Trump fundraiser in Orange County featuring Mike and 'The Beach Boys'

[Kid Presentable]

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

[HeyJude]

[joe_blow]

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

Or just follow the herd without evidence? Still awaiting a response to my "Pro Trump" thread without name calling. If you don't vote Biden you ain't_____. Fill that in and justify your vote.

[Reverberation]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

[HeyJude]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

Not the same. You either get it or you don't.  This transcends politics,  which is why there wasn't nearly this much disgust the 87 other times pre-2016 that Mike and Bruce expressed their political views. 

[marcella27]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

I thought the shows with Reagan were billed as "patriotic" shows involving the sitting president.  If I'm correct, that's very different from playing a campaign fundraiser two weeks before an election.  Mike is not playing for Trump in his capacity as the president, but rather as a candidate.
 

[marcella27]

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.

[rab2591]

Know what's interesting? It is Trump supporters who are called fascists. It is Trump supporters who are called violent. It is Trump supporters who are called "termites". I even saw someone wish COVID-19 on someone in this thread. Ever think that the vehemently unstable discrimination and taunting of Trump supporters is actually a form of fascism: where you are name-calling, berating, and delegitimizing a group of people for being different than you?

It is interesting, because, in the past, I have always thought of left leaning people to be a lot more understanding about the plight and shortcomings of fellow human beings. But anytime I see someone out themselves as a Trump supporter they are disavowed, cast away, berated, name-called, in some cases they are physically assaulted by someone on the left. It's to the point where some of the biggest social-media companies are censoring and blocking people due to a political leaning...that in itself is definitely a form of fascism.

If you haven't already, read up on the tolerance of intolerance paradox.

I'm not saying that people need to sit idly by. I'm saying that if there are facts to be presented, present them in a rational manner. If someone is spreading disinformation, correct it without name-calling or discrimination. Some have been very cordial in this thread, some not. I just hope the latter (on whatever political side) would realize that mocking people, genitalia, wishing disease, or outright cutting ties with fellow posters isn't going to bring about the world we want to live in.

no, you don't need to respect fascist behavior or tolerate it.

But you also shouldn't fight bigotry with more bigotry. You shouldn't fight fascism with more fascism. You can't fight hate with more hate and expect a good outcome. There was an African American on Joe Rogan's podcast who talked about taking members of the Klan out to lunch just to talk with them. He ended up helping so many Klan members leave the KKK just by simply treating these people with a little dignity (when they probably didn't deserve it). He didn't stand for fascist behavior and fought against it, but he did so with an open mind/heart, instead of with hateful words and divisiveness.

This is exactly what I was trying to say.  If someone says something you personally find offensive or problematic, the answer is not to tell them to F off.  How do you think we got into this polarized mess that society is in right now?  People have always had different opinions and they always will, but now we seem to be unable to act like grown-ups about it.  That does NOT mean tolerating bigotry of any sort.  It means expressing one's opinions in a civil way, listening to others, and sometimes, agreeing to disagree.  

It's very sad to me that people who are here because they love the band might feel they can't be here because of their political beliefs.    

There is a difference between offensive and dangerous.... in this case, the guy with the "opinions" that wearing masks are more harmful than not wearing masks because you "breathe your own exhaust back in", and that we aren't actually dealing with a pandemic at all right now, needs to be shouted down like you would to an animal that is misbehaving.  Over and over again until they maybe start to "get it".  Anything less will not be effective due to their lack of reason, anything more than shouting might cease to be legal.

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

Also, I would never "shout down" an animal (assuming you're referring to dogs, cats,  pets).  Not cool.

Agreed. If this is a matter of life and death I don’t understand why name-calling would be the first reaction to mis/disinformation. If someone is ill-informed then just rationally correct them instead of...shouting at them like they are an animal? If falsehoods are being spread, for the good of everyone please just state facts to refute these falsehoods instead of grabbing pitchforks.

If facts are on your side then just merely present them. I say this because there could be people legitimately confused by the false information, and if you know better, and it could save lives, it is your responsibility to present the facts. And one could argue “they are too far gone to understand the facts” - then don’t do it for them but do it for the confused person who randomly scans this thread and walks away with the impression that Nathan and Joe_Blow seem to be correct because no one has refuted any of their points by presenting actual evidence...one of the first responses to Nathan was “I hope you get Covid”. Someone else said that the information Nathan shared was wrong but cited no sources that could refute the information.

It looks very poorly on the side of the “truth” when shouting someone down like they’re an animal is your initial and only reaction to hearing falsehoods instead of just presenting the truth in a calm and sensible manner...which does a lot more good for the world than treating someone like they’re a dog and you’re a real shitty owner.

[roffels]

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

It probably has to do with this mentality: https://www.boredpanda.com/bar-bartender-nazi-punk-iamragesparkle/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic - and I get that whole thread reads like a fwd:fwd:fwd exchange that likely did not happen.

Ever been on a forum where people are casually racist/fascist/sexist/ and/or anti-science? Where the topics are open for debate? They're not that pleasant and those opinions are peppered throughout - not my culture and it's exhausting. I don't think shouting down is about getting your ideological "getting it" - it's about setting house rules and making it clear that they should take their opinions somewhere else. I understand the call for civility, it's asking for a lot of patience, emotional intelligence, and capacity for empathy that not everyone is equipped to give. Props to that black musician who rehabilitated some klan members, he is a saint.  Kudos to you all if you follow that path, the world would be a better place.

[rab2591]

I agree that these opinions about the pandemic are dangerous. However, I dont think I've ever seen "shouting down" lead to the other person suddenly "getting it".  100% of the time it will alienate the person.   

It probably has to do with this mentality: https://www.boredpanda.com/bar-bartender-nazi-punk-iamragesparkle/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=organic - and I get that whole thread reads like a fwd:fwd:fwd exchange that likely did not happen.

Ever been on a forum where people are casually racist/fascist/sexist/ and/or anti-science? Where the topics are open for debate? They're not that pleasant and those opinions are peppered throughout - not my culture and it's exhausting. I don't think shouting down is about getting your ideological "getting it" - it's about setting house rules and making it clear that they should take their opinions somewhere else. I understand the call for civility, it's asking for a lot of patience, emotional intelligence, and capacity for empathy that not everyone is equipped to give. Props to that black musician who rehabilitated some klan members, he is a saint.  Kudos to you all if you follow that path, the world would be a better place.

My point is that Trump supporters are accused of being fascist but what you just described (highlighted in yellow and in bold) is fascism: forcible suppression of opposition. I hope everyone can see the hypocrisy there.

You've brought up the tolerance of intolerance paradox. But I think what you're failing to recognize is that you're then assuming that Trump supporters are lesser-than-human status that deserve sub-human treatment when in fact not every single Trump supporter is a neo-nazi hell-bent on destroying the world. When you generalize an entire group of people you become the type of person you supposedly abhor. I know so many people who voted for Obama TWICE who are Trump supporters now. There is an ever-growing movement of African American's who support Trump (according to multiple recent polls Trump has gained a bit of African American support since 2016) - and I specifically bring this up because if people are going to flatly state that Trump and all of his supporters are dumb racists then you are either questioning the intelligence of 25% of likely African American voters or you are turning a blind eye to this fact.

Either way, you can't treat the Trump supporting population like they're not even worthy of hearing facts (to the point people want them booted from this forum) - because you delegitimize your own platform and thus create an atmosphere of uncertainty regarding your own ideology that doesn't sway too many moderates to your side. If you have facts, please use them! I implore it for the good of the country/world. If people are going to die if we don't wear masks, then please cite the source that shows that masks can help prevent this....like this link. If Nathan or Joe have scientific evidence that refutes this, by all means post it and please explain it in detail. My wife works in healthcare and completely understands how less-effective cloth masks are compared to N95 masks. However, we also wear masks when we're at the grocery store and other places because if we unknowingly have the virus, it can help keep others from getting the virus.

Back to my main point, the side that claims to have science and truth on it's side should not lower themselves to bigoted and discriminating behavior. Resorting to bullying and refusing to refute falsehoods with credible sources only legitimizes the viewpoints that you think are wrong...and in the end it is more harmful to the world, because when falsehoods go unchecked then more and more people are going to be swayed by that false information.

roffels, I appreciate your posts and I hope I don't come across as speaking from a high horse. I myself can use my own advice, not only in the field of politics but also when it comes to discussing The Beach Boys. I'm not the most tolerant person at times but I do see the endless value of treating others with civility.

[B.E.]

First I just want to say that I side with much of Sam_BFC, rab2591, and marcella27's posts in this thread. Too bad there's not a 'like' button here!

Not a fan of politicization. I don't mind art that speaks in a political manner, but when groups simply play their unrelated tracks at an event like this it just seems like a lazy play for support.
It's a far cry from something like "What's Going On", or stuff like that. Spreading a message and talking about the world. I don't like when artists do events like this for anyone. (Remember the cringe-fest for Clinton in 2016...all those artists who have probably never even voted... yikes)

It's his right, it's legal and he has the right to use the name. I wouldn't even call it entirely morally wrong. But it is absolutely a half-assed and entirely non-artistic show of support. The bad kind of politicization for sure.

Interesting distinction, FatherOfTheMan. Very thought-provoking.

[jeffh]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

Because trump is a monster?

[Summertime Blooz]

The troubling fact that certain Beach Boys are prize-winning douche bags shouldn't come as breaking news to followers of this forum, but this sort of occurrence does make it harder to separate the person from the music.

[joe_blow]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

Because trump is a monster?

Great rhetoric. Is it because he put kids in cages...oh wait that was Obama, was it not? Is it because he donates his salary? Please explain the evidence of being a monster. Still waiting for the answers on why you seem to be against the good things The President has accomplished.

[SMiLE Brian]

 This is a BBs forum...

[Lonely Summer]

It's about time Mike Love was stripped of his touring license as The Beach Boys, and banished to a life of touring nursing homes and hat shops as "Mike Love and his Endless Covid Summer Band featuring Bruce "Short Shorts" Johnston and John "Uncle Jesse" Stamos". The bald one has brought nothing but disgrace to the name, he's a not-talent that would be pumping gas in Kokomo if not for his cousin Brian. He sings like his nose is on the critical list, and he's incapable of writing a lyric that doesn't reference Good Vibrations, Fun Fun Fun, and Surfer Girls.
That's not enough, though. The Maharishi of Bad Press should be prevented from performing any of the classic Brian Wilson composed Beach Boys hits. He can still sing the many hits he composed without Brian - Kokomo, and .....and....well, he might have to stick to selections from Summer in Paradise and covers like Barbara Ann.
Let's take this a step further or farther, though - let's remove the vocals of the Nasal One from all Beach Boys recordings; surely Brian or Al could sing any of those songs better - even today. Give a few of the leads to Matt Jardine or Blondie or Darian. We can paste Darian's face over Mike's on all the album covers, too.

[HeyJude]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

Because trump is a monster?

Great rhetoric. Is it because he put kids in cages...oh wait that was Obama, was it not? Is it because he donates his salary? Please explain the evidence of being a monster. Still waiting for the answers on why you seem to be against the good things The President has accomplished.

Looking at your post history, especially your recent post history, you seem to be far more interested talking about politics than you do the BBs. I'm pretty sure there are many, many, many forums (e.g. the entirety of Twitter) to discuss politics without pesky Beach Boys topics getting in the way. That way, you don't have to wait for someone on a Beach Boys forum to say something negative about a politician you like. On Twitter for instance, you can post about politics as much as you want with no prompting whatsoever.

It's like going into a political forum and waiting for someone to say they don't like the Beach Boys and then haranguing them about it. What's the point?

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

[rab2591]

So, and I'm not trying to get into a political argument or anything, but I don't really understand how this is all that different from the Beach Boys playing for Reagan back in the 80s and their close associations with him and Bush Sr.

Because trump is a monster?

Great rhetoric. Is it because he put kids in cages...oh wait that was Obama, was it not? Is it because he donates his salary? Please explain the evidence of being a monster. Still waiting for the answers on why you seem to be against the good things The President has accomplished.

Looking at your post history, especially your recent post history, you seem to be far more interested talking about politics than you do the BBs. I'm pretty sure there are many, many, many forums (e.g. the entirety of Twitter) to discuss politics without pesky Beach Boys topics getting in the way. That way, you don't have to wait for someone on a Beach Boys forum to say something negative about a politician you like. On Twitter for instance, you can post about politics as much as you want with no prompting whatsoever.

It's like going into a political forum and waiting for someone to say they don't like the Beach Boys and then haranguing them about it. What's the point?

If a moritiorium on political talk is going to apply to Trump supporters then it should absolutely apply to everyone then. But this topic kinda forces us to talk about politics because politics are one of the reasons many are so upset about The Beach Boys playing this event. And if one side is allowed to share their viewpoint on the political aspect of this discussion then I think the other side should absolutely have this right as well.

And I think it's for the good of the forum that people are as descriptive and detailed as possible in their responses here. If people are going to say "Trump is a monster and that's why Mike shouldn't play this gig" then give specific reasons as to why Trump is a monster. I think this would be incredibly beneficial for two reasons:

One, if specific reasons were given in the first place then it would be an open and shut case that Mike shouldn't play this gig based on politics and people like Joe_Blow couldn't respond with these random talking points that validate their viewpoint (however I would like to correct Joe: Obama did build and use the "cages" but Trump used them too - it wasn't just Obama that used them as your post implies).

Two, people shouldn't assume that everyone here keeps up with the news or the latest Sunday morning shows. And we also shouldn't assume that people who look back on these threads decades from now will be as read-up on this era of politics as we are. This forum is a time-capsule of sorts, an encyclopedia that future Beach Boys fans will probably mine for information, and it is our responsibility to be as factual and detailed as possible for the sake of a proper historical record of this band's activities.

Just my two cents. If others are allowed to share their political viewpoints in this thread I don't see why others with different viewpoints are being led away from this forum. It is likely easy to refute many of the points that Nathan and Joe have brought up. And it is also likely easy to cite and source the reasons, politically, why Mike should not align The Beach Boys brand with Donald Trump. This is a forum and there will be disagreements, it is best we handle those disagreements like adults and explain our viewpoints.

I have already stated my reasons as to why Mike should not play this gig. And on top of that, I agree with those who brought up Donald Trump Jr mocking Brian Wilson for being a "triggered liberal" during the trophy hunting gig. After that incident Mike should have had the decency to pull out of the trophy hunting gig as well as cutting ties with anything to do with the Trump family from then on. Absolute shame he is dragging the band through the mud yet again.

[HeyJude]

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.

[CenturyDeprived]

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.

Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible.  

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Just look at Chris Christie as a recent example. Granted he himself was in the high risk group, but there are countless people who have died who seemed healthy and were not obese or elderly. I'd like to see the people in this thread who are downplaying Covid and observe how they would react if their own healthy spouse or child died from Covid, would their tune change? Not that I'm wishing that on anybody, but I have a suspicion that they would not be of that same mindset anymore if something like that happened to them.

Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to proactively empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

[HeyJude]

If a moritiorium on political talk is going to apply to Trump supporters then it should absolutely apply to everyone then. But this topic kinda forces us to talk about politics because politics are one of the reasons many are so upset about The Beach Boys playing this event. And if one side is allowed to share their viewpoint on the political aspect of this discussion then I think the other side should absolutely have this right as well.

Nope, nope, back up.

There is a difference between discussing how politics plays into a development in the Beach Boys world and just lurking on a Beach Boys board (or near lurking) and then just swooping in with a political post with zero BB content just to offer a rebuttal to something they don't like.

Obviously, any time someone in the BB world (meaning almost always Mike) does something involving politics that many or most find abhorrent, there's a quick slippery slope from discussing how it impacts the BBs to then just turning into another tired political debate that could be had anywhere.

But the people I'm talking about are a small group of members here who rarely post, whose post history clearly shows that they don't participate or add much to any regular BB discussions, and seem to mostly post only quick, often snide political posts with zero BB content.

So yeah, if someone posts *about* the BBs and also talks about politics, that *is* different than someone plucking a political comment *out* of that post and then just rebutting political talking points. This often seems to happen with posters who otherwise mostly lurk, which indicates to me that they don't have much interest in posting about the BB's, but do have interest in posting about politics. There are other places for that.

In short, I'm much less suspicious of the motives of a poster here who posts something veering into politics who *also* has regularly posted about the BBs. It tells me they might be getting roped into some political stuff, which may or may not end up working well on the board, but that they're coming from a place first and foremost of being a BB fan. I'm more suspicious of lurkers who mostly or exclusively appear out of nowhere only to A) Defend Mike Love in general, B) Defend Mike Love's politics, and C) Defend Trump, et al. While I can't assume such people have *no* interest in the BBs if they're on this board, this posting pattern indicates they don't seem interested in contributing to the board in terms of BB fandom or scholarship, and that's fine if folks want to lurk. But when someone only goes out of shy lurker mode to post political talking points, that's unfortunate and indicative of all the things I've already laid out.

[rab2591]

A former coworker  of mine passed away this morning due to Covid...next person who claims Covid is a hoax is out of here . Take that sh*t elsewhere

Agreed.

Even the cesspool that is Twitter is at least taking some measures to block factually misleading stuff about COVID.

It boggles my mind. Empathy/sympathy requires next to no effort, and yet some people just can't even muster that.

Absolutely.

Billy, my sincerest condolences for your loss. That's terrible. 

It's remarkable how Trumpy people, who then firsthand experience a loss due to Covid of somebody who wasn't necessarily even in a high-risk group, might be the first to change their tune if they were previously downplaying it. Why is it that it takes a personal experience to do that as opposed to empathizing with others? Boggles my mind. That's the same mindset as Narcissist Mike "he's never been anything but nice to us" Love.

Billy, I'm very sorry to hear this

And CenturyDeprived, I think it's a matter of there being conflicting reports from the very beginning of the pandemic that led many people to distrust the news and their political leaders. When Trump was shutting down air travel to China many politicians here were here in America telling people to get out in the streets en mass and ignore the virus. We were told by Fauci that masks were useless then he changed his tune about that. There is an ocean of misinformation/disinformation and conflicting reports that have only served to hurt public trust in media and leadership (on both sides of the aisle) in this country.

I have friends who have lost loved ones due to COVID, my good friend still hasn't recovered his sense of smell or taste and he got the virus months ago, I can't see a dying family member right now because of this virus. So I for one do not see this thing as a hoax, it's a serious disease. I hope those of us who see things from this perspective can have sympathy/empathy on those who are so far led astray to think that this virus doesn't even exist...as in, while I vehemently oppose their viewpoint, I also realize there is so much bullshit information out there (and has been from the beginning) that many people just don't know any better. Which is why, you're absolutely right, it takes a personal experience for many of these people to realize that this virus absolutely exists and absolutely is deadly. It's a sad reality. But this is why fighting falsehoods with facts is extremely important right now. It can save lives.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

Century, because too many people only care about themselves.

[rab2591]

If a moritiorium on political talk is going to apply to Trump supporters then it should absolutely apply to everyone then. But this topic kinda forces us to talk about politics because politics are one of the reasons many are so upset about The Beach Boys playing this event. And if one side is allowed to share their viewpoint on the political aspect of this discussion then I think the other side should absolutely have this right as well.

Nope, nope, back up.

There is a difference between discussing how politics plays into a development in the Beach Boys world and just lurking on a Beach Boys board (or near lurking) and then just swooping in with a political post with zero BB content just to offer a rebuttal to something they don't like.

Obviously, any time someone in the BB world (meaning almost always Mike) does something involving politics that many or most find abhorrent, there's a quick slippery slope from discussing how it impacts the BBs to then just turning into another tired political debate that could be had anywhere.

But the people I'm talking about are a small group of members here who rarely post, whose post history clearly shows that they don't participate or add much to any regular BB discussions, and seem to mostly post only quick, often snide political posts with zero BB content.

So yeah, if someone posts *about* the BBs and also talks about politics, that *is* different than someone plucking a political comment *out* of that post and then just rebutting political talking points. This often seems to happen with posters who otherwise mostly lurk, which indicates to me that they don't have much interest in posting about the BB's, but do have interest in posting about politics. There are other places for that.

In short, I'm much less suspicious of the motives of a poster here who posts something veering into politics who *also* has regularly posted about the BBs. It tells me they might be getting roped into some political stuff, which may or may not end up working well on the board, but that they're coming from a place first and foremost of being a BB fan. I'm more suspicious of lurkers who mostly or exclusively appear out of nowhere only to A) Defend Mike Love in general, B) Defend Mike Love's politics, and C) Defend Trump, et al. While I can't assume such people have *no* interest in the BBs if they're on this board, this posting pattern indicates they don't seem interested in contributing to the board in terms of BB fandom or scholarship, and that's fine if folks want to lurk. But when someone only goes out of shy lurker mode to post political talking points, that's unfortunate and indicative of all the things I've already laid out.

I definitely see your point here. And with that said I do think this very situation stresses the importance of posters being as detailed as possible and listing facts in the first place so there wouldn't be much room (if any) for argument from the side bringing in falsehoods...be they longtime BB-topic posters or political rabble-rousers.