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664527 Posts in 26635 Topics by 3819 Members - Latest Member: Occasional grilled cheese December 01, 2020, 04:09:16 AM
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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 208492 times)
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #1325 on: September 03, 2020, 04:25:11 PM »

100% agreed. At the end of the day that’s all that matters
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
rab2591
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« Reply #1326 on: September 03, 2020, 04:35:39 PM »

Thank you Cork for posting that timeline. Helps to have everything in one spot.

Here’s where I stand. Unless there’s something brewing behind the scenes that we don’t know about that’s completely out of base with what I’m about to say there’s only two things that are at play; Mike vetoed, or the label got cold feet and changed their mind ( that’s if you take “dying on the vine” to mean Capitol Records ie Hollywood and *Vine*). The former would not surprise me in the least based on past history. The same history that keeps The Beach Boys from getting their just dues, an unfortunate ramification of the 1977 tarmac incident ; had the results played out differently we might now be having this discussion now.

For the second part, though, I would think once it’s agreed to and the label signs off on it, only the label could cancel or pull it at that point. That’s the thing that keeps getting me.

At the end of the day though it’s not why it’s been held back or shelved; it’s getting it out there. And I don’t think that’s gonna happen at this point.
The idea of the label getting cold feet actually sounds slightly plausible once you read this quote from Howie from July: "It forever changes how The Beach Boys will be viewed as (a) musical entity at the beginning of the decade". There must be some serious revelations on it.

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

Jon Stebbin's posted that the label wants this thing out there. So it is obviously not the label.

Billy, I don't think this thing is getting released either. I'm still going to share the petition, still going to beg those in a position of influence to do whatever they can. But at this point I think this thing is done with. I don't know what the hell happened, but I hope it was for a damn good reason. Otherwise, they just let down a TON of fans, let down the makers of the boxset, and most of all let down the ever-evolving historical record of this band.

f*** it, if people think the legacy is completely set in stone, so be it. But good grief, something like this could have massive influence on how rock press talks about The Beach Boys. Just like how now SMiLE is very much part of The Beach Boys lore now instead of being just a minor footnote. Major archival releases help define who bands are and how the current (and future) generations see the band. This won't at all diminish their amazing 60s output, rather it gives us an entirely new perspective on the post-60s era that will only make every person involved in this set MORE MONEY.

Again, I don't know what the hell happened, but I'm assuming if Howie came here to spill the beans about it to get some word going around, I'm betting the problem is something completely petty and trivial. Otherwise, if it were something heartfelt/serious I'm sure Howie would've respected the decision to shelve the thing.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 04:37:08 PM by rab2591 » Logged

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Feel Flows is coming out and I couldn’t be more happy! Thanks to everyone who made this happen!
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« Reply #1327 on: September 03, 2020, 04:41:10 PM »

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.
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Feel Flows is coming out and I couldn’t be more happy! Thanks to everyone who made this happen!
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« Reply #1328 on: September 03, 2020, 04:42:24 PM »

But that’s the thing though....it was already signed off on if I understood correctly. Legally speaking once that happens, isn’t Capitol the only ones who can shelve it at that point?

I just hate the fact the all of the hard work put into it is so far going to waste
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1329 on: September 03, 2020, 04:45:27 PM »

Countless other watchers of that film dug deeper into this band because he chose the song "Feel Flows" in the end credits. (I'm guessing that was the very first time that song was licensed in any sort of Hollywood film? I would be shocked if there was an earlier example.) Crowe CLEARLY thinks highly of the 70-71 period of this band. He CLEARLY thought that was a significant song to put in his film. He's a music geek and scholar. This song being in that movie was no accident. Crowe is probably the most high profile person to specifically give center stage to the material of this band from this era, especially at that relatively early date of 2000.

I've always kinda assumed that Crowe chose "Feel Flows", at least in part, as a tribute to Carl. This was Crowe's first film since Carl's death. Has Crowe ever commented on that? Just a curiosity...

« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 04:46:33 PM by B.E. » Logged
♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #1330 on: September 03, 2020, 04:46:08 PM »

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.

I see both points (see the end of my last post) but all of that (save the actual box design) can be released digitally too.  Here’s something...I would buy the digital set and the physical copy too. So, to whomever the ghoul that’s holding this back... I’M WILLING TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET TWICE dammit
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 04:48:15 PM by ♩♬🐸 Apple Bottom Jeans (Boots with the Fur) ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1331 on: September 03, 2020, 04:58:06 PM »


I can only also add that I don't think anybody in a million years would ever guess the specific "why" involved in the delays, and without knowing *those* details, the "who" cannot be easily assumed.

As I've been saying since the beginning, when it comes to the "how/why/who", it's better to not assume anything and tell *all* the band members and other related parties that this set needs to come out.


Fans have been speaking. Over 1100 so far signed a petition. How many more signatures are needed? How many more social media posts are needed? So some fans don't like petitions, but it's an organized way for fans to come together and make their voices heard on a single topic.

Others are silent. Not radio silence, not dead air...at this point maybe "gag order" is a better description? Who knows.

Does anyone among band members and related parties care? Is anyone listening to fans doing exactly what's been suggested?

I think if the answer is "no", and no one is listening to the fans, then perhaps knowing at some point the who and the why would be very important.

Actually what's probably most important would be for someone to at least acknowledge the fans' voices. This radio silence or gag order makes it seem like no one gives a sh*t. And on top of that, other fans saying it's a waste of time...WHY is it a waste of time if no one knows who or why the set got shelved and no release date is in sight?

What a farce.
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« Reply #1332 on: September 03, 2020, 05:04:06 PM »

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.

I see both points (see the end of my last post) but all of that (save the actual box design) can be released digitally too.  Here’s something...I would buy the digital set and the physical copy too. So, to whomever the ghoul that’s holding this back... I’M WILLING TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET TWICE dammit
At this point, I Will BUY MULTIPLE COPIES AND GIVE THEM TO THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD AND EH(*gasp*). PHYSICAL AND DIGITAL. That's how badly I want this damn thing.
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« Reply #1333 on: September 03, 2020, 05:09:08 PM »


I can only also add that I don't think anybody in a million years would ever guess the specific "why" involved in the delays, and without knowing *those* details, the "who" cannot be easily assumed.

As I've been saying since the beginning, when it comes to the "how/why/who", it's better to not assume anything and tell *all* the band members and other related parties that this set needs to come out.


Fans have been speaking. Over 1100 so far signed a petition. How many more signatures are needed? How many more social media posts are needed? So some fans don't like petitions, but it's an organized way for fans to come together and make their voices heard on a single topic.

Others are silent. Not radio silence, not dead air...at this point maybe "gag order" is a better description? Who knows.

Does anyone among band members and related parties care? Is anyone listening to fans doing exactly what's been suggested?

I think if the answer is "no", and no one is listening to the fans, then perhaps knowing at some point the who and the why would be very important.

Actually what's probably most important would be for someone to at least acknowledge the fans' voices. This radio silence or gag order makes it seem like no one gives a sh*t. And on top of that, other fans saying it's a waste of time...WHY is it a waste of time if no one knows who or why the set got shelved and no release date is in sight?

What a farce.

Agreed 1000%
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Feel Flows is coming out and I couldn’t be more happy! Thanks to everyone who made this happen!
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« Reply #1334 on: September 03, 2020, 05:09:34 PM »

If the Feel Flows box set as it stands now doesn't come out, I hope with all my heart that at the very least we end up getting the vast majority of it as a digital only release. I don't really care how this material is presented to us, as long as we get to hear it.

While I get what you're saying (because at this point I wouldn't care if this thing were given to me on a cassette tape, I just want to hear it), I really do care how this material is presented to us, because three guys spent three long years putting their hearts into this set...liner notes, photographs, box design, mixing, etc. And for it to never see the light of day is completely baffling and upsetting to me.

Someone said it before here, but I'll say it again: I almost wish I didn't even know this set existed.

I see both points (see the end of my last post) but all of that (save the actual box design) can be released digitally too.  Here’s something...I would buy the digital set and the physical copy too. So, to whomever the ghoul that’s holding this back... I’M WILLING TO PUT MONEY IN YOUR POCKET TWICE dammit
At this point, I Will BUY MULTIPLE COPIES AND GIVE THEM TO THE MEMBERS OF THIS BOARD AND EH(*gasp*). PHYSICAL AND DIGITAL. That's how badly I want this damn thing.

Famous last words! 😂 Maybe add a caveat that one has to buy our next album first 😏
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 05:10:23 PM by ♩♬🐸 Apple Bottom Jeans (Boots with the Fur) ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1335 on: September 03, 2020, 06:11:58 PM »

Has anyone communicated with any of the adult children of the band? If this box is being junked for petty reasons as I suspect, I could imagine the adult children of the bandmembers, or at least some of them, might privately be upset and have major discontent over this. I'm sure they were very much looking forward to it. How could they not be?

Imagine, a game-changer that has the potential to elevate the artistic stature of your late parent, yet somebody wants to make damn sure to their last breath that nobody in the world ever gets to hear that music. Despicable. If petty reasons are behind it, that is truly despicable. I'm sure at minimum the children know that the set exists but is being held back, even if the nuance of exact reasons aren't 100% clear to them.

Perhaps one of them might be willing to share the petition. And then another one. Or at least comment on the petition or the box one way or another.

Are they all collectively realistically going to sit quietly about this music for the rest of their days? (I find it hard to imagine that not one of them is deeply upset about this). Not that this getting released is their fight per se, but on the other hand, maybe it actually is.

I think it's only a matter of time before somebody on the inside, or with connections to the inside, spills the beans about what's going on.

Or better yet, in lieu of bean-splilling, the adult children who presumably would be upset that their parents' music is being hung out to dry could band together to create some behind-the-scenes healthy, mature communication between the camps which will simply result in the box being released, and the true reasons can simply disappear into the ether while we enjoy the music and pad the pockets of all of the bandmembers and estates.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2020, 06:31:50 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1336 on: September 04, 2020, 04:53:47 PM »

So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

I think the "two man firing squad" refers to Mike and Brian. Obviously Mike is usually the main agitator, but so many of the group's major conflicts have been a struggle between those two forces. I don't really buy in to the whole Melinda-as-abusive-puppetmaster thing, but Mike Love certainly does as evidenced by his post-2012 comments about Brian. And Brian Wilson has a strong "team" these days in terms of PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's frustrations stemmed from the way *Brian's team* feels that Brian should be represented on this set and its liner notes. On Brian's social media, there has definitely been a deliberate effort to change the mythos of him being in bed from 1967 to 1976- which is justified since we all know Brian remained heavily involved at least until 1972-ish. But maybe Mike feels that there is some overcompensating going on and that Brian is hogging the limelight in the narrative about a period in which the other Beach Boys began doing more of the heavy lifting.
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« Reply #1337 on: September 04, 2020, 05:11:48 PM »

So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

I think the "two man firing squad" refers to Mike and Brian. Obviously Mike is usually the main agitator, but so many of the group's major conflicts have been a struggle between those two forces. I don't really buy in to the whole Melinda-as-abusive-puppetmaster thing, but Mike Love certainly does as evidenced by his post-2012 comments about Brian. And Brian Wilson has a strong "team" these days in terms of PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's frustrations stemmed from the way *Brian's team* feels that Brian should be represented on this set and its liner notes. On Brian's social media, there has definitely been a deliberate effort to change the mythos of him being in bed from 1967 to 1976- which is justified since we all know Brian remained heavily involved at least until 1972-ish. But maybe Mike feels that there is some overcompensating going on and that Brian is hogging the limelight in the narrative about a period in which the other Beach Boys began doing more of the heavy lifting.


I think that is my feeling as well.
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« Reply #1338 on: September 04, 2020, 07:06:07 PM »

If so he needs to get over himself. This is Mike’s last chance to give himself any sort of artistic legacy other than the guy who f***ed over Brian at every turn
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1339 on: September 05, 2020, 06:31:59 AM »

I think these Q&A excerpts with Mike (from Uncut, posted at http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php?topic=24884.50;wap2) helps put things into perspective a bit. You can boycott, petition, and comment online all you want against what you perceive to be his decisions, but when you catch a glimpse behind the scenes his decision-making process is simpler than you may believe. He's not really thinking about it much.
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« Reply #1340 on: September 05, 2020, 08:03:04 AM »

Further to Junkstar's comment, I reiterate the following from an interview in Goldmine in 1992 which I referred to way up thread (like, back in March):


Quote
Capitol's treatment of the Beach Boys' catalog on CD has been fabulous. What was your impression of the slew of two-fer Beach Boys CDs?

I don't even know. I don't know.

Have you seen them?

No. I don't know. You find that amusing?

Yeah, it's hard to believe that being a Beach Boy you haven't seen something like that.

It is hard to believe. I find it hard to believe too.

Why is that?

Why is that? Because I'm a Pisces, is that a good answer [uproarious laughter]? That's as good as I can come up with. There is nothing that we can do to stop them from merchandising our records the way they want to merchandise them so we're at their mercy. So if they've done something that in the opinion of the caring public is well done, then I'm glad to hear it.

http://troun.tripod.com/mikelove.html

I gather that's not quite the case in relation to Feel Flows, but it's equally clear that the fate of archival releases is not what keeps Mike awake at night. So if it's indeed Mike who's the sticking point, it was probably some decision he made in a high-handed moment of pique and promptly forgot about. Certainly he doesn't feel any affection for the "core of people absorbed in knowing everything about everything", because he thinks of us as Brian Wilson cultists who don't give him his due.
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« Reply #1341 on: September 05, 2020, 08:17:45 AM »

Thanks Junkstar and William.

I do think that the petition is more about letting every band member know how badly we want this set (because for all we know Mike isn't the one blocking this thing). Few people in the fandom have an open door to Mike's world, those that do don't seem to care much at all about this set. Thus, if it is Mike blocking this set, I would hope that Brian, Al, Bruce, Totten, etc would see that a grassroots petition (with no traction whatsoever) has gained 1,140+ signatures and pass the word along to Mike. The petition is a way for whoever is blocking this set to be made aware that many fans are hoping for this ray of light in a year that has been completely abysmal for mostly everyone.
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« Reply #1342 on: September 05, 2020, 10:40:10 AM »

The petition is about to break 1,300 signatures. As I said in the last post, the fans are speaking: How many more "goals" on this thing will be necessary? It's that no one is acknowledging it which is the frustration. The fans are doing what was recommended. And the numbers are still growing, with no coverage from any music press and going on grassroots word-of-mouth among fans with an interest.

As far as the various "camps" and this set - They know. I'm sure they know there is a petition too, and I'm sure they're made aware of what's happening in this discussion. And we know both camps are aware of the music - Al said the test pressings were played on the tour bus before Covid shut down the touring industry, so people on the BW bus heard it. Bruce teased it too, even suggesting what was perhaps a preliminary release date - He knows what's on the set. So both the Brian and Mike bands are more than aware. And as fans themselves, I'm sure band members would love to have this set in their collections.

The only problem is things hit a brick wall, and beyond that I'll use the term "gag order" to describe the scenario since no one is saying a word.

Whatever or whoever the reason may be, it must be something no one wants to discuss. And it just fuels more speculation and finger pointing.

Put the thing out.
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« Reply #1343 on: September 05, 2020, 12:53:43 PM »

So I made a comment on ESQ's facebook post regarding the 10th anniversary of Al Jardine's 'Postcard from California' expressing my disappointment at the lack of coverage regarding this box set, and received a PERSONAL MESSAGE, asking why I was taking "unnecessary shots" at ESQ and inquiring what behind-the-scenes disaster I was referring to in my comment (you can decide for yourself if anything I said was out of line, mine is the long post including the link to the change.org petition: https://www.facebook.com/ESQEditor/photos/a.345125747486/10158487201832487/?comment_id=10158495305522487&notif_id=1599151752100968&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif).

Including in my response a statement of surprise and appreciation that they would take the time to personally respond to me, I asked again why there is silence regarding this previously openly acknowledged set. And mentioned that again, 1,000+ fans are eager to spend their hard-earned money on it. The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.
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« Reply #1344 on: September 05, 2020, 01:02:05 PM »

So I made a comment on ESQ's facebook post regarding the 10th anniversary of Al Jardine's 'Postcard from California' expressing my disappointment at the lack of coverage regarding this box set, and received a PERSONAL MESSAGE, asking why I was taking "unnecessary shots" at ESQ and inquiring what behind-the-scenes disaster I was referring to in my comment (you can decide for yourself if anything I said was out of line, mine is the long post including the link to the change.org petition: https://www.facebook.com/ESQEditor/photos/a.345125747486/10158487201832487/?comment_id=10158495305522487&notif_id=1599151752100968&notif_t=feedback_reaction_generic&ref=notif).

Including in my response a statement of surprise and appreciation that they would take the time to personally respond to me, I asked again why there is silence regarding this previously openly acknowledged set. And mentioned that again, 1,000+ fans are eager to spend their hard-earned money on it. The response(s) were basically of the message that they are not the one with the answers, and that there are "more important" things going on, encouraging me to "put this in perspective" with the global pandemic and all.

Among all the articulate and superficially respectful comments, one in particular did not sit right with me; in reference to the change.org petition, they outright said to me that 1,000 fans is "not a large number" to sign this petition. That's the attitude these people are taking.

Unfortunately your comment has been deleted. Nice to know ESQ is on the fans’ side   Wink
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« Reply #1345 on: September 05, 2020, 01:08:34 PM »

Since they deleted and/or hid my comment here is a screenshot I took...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 07:37:06 PM by FreakySmiley » Logged
thetojo
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« Reply #1346 on: September 05, 2020, 01:09:09 PM »

I must say, each year I've more and more questioned the value of my ESQ subscription.
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #1347 on: September 05, 2020, 01:23:58 PM »

No question for me after that. Wow.
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« Reply #1348 on: September 05, 2020, 01:28:03 PM »

Quite similar to the moderation style of Mike Love's socials. Lost a lot of respect for ESQ over the last few years.
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« Reply #1349 on: September 05, 2020, 01:34:11 PM »

ESQ had that article said BW was an invalid “singing along” with his band... Roll Eyes
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