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Author Topic: Brian Solo piano album  (Read 2313 times)
DonnyL
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« Reply #25 on: June 10, 2020, 04:38:08 PM »

Oh! Thatís right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - thereís a reflection and GASP! thereís Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

Whatís the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? Itís a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brianís touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude canít even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all ďoH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!Ē Iíd hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us ďfansĒ, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isnít making albums anymore because he doesnít want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment Iím just glad weíre treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear youíre living life to the fullest!

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2020, 04:44:05 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2020, 04:40:35 PM »

We need to stop this stupid idea that all modern studio technology is bad, and everything was better before. Because the truth is, it wasnít. Sure, there are a lot of modern production techniques that can be taken way too far. But lets stop getting mad when we notice that Pitch corrector, or some other ProTools plug-in is being used, and realize that itís 2020. Of course theyíre going to use whatís available nowadays. and in 2020, much like everything else, music production is Digital, and mostly done on computers. And thereís absolutely nothing wrong with that
I would love to elaborate, without today's technology, we would probably still be listening to records in mono, or having instruments panned onto one side and the other ala the Beatles! I think modern music technology just leads to more flexibility for the producer and musicians involved. I think about old piano recordings from Laura Nyro or Todd Rundgren, and the fidelity just can't compare to something even from the 80's or with American Spring. With old recordings, you get a lot of noise and compression due to bouncing from tape to vinyl/analog media. Digital music production has come a long way, and I firmly believe that the technology itself is not at fault for a lot of the overproduction that plagues many records today. To me, I specifically blame whoever mixes and masters the music, as it is typically mastered as loudly as possible in order to compare to specific frequencies of other contemporary songs.

I don't want to open that can of worms, but to me, to say that modern microphones or technology like Protools is to blame for some mediocre shlock of a production, I also think about some of Brian's better modern efforts like Lucky Old Sun, Gershwin, and Smile as examples of well-engineered works. The fidelity just doesn't compare!

As for auto-tune/pitch correction, etc. I also see double-tracking vocals as a form of pitch correction, so let's not put the blame on newer tech for that, when clearly, it was pioneered by the  himself!

The tools are definitely to blame IMO. Necessity is the mother of invention ... fewer options equal more creativity (Brian plucking piano strings for the intro of "You Still Believe In Me" vs. finding a patch on a digital keyboard, etc.)
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« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2020, 05:22:13 PM »

Just wanted to throw my two cents in... as an EDM artist Iím the last person to besmirch the use of the latest tech! All I was saying is that Iíd personally like an album featuring a stripped down Brian and the piano type album
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« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2020, 05:51:46 PM »

Oh! Thatís right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - thereís a reflection and GASP! thereís Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

Whatís the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? Itís a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brianís touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude canít even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all ďoH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!Ē Iíd hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us ďfansĒ, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isnít making albums anymore because he doesnít want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment Iím just glad weíre treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear youíre living life to the fullest!

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.

Oh absolutely that happens. Politics happen when it comes to album releases - heck, apparently Sloop John B wasn't intended for Pet Sounds and Capitol lobbied for it to be on the album (or something like that) - album politics relating to major labels happen to EVERY artist...the Reverberation/Feel Flows thread proves that labels have huge influence over what an artist releases - it doesn't mean that Melinda is maniacally pulling strings. Point being, yeah, Brian records things that most people don't see the light of day of (which are awesome)...but this isn't anything unusual to Brian Wilson, or music artists in general.

But my point is about Brian being forced to tour. Again, take a look at the Jeff Beck sessions: Brian refused to participate because it was a project he wanted zip to do with -he just sat there annoyed that someone set the project up. So, if Brian didn't want to tour, Brian would sit in his lay-z-boy recliner and refuse to leave the house. But yet here we are, the 387th thread that Lonely Summer has to interject the SOS BRIAN IS BEING FORCED TO TOUR PLS HELP...and yet Brian happily sings the songs he wrote to happy audiences.

Again, the hilarious irony that someone like Lonely Summer is pissed off that Brian is being "forced" to tour, yet given his tirades it sounds like he himself would force Brian to stay home for his well being if he were "in charge" of the guy. Fortunately, in this thing called reality, Brian is in charge of himself.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 01:23:18 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2020, 06:05:15 PM »

Oh! Thatís right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - thereís a reflection and GASP! thereís Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

Whatís the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? Itís a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brianís touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude canít even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all ďoH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!Ē Iíd hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us ďfansĒ, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isnít making albums anymore because he doesnít want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment Iím just glad weíre treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear youíre living life to the fullest!

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.

Oh absolutely that happens. Heck, the Gershwin album had a phenomenal mix done by Darien (and I think someone else) and due to politics they opted for someone else to mix the dang album and it didn't sound as good. Politics happen when it comes to album releases - heck, apparently Sloop John B wasn't intended for Pet Sounds and Capitol lobbied for it to be on the album (or something like that) - album politics relating to major labels happen to EVERY artist. Point being, yeah, Brian records things that most people don't see the light of day of (which are awesome)...but this isn't anything unusual to Brian Wilson, or music artists in general.

But my point is about Brian being forced to tour. Again, take a look at the Jeff Beck sessions: Brian refused to participate because it was a project he wanted zip to do with -he just sat there annoyed that someone set the project up. So, if Brian didn't want to tour, Brian would sit in his lay-z-boy recliner and refuse to leave the house. But yet here we are, the 387th thread that Lonely Summer has to interject the SOS BRIAN IS BEING FORCED TO TOUR PLS HELP...and yet Brian happily sings the songs he wrote to happy audiences.

Again, the hilarious irony that someone like Lonely Summer is pissed off that Brian is being "forced" to tour, yet given his tirades it sounds like he himself would force Brian to stay home for his well being if he were "in charge" of the guy. Fortunately, in this thing called reality, Brian is in charge of himself.

That is true - There are cases like the Gershwin album where record companies stepped in and made changes to certain things beyond control of the artist and artist's management. The Gershwin example is one, deciding which song to promote over others on NPP is another, and there are more. While there are some fully autonomous artist deals with labels where they can call all the shots, those are still few and far between and there are still people at these labels who will reject mix after mix until it "sounds like a hit" to their sometimes warped ears. That's how it is and how it has been unless the artist has a full-control contract that includes post-production which no label guy in a suit can veto.

The forcing Brian to tour issue is and has been absurd, and it's ridiculous. Those people still saying that bullshit, maybe they could offer some proof to back up what they say or STFU. I'd rather debate a flat-Earther than tackle this anymore. It's funny how they're the same age, but none of these people seem to want or suggest the same "he's almost 80, time to retire" from Mike Love that they do Brian, regarding both touring and recording. I guess with lyrics like "kinda like a viral Super Bowl", that's the opposite of "delusional" fans talking about a hypothetical fantasy solo piano/vocal album from Brian? Who knows.  LOL

 
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« Reply #30 on: June 10, 2020, 06:18:29 PM »

Regarding the points about technology and mastering (which someone mentioned previously), there is *no doubt* in my mind that both mixing and mastering techniques changed drastically since roughly 2000. There have been entire articles published about the mastering on the album "Californication" by RHCP, and how the mastering was insanely loud and boosted to the nth degree, which was shocking at the time, but which caught on industry-wide and is now the standard. I have certain albums on the original vinyl from the 50's...and also on CD remasters from the 80's...and again on yet another remaster CD from after 2000. I cannot listen to the one after 2000. It's mastered so loud that certain parts literally peak out and distort. The whole texture is different, the entire soundscape sounds different, and the boosting detracts from the music. This was music recorded live in a room, not overdubbed or stacked or given wild mixes originally. It is really quite a difference even from the earlier CD reissues I have.

Consider why the industry does this. When one hit album breaks the mold, they all follow. When one genre starts boosting bass to ridiculous levels, other genres assume listeners across all styles will be accustomed to hearing that and they all do it. They also don't want someone's "playlist" containing 30 current hits to have one of those hits sound unlike the others, so they all boost and boost.

Any accident that so many people listening with "Beats" headphones and waterproof Bluetooth speaker canisters are hearing bass and other frequency boosts that the artist never intended? Any accident that car audio systems boost and thump based on the demographic they think is buying the cars? Any accident they create mixes to be heard through ear buds and Bluetooth headsets instead of actual speakers? Or, even worse, a tiny little speaker port on a smartphone?

The whole game changed. I blame the radical shift in the delivery systems of music in the digital age as much as I do the mixing and recording technology available, if the issue is the quality or lack thereof of the overall sound. When you have songs mastered so hot that they are literally designed to clip and distort in the bass so that the demographic they're targeting listing on ear buds and smartphone speakers can "feel the bass", and that is the stuff getting zillions of streams and downloads, what necessity is there for the industry to return to more natural sounding products? And a lot of times, it is out of the artists' hands entirely.
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« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2020, 02:32:27 AM »

Oh! Thatís right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - thereís a reflection and GASP! thereís Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

Whatís the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? Itís a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brianís touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude canít even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all ďoH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!Ē Iíd hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us ďfansĒ, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isnít making albums anymore because he doesnít want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment Iím just glad weíre treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear youíre living life to the fullest!

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.

Oh absolutely that happens. Heck, the Gershwin album had a phenomenal mix done by Darien (and I think someone else) and due to politics they opted for someone else to mix the dang album and it didn't sound as good. Politics happen when it comes to album releases - heck, apparently Sloop John B wasn't intended for Pet Sounds and Capitol lobbied for it to be on the album (or something like that) - album politics relating to major labels happen to EVERY artist. Point being, yeah, Brian records things that most people don't see the light of day of (which are awesome)...but this isn't anything unusual to Brian Wilson, or music artists in general.

But my point is about Brian being forced to tour. Again, take a look at the Jeff Beck sessions: Brian refused to participate because it was a project he wanted zip to do with -he just sat there annoyed that someone set the project up. So, if Brian didn't want to tour, Brian would sit in his lay-z-boy recliner and refuse to leave the house. But yet here we are, the 387th thread that Lonely Summer has to interject the SOS BRIAN IS BEING FORCED TO TOUR PLS HELP...and yet Brian happily sings the songs he wrote to happy audiences.

Again, the hilarious irony that someone like Lonely Summer is pissed off that Brian is being "forced" to tour, yet given his tirades it sounds like he himself would force Brian to stay home for his well being if he were "in charge" of the guy. Fortunately, in this thing called reality, Brian is in charge of himself.

That is true - There are cases like the Gershwin album where record companies stepped in and made changes to certain things beyond control of the artist and artist's management. The Gershwin example is one, deciding which song to promote over others on NPP is another, and there are more. While there are some fully autonomous artist deals with labels where they can call all the shots, those are still few and far between and there are still people at these labels who will reject mix after mix until it "sounds like a hit" to their sometimes warped ears. That's how it is and how it has been unless the artist has a full-control contract that includes post-production which no label guy in a suit can veto.

The forcing Brian to tour issue is and has been absurd, and it's ridiculous. Those people still saying that bullshit, maybe they could offer some proof to back up what they say or STFU. I'd rather debate a flat-Earther than tackle this anymore. It's funny how they're the same age, but none of these people seem to want or suggest the same "he's almost 80, time to retire" from Mike Love that they do Brian, regarding both touring and recording. I guess with lyrics like "kinda like a viral Super Bowl", that's the opposite of "delusional" fans talking about a hypothetical fantasy solo piano/vocal album from Brian? Who knows.  LOL

 


rab2591, iirc - and this is really just from memory, so you may want to search the forum's older posts - Brian always intended Sloop John B. to be on Pet Sounds. There was a list or something of the album's tracks written by Brian before the single was a hit and he included the song.

The Gershwin album was mixed by Brian (and probably Scott Bennett ?) but Capitol hired Al Schmitt (who is more than "someone else") to remix it. According to people in the know, the final product didn't differ very much from Brian's earlier mix.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 02:37:32 AM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2020, 04:23:30 AM »

Rocker, thanks for the reply. I have heard mixed things about Sloop John B inclusion, I have heard both sides of the debate but wasnít sure what exactly the final verdict was.

As for Gershwin, Iíve heard different, but Iíll leave it at that. Also, I didnít mean to imply Al Schmitt was just ďsomeone elseĒ, whoever was involved wasnít really my point - the fact that there was a mix that sounded perfect and was re-done for politics sake was my point.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2020, 04:32:41 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2020, 08:40:15 AM »

Regarding the points about technology and mastering (which someone mentioned previously), there is *no doubt* in my mind that both mixing and mastering techniques changed drastically since roughly 2000. There have been entire articles published about the mastering on the album "Californication" by RHCP, and how the mastering was insanely loud and boosted to the nth degree, which was shocking at the time, but which caught on industry-wide and is now the standard. I have certain albums on the original vinyl from the 50's...and also on CD remasters from the 80's...and again on yet another remaster CD from after 2000. I cannot listen to the one after 2000. It's mastered so loud that certain parts literally peak out and distort. The whole texture is different, the entire soundscape sounds different, and the boosting detracts from the music. This was music recorded live in a room, not overdubbed or stacked or given wild mixes originally. It is really quite a difference even from the earlier CD reissues I have.

Consider why the industry does this. When one hit album breaks the mold, they all follow. When one genre starts boosting bass to ridiculous levels, other genres assume listeners across all styles will be accustomed to hearing that and they all do it. They also don't want someone's "playlist" containing 30 current hits to have one of those hits sound unlike the others, so they all boost and boost.

Any accident that so many people listening with "Beats" headphones and waterproof Bluetooth speaker canisters are hearing bass and other frequency boosts that the artist never intended? Any accident that car audio systems boost and thump based on the demographic they think is buying the cars? Any accident they create mixes to be heard through ear buds and Bluetooth headsets instead of actual speakers? Or, even worse, a tiny little speaker port on a smartphone?

The whole game changed. I blame the radical shift in the delivery systems of music in the digital age as much as I do the mixing and recording technology available, if the issue is the quality or lack thereof of the overall sound. When you have songs mastered so hot that they are literally designed to clip and distort in the bass so that the demographic they're targeting listing on ear buds and smartphone speakers can "feel the bass", and that is the stuff getting zillions of streams and downloads, what necessity is there for the industry to return to more natural sounding products? And a lot of times, it is out of the artists' hands entirely.
First of all, Iím talking about music released in 2020, not remasters of old music. When it comes to remasters of old music, it can be done great, like the 2017 wild honey, or horriblly, like the MIC mix of Sail Plane Song.
When it comes to new music though, if Brian drizzles a little Pitch corrector on his vocals, as long as itís not so much that he sounds like a robot, bhen I donít see the problem.
Also, if you want an example of an album that was mixed, mastered and even recorded way too loud, look up an album called Be Here Now by Oasis.
As for the loudness wars, there have always been terribly mixed and mastered albums.
I love Pet Sounds, but the original absolutely authentic 1966 vinyl sounds like muddled garbage
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« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2020, 09:53:45 AM »

Oh! Thatís right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - thereís a reflection and GASP! thereís Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

Whatís the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? Itís a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brianís touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude canít even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all ďoH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!Ē Iíd hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us ďfansĒ, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isnít making albums anymore because he doesnít want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment Iím just glad weíre treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear youíre living life to the fullest!

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.

Oh absolutely that happens. Heck, the Gershwin album had a phenomenal mix done by Darien (and I think someone else) and due to politics they opted for someone else to mix the dang album and it didn't sound as good. Politics happen when it comes to album releases - heck, apparently Sloop John B wasn't intended for Pet Sounds and Capitol lobbied for it to be on the album (or something like that) - album politics relating to major labels happen to EVERY artist. Point being, yeah, Brian records things that most people don't see the light of day of (which are awesome)...but this isn't anything unusual to Brian Wilson, or music artists in general.

But my point is about Brian being forced to tour. Again, take a look at the Jeff Beck sessions: Brian refused to participate because it was a project he wanted zip to do with -he just sat there annoyed that someone set the project up. So, if Brian didn't want to tour, Brian would sit in his lay-z-boy recliner and refuse to leave the house. But yet here we are, the 387th thread that Lonely Summer has to interject the SOS BRIAN IS BEING FORCED TO TOUR PLS HELP...and yet Brian happily sings the songs he wrote to happy audiences.

Again, the hilarious irony that someone like Lonely Summer is pissed off that Brian is being "forced" to tour, yet given his tirades it sounds like he himself would force Brian to stay home for his well being if he were "in charge" of the guy. Fortunately, in this thing called reality, Brian is in charge of himself.

That is true - There are cases like the Gershwin album where record companies stepped in and made changes to certain things beyond control of the artist and artist's management. The Gershwin example is one, deciding which song to promote over others on NPP is another, and there are more. While there are some fully autonomous artist deals with labels where they can call all the shots, those are still few and far between and there are still people at these labels who will reject mix after mix until it "sounds like a hit" to their sometimes warped ears. That's how it is and how it has been unless the artist has a full-control contract that includes post-production which no label guy in a suit can veto.

The forcing Brian to tour issue is and has been absurd, and it's ridiculous. Those people still saying that bullshit, maybe they could offer some proof to back up what they say or STFU. I'd rather debate a flat-Earther than tackle this anymore. It's funny how they're the same age, but none of these people seem to want or suggest the same "he's almost 80, time to retire" from Mike Love that they do Brian, regarding both touring and recording. I guess with lyrics like "kinda like a viral Super Bowl", that's the opposite of "delusional" fans talking about a hypothetical fantasy solo piano/vocal album from Brian? Who knows.  LOL

 


rab2591, iirc - and this is really just from memory, so you may want to search the forum's older posts - Brian always intended Sloop John B. to be on Pet Sounds. There was a list or something of the album's tracks written by Brian before the single was a hit and he included the song.

The Gershwin album was mixed by Brian (and probably Scott Bennett ?) but Capitol hired Al Schmitt (who is more than "someone else") to remix it. According to people in the know, the final product didn't differ very much from Brian's earlier mix.

Addressing the comments in bold, just to correct a few things: Capitol had nothing to do with the album. The Disney label wanted Brian to record the classic Disney tunes which became the Disney album, but the Gershwin album was part of the same package deal to make it all happen. When the Gershwin album was completed and the mix played for the Disney label, they were very happy with it. But the head of the label made the call to contract Al Schmitt to remix the whole thing. Debate that decision among fans, but there was a final mix (which involved Brian's band) presented that was well received, and the decision to bring in Al Schmitt after the fact was made by Disney. Don't get me wrong, it's a great album, among Brian's best work and one which he was 110% involved with and committed to doing great work (again, don't believe anyone who may have suggested otherwise), but having a more "organic" and in-house production and mix as first existed might be a more exciting prospect to hear for a lot of fans.

Without knowing who the "people in the know" are or were that you heard or read that from, I can say that someone who actually took part in mixing the album before Al Schmitt's remix had a different take on the whole thing than what you suggested, but again I'll defer to the phrase we'll leave it at that. And the story of the Gershwin album mix and remix was told to me in person by one of those who actually worked on that first mix that got replaced. If it wasn't that different between the two, the opinions I heard expressed probably would not have been stated as they were. Again, we'll have to leave it at that. At the end of the day it's a terrific album, but there is the lingering "what could have been" element once you see the whole story. And there is even more to it than that.
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"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
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« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2020, 11:55:24 AM »

Oh! Thatís right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - thereís a reflection and GASP! thereís Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

Whatís the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? Itís a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brianís touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude canít even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all ďoH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!Ē Iíd hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us ďfansĒ, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isnít making albums anymore because he doesnít want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment Iím just glad weíre treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear youíre living life to the fullest!

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.

Oh absolutely that happens. Heck, the Gershwin album had a phenomenal mix done by Darien (and I think someone else) and due to politics they opted for someone else to mix the dang album and it didn't sound as good. Politics happen when it comes to album releases - heck, apparently Sloop John B wasn't intended for Pet Sounds and Capitol lobbied for it to be on the album (or something like that) - album politics relating to major labels happen to EVERY artist. Point being, yeah, Brian records things that most people don't see the light of day of (which are awesome)...but this isn't anything unusual to Brian Wilson, or music artists in general.

But my point is about Brian being forced to tour. Again, take a look at the Jeff Beck sessions: Brian refused to participate because it was a project he wanted zip to do with -he just sat there annoyed that someone set the project up. So, if Brian didn't want to tour, Brian would sit in his lay-z-boy recliner and refuse to leave the house. But yet here we are, the 387th thread that Lonely Summer has to interject the SOS BRIAN IS BEING FORCED TO TOUR PLS HELP...and yet Brian happily sings the songs he wrote to happy audiences.

Again, the hilarious irony that someone like Lonely Summer is pissed off that Brian is being "forced" to tour, yet given his tirades it sounds like he himself would force Brian to stay home for his well being if he were "in charge" of the guy. Fortunately, in this thing called reality, Brian is in charge of himself.

That is true - There are cases like the Gershwin album where record companies stepped in and made changes to certain things beyond control of the artist and artist's management. The Gershwin example is one, deciding which song to promote over others on NPP is another, and there are more. While there are some fully autonomous artist deals with labels where they can call all the shots, those are still few and far between and there are still people at these labels who will reject mix after mix until it "sounds like a hit" to their sometimes warped ears. That's how it is and how it has been unless the artist has a full-control contract that includes post-production which no label guy in a suit can veto.

The forcing Brian to tour issue is and has been absurd, and it's ridiculous. Those people still saying that bullshit, maybe they could offer some proof to back up what they say or STFU. I'd rather debate a flat-Earther than tackle this anymore. It's funny how they're the same age, but none of these people seem to want or suggest the same "he's almost 80, time to retire" from Mike Love that they do Brian, regarding both touring and recording. I guess with lyrics like "kinda like a viral Super Bowl", that's the opposite of "delusional" fans talking about a hypothetical fantasy solo piano/vocal album from Brian? Who knows.  LOL

 


rab2591, iirc - and this is really just from memory, so you may want to search the forum's older posts - Brian always intended Sloop John B. to be on Pet Sounds. There was a list or something of the album's tracks written by Brian before the single was a hit and he included the song.

The Gershwin album was mixed by Brian (and probably Scott Bennett ?) but Capitol hired Al Schmitt (who is more than "someone else") to remix it. According to people in the know, the final product didn't differ very much from Brian's earlier mix.

Addressing the comments in bold, just to correct a few things: Capitol had nothing to do with the album. The Disney label wanted Brian to record the classic Disney tunes which became the Disney album, but the Gershwin album was part of the same package deal to make it all happen. When the Gershwin album was completed and the mix played for the Disney label, they were very happy with it. But the head of the label made the call to contract Al Schmitt to remix the whole thing. Debate that decision among fans, but there was a final mix (which involved Brian's band) presented that was well received, and the decision to bring in Al Schmitt after the fact was made by Disney. Don't get me wrong, it's a great album, among Brian's best work and one which he was 110% involved with and committed to doing great work (again, don't believe anyone who may have suggested otherwise), but having a more "organic" and in-house production and mix as first existed might be a more exciting prospect to hear for a lot of fans.

Without knowing who the "people in the know" are or were that you heard or read that from, I can say that someone who actually took part in mixing the album before Al Schmitt's remix had a different take on the whole thing than what you suggested, but again I'll defer to the phrase we'll leave it at that. And the story of the Gershwin album mix and remix was told to me in person by one of those who actually worked on that first mix that got replaced. If it wasn't that different between the two, the opinions I heard expressed probably would not have been stated as they were. Again, we'll have to leave it at that. At the end of the day it's a terrific album, but there is the lingering "what could have been" element once you see the whole story. And there is even more to it than that.
A better example would be the fact that GV was added to Smiley Smile after Brian said no.
However, I think you guys are going a little bit overboard with this stuff. The Label released Pet Sounds with a recent, extremely successful single. Thatís what the majority of record labels do. Brian was smart enough to know this. Thatís why there hasnít been any articles or anything about huge disputes over that song. Maybe, at one point, he had second thoughts about it being on the album. However, whenever he tours the album today, he plays that song right at its position.
And, lets not forget that Capital was ready and willing to release Smile whenever the BBs turned it in. They even made half a  million covers for the album, before they had even heard a note of it.
SS, WH and Friends were all very Brian albums that Capital released.
And letís not forget that this isnít just a Brian V Labels issue. Sunflower, which was a very democratic album, had to be turned in three times to two different record labels before one of them released it.
The reason Adult Child was rejected was because the BBs had just signed a new Record contract behind WBs back, and Love You wasnít very successful financially, so they wanted to make a little money before the BBs left. And I love Adult Child, but it is not a hit record. It would have made the record label very little money.

Regarding Brianís late 70s and early 80s recordings, need we not forget that California Feeliní was literally not only be on LA, but was also originally going to be the title track. But Brian did not want it out there, so the rest of the band pulled the song.
Brian was involved with early KTSA sessions, but backed away quickly, but he still got several songs on the album.
The reason the mid 90s material wasnít released at the time was mainly due to Carl being hesitant, so they recorded the Stars and Stripes album, with intentions to return to the mid 90s material at a later date. However, Carl died in 1998, and Brian left the BBs, basically considering them finished.
While there are a couple examples of labels and other band members rejecting some of Brians work, most of the time it was Brianís Final decision.
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« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2020, 01:17:32 PM »

Quote
However, I think you guys are going a little bit overboard with this stuff.
as you proceed to write a spanning history of Brianís interaction with band-members and labels during Brianís career lol.

Weíre literally just discussing one possible example (and two definite) of a record label interfering with the creative process in Brianís career (to counter the point that only Melinda manages Brianís creative output - *edit: before that sentence inevitably gets blown out of proportion, not saying anyone in this thread made this accusation, just that Iíve seen this theory out there all over this forum for years). No one is going overboard in this discussion.
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« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2020, 02:54:34 PM »

Rab, I control BW according to ďrespected historianĒ AGD. Wink
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And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2020, 02:57:12 PM »

Quote
However, I think you guys are going a little bit overboard with this stuff.
as you proceed to write a spanning history of Brianís interaction with band-members and labels during Brianís career lol.

Weíre literally just discussing one possible example (and two definite) of a record label interfering with the creative process in Brianís career (to counter the point that only Melinda manages Brianís creative output - *edit: before that sentence inevitably gets blown out of proportion, not saying anyone in this thread made this accusation, just that Iíve seen this theory out there all over this forum for years). No one is going overboard in this discussion.
Yes, but you guys are making it sound like the label wasnít doing their job. Their job is to make money, and if they didnít think the product would make money, they arenít going to release the product. Itís simple. If the label interfered with the creative process in ways that Brian didnít want them too, then he and his management company should have:
A: made sure to sign a contract where Brian got 100% creative control.
B: if the contract did give Brian Full creative control, and the label was overstepping their boundaries, then take the label to court for breach of contract.
Or C: go completely independent, giving him full creative control, and the ability to release product whenever he deems necessary.
Also, Brian and his team arenít stupid.
If Brian had product that he wanted to release, and his label wasnít letting him, and it really bothered him, I feel like we would have known about it. But clearly it doesnít bother him that much
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« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2020, 03:55:29 PM »

Quote
However, I think you guys are going a little bit overboard with this stuff.
as you proceed to write a spanning history of Brianís interaction with band-members and labels during Brianís career lol.

Weíre literally just discussing one possible example (and two definite) of a record label interfering with the creative process in Brianís career (to counter the point that only Melinda manages Brianís creative output - *edit: before that sentence inevitably gets blown out of proportion, not saying anyone in this thread made this accusation, just that Iíve seen this theory out there all over this forum for years). No one is going overboard in this discussion.
Yes, but you guys are making it sound like the label wasnít doing their job. Their job is to make money, and if they didnít think the product would make money, they arenít going to release the product. Itís simple. If the label interfered with the creative process in ways that Brian didnít want them too, then he and his management company should have:
A: made sure to sign a contract where Brian got 100% creative control.
B: if the contract did give Brian Full creative control, and the label was overstepping their boundaries, then take the label to court for breach of contract.
Or C: go completely independent, giving him full creative control, and the ability to release product whenever he deems necessary.
Also, Brian and his team arenít stupid.
If Brian had product that he wanted to release, and his label wasnít letting him, and it really bothered him, I feel like we would have known about it. But clearly it doesnít bother him that much

Where did I make it sound like the label wasnít doing their job? I havenít even remotely come close to saying anything negative about what the label was doing. Of course their out to make money! I donít blame them whatsoever. Just like I donít blame anyone in Brianís current management who may say that releasing sun-California related tunes is a money-maker over lyrics Brian comes up with on his own. Iím not taking sides when it comes to the record label. Merely pointing out that Melinda isnít the only person who possibly has sway over what Brian releases. And merely pointing out that politics in the label boardroom have impacted nearly every album ever released.

Youíre absolutely right, Brian isnít bothered much about it...heís known this game since he was in his early 20s. Which I why Iím confused why fans get flustered about what Brian currently releases. The guy never cared about surfing, yet he wrote surfing songs because they would go number 1. He wasnít a car freak, yet he wrote songs about cars because he wanted it to go number one. He wrote songs with the guy from Capitol Cities For NPP because he stated his goal is getting another number one (and he thought that would do it). But some people are too dense to realize this.

I think weíre mostly in agreement about things Faraway Place, I didnít mean to imply that Brianís team was stupid. On the contrary, the guy has been on many popular releases in the last 5 years, has had a major motion picture made about him, and has successfully toured to happy fans. They know what theyíre doing, and Brian is happy to be at the helm.
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« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2020, 04:48:14 PM »

Quote
However, I think you guys are going a little bit overboard with this stuff.
as you proceed to write a spanning history of Brianís interaction with band-members and labels during Brianís career lol.

Weíre literally just discussing one possible example (and two definite) of a record label interfering with the creative process in Brianís career (to counter the point that only Melinda manages Brianís creative output - *edit: before that sentence inevitably gets blown out of proportion, not saying anyone in this thread made this accusation, just that Iíve seen this theory out there all over this forum for years). No one is going overboard in this discussion.
Yes, but you guys are making it sound like the label wasnít doing their job. Their job is to make money, and if they didnít think the product would make money, they arenít going to release the product. Itís simple. If the label interfered with the creative process in ways that Brian didnít want them too, then he and his management company should have:
A: made sure to sign a contract where Brian got 100% creative control.
B: if the contract did give Brian Full creative control, and the label was overstepping their boundaries, then take the label to court for breach of contract.
Or C: go completely independent, giving him full creative control, and the ability to release product whenever he deems necessary.
Also, Brian and his team arenít stupid.
If Brian had product that he wanted to release, and his label wasnít letting him, and it really bothered him, I feel like we would have known about it. But clearly it doesnít bother him that much

Where did I make it sound like the label wasnít doing their job? I havenít even remotely come close to saying anything negative about what the label was doing. Of course their out to make money! I donít blame them whatsoever. Just like I donít blame anyone in Brianís current management who may say that releasing sun-California related tunes is a money-maker over lyrics Brian comes up with on his own. Iím not taking sides when it comes to the record label. Merely pointing out that Melinda isnít the only person who possibly has sway over what Brian releases. And merely pointing out that politics in the label boardroom have impacted nearly every album ever released.

Youíre absolutely right, Brian isnít bothered much about it...heís known this game since he was in his early 20s. Which I why Iím confused why fans get flustered about what Brian currently releases. The guy never cared about surfing, yet he wrote surfing songs because they would go number 1. He wasnít a car freak, yet he wrote songs about cars because he wanted it to go number one. He wrote songs with the guy from Capitol Cities For NPP because he stated his goal is getting another number one (and he thought that would do it). But some people are too dense to realize this.

I think weíre mostly in agreement about things Faraway Place, I didnít mean to imply that Brianís team was stupid. On the contrary, the guy has been on many popular releases in the last 5 years, has had a major motion picture made about him, and has successfully toured to happy fans. They know what theyíre doing, and Brian is happy to be at the helm.
Also, letís not forget that Brian has said over and over and over again that he hates writing lyrics, he doesnít think of himself as a very good lyricist, and he cares way more about the actual arrangements.
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« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2020, 06:53:35 PM »

Rab, I control BW according to ďrespected historianĒ AGD. Wink

LOL

Oh my goodness you can't even make this garbage up LOL
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« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2020, 06:56:14 PM »

Also, letís not forget that Brian has said over and over and over again that he hates writing lyrics, he doesnít think of himself as a very good lyricist, and he cares way more about the actual arrangements.

Agreed. I actually like a lot of Brian's lyrics, but he definitely works much better with collaborators. Apologies for getting so testy earlier, I've developed a rather irritating habit of responding with angst on this forum, something I need to work on.

Cheers, Faraway Place!
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« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2020, 07:47:40 AM »

God, I love it when you guys get worked up
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rab2591
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« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2020, 08:15:49 AM »

Same.
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