gfxgfx
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
logo
 
gfx gfx
gfx
680598 Posts in 27600 Topics by 4068 Members - Latest Member: Dae Lims March 28, 2024, 10:27:12 PM
*
gfx*HomeHelpSearchCalendarLoginRegistergfx
gfxgfx
0 Members and 17 Guests are viewing this topic.       « previous next »
Pages: 1 ... 102 103 104 105 106 [107] 108 109 110 111 112 ... 171 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 841780 times)
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #2650 on: December 02, 2020, 07:28:39 PM »

Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


The issue is that you can't send a signal to 4 speakers in this case.  Desper never did a mix with 4 discrete output signals.  His device is for two speakers.
Logged
Mitchell
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 802



View Profile
« Reply #2651 on: December 02, 2020, 07:33:12 PM »

Here's a relevant post I found:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,1203.msg3372.html#msg3372
Logged

Watch out for snakes!
HeyJude
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 10030



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2652 on: December 03, 2020, 07:56:06 AM »

I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 08:00:02 AM by HeyJude » Logged

THE BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE IS ON FACEBOOK!!! http://www.facebook.com/beachboysopinion - Check out the original "BEACH BOYS OPINION PAGE" Blog - http://beachboysopinion.blogspot.com/
WillJC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


View Profile
« Reply #2653 on: December 03, 2020, 08:19:31 AM »

.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2021, 03:59:23 AM by SaltyMarshmallow » Logged
Awesoman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1830


Disagreements? Work 'em out.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2654 on: December 03, 2020, 11:07:17 AM »

I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.


New stereo mixes would be welcome.  Even though that seems to be the latest method to repackage and re-release the same music.   
They recently remixed a bunch of John Lennon's solo material for a greatest hits compilation.  But with absolutely no disrespect meant towards Mr. Desper's work, I would be curious to hear how a remixed Sunflower would sound. 
Logged

And if you don't know where you're going
Any road will take you there
Awesoman
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 1830


Disagreements? Work 'em out.


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2655 on: December 03, 2020, 11:08:47 AM »

I find every corner of all the mix minutia interesting, but really, this thing of trying to decode a proprietary version of a long-defunct format that never took off in the first place, it's so beyond a niche within a niche within a niche within a niche. It's not likely (nor I'd argue particularly appropriate) for the type of release that "Feel Flows" is. There are folks here that still don't even understand what those encoded mixes are, or were ever intended to be, or how they were or could have been presented. I mean, at the point that we're trying to parse that emulating what the surround mix would have been intended to sound like by encoding a 4.0 surround mix onto a modern disc is *still not good enough*, and/or we would need to literally include some sort of proprietary decoding device, that's insane.

A fresh stereo remix of the two albums is really the thing that seems needed and appropriate for the set as far as a new presentation of the albums themselves (and really, the unreleased material is the star of the show on such sets). The next most likely thing we'd ever see down the road would be some sort of new Dolby Atmos surround mix similar to those made for recent Beatles sets.


New stereo mixes would be welcome.  Even though that seems to be the latest method to repackage and re-release the same music.  
They recently remixed a bunch of John Lennon's solo material for a greatest hits compilation.  But with absolutely no disrespect meant towards Mr. Desper's work, I would be curious to hear how a remixed Sunflower would sound.  
Logged

And if you don't know where you're going
Any road will take you there
thetojo
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 511



View Profile
« Reply #2656 on: December 03, 2020, 11:52:35 AM »

Okay, so I now understand - it's all about psychoacoustics.

Amazing noone's ever bootlegged the decode.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2020, 11:56:56 AM by thetojo » Logged
RONDEMON
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 480



View Profile
« Reply #2657 on: December 03, 2020, 12:05:56 PM »

I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.
Logged
urbanite
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 863


View Profile
« Reply #2658 on: December 03, 2020, 12:43:21 PM »

I like Sunflower but there's no song on the album that would have been a hit on am radio during that time.  There should have been a song on the album called Sunflower.
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5749



View Profile
« Reply #2659 on: December 03, 2020, 12:58:34 PM »

I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.

Interestingly, shortly thereafter on CATP, they went overboard in the opposite direction, with the comically too-loud drums on "Here She Comes"  LOL
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5749



View Profile
« Reply #2660 on: December 03, 2020, 12:59:58 PM »

I like Sunflower but there's no song on the album that would have been a hit on am radio during that time.  There should have been a song on the album called Sunflower.

Has the band ever stated the reason for the album's title? I guess the whole flower blooming imagery and it being an "album offering" was some sort of hippie code for "the band is cool to enjoy now", but I wonder if it was ever specifically discussed.
Logged
ForHerCryingSoul
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 344



View Profile WWW
« Reply #2661 on: December 03, 2020, 01:29:19 PM »

Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


The issue is that you can't send a signal to 4 speakers in this case.  Desper never did a mix with 4 discrete output signals.  His device is for two speakers.
So is this system like Prologic 2 where you get different frequencies bounced to different speakers?
Logged
doc smiley
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 353


Timeless pounds the livin' daylights outta trendy


View Profile
« Reply #2662 on: December 03, 2020, 02:17:34 PM »

always found it interesting that a few years later Glen Campbell had a minor hit called Sunflower, At that time I did look to see if there was a Beach Boy connection, but other than the obvious, there wasn't.  Cool Guy
Logged

"A voice or a song can be so comforting to someone who really needs it."
..................................Brian Wilson, 1990
mtaber
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 489


View Profile
« Reply #2663 on: December 03, 2020, 03:12:02 PM »

In the version of “Back Home” done around that time, there’s the line about “backyards where folks keep sunflowers growin”...
Logged
CenturyDeprived
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5749



View Profile
« Reply #2664 on: December 03, 2020, 03:19:54 PM »

In the version of “Back Home” done around that time, there’s the line about “backyards where folks keep sunflowers growin”...

Interesting, I wonder if that lyric came about after the album title was coined, or vice versa
Logged
mtaber
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 489


View Profile
« Reply #2665 on: December 03, 2020, 03:32:32 PM »

I’d think the song lyric inspired the album title. I can imagine the thinking being “holy crap, we were gonna call the album Add Some Music, but the single flopped - now what do we call it?”
Logged
mtaber
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 489


View Profile
« Reply #2666 on: December 03, 2020, 03:38:45 PM »

I’d also express the opinion that Sunflower  wasn’t successful commercially primarily  because The Beach Boys were the uncoolest band in the universe at that time. Nothing to do with the drums. 
Logged
Joshilyn Hoisington
Honored Guest
******
Online Online

Gender: Female
Posts: 3307


Aeijtzsche


View Profile
« Reply #2667 on: December 03, 2020, 06:42:05 PM »

Well now I'm more confused - and, admittedly, I have not gone to the honored guests thread -

If you can send a signal to 4 speakers, surely you can record that signal (output) and then press that as 4 discrete channels on any medium that stores more than 4 channels.

What am I missing?


The issue is that you can't send a signal to 4 speakers in this case.  Desper never did a mix with 4 discrete output signals.  His device is for two speakers.
So is this system like Prologic 2 where you get different frequencies bounced to different speakers?

Well as far as I know, Desper has never really elaborated on what the process did under the hood, but no--Prologic uses some kind of summing/subtraction matrix to artificially create discrete material to multi-speaker set-ups.  Desper's system is for stereo -- it only goes to two speakers but his technology does some things to psychoacoustically trick the brain into hearing a more 3D sound. 
Logged
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4941


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2668 on: December 03, 2020, 08:32:22 PM »

I LOVE the mixing on Sunflower/Surf's Up but I think part of the reason those records weren't commercially successful is that the drums aren't very audible in the mix. I could be completely wrong (and no disrespect to Mr. Desper's incredible work) but that's my POV.

Compare the BBs early-'70s mixes to their peers at the time (CSNY, Neil Young, etc.) — the drums are a larger part of the overall picture w/ a more "rock" sound.

I would be interested to hear a remix, knowing that nothing can replace the released mixes.

Interestingly, shortly thereafter on CATP, they went overboard in the opposite direction, with the comically too-loud drums on "Here She Comes"  LOL

Well, that one WAS produced & mixed by a drummer, so...
Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
Pissing off drunks since 1978
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11844


🍦🍦 Pet Demon for Sale - $5 or best offer ☮☮


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2669 on: December 03, 2020, 09:04:17 PM »

I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺
Logged

Need your song mixed/mastered? Contact me at fear2stop@yahoo.com. Serious inquiries only, please!
rab2591
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 5865


"My God. It's full of stars."


View Profile
« Reply #2670 on: December 04, 2020, 01:34:31 AM »

I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.
Logged

Bill Tobelman's SMiLE site

God must’ve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

Ever want to hear some Beach Boys songs mashed up together like The Beatles' 'LOVE' album? Check out my mix!
c-man
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Gender: Male
Posts: 4941


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2671 on: December 04, 2020, 06:39:28 AM »

I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".
Logged
B.E.
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 760



View Profile
« Reply #2672 on: December 04, 2020, 07:12:28 AM »

I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".

The drums and bass are too loud for my taste. Conversely, the lead vocals are buried. I wish they'd introduced themselves by leaning closer to the mic!   Grin
Logged

Every wave is new until it breaks.
WillJC
Smiley Smile Associate
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 510


View Profile
« Reply #2673 on: December 04, 2020, 07:28:55 AM »

I’d think the song lyric inspired the album title. I can imagine the thinking being “holy crap, we were gonna call the album Add Some Music, but the single flopped - now what do we call it?”

The album title came from the logo of a sunflower crate label, it was Carl's idea. Google 'Orangedale Sunflower'.

I'd imagine the line in Back Home was meant as a deliberate reference. The album was always called 'Sunflower' even when it was first submitted - 'Add Some Music' was a temporary change from the label to tie into the single.
Logged
guitarfool2002
Global Moderator
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9996


"Barba non facit aliam historici"


View Profile WWW
« Reply #2674 on: December 04, 2020, 08:01:48 AM »

I happen to love the sound of the drums on that track 🥺

The drums are perfect on that song. Yes they are loud, but the drum pattern is simple enough that the loudness only compliments the mood of the song. The drums mix with the bass perfectly, and both set a driving rhythm that makes the song unique yet absolutely listenable.

That’s probably my most played song from that album.

I don't mind the drums on this track, either, but have always noticed how loud they and the bass are. Being Ricky and Blondie's first BBs track, it's as if they're introducing themselves in a conspicuous manner - stepping right up to the album's listeners, extending their hand, and saying, "Welcome to OUR musical world".

Or I think the band as a whole was trying to get some attention with the rock audiences and get closer to what FM and AOR radio was playing, and part of that sound was based on Zeppelin, The Who, etc where drums and bass were way up in the mixes. "When The Levee Breaks" being perhaps the most famous example, where the drums and the drum sound are the main hook of the tune, and that's a truly *extreme* drum sound that became iconic.

However...when you listen to the song "Here She Comes", and consider when it was recorded, the production actually sounds a few years ahead of its time, and predates what became a staple of mid-70's FM album rock: The rock shuffle, or for more musician-minded types the up-tempo version of what Steely Dan used on a few of their more well known songs and also what Jeff Porcaro used on hit after hit. That driving shuffle, the close-mic'ed isolated drum sound pushed up in the mix, etc.

Listen to the intro - That driving shuffle could have been "The Lido Shuffle" by Boz Scaggs, "Black Friday" or "Reelin In The Years" by Steely Dan, or perhaps even more coincidental if you put a Clarence Clemmons sax line on top of that intro, it was very close if not eerily similar to what Springsteen was doing on his first few albums, especially with that Hammond organ.

So was CATP more influential than any sales numbers would indicate, or was it just something in the musical air in 1972-73 that happened to be a sound of the moment? Either way it did give the band a rock edge that they were looking for to cross over to some rock and AOR listeners.

Great track, great sounds - But looking back on it I wonder if it would have actually gotten airplay if they had kept the fast driving shuffle in the intro going throughout the song rather than breaking the groove as they did and slowing the pulse. Not a critique, just an observation, but if you get people moving and grooving on a rocking shuffle it's generally a letdown to have them stop moving and grooving the same way after setting them up.
Logged

"All of us have the privilege of making music that helps and heals - to make music that makes people happier, stronger, and kinder. Don't forget: Music is God's voice." - Brian Wilson
gfx
Pages: 1 ... 102 103 104 105 106 [107] 108 109 110 111 112 ... 171 Go Up Print 
gfx
Jump to:  
gfx
Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Page created in 0.695 seconds with 22 queries.
Helios Multi design by Bloc
gfx
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!