The Smiley Smile Message Board

Okay, watching Brian on Colbert, and singing Happy Birthday to Nancy Sinatra, and noticing the comments in the threads, I just wanted to start this thread in case we could get any kind of traction with this thing.

I want a new Brian album, stripped down, live in the studio, no overdubs, no autotune, no bass harmonicas, minimal instrumentation. Maybe brush drums or a stand up bass player. Maybe an acoustic guitar. Not an electro-acoustic guitar, but just an actual mic'd up acoustic guitar. A couple of backing vocalists.

There is so much more heart and soul and personality from the real life Brian in these videos than the photoshopped, autotuned, glossy Brian we keep getting from his solo albums.

I want a Brian who hesitates at the piano, who misses the beat by a fraction, who almost forgets the words, who can magically out of FREAKING NOWHERE sound like his 20 year old self at almost 80 years old.

Get Van Dyke to back him on a couple of tunes on accordion. Maybe make it a sequel to Orange Crate Art if you want, but a full collaboration in the songwriting department.

Who's with me?

It doesn’t do anything for me TBH. These clips are nice little treats but mainly for the novelty of seeing a guy almost 80 doing relatively well all things considered.

I notice he has a Pet Sounds award or disc just sitting on the floor behind him. If he wants to do a little YouTube solo..really solo, full ‘Pet Sounds’ like he did the other day with GOK, just for his fans, I wouldn’t complain though. Just if the mood takes him.

I’d like him to retire, relax and enjoy the rest of his life.

If it's something he'd like to do--- a home recorded album like Smiley, Friends, Wild Honey ---   that would be amazing.

I wouldn't be opposed to electric instruments. I'd be cool with as many or as little instruments as he'd want. Could be bare voice/piano. Or a whole little group thing, like the albums mentioned above, or even those home studio recorded holiday stuff he's done over the years. That vibe.

While I'm a fan of overproduction in general, the idea of BW playing whatever he wants at home, with musicians like Al and others contributing any needed instruments or voices- either at Bri's place, or in their own home studio for safety reasons (like Mike's single)

Honestly, Totten could probably handle the project beautifully. His productions showcase Mike's natural voice, for the most part, and I feel he'd do the same for Brian. They'd make a wonderful team. Too bad politics, or any of that stuff would/could get in the way....

It'd be cool to have Bri play his favorites... BB stuff like Salt Lake City, Shortenin Bread, Night Was So Young... other artists' stuff like Be My Baby & other Spector, Let It Be & other Beatles, Four Freshman,Row Your Boat, Gershwin,  Rock N Roll Oldies, whatever....

If it's something he didn't want/or have the energy to do, I wouldn't press him, but if he was inclined to do it, I think a project like that would be wonderful

I personally would love an entire album of  nothing but Brian and the piano. As I said in the other thread, I’ve been wanting this for years, and seeing this clips feels like some sort of vindication. The main thing for me is that Brian doesn’t just sound good, it sounds like he’s having fun. You can go all the way back to the Rolling Stone thing.

For those who have doubted him....THIS is the real Brian Wilson.

HOLD MY NOSE

Brian Wilson Sings Mike Love’s Solo Songs And Leads. With special guest Al Jardine!

Teaser : https://youtu.be/5QGlQCnGpuU

I don't think the "Brian and just a piano" approach would work for a studio production. But "Brian and very sparse home recording instrumentation"? Yes, please, that sounds great. He's an incredible arranger, even on albums like Wild Honey, which sounds like there's not much going on other than piano, bass, organ and drums, but the little details here and there make all the difference.

Yeah, I agree that a solo piano album at this point probably wouldn't work, and I don't know if Brian would even want to do that; after all his arrangements are many times such a big part of the song itself. Now, I love the recordings of Brian at the piano that we have. I just think (and maybe I'm wrong) that the energy in his playing is mostly gone, due to his age. But a collection of Brian's demos through the years would be great.

Not veering too far away from the simplicity and intimacy of a solo piano and vocal project...what would be most welcome and long overdue would be to have Brian play some Hammond B3 organ on such a project too. Something like this doesn't need extra musicians, it doesn't need a lot of cooks in the kitchen either. But how great would it be to hear Brian again playing Hammond organ along with piano?

It's those little moments and little turns of a vocal phrase that makes this guy special, as I said in the Happy Birthday Nancy discussion. That moment just at the end of the song where he turns two syllables into four, and he sounds like he's 23 again. He pulls this kind of thing seemingly out of a hat, and people who know his work can spot them right away. In terms of producing records, every truly great record has that moment of surprise and pure joy, it's the great undefinable X-Factor in making music that some just seem to have more access to than others. Those are the greats, Brian is one of them. If he can do this in the last notes of Happy Birthday, is any more proof necessary?

So here is another example just for comparison: C50 tour, September 27, 2012 at Royal Albert Hall, in that batch of final C50 performances weeks after the dust-up hit the press. Some who were there say Brian brought his A-Game to this show, and was throwing his fastballs that night. Was he sending a message? Topic for debate. But this was Brian doing "Please Let Me Wonder" at that show, stay tuned to the very end of the song. Brian leans back and hits a falsetto note that speaks for itself. Still one of my favorite musical moments in all the BB's catalog fortunately captured on video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsB3s9xDzRI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsB3s9xDzRI)


Those moments are what should be captured on a recording project. Just pure, unfiltered, and surprising magic moments that make a great song or performance even better. Seriously, the way he can do it with just piano and vocal, you don't need anything else. Get him in the studio with a piano and microphone and start rolling tape. And again, if there are doubts that such a thing would "work", look no further than Johnny Cash's last recordings. People are still buying and playing them.

Thanks for sharing that awesome PLMW clip, GF. That end bit was really brilliant. It left me breathless for a moment.

That PLMW clip is fantastic! What a joy to see him so energetic and with it!

I've gotta say I think you guys are somewhat delusional. There is no way Brian is going to do anything. I think one of the reasons he may be happy, if indeed he is happy is because he doesn't have to tour and he can stay home and watch TV.  Brian is old and I'm sure very tired. I'm 65 and I'm exhausted sometimes. I can only guess what it's like to be closing in on 80.

Agreed. While it would be cool to get a stripped back Brian and a Piano album, similar to that Prince Piano & a Microphone 1983 album a couple years ago, it’s extremely unlikely.
Personally, I’m hoping that in a couple years, we get all of the Love You and Adult Child piano demos officially released

Nobody is saying anything about touring. I take offense about being called delusional. Unless your  name happens to be Brian Wilson, you can’t get inside his head and saying “this is what he is or isn’t going to do “. That’s not what this thread is even about; it’s what we would like him to do if he wanted to do something.

You still have time to change that all around. I'm 7 1/2 years older than you and while I can't do what I used to do, I'm doing my best to not be exhausted and work out three or four days a week, take care of 2 acres and have a part time job. I wish I were 65 again! Brian is 5 years older than I am and I'm amazed that he can do what he does. He's an inspiration, indeed!

Age is nothing but a number. I’m going to be 42 in a few months , have had two strokes and that has resulted in health issues making it likely I won’t see 80.  I could sit around feeling sorry for myself or I could do what I’m doing and enjoy the f*** out of life. I don’t know Brian’s current health situation but the days of him sitting around feeling sorry for himself are many years behind him, and I think he’s choosing the latter option as well ; he knows he’s gonna be 80 soon and it seems like that has lit a fire under him.

I don’t know...I could be wrong but I suspect that’s not the case.

No doubt you can source a drop of inspiration (in purely that regard at least) from all our beloved Beach Boys then, even Michael E. Love?

Amen.
Brian did his work when he was a young man. The remainder of his career has been spent celebrating those accomplishments.
He's earned his retirement. Covid 19 may have brought that on a little sooner than we all expected, but I will be very disappointed if the Powers That Be resume the Never Ending Greatest Hits Tour next year.

Oh! That’s right guys, the Powers That Be completely control Brian. Do you guys really think that Brian himself wanted to wish Nancy Sinatra a happy birthday? Look closely at the framed Pet Sounds award in the background of that video - there’s a reflection and GASP! there’s Melinda holding a baseball bat making sure that Brian goes through with the video.

What’s the tin-foil hat theory? Brian is forced to tour at gunpoint because Melinda desperately needs the money? It’s a shame COVID-19 happened because apparently Brian’s touring brought in copious amounts of money for the Wilson household...No doubt Brian and Melinda will be out panhandling within weeks due to this financial loss!

Talk about delusional.

As for an album, if the dude can’t even sit in front of a piano for an hour and a half a couple nights a week without a few sensitive people getting all “oH mY GoOdnezz gUys HE iS BEiNg cOnTrOlLeD!!!!!” I’d hate to see the reaction from these people when Brian spends a few hours in a studio a week recording an album for his fans...granted, the last time he made an album for us “fans”, half the fans had mental breakdowns at the slightest sound of vocal pitch correction...perhaps Brian isn’t making albums anymore because he doesn’t want people feeling so negative.

Personally I would love to hear a solo piano album if Brian is up to it. At the moment I’m just glad we’re treated with these little snippets of happiness from Brian in such a negative time.

Also, OSD, glad to hear you’re living life to the fullest!

I still don’t get the big deal about a tiny bit of pitch correction.
Sure, Mike Love lathering his voice in layers and layers of it, making him sound barely human, just to record another version of Fun Fun Fun is just the worst. But Brian’s last album had new material, most of it very good. And his voice clearly isn’t what it was in 1965. So, if he’s using technology to help him out, I really don’t see the big deal. It’s a studio effect, it can be used fantastic, and it can be used super poorly, much like any other studio affect.
In the 60s, when new Studio techniques became available, these guys use them. They use multi tracking. They used speeding up and slowing down. They used the cut and splice techniques. They used reverb.
And trust me, if pitch corrector existed in the 60s, they would have used it to.

We need to stop this stupid idea that all modern studio technology is bad, and everything was better before. Because the truth is, it wasn’t. Sure, there are a lot of modern production techniques that can be taken way too far. But lets stop getting mad when we notice that Pitch corrector, or some other ProTools plug-in is being used, and realize that it’s 2020. Of course they’re going to use what’s available nowadays. and in 2020, much like everything else, music production is Digital, and mostly done on computers. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that

I would love to elaborate, without today's technology, we would probably still be listening to records in mono, or having instruments panned onto one side and the other ala the Beatles! I think modern music technology just leads to more flexibility for the producer and musicians involved. I think about old piano recordings from Laura Nyro or Todd Rundgren, and the fidelity just can't compare to something even from the 80's or with American Spring. With old recordings, you get a lot of noise and compression due to bouncing from tape to vinyl/analog media. Digital music production has come a long way, and I firmly believe that the technology itself is not at fault for a lot of the overproduction that plagues many records today. To me, I specifically blame whoever mixes and masters the music, as it is typically mastered as loudly as possible in order to compare to specific frequencies of other contemporary songs.

I don't want to open that can of worms, but to me, to say that modern microphones or technology like Protools is to blame for some mediocre shlock of a production, I also think about some of Brian's better modern efforts like Lucky Old Sun, Gershwin, and Smile as examples of well-engineered works. The fidelity just doesn't compare!

As for auto-tune/pitch correction, etc. I also see double-tracking vocals as a form of pitch correction, so let's not put the blame on newer tech for that, when clearly, it was pioneered by the  :bw himself!

Exactly!

All of Brian's albums have tastefully used effects to their advantage. Sure, I may not care for some songs he's done, but its never because of the vocal production. I'm glad other people see this perspective.

100% disagree

This is a common argument I hear, but the fact remains - they didn't have it, and the records sound the way they do partially as a result of not having these things. Which lends credence to the argument that the old ways were better.

Not arguing in favor of any particular theory, but IMO some of the history of Brian and the group since the later '70s seems to suggest that when Brian makes the kind of music he wants to make, it's not released. Adult Child is the earliest example, then we have all of the stuff that he cut in the late '70s-early '80s, none of it included on any of the contemporary BB releases. Both the '88 and '98 solo albums have a lot of collaborators and outside influences in the mix.

The Paley sessions by all accounts seem to be what everyone is refferring to - Brian simply making the music he wanted to make, when he wanted to make it. And those tracks sound more like what I would expect of BW. Very odd to me that songs like "It's Not Easy Being Me" (bar far my fave BW recording/song since ... oh "Stevie" - another example), "I'm Broke", and "Marketplace" are unreleased ... yet we have the Stars & Stripes, the 1995 soundtrack, and Gettin In Over My Head LPs coming out.

This is not blaming "handlers" or even the Beach Boys, but there is a common theme of someone, somewhere, somehow always thwarting these natural-sounding recordings in the interest the perceived commerciality of the eras.

The tools are definitely to blame IMO. Necessity is the mother of invention ... fewer options equal more creativity (Brian plucking piano strings for the intro of "You Still Believe In Me" vs. finding a patch on a digital keyboard, etc.)

Just wanted to throw my two cents in... as an EDM artist I’m the last person to besmirch the use of the latest tech! All I was saying is that I’d personally like an album featuring a stripped down Brian and the piano type album

Oh absolutely that happens. Politics happen when it comes to album releases - heck, apparently Sloop John B wasn't intended for Pet Sounds and Capitol lobbied for it to be on the album (or something like that) - album politics relating to major labels happen to EVERY artist...the Reverberation/Feel Flows thread proves that labels have huge influence over what an artist releases - it doesn't mean that Melinda is maniacally pulling strings. Point being, yeah, Brian records things that most people don't see the light of day of (which are awesome)...but this isn't anything unusual to Brian Wilson, or music artists in general.

But my point is about Brian being forced to tour. Again, take a look at the Jeff Beck sessions: Brian refused to participate because it was a project he wanted zip to do with -he just sat there annoyed that someone set the project up. So, if Brian didn't want to tour, Brian would sit in his lay-z-boy recliner and refuse to leave the house. But yet here we are, the 387th thread that Lonely Summer has to interject the SOS BRIAN IS BEING FORCED TO TOUR PLS HELP...and yet Brian happily sings the songs he wrote to happy audiences.

Again, the hilarious irony that someone like Lonely Summer is pissed off that Brian is being "forced" to tour, yet given his tirades it sounds like he himself would force Brian to stay home for his well being if he were "in charge" of the guy. Fortunately, in this thing called reality, Brian is in charge of himself.

That is true - There are cases like the Gershwin album where record companies stepped in and made changes to certain things beyond control of the artist and artist's management. The Gershwin example is one, deciding which song to promote over others on NPP is another, and there are more. While there are some fully autonomous artist deals with labels where they can call all the shots, those are still few and far between and there are still people at these labels who will reject mix after mix until it "sounds like a hit" to their sometimes warped ears. That's how it is and how it has been unless the artist has a full-control contract that includes post-production which no label guy in a suit can veto.

The forcing Brian to tour issue is and has been absurd, and it's ridiculous. Those people still saying that bullshit, maybe they could offer some proof to back up what they say or STFU. I'd rather debate a flat-Earther than tackle this anymore. It's funny how they're the same age, but none of these people seem to want or suggest the same "he's almost 80, time to retire" from Mike Love that they do Brian, regarding both touring and recording. I guess with lyrics like "kinda like a viral Super Bowl", that's the opposite of "delusional" fans talking about a hypothetical fantasy solo piano/vocal album from Brian? Who knows.  :lol

 

Regarding the points about technology and mastering (which someone mentioned previously), there is *no doubt* in my mind that both mixing and mastering techniques changed drastically since roughly 2000. There have been entire articles published about the mastering on the album "Californication" by RHCP, and how the mastering was insanely loud and boosted to the nth degree, which was shocking at the time, but which caught on industry-wide and is now the standard. I have certain albums on the original vinyl from the 50's...and also on CD remasters from the 80's...and again on yet another remaster CD from after 2000. I cannot listen to the one after 2000. It's mastered so loud that certain parts literally peak out and distort. The whole texture is different, the entire soundscape sounds different, and the boosting detracts from the music. This was music recorded live in a room, not overdubbed or stacked or given wild mixes originally. It is really quite a difference even from the earlier CD reissues I have.

Consider why the industry does this. When one hit album breaks the mold, they all follow. When one genre starts boosting bass to ridiculous levels, other genres assume listeners across all styles will be accustomed to hearing that and they all do it. They also don't want someone's "playlist" containing 30 current hits to have one of those hits sound unlike the others, so they all boost and boost.

Any accident that so many people listening with "Beats" headphones and waterproof Bluetooth speaker canisters are hearing bass and other frequency boosts that the artist never intended? Any accident that car audio systems boost and thump based on the demographic they think is buying the cars? Any accident they create mixes to be heard through ear buds and Bluetooth headsets instead of actual speakers? Or, even worse, a tiny little speaker port on a smartphone?

The whole game changed. I blame the radical shift in the delivery systems of music in the digital age as much as I do the mixing and recording technology available, if the issue is the quality or lack thereof of the overall sound. When you have songs mastered so hot that they are literally designed to clip and distort in the bass so that the demographic they're targeting listing on ear buds and smartphone speakers can "feel the bass", and that is the stuff getting zillions of streams and downloads, what necessity is there for the industry to return to more natural sounding products? And a lot of times, it is out of the artists' hands entirely.

rab2591, iirc - and this is really just from memory, so you may want to search the forum's older posts - Brian always intended Sloop John B. to be on Pet Sounds. There was a list or something of the album's tracks written by Brian before the single was a hit and he included the song.

The Gershwin album was mixed by Brian (and probably Scott Bennett ?) but Capitol hired Al Schmitt (who is more than "someone else") to remix it. According to people in the know, the final product didn't differ very much from Brian's earlier mix.

Rocker, thanks for the reply. I have heard mixed things about Sloop John B inclusion, I have heard both sides of the debate but wasn’t sure what exactly the final verdict was.

As for Gershwin, I’ve heard different, but I’ll leave it at that. Also, I didn’t mean to imply Al Schmitt was just “someone else”, whoever was involved wasn’t really my point - the fact that there was a mix that sounded perfect and was re-done for politics sake was my point.

First of all, I’m talking about music released in 2020, not remasters of old music. When it comes to remasters of old music, it can be done great, like the 2017 wild honey, or horriblly, like the MIC mix of Sail Plane Song.
When it comes to new music though, if Brian drizzles a little Pitch corrector on his vocals, as long as it’s not so much that he sounds like a robot, bhen I don’t see the problem.
Also, if you want an example of an album that was mixed, mastered and even recorded way too loud, look up an album called Be Here Now by Oasis.
As for the loudness wars, there have always been terribly mixed and mastered albums.
I love Pet Sounds, but the original absolutely authentic 1966 vinyl sounds like muddled garbage

Addressing the comments in bold, just to correct a few things: Capitol had nothing to do with the album. The Disney label wanted Brian to record the classic Disney tunes which became the Disney album, but the Gershwin album was part of the same package deal to make it all happen. When the Gershwin album was completed and the mix played for the Disney label, they were very happy with it. But the head of the label made the call to contract Al Schmitt to remix the whole thing. Debate that decision among fans, but there was a final mix (which involved Brian's band) presented that was well received, and the decision to bring in Al Schmitt after the fact was made by Disney. Don't get me wrong, it's a great album, among Brian's best work and one which he was 110% involved with and committed to doing great work (again, don't believe anyone who may have suggested otherwise), but having a more "organic" and in-house production and mix as first existed might be a more exciting prospect to hear for a lot of fans.

Without knowing who the "people in the know" are or were that you heard or read that from, I can say that someone who actually took part in mixing the album before Al Schmitt's remix had a different take on the whole thing than what you suggested, but again I'll defer to the phrase we'll leave it at that. And the story of the Gershwin album mix and remix was told to me in person by one of those who actually worked on that first mix that got replaced. If it wasn't that different between the two, the opinions I heard expressed probably would not have been stated as they were. Again, we'll have to leave it at that. At the end of the day it's a terrific album, but there is the lingering "what could have been" element once you see the whole story. And there is even more to it than that.

A better example would be the fact that GV was added to Smiley Smile after Brian said no.
However, I think you guys are going a little bit overboard with this stuff. The Label released Pet Sounds with a recent, extremely successful single. That’s what the majority of record labels do. Brian was smart enough to know this. That’s why there hasn’t been any articles or anything about huge disputes over that song. Maybe, at one point, he had second thoughts about it being on the album. However, whenever he tours the album today, he plays that song right at its position.
And, lets not forget that Capital was ready and willing to release Smile whenever the BBs turned it in. They even made half a  million covers for the album, before they had even heard a note of it.
SS, WH and Friends were all very Brian albums that Capital released.
And let’s not forget that this isn’t just a Brian V Labels issue. Sunflower, which was a very democratic album, had to be turned in three times to two different record labels before one of them released it.
The reason Adult Child was rejected was because the BBs had just signed a new Record contract behind WBs back, and Love You wasn’t very successful financially, so they wanted to make a little money before the BBs left. And I love Adult Child, but it is not a hit record. It would have made the record label very little money.

Regarding Brian’s late 70s and early 80s recordings, need we not forget that California Feelin’ was literally not only be on LA, but was also originally going to be the title track. But Brian did not want it out there, so the rest of the band pulled the song.
Brian was involved with early KTSA sessions, but backed away quickly, but he still got several songs on the album.
The reason the mid 90s material wasn’t released at the time was mainly due to Carl being hesitant, so they recorded the Stars and Stripes album, with intentions to return to the mid 90s material at a later date. However, Carl died in 1998, and Brian left the BBs, basically considering them finished.
While there are a couple examples of labels and other band members rejecting some of Brians work, most of the time it was Brian’s Final decision.

as you proceed to write a spanning history of Brian’s interaction with band-members and labels during Brian’s career lol.

We’re literally just discussing one possible example (and two definite) of a record label interfering with the creative process in Brian’s career (to counter the point that only Melinda manages Brian’s creative output - *edit: before that sentence inevitably gets blown out of proportion, not saying anyone in this thread made this accusation, just that I’ve seen this theory out there all over this forum for years). No one is going overboard in this discussion.

Rab, I control BW according to “respected historian” AGD. ;)

Yes, but you guys are making it sound like the label wasn’t doing their job. Their job is to make money, and if they didn’t think the product would make money, they aren’t going to release the product. It’s simple. If the label interfered with the creative process in ways that Brian didn’t want them too, then he and his management company should have:
A: made sure to sign a contract where Brian got 100% creative control.
B: if the contract did give Brian Full creative control, and the label was overstepping their boundaries, then take the label to court for breach of contract.
Or C: go completely independent, giving him full creative control, and the ability to release product whenever he deems necessary.
Also, Brian and his team aren’t stupid.
If Brian had product that he wanted to release, and his label wasn’t letting him, and it really bothered him, I feel like we would have known about it. But clearly it doesn’t bother him that much

Where did I make it sound like the label wasn’t doing their job? I haven’t even remotely come close to saying anything negative about what the label was doing. Of course their out to make money! I don’t blame them whatsoever. Just like I don’t blame anyone in Brian’s current management who may say that releasing sun-California related tunes is a money-maker over lyrics Brian comes up with on his own. I’m not taking sides when it comes to the record label. Merely pointing out that Melinda isn’t the only person who possibly has sway over what Brian releases. And merely pointing out that politics in the label boardroom have impacted nearly every album ever released.

You’re absolutely right, Brian isn’t bothered much about it...he’s known this game since he was in his early 20s. Which I why I’m confused why fans get flustered about what Brian currently releases. The guy never cared about surfing, yet he wrote surfing songs because they would go number 1. He wasn’t a car freak, yet he wrote songs about cars because he wanted it to go number one. He wrote songs with the guy from Capitol Cities For NPP because he stated his goal is getting another number one (and he thought that would do it). But some people are too dense to realize this.

I think we’re mostly in agreement about things Faraway Place, I didn’t mean to imply that Brian’s team was stupid. On the contrary, the guy has been on many popular releases in the last 5 years, has had a major motion picture made about him, and has successfully toured to happy fans. They know what they’re doing, and Brian is happy to be at the helm.

Also, let’s not forget that Brian has said over and over and over again that he hates writing lyrics, he doesn’t think of himself as a very good lyricist, and he cares way more about the actual arrangements.

:lol

Oh my goodness you can't even make this garbage up :lol

Agreed. I actually like a lot of Brian's lyrics, but he definitely works much better with collaborators. Apologies for getting so testy earlier, I've developed a rather irritating habit of responding with angst on this forum, something I need to work on.

Cheers, Faraway Place!

God, I love it when you guys get worked up

Same.