EDIT:

After reading this, I believe it is the same interview that was posted above. Sorry for the double post.

Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin explain The Beach Boys' unique creative success in the early 1970s
With the release of The Beach Boys box set 'Sail on Sailor — 1972,' creative brilliance reveals itself through a variety of songs from the albums 'Carl and The Passions — “So Tough”' in 1972, 'Holland' in 1973, and more. Jardine and Chaplin detail it all in exclusive interviews.


https://www.goldminemag.com/interviews/al-jardine-and-blondie-chaplin-explain-the-beach-boys-unique-creative-success-in-the-early-1970s?

Just heard this great upload on Youtube of Carl demoing City Jim (The Trader)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkQALrwURyA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkQALrwURyA)

Crazy how stuff like this wasn't included on the set

Great piano work! Who is that playing?

Carl Wilson

Finally a BIG PRICE DROP on this for UK/Europe for the 5 LP + 7" Set

£84.10 on Amazon UK https://amzn.to/3UWUvmY (https://amzn.to/3UWUvmY)
€89.03 on Amazon DE https://amzn.to/41JljJh (https://amzn.to/41JljJh)

Probably be back to normal price again by the time anyone sees this  :lol

A complete concert from Hollywood 1973 appeared on Spotify, but the tracks are not clickable. What is this?

Maybe a soon-to-be-released-release?


https://open.spotify.com/album/6K46WU2gnxbwc9tqOwCpBh


BTW, I may be misremembering but wasn't Brian at this show and came on stage for a song or two?

It was working yesterday but sadly not today. I listened to half of it and it sounded great. Probably another copyright protection move.

Did anyone grab this?  Mind PMing me if you did?

Same here! 

Opened my 5LP + 7" set about an hour ago. Listened to CATP and about half way through Holland. Really impressed with the pressing quality so far. Proper anti static sleeves too not paper as I've seen mentioned on discogs.