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Author Topic: Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys'  (Read 27933 times)
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #150 on: October 21, 2020, 02:15:39 PM »

Century, because too many people only care about themselves.

Yep, and that toxic-as-F*CK mindset is fully being embraced, coddled, and humped like a dog in heat humping a leg by the current administration.

The amount of kids who are being raised to "look up to" Trump as anyone remotely worthy of admiration is sickening. The US is gonna raise a generation of gaslighting bullies and narcissists who have been told this behavior is not only acceptable, it's to be PRAISED.

The fact that Trump and Pence can't even muster a tiny "I can sort of see where folks of color are coming from about certain elements of systemic racism, but here's where I differ with them..." - the fact that they can't even remotely acknowledge a SMIDGEN of empathy to show that they are at least TRYING to care one iota about ANYBODY but themselves is so sick and depraved, I cannot even fathom it, nor can I fathom the people who think that's just dandy. You know, like Mike.

And Mike plays big time into this "only care about themselves" behavior this too. He ALWAYS has. The sad sack that he is doesn't bother to talk to Brian or Al about playing such a polarizing show... then the same day it hits the news that Mike is playing, Brian and Al PUBLICLY state they very much oppose the show.... so Mike is on RECORD in 2020 doing stuff behind the backs of other members - just because he can - and not having the decency to even have them be part of the conversation about how the band name is being abused/whored out - this cannot be argued - so there's no question that he's doing stuff on a huge level just caring about himself and nobody else...

But the mindblowing thing is what happens next... THEN, in the immediate aftermath (granted from an interview apparently conducted just before the Trump news broke) that f*ckstick Mike has the unmitigated chutzpah in the interview yesterday to claim that Brian won't be "let out to play", with no understanding about how their worldviews could differ in such a massive way (not just about politics) that Brian is avoiding Mike out of Brian's own wishes. I guess Melinda is speaking for both Brian AND Al about Trump. She's pulling all those strings too in Mike's eyes, even Al's strings.

I mean, Mike is so very sick. Mike is such an emotionally abusive, thoughtless individual, a true sick f*ck. Just like Trump.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:27:34 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #151 on: October 21, 2020, 02:22:07 PM »

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.



Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Billy, I'm very sorry to hear this Undecided

And CenturyDeprived, I think it's a matter of there being conflicting reports from the very beginning of the pandemic that led many people to distrust the news and their political leaders. When Trump was shutting down air travel to China many politicians here were here in America telling people to get out in the streets en mass and ignore the virus. We were told by Fauci that masks were useless then he changed his tune about that. There is an ocean of misinformation/disinformation and conflicting reports that have only served to hurt public trust in media and leadership (on both sides of the aisle) in this country.

I have friends who have lost loved ones due to COVID, my good friend still hasn't recovered his sense of smell or taste and he got the virus months ago, I can't see a dying family member right now because of this virus. So I for one do not see this thing as a hoax, it's a serious disease. I hope those of us who see things from this perspective can have sympathy/empathy on those who are so far led astray to think that this virus doesn't even exist...as in, while I vehemently oppose their viewpoint, I also realize there is so much bullshit information out there (and has been from the beginning) that many people just don't know any better. Which is why, you're absolutely right, it takes a personal experience for many of these people to realize that this virus absolutely exists and absolutely is deadly. It's a sad reality. But this is why fighting falsehoods with facts is extremely important right now. It can save lives.

There unfortunately seems to be virtually no way (other than them getting Covid and getting very sick themselves, or having that happen - or worse - to close people they know) for these brainwashed Trumpers to get the point about Covid. Or for Mike to get the point about the dangers of playing a big show in the middle of a pandemic, for that matter, or supporting such a sick f*ck candidate who downplays Covid.

For people like Mike, and for Covid downplayers/deniers, always just has to be a bad thing that directly happens to them, where their entire little universe is shattered, before they'll grasp it.

It's literally a brainwashed cult that cannot be reasoned with. I very much appreciate that you (and others) are trying to go about in a more understanding manner than I am capable of at this point. You're a saint for doing that. My patience on the matter has expired because people, including people I personally know, have expired due to this awful disease, and the Narcissist in Chief just keeps making it worse, and so does Mike.

History will judge Mike VERY VERY harshly.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:29:15 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #152 on: October 21, 2020, 02:26:03 PM »

Great rhetoric. Is it because he put kids in cages...oh wait that was Obama, was it not? Is it because he donates his salary? Please explain the evidence of being a monster. Still waiting for the answers on why you seem to be against the good things The President has accomplished.

It could very well be the fact that our president attended The Howard Stern Show in 2005 to boast about times he's barged into underaged dressing rooms at his own pageants. A claim further corroborated by multiple women who were not only there but minors at the time. It may also be that he considered child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein a buddy of his, going so far as to describe him as a terrific guy who enjoys the company of women on the younger side. It could be that he adamantly defended Roy Moore, an Alabama politician who ran for senator in 2018, despite the very credible sexual abuse allegations leveled against him by multiple women - one having been a minor at the time. You know, it could possibly be that he's admitted to playing down the current pandemic in its early days which has now resulted in the loss of over 220,000 American lives; after his administration explicitly dismantled the office in the White House that was tasked with preparing for exactly this kind of tragedy. But hey, it may just be that he refused to disavow QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory that infamously originated on a white supremacist message board. Maybe the way he refused to apologize for advocating for the death of young children during the Central Park Five incident, despite them having been fully exonerated in every capacity over a decade ago was a tad bit odd. There's also the somewhat concerning matter of Don boy himself having over 26 sexual abuse allegations thrown at him, including one from his ex-wife and another from a minor. I mean the whole "I'd date my daughter if she wasn't my daughter" thing was sorta kinda ever so slightly strange my dude, wouldn't you agree?

I think from a completely objective, non-partisan standpoint even an individual with a fairly modest single digit IQ could perhaps piece together a pattern of unethical behavior. And perhaps it wouldn't be too unreasonable for said individual to find the term monster applicable in this instance. I feel I'm straying a bit off topic here however, so I'll add that Mike doing this against the wishes of Brian and Al, while simultaneously holding back the release of the Feel Flows box set has absolutely tarnished whatever faint legacy he had left. Truly, the only modicum of gratitude I can muster for his existence is the magnificent work he did on Wrinkles; as the existential dread that consumed me upon listening to it has coincidentally numbed me to the emotional devastation I'd otherwise feel in this hellworld we currently live in.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #153 on: October 21, 2020, 02:31:34 PM »

Great rhetoric. Is it because he put kids in cages...oh wait that was Obama, was it not? Is it because he donates his salary? Please explain the evidence of being a monster. Still waiting for the answers on why you seem to be against the good things The President has accomplished.

It could very well be the fact that our president attended The Howard Stern Show in 2005 to boast about times he's barged into underaged dressing rooms at his own pageants. A claim further corroborated by multiple women who were not only there but minors at the time. It may also be that he considered child sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein a buddy of his, going so far as to describe him as a terrific guy who enjoys the company of women on the younger side. It could be that he adamantly defended Roy Moore, an Alabama politician who ran for senator in 2018, despite the very credible sexual abuse allegations leveled against him by multiple women - one having been a minor at the time. You know, it could possibly be that he's admitted to playing down the current pandemic in its early days which has now resulted in the loss of over 220,000 American lives; after his administration explicitly dismantled the office in the White House that was tasked with preparing for exactly this kind of tragedy. But hey, it may just be that he refused to disavow QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory that infamously originated on a white supremacist message board. Maybe the way he refused to apologize for advocating for the death of young children during the Central Park Five incident, despite them having been fully exonerated in every capacity over a decade ago was a tad bit odd. There's also the somewhat concerning matter of Don boy himself having over 26 sexual abuse allegations thrown at him, including one from his ex-wife and another from a minor. I mean the whole "I'd date my daughter if she wasn't my daughter" thing was sorta kinda ever so slightly strange my dude, wouldn't you agree?

I think from a completely objective, non-partisan standpoint even an individual with a fairly modest single digit IQ could perhaps piece together a pattern of unethical behavior. And perhaps it wouldn't be too unreasonable for said individual to find the term monster applicable in this instance. I feel I'm straying a bit off topic here however, so I'll add that Mike doing this against the wishes of Brian and Al, while simultaneously holding back the release of the Feel Flows box set has absolutely tarnished whatever faint legacy he had left. Truly, the only modicum of gratitude I can muster for his existence is the magnificent work he did on Wrinkles; as the existential dread that consumed me upon listening to it has coincidentally numbed me to the emotional devastation I'd otherwise feel in this hellworld we currently live in.

I'm waiting for joe_blow to jump in with some whataboutism in 3-2-1...

Even if one can find some bad stuff to say (as there surely is) about Democratic candidates, Trump is an UNMITIGATED SLEAZE and a GIANT PIECE OF DOG CRAP as a human being. Get off the whataboutism train and just friggin ADMIT that's a fact.

Trump defenders cannot resist whataboutism, it's a Pavlovian response, any more than Mike can resist saying WILSONS DID DRUGS. It's almost funny if it weren't so unbelievably pathetic and predictable.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:34:16 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #154 on: October 21, 2020, 02:33:58 PM »

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.



Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Just look at Chris Christie as a recent example.

Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to proactively empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Assuming some of the 'Trumpy people' is referring to some of my earlier comments which attempted to illustrate my thoughts on the politicalized nature of COVID and the exaggeration of implemented precautions.  Can I not have true, honest empathy and sympathy for those that either contracted COVID-19 and fought to overcome the disease or those families which saw their loved ones struggle and ultimately die from the virus?   Just because I have opposing views on the subject doesn't mean I don't have sadness for all the loss and struggles.   The problem is you don't believe that I do.   I said I think concerts are fine and mask wearing is pointless but I also tried to express personal experiences.   I feel that the actions taken to combat COVID-19 are having a larger and possibly more long term detrimental affect.   Its been expressed that I contract COVID, f-off and get banned.   Someone mentioned that people like me think they're above the law.   I actually feel the exact opposite.  I thought I'd be known as the biggest rule follower ever.  If I see signs on private businesses, public areas, etc. requiring the use of a mask, of course I wear one.  I always wear a mask because its expected of me right now.  I don't agree with it and may take political action to see a change, but I follow the rules.   My feelings on masks were from what I learned from published studies.  From what we see, this virus spreads sooo freaking easily.  The droplets expelled can be so minuscule that prior studies on larger molecule viruses had nearly no positive affect of wearing a mask.  Mainstream media even reported that most hospital admissions from COVID were from people already quarantining at home.   I've personally seen no widespread research conducted that the spread of COVID-19 would be greatly different by mask wearing.   I have seen first hand accounts, however, of the detriments including gum disease, increased tooth decal and overall sluggish feeling and hyperventilation from breathing through a mask.   Luckily, the survival rate to COVID-19 appears to be well above 99% using the CDC numbers including all those truly dying from pre-existing or unrelated causes.    When political leaders, like Trump, need to make decisions for the country, both sides need to be considered.   Seems like some people on this board feel the USA is infallible to financial distress and widespread pain/suffering from recessions/depressions.   I know that small business, many industries (including travel) and middle and low wage families were hurt badly during the lockdowns.   Both physically by way of depression, suicide, fear, drug use, alcoholism...social separation...not seeing the doctor when they should have...skipping medical appointments and then...the financial impacts.  Not that financial impacts will lead to widespread hunger initially, but in the long run, harm is realized quickly when business collapse and financial struggles appear.   Its just a lot to consider when your weighing important decisions.    This coupled with the sensitivity to losing freedoms gained only by the millions of lives lost on the battlefield through hard fought wars.   Americans are sacrificing individuals, but both sides need considered.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #155 on: October 21, 2020, 02:36:52 PM »

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.



Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Just look at Chris Christie as a recent example.

Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to proactively empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Assuming some of the 'Trumpy people' is referring to some of my earlier comments which attempted to illustrate my thoughts on the politicalized nature of COVID and the exaggeration of implemented precautions.  Can I not have true, honest empathy and sympathy for those that either contracted COVID-19 and fought to overcome the disease or those families which saw their loved ones struggle and ultimately die from the virus?   Just because I have opposing views on the subject doesn't mean I don't have sadness for all the loss and struggles.   The problem is you don't believe that I do.   I said I think concerts are fine and mask wearing is pointless but I also tried to express personal experiences.   I feel that the actions taken to combat COVID-19 are having a larger and possibly more long term detrimental affect.   Its been expressed that I contract COVID, f-off and get banned.   Someone mentioned that people like me think they're above the law.   I actually feel the exact opposite.  I thought I'd be known as the biggest rule follower ever.  If I see signs on private businesses, public areas, etc. requiring the use of a mask, of course I wear one.  I always wear a mask because its expected of me right now.  I don't agree with it and may take political action to see a change, but I follow the rules.   My feelings on masks were from what I learned from published studies.  From what we see, this virus spreads sooo freaking easily.  The droplets expelled can be so minuscule that prior studies on larger molecule viruses had nearly no positive affect of wearing a mask.  Mainstream media even reported that most hospital admissions from COVID were from people already quarantining at home.   I've personally seen no widespread research conducted that the spread of COVID-19 would be greatly different by mask wearing.   I have seen first hand accounts, however, of the detriments including gum disease, increased tooth decal and overall sluggish feeling and hyperventilation from breathing through a mask.   Luckily, the survival rate to COVID-19 appears to be well above 99% using the CDC numbers including all those truly dying from pre-existing or unrelated causes.    When political leaders, like Trump, need to make decisions for the country, both sides need to be considered.   Seems like some people on this board feel the USA is infallible to financial distress and widespread pain/suffering from recessions/depressions.   I know that small business, many industries (including travel) and middle and low wage families were hurt badly during the lockdowns.   Both physically by way of depression, suicide, fear, drug use, alcoholism...social separation...not seeing the doctor when they should have...skipping medical appointments and then...the financial impacts.  Not that financial impacts will lead to widespread hunger initially, but in the long run, harm is realized quickly when business collapse and financial struggles appear.   Its just a lot to consider when your weighing important decisions.    This coupled with the sensitivity to losing freedoms gained only by the millions of lives lost on the battlefield through hard fought wars.   Americans are sacrificing individuals, but both sides need considered.

Pressing the RETURN key on the keyboard every now and then also needs to be considered, Einstein.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 02:38:58 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
HeyJude
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« Reply #156 on: October 21, 2020, 02:57:58 PM »

I've personally seen no widespread research conducted that the spread of COVID-19 would be greatly different by mask wearing.  

Just the one sentence above alone, this would be flagged on Twitter as spreading misleading and potentially harmful information.

Bringing this back to the Beach Boys, anybody who cares to look into such things in the future will indeed judge many decisions of Mike to be unfortunate (to put it politely).

But evidence indicates Mike doesn't care. Go look at his comments about playing Sun City in 1981. Much like the people he supports (and the people who support him), Mike rarely if ever admits he's wrong about anything of consequence. Remember those interviews where he's asked about HIS regrets about himself, and he says his regret is the Wilsons' drug abuse?
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THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
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« Reply #157 on: October 21, 2020, 04:18:58 PM »

I've personally seen no widespread research conducted that the spread of COVID-19 would be greatly different by mask wearing.  

Just the one sentence above alone, this would be flagged on Twitter as spreading misleading and potentially harmful information.

Not that you're wrong, but given Twitter's recent censorship incident, they're about last on my list for trustworthy fact-checking. That being said, there are plenty of easily found studies that prove that mask wearing does in fact help reduce the amount of COVID-19 transmission (and here is another study). Nathan, if you have evidence that refutes these studies, I do implore you to cite it (much like SHS-10 cited above - it really helps prove your point when you post actual evidence to back your claims).

Bringing this back to the Beach Boys, anybody who cares to look into such things in the future will indeed judge many decisions of Mike to be unfortunate (to put it politely).

But evidence indicates Mike doesn't care. Go look at his comments about playing Sun City in 1981. Much like the people he supports (and the people who support him), Mike rarely if ever admits he's wrong about anything of consequence. Remember those interviews where he's asked about HIS regrets about himself, and he says his regret is the Wilsons' drug abuse?

It's utterly ridiculous that he is constantly going on about "harmony" and his solo album from a couple years back is titled "Unleash the Love" - a bad pun that is laughable when you take a glance at his actions and statements over the past couple decades. Between his Trump related concerts, his continued harping on about Brian being controlled, and the continued in-limbo status of Feel Flows, I am very disheartened by this whole year.
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« Reply #158 on: October 21, 2020, 04:24:20 PM »

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

Quote
no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.

Oh?  You can't reason, appeal or bargain with animals.  What do you do if you have a cat that enjoys periodically crapping in the corner of your bedroom?  Let it happen?  What do you do if your dog periodically has a bad habit of attacking smaller dogs when you take it to the park?  You shout at it as aggressively as you can, because that is the COOL way to handle it.  NOT COOL would be to physically harm it with force or psychologically harm it with shock collars or invisible fences.  

Likewise, people like this poster in question who hold dangerous viewpoints and clearly can not be bargained with about a topic anymore, will not consider reasonable arguments to the contrary anymore, and have never been open to appeals must be shouted down, over and over again, by as many members of society as possible.  To do anything further would be NOT COOL.
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« Reply #159 on: October 21, 2020, 04:27:20 PM »

 Again IMO it’s totally appropriate to tell someone to F OFF when they are out of line and personally offensive. I’m all for Discussing differing points of view in a calm and civilized manner, yet I’m sure we can all think of things that cross that line and are not worthy of discussion. If someone comes up to you on the street and grabs your A$$, are you gonna have a calm convo w/ them about how sexual assault is inappropriate, and you disagree with their position that it’s okay to grab a stranger? Or are you gonna say F OFF?!?

Cases in point - in my opinion- one poster says that the “protests” are “racist”, which is a familiar right wing talking point for those who are opposed to equality because they think white supremacy doesn’t exist. Which is personally offensive to me in a way that I’m over arguing with anyone about. Another poster and the F-ing President refers to cities such as where I live and love, as “decrepit”, etc.

People don’t like Trump because he is failed and dangerous, as a leader. Regardless of politics. His politics are certainly not conservative anyway IMO.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 04:29:51 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #160 on: October 21, 2020, 04:39:08 PM »

This is extremely unfortunate what is aloud to go on here. So disheartening
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« Reply #161 on: October 21, 2020, 04:39:57 PM »

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.



Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Just look at Chris Christie as a recent example.

Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to proactively empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Assuming some of the 'Trumpy people' is referring to some of my earlier comments which attempted to illustrate my thoughts on the politicalized nature of COVID and the exaggeration of implemented precautions.  Can I not have true, honest empathy and sympathy for those that either contracted COVID-19 and fought to overcome the disease or those families which saw their loved ones struggle and ultimately die from the virus?   Just because I have opposing views on the subject doesn't mean I don't have sadness for all the loss and struggles.   The problem is you don't believe that I do.   I said I think concerts are fine and mask wearing is pointless but I also tried to express personal experiences.   I feel that the actions taken to combat COVID-19 are having a larger and possibly more long term detrimental affect.   Its been expressed that I contract COVID, f-off and get banned.   Someone mentioned that people like me think they're above the law.   I actually feel the exact opposite.  I thought I'd be known as the biggest rule follower ever.  If I see signs on private businesses, public areas, etc. requiring the use of a mask, of course I wear one.  I always wear a mask because its expected of me right now.  I don't agree with it and may take political action to see a change, but I follow the rules.   My feelings on masks were from what I learned from published studies.  From what we see, this virus spreads sooo freaking easily.  The droplets expelled can be so minuscule that prior studies on larger molecule viruses had nearly no positive affect of wearing a mask.  Mainstream media even reported that most hospital admissions from COVID were from people already quarantining at home.   I've personally seen no widespread research conducted that the spread of COVID-19 would be greatly different by mask wearing.   I have seen first hand accounts, however, of the detriments including gum disease, increased tooth decal and overall sluggish feeling and hyperventilation from breathing through a mask.   Luckily, the survival rate to COVID-19 appears to be well above 99% using the CDC numbers including all those truly dying from pre-existing or unrelated causes.    When political leaders, like Trump, need to make decisions for the country, both sides need to be considered.   Seems like some people on this board feel the USA is infallible to financial distress and widespread pain/suffering from recessions/depressions.   I know that small business, many industries (including travel) and middle and low wage families were hurt badly during the lockdowns.   Both physically by way of depression, suicide, fear, drug use, alcoholism...social separation...not seeing the doctor when they should have...skipping medical appointments and then...the financial impacts.  Not that financial impacts will lead to widespread hunger initially, but in the long run, harm is realized quickly when business collapse and financial struggles appear.   Its just a lot to consider when your weighing important decisions.    This coupled with the sensitivity to losing freedoms gained only by the millions of lives lost on the battlefield through hard fought wars.   Americans are sacrificing individuals, but both sides need considered.

You are backpedaling from your second post in this thread, where you say, and I quote, "I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'."  

See, shouting down unreasonable statements actually works.
It's the same mentality as Nathan shows above when he discusses wearing masks in public because of established societal ground rules, even though he has already ARGUED that mask wearing is HARMFUL TO YOUR OWN HEALTH.  He is doing so because he knows that if he were to completely avoid these sooooo harmful to your health masks, wide swaths of society would avoid him or verbally check him for his chosen behavior.
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« Reply #162 on: October 21, 2020, 05:03:36 PM »

Again, I will go back to the Daryl Davis example. The man didn't believe that every person with a white-nationalist viewpoint was beyond the point of redemption. And he proved with love and civility that people can be swayed to see the error in their ways. There is this cancerous idea in this day-and-age that no one can be swayed by rational discourse. We have been trained to automatically resort to name-calling, or ill-will wished upon someone. If we really think that shouting at someone like they're an animal pissing on a carpet is going to help move our society to a better place, we have completely lost touch with any sort of civility - civility that is needed for the good of society. Again I say, be the light in the darkness you see.

There is so much instant vitriol in society these days that it's no wonder people are so staunchly firm in their beliefs. Divisiveness feeds off this false idea that people with different viewpoints can't talk to one another in a civil manner.

Imagine if Snopes/CDC/etc, instead of citing and fact-checking claims regarding COVID, just merely shouted "F**k you!" or "I hope you get COVID!" to those who shared their beliefs that COVID-19 is a hoax, how useful would that be to society? We have that same responsibility.

You are backpedaling from your second post in this thread, where you say, and I quote, "I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'." 

See, shouting down unreasonable statements actually works.

I guess I'm now confused by your definition of shouting at an animal. I was more under the impression that shouting at an animal is actually just that: shouting (which in internet/forum terms could possibly likened to having an exclamation mark or all caps with the words "What the hell are you doing!?" written). Because when my cat pisses on the carpeting I don't calmly walk over and explain why what the animal is doing is wrong (which is basically how you just responded to Nathan - which you then cited as an example of shouting - unless I am missing something).
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« Reply #163 on: October 21, 2020, 05:13:54 PM »

I thought “politics” was a taboo subject. 
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« Reply #164 on: October 21, 2020, 05:15:45 PM »

This is extremely unfortunate what is aloud to go on here. So disheartening

Blame it on Mike. He's the one who roped the brand in with trying to elect the most polarizing candidate in the history of this country, and prostituting the brand name to do it against the wishes of multiple members.

It's impossible to discuss that event and simply put blinders on like a horse and not discuss the reasons why people are so upset about him playing that event. It may be a little bit off topic here and there but it definitely regularly comes back to Mike and the band and the tragedy of all this is that Mike, the band, and Trump are now all linked together in the eyes of many people, and nobody should want that, even Trump supporters if they can be objective should realize that's a very dumb thing to have happen.

So this is all unfortunately tangentially related to the band/brand and why so many fans are so disgusted right now, and why Mike's name trending on Twitter. Celebs who are 79 years old usually trend on Twitter for reasons involving caskets, so for Mike to trend at all he must've done something that caused huge shock waves - and not just on this board. If you want topic suppression, Mike's social media pages are perfect for that. Everything is happy and dandy and all dissenters have been taken to the alley and disposed of.
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« Reply #165 on: October 21, 2020, 06:50:20 PM »

Again, I will go back to the Daryl Davis example. The man didn't believe that every person with a white-nationalist viewpoint was beyond the point of redemption. And he proved with love and civility that people can be swayed to see the error in their ways. There is this cancerous idea in this day-and-age that no one can be swayed by rational discourse. We have been trained to automatically resort to name-calling, or ill-will wished upon someone. If we really think that shouting at someone like they're an animal pissing on a carpet is going to help move our society to a better place, we have completely lost touch with any sort of civility - civility that is needed for the good of society. Again I say, be the light in the darkness you see.

There is so much instant vitriol in society these days that it's no wonder people are so staunchly firm in their beliefs. Divisiveness feeds off this false idea that people with different viewpoints can't talk to one another in a civil manner.

Imagine if Snopes/CDC/etc, instead of citing and fact-checking claims regarding COVID, just merely shouted "F**k you!" or "I hope you get COVID!" to those who shared their beliefs that COVID-19 is a hoax, how useful would that be to society? We have that same responsibility.

You are backpedaling from your second post in this thread, where you say, and I quote, "I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'." 

See, shouting down unreasonable statements actually works.

I guess I'm now confused by your definition of shouting at an animal. I was more under the impression that shouting at an animal is actually just that: shouting (which in internet/forum terms could possibly likened to having an exclamation mark or all caps with the words "What the hell are you doing!?" written). Because when my cat pisses on the carpeting I don't calmly walk over and explain why what the animal is doing is wrong (which is basically how you just responded to Nathan - which you then cited as an example of shouting - unless I am missing something).

He got shouted at, internetically speaking.  Not reasoned with nor explained to.  He started out by saying "I think its perfectly okay to play a concert during a 'pandemic' because I don't believe its a 'pandemic'."  Among other stuff.  People here barked at him to eff off and other such things.  He complained about these responses and ended up reshuffling what he was saying - which is what he should have done. 
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« Reply #166 on: October 21, 2020, 07:02:52 PM »

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

Quote
no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.  

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.

Oh?  You can't reason, appeal or bargain with animals.  What do you do if you have a cat that enjoys periodically crapping in the corner of your bedroom?  Let it happen?  What do you do if your dog periodically has a bad habit of attacking smaller dogs when you take it to the park?  You shout at it as aggressively as you can, because that is the COOL way to handle it.  NOT COOL would be to physically harm it with force or psychologically harm it with shock collars or invisible fences.  

Likewise, people like this poster in question who hold dangerous viewpoints and clearly can not be bargained with about a topic anymore, will not consider reasonable arguments to the contrary anymore, and have never been open to appeals must be shouted down, over and over again, by as many members of society as possible.  To do anything further would be NOT COOL.

You can't reason with a baby either, but would you "shout as aggressively as you can" at one?  You can definitely bargain with animals (it's called positive reinforcement; you're getting them to behave how you want in exchange for food, praise and playing).  And while you can't reason with them, you have to use reason yourself to solve problem behaviors.  You asked what I would do if my cat crapped in my bedroom?  I would a) check it's litter box was clean 2) check that the cat wasn't sick 3) consider if the cat was in some other kind of distress.  If my dog kept attacking smaller dogs at the park?  While I would shout in order to stop an actual attack in the moment, just as important would be to figure out WHY the dog was doing that, so I would be working with a dog trainer (spoiler:  it's usually fear or illness).  

Shouting at a dog "as aggressively as you can" is extremely damaging to the dog and will not result in good behavior, unless you consider that being scared shitless qualifies as good behavior.  These are called aversive training methods and you will not find any reputable trainer who uses them.  Yelling and other aversive methods are documented to traumatize dogs:  https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/823427v1

I volunteer at a shelter that takes in a significant number of dogs that have been abused.  Some is physical but just as much is psychological.  Physical abuse is terrible but so is terrorizing your pet in other ways.  A previous dog of mine would go to the basement and hide if my husband and I raised our voices at each other.  I could go on but I won't.  Please, please, please don't scream at your pets.      

Edited to add that I completely agree with you about physical abuse and things like shock collars; my point is that yelling is another form of psychological harm. 

« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 07:15:13 PM by marcella27 » Logged
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« Reply #167 on: October 21, 2020, 07:31:35 PM »

marcella27: A baby?  Really?  Babies don't engage in behavior that attempts to harm others.  Of course not.
About the rest of your post- sure, you're right, when you tangentically take this into caring for animals over the course of their lives - of course you need to identify problem behaviors and solve them without aggression. 
Your dog thinks like it is in a pack that you lead.  In the moment, when it is harming another living being, you attempt to overrule it with your voice, it can be aggressive and intimidating, and it is not psychological terror. 
This is getting pretty far off topic. 
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« Reply #168 on: October 21, 2020, 07:43:18 PM »

There is this cancerous idea in this day-and-age that no one can be swayed by rational discourse. We have been trained to automatically resort to name-calling, or ill-will wished upon someone. If we really think that shouting at someone like they're an animal pissing on a carpet is going to help move our society to a better place, we have completely lost touch with any sort of civility - civility that is needed for the good of society. Again I say, be the light in the darkness you see.

There is so much instant vitriol in society these days that it's no wonder people are so staunchly firm in their beliefs. Divisiveness feeds off this false idea that people with different viewpoints can't talk to one another in a civil manner.


Rab is definitely on to something. Speaking generally for a moment, I think we all need to try to be more forgiving and charitable in our initial judgement of other people's intentions.

That doesn't mean that I didn't for example find the post about the protests being racist deeply troubling (that said, though this is probably not the place for it, there is a legitimate and nuanced discussion to be had about *some* people's genuine fears, justified or not, that grew out of those protests...such a discussion may or may not soften such reactionary points of view, but one thing for sure is that the approach of the last few years sure isn't working. This discussion is starting to remind me of one I had on another forum about sports players taking 'The Knee', if anyone wants to waste their time, it is an interesting presentation of different viewpoints, which remained largely civil considering this is the internet http://www.onlybarnet.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15256).
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« Reply #169 on: October 21, 2020, 07:44:02 PM »

marcella27: A baby?  Really?  Babies don't engage in behavior that attempts to harm others.  Of course not.
About the rest of your post- sure, you're right, when you tangentically take this into caring for animals over the course of their lives - of course you need to identify problem behaviors and solve them without aggression. 
Your dog thinks like it is in a pack that you lead.  In the moment, when it is harming another living being, you attempt to overrule it with your voice, it can be aggressive and intimidating, and it is not psychological terror. 
This is getting pretty far off topic. 

Like I said, if my dog was harming another living being, I would do what I needed to do in that moment to do to stop it, and that would most likely involve shouting.  But that's an extreme example.  My point was that shouting as a form of "training" is counterproductive and can be very damaging.  And yes we are wildly off-topic, but you'd be surprised at what some people think is acceptable treatment of pets, and I feel pretty strongly about it based on what I've seen and experienced.  

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« Reply #170 on: October 21, 2020, 07:49:05 PM »

The irony in all this talking about dogs and what constitutes animal abuse - which I'm sure people reading the thread are thinking is off topic with regards to The BBs, and I'm practically waiting for someone to angrily post about how dare we discuss this on a Beach Boys forum - is that it doesn't take much to get the convo back on topic of The Beach Boys intertwined with Trump adjacent stuff, one only needs to think back to February of this year and the actions of good ol' ethical, good, decent person Mike E. Love.

Just take advice from Mike, and the decent people he associates with and shills for, and the shows he plays under the Beach Boys name, and go shoot some animals for kicks, shits, and giggles... and then maybe the right course of action on how to treat misbehaving animals (you know, when animals do naughty things like actually living and breathing) will become apparent.

 
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« Reply #171 on: October 21, 2020, 08:01:51 PM »

The irony in all this talking about dogs and what constitutes animal abuse - which I'm sure people reading the thread are thinking is off topic with regards to The BBs, and I'm practically waiting for someone to angrily post about how dare we discuss this on a Beach Boys forum - is that it doesn't take much to get the convo back on topic of The Beach Boys intertwined with Trump adjacent stuff, one only needs to think back to February of this year and the actions of good ol' ethical, good, decent person Mike E. Love.

Just take advice from Mike, and the decent people he associates with and shills for, and the shows he plays under the Beach Boys name, and go shoot some animals for kicks, shits, and giggles... and then maybe the right course of action on how to treat misbehaving animals (you know, when animals do naughty things like actually living and breathing) will become apparent.

 

I will never forgive Mike for that.  I'm not even talking about the ethics of hunting wildlife, but rather the off-the-charts hypocrisy of Mike peace-love-and-protect-the-environment Love playing for a trophy hunting organization.  I vowed then I'd never go see him again and it pains me that any BB purchases I make benefit him.  At this point, I feel nothing but anxiety at the prospect of a 60 anniversary tour because my feelings towards Mike are so negative.   
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« Reply #172 on: October 21, 2020, 08:10:11 PM »

Can we also talk about Bruce for a second?  He gets away practically scot-free with all this crap.  I know Mike calls the shots, but what, is Bruce suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?  No, he's a wealthy, grown man with free will, he doesn't have to keep touring and doing these highly questionable shows.  He gets  a tiny fraction of the criticism that Mike gets, despite going along with EVERY one of Mike's terrible, polarizing and hurtful actions.  I understand that his own political views are clearly similar to Mike's, but surely he can see the problems that these actions cause for Brian, Al, etc...We talk about Mike being a narcissist (which he is) but Bruce isn't much better. 
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« Reply #173 on: October 21, 2020, 08:47:49 PM »

Can we also talk about Bruce for a second?  He gets away practically scot-free with all this crap.  I know Mike calls the shots, but what, is Bruce suffering from Stockholm Syndrome?  No, he's a wealthy, grown man with free will, he doesn't have to keep touring and doing these highly questionable shows.  He gets  a tiny fraction of the criticism that Mike gets, despite going along with EVERY one of Mike's terrible, polarizing and hurtful actions.  I understand that his own political views are clearly similar to Mike's, but surely he can see the problems that these actions cause for Brian, Al, etc...We talk about Mike being a narcissist (which he is) but Bruce isn't much better.  

I too was thinking about Bruce and this very subject earlier today, and yep you're totally right. Mike gets way more heat since he's in charge of the fake BBs "ship" so to speak, and also because he repeatedly throws gasoline on the fire by talking about Brian in an insultingly infantilizing manner "if Brian can come out and play" as recently as this week, and plus because it's especially more gross and sinister seeing as he's Brian's flesh and blood (which he reminds the world of endlessly, just like his Beach Boys omnipresent hat, because his ego can't take it if he isn't CERTAIN that everyone in his presence knows who he is and who he's related to AT ALL TIMES).

But that said, Bruce is most definitely a highly-privileged, highly out-of-touch, unethical piece of crap himself for doing these utterly reprehensible shows. Although a very talented piece of crap, when he wants to be. I agree it's just as unforgivable that Bruce goes along with this. Bruce just clearly really loves money, and has zero problem turning a blind eye to the realities of this stuff. Truly as out of touch as one can get. Raised by very wealthy parents, I picture his childhood something like Richie Rich, but who knows how that unethical weirdo is wired. One almost would wonder if Mike has dirt on Bruce to keep getting the endless smooth sailing on everything, who knows. I mean, Mike's dreamboat Trump has dirt on everyone, these circles of really repugnant, money-and-power-is-EVERYTHING rich people are gross as f*ck.

The way that Rocky mysteriously changed his tune (the optics come across as almost mafia-esque) really makes you wonder what Mike is capable of behind the scenes to keep the charade going on all sorts of levels, and shut up dissenters like a ham-fisted third world dictator. On the other hand, maybe it's as simple and innocuous as giant wads of money that Mike keeps throwing at unscrupulous people like Bruce and Rocky who will literally do anything including selling their souls (in in Rocky's case, his body  - I recall reading he actually was, for real, a male hooker/escort in the not too distant past) for a buck.  But it's really, REALLY funny how Rocky and that hack co-author expect anyone to believe that Mike didn't "get to Rocky" in one way or another. Genuinely laugh out loud amusing for them to think people are stupid enough to think otherwise, after what Rocky posted here.

But I do (and always have) found it very interesting and suspect that post 1998, Bruce seemed to REALLY amp up his praising of Mike in interviews. It felt like there was some PR conversation behind the scenes as some sort of orchestrated move to help Mike "build cred" by having the one and only bandmate willing to build up Mike's contributions be very vocal about it repeatedly, in interview after interview. It felt very staged, as staged as Brian smiling at the camera in highly produced concert footage. Bruce really kisses Mike's ass, and their relationship is a mystery because from most accounts it would seem they don't socialize together at all. Maybe I-ONLY-CARE-ABOUT-MONEY Bruce thinks that the more he pumps up Mike, the more money Mike's shows will generate, and then Bruce will profit more. I just don't see Bruce repeatedly doing that ass-kissing purely out of the goodness of his heart.

These ultra wealthy gross guys, devoid of ethics, operate on barter, I don't think they do things out of being good people, because I don't believe them to be good people; I remain convinced that Mike is angling to get something from Donald Trump, seeing how Trump throws around Presidential Medals of Honor to unworthy hack racist "celebrity" morons like Rush Limbaugh like it ain't no thing. Mike knows if he sticks like glue to Trump for long enough with unwavering support that SS Trump demands, and if Trump (heaven forbid) should win reelection, that he'll eventually get some sort of return on his asskissing investment. No doubt that this has crossed his mind.

MOST ESPECIALLY Mike knows he'd get something from Trump if Trump wins re-election, considering Mike played a big ass fundraiser to help Trump get re-elected. That's next level. What other celebrity, especially of Mike's advanced age, OTHER than Mike, has been as consistent a champion of Trump in a public way? Sure you have guys like Jon Voight, but Mike knows that Mike is the underdog of underdogs, that he himself is "undervalued" and hasn't gotten enough praise to the degree that Mike wants on a big public level.  

PLUS Mike's constant "AMERICA'S BAND" promo makes him a prime candidate for some sort of Trump prize, moreso than just about anyone else from the idiot pro-Trump celebrity scene, since it aligns so perfectly with the whole MAGA nonsense, and Mike knows it. The fact that Mike is ancient only makes him more of a prime candidate, and Mike knows that too.

Just like the Oscars. The Oscars of sh*t. Mike's the long-frustrated "artist" who's never won an Ego Oscar, and dammit, now is his time, especially with his longtime buddy Trump (longer-time friends than just about any other celebrity who is still consistently shilling for Trump) being the sole person in charge of divvying out the Ego Oscars. Trump could easily make that happen for Mike, if for no other reason than as a personal favor. Because that's how Trump works.  Y'all know this is actually a logical scenario (despite how ridiculous it sounds), this is just how things are in bizarro Trumpland. Search your souls, you know this to be true. It's not offbase.

Mike wants something he can rub in Brian's face. In his mind, his ego will have reached a new platitude if he gets such an award from Trump, and the dangling carrot of that prize I feel certain is at least partly incentivizing Mike's endless summer of swallowing orange loads from the hack president.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 09:40:17 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #174 on: October 21, 2020, 10:46:01 PM »

The hatred for Mike has gotten pretty extreme on here.

I understand on twitter or yahoo when his name is trending, or a daily mail article or some hipster website where the Beach Boys were only Brian Wilson but we all know what Mike contributed, we all know that he's given us more than enough.. respect should be shown.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2020, 10:48:57 PM by Shady » Logged

According to someone who would know.

Seriously, there was a Beach Boys Love You condom?!  Amazing.
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