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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 176641 times)
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« Reply #2150 on: October 16, 2020, 09:05:59 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."
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« Reply #2151 on: October 16, 2020, 09:42:04 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

Maybe he thought you said "Never Learn not to Love"....possible.
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« Reply #2152 on: October 16, 2020, 11:51:19 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

Maybe he thought you said "Never Learn not to Love"....possible.

I agree with that. He might have misheard you, perhaps? He has performed it live.

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« Reply #2153 on: October 16, 2020, 01:21:45 PM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

This is a good example about how all of these guys are sometimes just effing weird.

Some others theorized Al misheard you. I doubt it. I think he heard correctly, and reacted in that strange way. I would guess maybe he wasn't offended, but I do think he and all of the guys to varying degrees (especially Al, Mike, and Bruce who toured much more during the BB years than Brian did) often still fall back into the mode of being trigger-shy/apprehensive about "non-hit" material, or "less well known" material.

Sometimes the guys, especially in the years after Carl's death in the 2000s, have embraced the obscure stuff more to varying degrees (Brian and Al more so than Mike, but even Mike has done more deep cuts in the 2000s than he ever did in the 80s or 90s). But they also have it baked into their brains that "Obscure Deep Cuts" = something potentially bad. Lukewarm response for the audience, promoters being annoyed you're not doing more hits, all sorts of stuff.

So I think Al has often embraced deep cuts, and ironically has *specifically* singled out the track "Lookin' at Tomorrow" NUMEROUS times over the years. He added it back to the BB setlist in 1983 for awhile, during the height of the quickie-oldies-show-after-a-baseball-game era. Al also did the song with his "Family & Friends" band in 1999 and at subsequent solo shows in the 2000s, and then also of course with Brian's band.

It's one of his go-to Al-centric deep cuts, and in the same year he was probably doing the song in concert, he also could have easily been taken aback and felt trigger-shy about doing the song.

I asked Brian in a Yahoo online chat in 2000 if he'd ever do "Sail on Sailor" in concert, and he insisted he would *never* perform it. Then a year later he performed it.

I saw one of the few Brian/Al joint shows in 2007 (the infamous one where Brian decided to lay down and take a nap on stage), and Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

I think sometimes when Al thinks of a track from like 1971, he sometimes remembers the negative stuff and associates it with that. Other times, he is able to just look at the pure music and discuss how good it is.

This is why it's hard to trust how they feel about material and how they'll act towards it, either in concert or on archival releases, etc. It can change all the time. Al said in 2012 interviews that the reunion was a "one last time" sort of thing, yet I absolutely think he also really thought (naively) that the reunion would or could be permanent.

These guys are pro at contradicting themselves and each other.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2020, 01:24:23 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #2154 on: October 16, 2020, 02:01:40 PM »

Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

In this particular case, based on what has been said over the years, it also seems that this has a lot to do with the him just really not being keen on the lyrics.
I forget what he said about it during the Warmth of the Sun podcase series, but I think he had good things to say about is musically.

On this topic, I always thought Mike sounds quite self-conscious/doubtful in the way he introduces Isn't It Time on the 50th live album
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« Reply #2155 on: October 16, 2020, 02:14:39 PM »

On this topic, I always thought Mike sounds quite self-conscious/doubtful in the way he introduces Isn't It Time on the 50th live album

Another area where they seem weird and arguably contradictory, because Mike indeed always seemed to have a kind of a subdued (and later more directly antagonistic) position about the reunion album, yet "Isn't It Time" was the *only* song from the album that he KEPT in his own setlist for his own band after the 50th tour was over. Granted, it didn't last long, but he weirdly kept doing that song after the messy end to the reunion and after he expressed misgivings about the album.
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« Reply #2156 on: October 16, 2020, 02:23:28 PM »

Artists have a weird relationship with their songs. I mean, Brian has stated numerous times how much he hates Sail On Sailor ( I think it痴 more the lyrics if I recall correctly), which just blows my mind
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« Reply #2157 on: October 16, 2020, 03:07:10 PM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I've told the story before- When I met Al, I mentioned something about "Lookin At Tomorrow" (I think I said I was surprised he didn't play it), and he responded very strangely. He seemed taken aback or almost offended, and said something like, "No, no ... that song is not ... appropriate ..."

This is a good example about how all of these guys are sometimes just effing weird.

Some others theorized Al misheard you. I doubt it. I think he heard correctly, and reacted in that strange way. I would guess maybe he wasn't offended, but I do think he and all of the guys to varying degrees (especially Al, Mike, and Bruce who toured much more during the BB years than Brian did) often still fall back into the mode of being trigger-shy/apprehensive about "non-hit" material, or "less well known" material.

Sometimes the guys, especially in the years after Carl's death in the 2000s, have embraced the obscure stuff more to varying degrees (Brian and Al more so than Mike, but even Mike has done more deep cuts in the 2000s than he ever did in the 80s or 90s). But they also have it baked into their brains that "Obscure Deep Cuts" = something potentially bad. Lukewarm response for the audience, promoters being annoyed you're not doing more hits, all sorts of stuff.

So I think Al has often embraced deep cuts, and ironically has *specifically* singled out the track "Lookin' at Tomorrow" NUMEROUS times over the years. He added it back to the BB setlist in 1983 for awhile, during the height of the quickie-oldies-show-after-a-baseball-game era. Al also did the song with his "Family & Friends" band in 1999 and at subsequent solo shows in the 2000s, and then also of course with Brian's band.

It's one of his go-to Al-centric deep cuts, and in the same year he was probably doing the song in concert, he also could have easily been taken aback and felt trigger-shy about doing the song.

I asked Brian in a Yahoo online chat in 2000 if he'd ever do "Sail on Sailor" in concert, and he insisted he would *never* perform it. Then a year later he performed it.

I saw one of the few Brian/Al joint shows in 2007 (the infamous one where Brian decided to lay down and take a nap on stage), and Brian introduced "Sail on Sailor" as something like "not a very good song, but we're gonna do it anyway." I think that sentiment comes not from Brian outright hating the song, but years and decades of bulls**t attached to the song and that era, inner band politics, fading success on the charts, etc.

I think sometimes when Al thinks of a track from like 1971, he sometimes remembers the negative stuff and associates it with that. Other times, he is able to just look at the pure music and discuss how good it is.

This is why it's hard to trust how they feel about material and how they'll act towards it, either in concert or on archival releases, etc. It can change all the time. Al said in 2012 interviews that the reunion was a "one last time" sort of thing, yet I absolutely think he also really thought (naively) that the reunion would or could be permanent.

These guys are pro at contradicting themselves and each other.

It's been a couple years now (this was around October 2018), so I don't remember the exact convo - but I think you are right ... his response was bizarre, and these guys are bizarre at times. And tbh I was taken aback by meeting him in this way - as a fan. My take at the time was that he didn't think it fit with the vibe or image of the type of show he was doing. Like, "postcard from California"/folk tales of BB songs type of thing ... like Lookin At Tomorrow was political, etc. That was my take, but who the F knows ... no idea where he would have confused it with "Never Learn Not To Love", that's a real stretch ha.

EDIT: I remember a little more- I believe I said, "I'm surprised you didn't play 'Lookin' At Tomorrow" ... it wasn't like I was telling him he should have or requesting it ... made the response even more weird. I might have even said, "Since you played Surf's Up, I'm surprised you didn't play Take A Load off Your Feet or Lookin At Tomorrow", and he could have even said something like, "No, Lookin at Tomorrow is not ... [big pensive pause with offended look] ... it's not right ... you can't ... it's ... it's not appropriate ..." ... it was that weird man. I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words, but that was the general gist of the interaction.
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« Reply #2158 on: October 16, 2020, 04:25:18 PM »

These days that song would actually fit the current climate quite well
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« Reply #2159 on: October 16, 2020, 06:27:13 PM »

It's been a couple years now (this was around October 2018), so I don't remember the exact convo - but I think you are right ... his response was bizarre, and these guys are bizarre at times. And tbh I was taken aback by meeting him in this way - as a fan. My take at the time was that he didn't think it fit with the vibe or image of the type of show he was doing. Like, "postcard from California"/folk tales of BB songs type of thing ... like Lookin At Tomorrow was political, etc. That was my take, but who the F knows ... no idea where he would have confused it with "Never Learn Not To Love", that's a real stretch ha.

EDIT: I remember a little more- I believe I said, "I'm surprised you didn't play 'Lookin' At Tomorrow" ... it wasn't like I was telling him he should have or requesting it ... made the response even more weird. I might have even said, "Since you played Surf's Up, I'm surprised you didn't play Take A Load off Your Feet or Lookin At Tomorrow", and he could have even said something like, "No, Lookin at Tomorrow is not ... [big pensive pause with offended look] ... it's not right ... you can't ... it's ... it's not appropriate ..." ... it was that weird man. I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember the exact words, but that was the general gist of the interaction.
I heard Al perform a lovely version of the song at City Winery in April 2018. just six months earlier. Truly strange!

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« Reply #2160 on: October 17, 2020, 12:11:46 AM »

It's no mystery to me why Al might be gun-shy and/or choosy with respect to deep cuts.  Not all audiences and venues are created equal.  If Al feels that, say, "Lookin At Tomorrow" is appropriate at some venues and with some audiences but not at or with others, well, God bless him, Al may have very good reasons for thinking that.  

 I've told this story before on this board, but I too attended a "Something Great From '68" show.  It was at one of the big Indian casinos near Palm Springs.  And frankly I've never seen an audience less receptive to or appreciative of deep cuts than the crowd that night.   I mean, it was Brian Wilson, Al Jardine, Blondie and one of the best bands in the business... playing all this great music.... and folks were walking out early.  Not a few.  Not a trickle.  I mean, they were pouring out early in droves.   Sure, Brian and Al are in their late 70s and they've been doing this forever, and they're not guys with huge egos, but you can't tell me that they don't notice when a flood of folks are walking out early. On that particular night, it was a fairly big venue, and my understanding is that the casino gives away a fair amount of tickets to its gambling crowd who aren't necessarily even fans of the hits, let alone the deep cuts.
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« Reply #2161 on: October 17, 2020, 02:47:43 AM »

I think part of the "problem" here is that their hit songs have such universal appeal. Also, the Beach Boys, unlike the Beatles, aren't particularly loved for their album catalog (yet?). An album like Friends may appeal to hardcore fans (I know it's my personal favorite) but neither did that one sell at the time nor did it make it into those "best albums ever" lists by Rolling Stome or Mojo over the years. So I do find Al's surprise at the band touring that album understandable (if a little sad, personally). Not to the same degree as Pet Sounds, but Surf's Up is at least respected among critics I think (because it's a "darker", heavier record I presume) yet some of the lyrics and even the music on that album may be perplexing if you came to see Little Deuce Coupe and California Girls; genius songs, very uplifting and familiar too - and then comes Al Jardine and sings an unknown song about unemployment? I can totally see why that wouldn't work with every audience. The Beach Boys have virtually no history of challenging their concert audiences (except maybe for a couple of years in the early 70s).
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« Reply #2162 on: October 17, 2020, 09:20:10 AM »

Maybe not the Beach Boys with a few exceptions (like the '93 box set performances), but man some of those earlier pre-Smile Brian tours were full of deep cuts, just fantastic setlists full of tracks people never thought they'd hear played on stage, no less by Brian himself. There were some truly great setlists from 99-04 or so. After Smile was a blockbuster, a few tours got more deep cuts if not specific works like the Gershwin shows which I'd say were pretty challenging setlists, but the '68 tour I saw at the Tower had a great mix of hits and the deep Friends cuts. And I swear I saw Al do "Welfare Song" live but can't recall when or where...if I'm wrong, please let me know.

I agree about the casino crowds as described above, the practice of "comping" the gamblers and high rollers tickets for any number of shows is what leads to that kind of episode. It's a fucking weird subculture where older people get all these free gifts from the casinos and some just don't care what the shows may be or who is even playing, hence the walkouts. If it isn't their thing, they split and eat cocktail shrimp and prime rib at the buffet like there's no tomorrow, and money isn't even an issue since they piss it away gambling on the floor anyway. And the younger gamblers are there to gamble, not to see a legacy act. So it's kind of odd to expect a crowd like that to want to see whatever show they're getting comped tickets for.

How does this tie in to a Feel Flows box set? Honestly, and seriously, did most of the audience who paid a lot of cash to see McCartney live buy tickets to see him play deep cuts from Ram, or McCartney II, or even more than a few from Egypt Station or something? Hell no. They were there for the hits, and most were fine with that. Imagine Paul *not* doing Hey Jude or I Saw Her Standing There and instead doing deep album cuts that a few diehards would go nuts over and more in the crowd would be hitting the bathrooms or concession stands. Yet Paul's deluxe box sets have a core audience and they buy those deluxe sets en masse. There has to be a separation, and the success or lack thereof of a deluxe archival release should *not* be tied to what these musicians play at their live shows, again especially legacy artists who have a full library of "hits" and crowd-pleasers.

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« Reply #2163 on: October 17, 2020, 12:02:58 PM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

I wish I could have been at a show with the Zombies! Unfortunately, I don't think they came to Dallas with them. I have seen Brian's groups about 5 times. Saw Mike's band once back in 99 or 2000.
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« Reply #2164 on: October 17, 2020, 01:33:41 PM »


 And I swear I saw Al do "Welfare Song" live but can't recall when or where...if I'm wrong, please let me know.



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« Reply #2165 on: October 17, 2020, 06:39:53 PM »

Maybe not the Beach Boys with a few exceptions (like the '93 box set performances), but man some of those earlier pre-Smile Brian tours were full of deep cuts, just fantastic setlists full of tracks people never thought they'd hear played on stage, no less by Brian himself. There were some truly great setlists from 99-04 or so. After Smile was a blockbuster, a few tours got more deep cuts if not specific works like the Gershwin shows which I'd say were pretty challenging setlists, but the '68 tour I saw at the Tower had a great mix of hits and the deep Friends cuts. And I swear I saw Al do "Welfare Song" live but can't recall when or where...if I'm wrong, please let me know.

I agree about the casino crowds as described above, the practice of "comping" the gamblers and high rollers tickets for any number of shows is what leads to that kind of episode. It's a fucking weird subculture where older people get all these free gifts from the casinos and some just don't care what the shows may be or who is even playing, hence the walkouts. If it isn't their thing, they split and eat cocktail shrimp and prime rib at the buffet like there's no tomorrow, and money isn't even an issue since they piss it away gambling on the floor anyway. And the younger gamblers are there to gamble, not to see a legacy act. So it's kind of odd to expect a crowd like that to want to see whatever show they're getting comped tickets for.

How does this tie in to a Feel Flows box set? Honestly, and seriously, did most of the audience who paid a lot of cash to see McCartney live buy tickets to see him play deep cuts from Ram, or McCartney II, or even more than a few from Egypt Station or something? Hell no. They were there for the hits, and most were fine with that. Imagine Paul *not* doing Hey Jude or I Saw Her Standing There and instead doing deep album cuts that a few diehards would go nuts over and more in the crowd would be hitting the bathrooms or concession stands. Yet Paul's deluxe box sets have a core audience and they buy those deluxe sets en masse. There has to be a separation, and the success or lack thereof of a deluxe archival release should *not* be tied to what these musicians play at their live shows, again especially legacy artists who have a full library of "hits" and crowd-pleasers.


Or the artists could play smaller venues, where the audience is the die hards, not gamblers looking to take a break from the slot machines.
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« Reply #2166 on: October 17, 2020, 10:58:58 PM »

Speaking personally only but as an artist I壇 hate to perform at one of those type of shows. 鄭h so hey, new album痴 up at fear2stop.bandcamp.com oh and hey they got the snow crabs out at the buffet now only $39.95 to get in. So here痴 our newest....hey wait...please come back! Ah, sh*t.

No thanks
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« Reply #2167 on: October 18, 2020, 07:25:01 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #2168 on: October 18, 2020, 08:07:55 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn稚 want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought 的値l start doing rare stuff, too.
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« Reply #2169 on: October 18, 2020, 08:55:04 AM »


No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn稚 want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought 的値l start doing rare stuff, too.

That was RJM, reporting live from inside Mike Love's brain. Now, the weather.
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« Reply #2170 on: October 18, 2020, 10:15:19 AM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies.  

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #2171 on: October 18, 2020, 10:21:39 AM »

Ever experience deja vu???
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« Reply #2172 on: October 18, 2020, 10:27:54 AM »

Ever experience deja vu???

I keep having issues with double post glitches on here
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #2173 on: October 18, 2020, 12:14:53 PM »

A couple of years ago we had the pleasure of attending a Brian Wilson concert called "Something Great from '68" that featured Al Jardine and Blondie Chaplin and had the Zombies as the opening act performing their Odessey & Oracle album in its entirety, with Darian Sahanaja playing on stage with the Zombies. 

Then Brian and his band (including Al and Blondie) took the stage and performed the Friends album (or at least most of it) just like Brian had done in previous years with Pet Sounds and Smile. It was to commemorate the 50th anniversary of the Friends album.

But just prior to starting the Friends album set, Al said something which I thought was a bit odd. He said something to the effect that "this band up here knows these songs better than I do, and I was there when we recorded them, and while I have no idea why you would actually want to hear this album performed in its entirety, here it is."

He was clearly bemused by the idea of performing in its entirety what he apparently thought was mostly a "throwaway" album of mostly insignificant songs, but at the same time he was certainly willing to do it if that's what Brian and his band wanted to play and if that's what the audience wanted to hear.

So other than maybe "Cotton Fields," maybe that's how Al feels about Sunflower and Surf's Up or (especially) the unreleased Sunflower and Surf''s Up era tracks that he thinks are mostly forgettable or in some cases embarrassing or maybe even outright suck. Maybe there is just not as much juice or enthusiasm for the Sunflower and Surf's Up period among the surviving Beach Boys as there is with Beach Boys fans.

Al doesn't dislike any of that material. He likes it. He was talking about doing "Be Here in the Morning" back in 1999 with his "Family & Friends" band. He's been doing multiple songs from "Surf's Up" at his own solo shows. The issue is that his brain still, in part, associates all of that material with not selling well and not regularly doing the material in concert.

What you're seeing/hearing when Al does that shtick about "Friends" (or insert the name of whatever album/song/era that wasn't popular at the time) is just a leftover from the mentality all of the guys have had to varying degrees over the years.

For whatever reason, they measure things by how popular they were/are. You can go all the way back to concert recordings from the 70s/80s/90s where band members are literally *apologizing* on stage for doing a new song, or a rare cut. In some cases they would even introduce *semi-hits* as if they were doing some crazy, rare cut. "Heroes and Villains" was introduced this way sometimes in the 90s for instance.

Read recent interviews with Billy Joel. He describes doing *fan favorite* cuts like "All for Leyna" and "Laura" as if he thinks/knows the audience has no interest in it. The guy doesn't have *that* many albums, and when he does a 20K seater arena, I assure you many thousands remember "All for Leyna" or whatever.

Anyway, my point is that to varying degrees, especially the members that toured for all those decades, they don't think of the BB catalog the way we do. They don't look at it all as music. They look at it partly as product, and they remember what was a hit and what wasn't. Now, some members, if you almost sort of *force* them to get out of that mindset and just listen to and talk about the music, will then talk about how amazing the music is. Pretty much all the guys but Mike seem pretty capable of doing it. Mike will occasionally acknowledge and show appreciate for "bombs". But Mike is the only member who seems to nearly always run all of the material through the filter of what was and wasn't a hit or otherwise popular.

Long story short, the issues with the "Feel Flows" set do not have anything to do with Al Jardine (or Brian or Bruce, or even Mike particularly) not liking the 70/71 material. I think Mike is the least effusive about that material, but even in that case, I don't think his lack of overt, regular enthusiasm for the material is the direct reason for any problems with getting the set released.

Again, you have to realize that the band okayed the set being compiled, mixed, and mastered. If they didn't like the material at all or hated it so much they didn't want such a set out, they wouldn't have bothered having the whole thing compiled, which took a lot of work and time.

No, I don't think this is accurate. Hasn't Mike often performed All This Is That? Isn't Forever a regular song on his set list? Didn't he perform Wild Honey awhipe ago? I have seen many times where Mike praises the music of the late 60s and early 70s but blames Capitol for continuing to promote them as a surf band. In his book he stated that in the early 70s they would perform songs like Long Promised Road, Surfs Up or All This Is That, and he has the scars to prove it. Implying that fans wanted to hear the hits. Carl Wilson has said the same thing. The Beach Boys were fighting their audience back then. I believe that times have changed in the 21st century and not only Brian does a lot of deep cuts, Mike added songs to his set list as well. The 2012 concerts had somgs across all eras and guess who was in charge of the set list. Mike!

Again I say, the argument that Mike is the one keeping Feel Flows to come out because it has too much Dennis material contradicts what has recently come out with the Friends and 20/20 sessions as well as Made in California. All heavy on unreleased Dennis Wilson songs.

I know the politics of the band, but I also know how fans and media have exaggerated facts throughout history to create a narrative that Mike Love is evil. So again I say to all on this board, give me some facts that proves Mike is the reason Feel Flows Isn't coming out. Not just because you think you know how it works.

Just to point this out, Brian was doing deep cuts when Mike was still doing the hits and oldies covers.  Mike was not some revolutionary genius in this regard. He didn稚 want to get outshined by someone that he feels is an inferior performer. So,he thought 的値l start doing rare stuff, too.

I do agree that Brian was doing more deep cuts first. That is true. The first time I saw Brian live was during the first Pet Sounds tour. A couple years earlier I saw Mike and Bruce for the first time and the least popular songs they did were Do It Again, Disney Girls and Darlin. But that was true when Carl was still around.
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"Over the years, I've been accused of not supporting our new music from this era (67-73) and just wanting to play our hits. That's complete b.s......I was also, as the front man, the one promoting these songs onstage and have the scars to show for it."
Mike Love autobiography (pg 242-243)
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« Reply #2174 on: October 18, 2020, 01:36:46 PM »

Ever experience deja vu???

Yes.

Oh, you mean because of the "The Beach Boys were nothing without Mike's showmanship" vs "Brian is a genius" thing. Yeah, that too.

I'll settle this once and for all - Brian is a genius.

Carry on.
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