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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 841796 times)
Matt H
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« Reply #1175 on: August 19, 2020, 01:52:33 PM »

This was addressed a couple weeks ago in the thread, but as far as I'm hearing, the trophy hunting gig situation has zero to do with the current "Feel Flows" situation.

I also don't think marketing or pricing issues or questions about the interest/marketability are at play. It was greenlit and *completed*; it's money and time spent at this stage, so the ideal thing for everybody would be to have the set released, and that investment can be recouped.

I've mentioned several times in previous posts that focusing too much on the *why* of the hold-up is kind of a non-starter. It's not going to be made public any time soon, if ever. Because of that, and because from everything I'm hearing the issues don't have anything to do with the *content* of the set, the best course is to convince them why releasing the set is a good idea.

Have you heard if the petition has helped at all?
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« Reply #1176 on: August 19, 2020, 02:48:12 PM »

This was addressed a couple weeks ago in the thread, but as far as I'm hearing, the trophy hunting gig situation has zero to do with the current "Feel Flows" situation.

I also don't think marketing or pricing issues or questions about the interest/marketability are at play. It was greenlit and *completed*; it's money and time spent at this stage, so the ideal thing for everybody would be to have the set released, and that investment can be recouped.

I've mentioned several times in previous posts that focusing too much on the *why* of the hold-up is kind of a non-starter. It's not going to be made public any time soon, if ever. Because of that, and because from everything I'm hearing the issues don't have anything to do with the *content* of the set, the best course is to convince them why releasing the set is a good idea.

Have you heard if the petition has helped at all?

All I can say at the moment is that none of it hurts.

People talking about it here and on Twitter and Facebook and Instagram and all of that certainly can't hurt either.

ESQ seems to be ignoring it ("it" meaning the latest developments, or lack thereof as it were) online as far as I can tell. Disappointing but not surprising. All the more reason to keep the discussion going in all corners that we can.

The discussion here is very important.

I think the main thing is that those in a position to get this set in our hands need to know that we know about it, and that we know that it's done and ready to go and needs to be released. They need to know that we know that they know. And so on.

We're still doing everything we can to keep the wheels turning on this.
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« Reply #1177 on: August 19, 2020, 09:56:54 PM »

I just signed the petition and donated some extra money to spread the word.
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CenturyDeprived
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« Reply #1178 on: August 19, 2020, 10:06:53 PM »

Listening to that Nate Ruess interview about working with Brian Wilson just got me thinking, what if a celebrity who was a fan of the band did a tweet about this box set. Or what if they appeared on a podcast or a talk show or whatever is a possible means of an interview during the pandemic, and mentioned it? Not only  mentioned it, but did some advocating for why it might not be coming out, and perhaps even postulated the reasons?

Obviously it would take somebody who is a big enough fan of the band to want to do it, but I imagine there might be some celebrities who are. Maybe that would cause a news outlet to pick it up and start trying to spread the word some more that way?

Maybe the way this FF story needs to be spun is that we as fans just cannot stand for this project be another 1967 SMiLE non-release/shelving. Outside of Guns N' Roses' Chinese Democracy, there are a few fanbases who have been subject to as much waiting for holy Grail type of projects for years and years and years, only to have our hopes thwarted so many times. Maybe a writer would like to write about how this could be history repeating itself.

I think that's part of why this situation is so bothersome, because it feels like déjà vu. 1960s, 2000s, same as it ever was. And then we think about how Brian had a follow up to TWGMTR which he also shelved because the reunion imploded. And perhaps there are some similar reasons behind what's going on here compared to what happened decades earlier with this band. I'm convinced the issues that plagued this band at the beginning have mutated and are still manifesting themselves in incredibly unhealthy ways 60 years later.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 10:13:12 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
rab2591
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« Reply #1179 on: August 20, 2020, 05:18:10 AM »

Regarding that Mike Love interview, I want to reiterate a point that some seem to be getting confused about:

Darren Paltrowitz:
"The last time I interviewed you was two to three years ago, and during that interview you got a phone call from Jeffrey Foskett who had just discovered some kind of an archival release that you were thinking of putting out, and one thing that we haven't discussed is how many great archival releases from you and from The Beach Boys in the last three or four years. Is there lots and lots more in the vault that we can one day hope to hear?"

I don't think anyone is seriously surprised that Mike doesn't know the full extent of what is in the vaults. It's more that the words "archival release" were used twice in the sentence prior to the question and Mike doesn't even acknowledge the vault material that he obviously knows is awaiting release right now (in the form of Feel Flows). I nor anyone else expect Mike to know that Al worked on some obscure song by himself in a studio at some point, but Mike indeed knows that there is vault material on Feel Flows that many fans "one day hope to hear" and yet he didn't say a word about it.

Again, if his silence means that there are ongoing talks about the set, then I am completely happy with his silence. But don't be surprised when fans are outraged by Mike not acknowledging a completed set full of vault material that, as of last month, has no scheduled released date.
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« Reply #1180 on: August 20, 2020, 05:33:35 AM »

ESQ seems to be ignoring it ("it" meaning the latest developments, or lack thereof as it were) online as far as I can tell. Disappointing but not surprising. All the more reason to keep the discussion going in all corners that we can.

I find it interesting that those who have aligned more closely with Mike Love in the past aren’t contributing to any sort of solution to the problem that Howie brought forth. “Big” names elsewhere (who closely associate with Mike) haven’t promoted any discussion about the set and certainly haven’t endorsed the petition.

While I possibly get why ESQ wouldn’t get involved, I firmly believe that Don Malcom is right that this is a hill worth taking a stand on. This set is the last major highlight of the band’s musical genius. Now is the time to voice an opinion.

This set could only make more Beach Boys fans. More beach boys fans = more possible subscribers to ESQ. Sharing a petition that casts no blame on any bandmembers, just merely points out that fans want to hear this music, could only help ESQ.

HeyJude, thanks so much for the update on everything.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 05:36:16 AM by rab2591 » Logged

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God must’ve smiled the day Brian Wilson was born!

"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

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« Reply #1181 on: August 20, 2020, 12:29:04 PM »

This set has a Carl Wilson connection, but I'm really posting it to say . . .


https://www.rockcellarmagazine.com/tom-petty-wildflowers-all-the-rest-box-set-details-preorder/


Now that's how you release a box set!! Shocked
« Last Edit: August 20, 2020, 12:31:13 PM by thetojo » Logged
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« Reply #1182 on: August 20, 2020, 04:05:08 PM »


While I possibly get why ESQ wouldn’t get involved, I firmly believe that Don Malcom is right that this is a hill worth taking a stand on. This set is the last major highlight of the band’s musical genius. Now is the time to voice an opinion.


I totally agree - this is the end of a fine period where all members are skilled contributors. Going forward there is no doubt great material yet to be released that would be devoured by fans but the Feel Flows set would mark a real seminal point in the band's career. It would be such a shame were it not to see a worthy release...
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« Reply #1183 on: August 21, 2020, 07:50:45 AM »

ESQ seems to be ignoring it ("it" meaning the latest developments, or lack thereof as it were) online as far as I can tell. Disappointing but not surprising. All the more reason to keep the discussion going in all corners that we can.

I find it interesting that those who have aligned more closely with Mike Love in the past aren’t contributing to any sort of solution to the problem that Howie brought forth. “Big” names elsewhere (who closely associate with Mike) haven’t promoted any discussion about the set and certainly haven’t endorsed the petition.

While I possibly get why ESQ wouldn’t get involved, I firmly believe that Don Malcom is right that this is a hill worth taking a stand on. This set is the last major highlight of the band’s musical genius. Now is the time to voice an opinion.

This set could only make more Beach Boys fans. More beach boys fans = more possible subscribers to ESQ. Sharing a petition that casts no blame on any bandmembers, just merely points out that fans want to hear this music, could only help ESQ.

HeyJude, thanks so much for the update on everything.

I don't understand the whole scene to be honest. It's a petition directed at all parties with no malice or finger-pointing, and the outcome fans are asking for - even if it's just a scheduled or preliminary release date so fans know it's on the schedule - would be a win/win situation for all involved. Instead there is a combination of total silence, some are labeling fans "entitled" in a derogatory way, and others telling fans it's pointless to do such a thing, and Mike deflects a question about archival material in an interview after he signed off on doing this archival set. Yet no alternative is offered for fans who want to let all those parties know they'd want and buy such a set. And yes, if more fans not as invested get into this era of the band through a set like this, I'd think more would buy or subscribe to fan publications like ESQ. Again, a win/win all around. Instead we have the scene where we are now.

I truly don't get it. I guess the best thing to do is keep talking about it? What a debacle.

The petition is up to 701, here's the link if anyone still wants to sign it or forward it to others who would be interested:

http://chng.it/cPXJsqNBKJ
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« Reply #1184 on: August 21, 2020, 08:51:08 AM »

Long-time lurker, first-time poster:

Unlike many of y'all, I don't have any inside connections to the Beach Boys. I never had the honor of getting yelled at by Dr. Landy, and I couldn't pick Rocky Pamplin out of a lineup. I'm just an obsessive weirdo with upwards of $100 burning a hole in my pocket, and I want to spend it on the Feel Flows box set, even if the only new material turns out to be, I don't know, three seconds of Carl saying that he broke a string.

My hunch is that the best way to shake this thing loose is to convince the right people that they can make money off of it. (I don't mean that as a criticism! Fancy box sets are a commercial endeavor, and I doubt they'd exist if not for avarice.) But even if my hunch is correct, I don't know who the right people are, or how to convince them that there's a market.

Here's my question: What's the most effective thing I can do to help? Who needs to hear that us random fans want to buy this thing, and what's the best way to get that message across? I've signed the petition, and I'm glad it's there, but what now? Should I be writing letters to someone at Capitol, and if so, who? Is there some other specific action that I can take to help?
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kennyhasbeenfound
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« Reply #1185 on: August 21, 2020, 11:00:30 AM »

Nice first post!

Is there a specific entity we can barrage with emails?  I signed the petition; but maybe we can hit it another way.
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« Reply #1186 on: August 21, 2020, 11:29:23 AM »

Suppose that we assume a hypothetical price point for what this box might cost. Let's even guess on the higher end. And we get a pledge of 700 or however many people there are (just thus far) to agree to purchase that box set at that price.

Then we add up that hypothetical dollar amount of money, and state what that money would be, which of course would just be a bare minimum amount of money that the record company would be making, I'm sure it would sell far more copies than that.

And then suppose a wealthy member of this board, or a celebrity who is a big fan of the band agrees to match or even double that amount of money as a donation to a pandemic relief charity once the box is released. Could something like that get online traction?

Why would the band or the record company want to turn down money with a dollar amount dangling right before their eyes, and turn down a charity donation of that sort? Neither are good optics.

To me, the most interesting story to write about is that a band has fans who are passionate enough to perhaps do something as crazy as that. And that a band itself would be as crazy to actually need something of that sort in order to maybe, just maybe get great music released. It's all completely batshit crazy. But maybe that crazy odd dysfunction is the story that would cause a writer to want to write about it.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 11:30:36 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
rab2591
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« Reply #1187 on: August 21, 2020, 12:08:34 PM »

Writing letters to Capitol would likely do nothing. Jon Stebbins wrote in this very thread that even the record label wants this set released - they are probably salivating at the $$$ that would be flowing in. If we flooded Capitol with letters saying "We want this set released!" they would probably sadly mutter to themselves "So do we."

And then suppose a wealthy member of this board, or a celebrity who is a big fan of the band agrees to match or even double that amount of money as a donation to a pandemic relief charity once the box is released.

While I'm not in the crowd that thinks Mike playing open air gigs is going to lead to a mass of deaths, I can also shake my head thinking about Beach Boys fans raising money (to get a Beach Boys box set released) to help give aid to people who could have gotten sick due to going to a Beach Boys concert. This band never fails to surprise me.

I think Mike has a net worth of $80 million, Brian has a net worth of $120 million, Al $40 million. These figures could be total BS, and of course this isn't money these guys have in the bank anyways. But it gives you a general idea that these guys aren't even close to being homeless (which is why I find the theory that Brian is forced to tour to make money hilarious, but I digress). Extorting the fans for charity money during a time of financial stress so we can get a boxset released is bad optics for the band...especially when Mike is under fire for playing gigs during COVID and possibly adding to the COVID count.

Anyways, I really wish that someone with a big name associated with the band (Darian, Jason Fine, Brian Wilson himself) would publicly speak out about this.

Keep in mind that a while back Mark Linett apparently said that this set was scheduled to release this Fall. Howie Edelson comes on here last month and says that this set currently has to scheduled release date. This is the time to be doing something. I don't know how much more us fans can do. Actually 702 people signing a petition is a pretty good number, someone who is able to should email Jason Fine with that petition. I wonder if he could get an article written about it.
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« Reply #1188 on: August 21, 2020, 02:20:15 PM »

One aspect of this set that is not really being talked about is the impetus that it could have towards future similar sets in future.

I could imagine a situation where over the next decade we see sort of "twofers on steroids" for the 70s era albums.

So you could see one for So Tough/Holland, another for In Concert (including the full original 1 disc version), one for 15 Big Ones - it would support a 3 disc set, I would think, as would Love You. And then MIU/L.A. Light Album, and KTSA/The Beach Boys. The point is, in ten years time their could be a really special legacy of truly great physical releases, filled out by annual digital only live archive releases as well, but it has to start somewhere - and if this one isn't released, how would you go getting people to put the work into any future release, when there's the very real prospect that someone with enough power to put the kibosh on them won't hesitate to do so.
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« Reply #1189 on: August 21, 2020, 02:26:00 PM »

thetojo, I've been thinking about that as well. If this box set isn't released, then I think that's it for copyright extension box sets. Selling these projects as physical releases isn't easy, and that's with the full support of the band. Even any future digital-only releases will probably be compromised.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 02:29:35 PM by B.E. » Logged

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« Reply #1190 on: August 21, 2020, 02:56:14 PM »

It just dawned on me that seeing as this box that is the first one that has material from the post Capitol years (although I guess there would be some late Capitol era stuff in it also?), perhaps it's not a coincidence that this is the first of these copyright extension sets to have an issue threatening its release. Maybe that could somehow be more than a coincidence.

If it is somehow a member of this band holding out for more money/revenue sharing, could that be the cause of it?

What comes to mind is how a band like Def Leppard for years refused to let their albums be available on streaming platforms, they were stubbornly trying to get a bigger piece of the pie then they felt was being offered to them. So for a number of years, on Spotify, the only versions of some of their songs you could hear were modern day re-recordings (that were actually surprisingly good) which the band owned the rights to and could profit off of in a greater manner that wouldn't have been possible with the revenue sharing for the original recordings. Eventually an agreement was made, and now the entire catalog is there on Spotify and other platforms, but it took years.

Although if it was just as simple as being *solely* this, maybe Mike would have mentioned it in that interview instead of sidestepping the vault material entirely, so maybe I'm wrong. Just throwing ideas out there.

Also, it just dawned on me that perhaps there are disputes over the songwriting credits and percentages on some of the songs. Could that be it?

I would be surprised if throughout this thread, the real reasons haven't been at least partly identified. I think it's got to be some combination of things that have been spoken about here.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2020, 02:58:14 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
rab2591
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« Reply #1191 on: August 21, 2020, 03:30:53 PM »

CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
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"ragegasm" - /rāj • ga-zəm/ : a logical mental response produced when your favorite band becomes remotely associated with the bro-country genre.

Ever want to hear some Beach Boys songs mashed up together like The Beatles' 'LOVE' album? Check out my mix!
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« Reply #1192 on: August 21, 2020, 03:40:24 PM »

CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.

How many outside writers (who are not members of the band) do we know were possibly connected to writing songs from this era? At least in terms of who is known?
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« Reply #1193 on: August 21, 2020, 06:58:06 PM »

Well, the guy who co wrote It's About Time.  (Burchman) The guy who helped Al write Looking at Tomorrow.  (Winfrey?)  Joe Knott.  Shapiro.  Lieber and Stoller.  Jakobson.
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« Reply #1194 on: August 21, 2020, 07:44:41 PM »

Just playing Devin's advocate, but how would letters not help but a petition would?  At least a letter is directly showing up at the target.  IDK.  Just spitballing here.
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« Reply #1195 on: August 21, 2020, 11:03:21 PM »

Fifty years ago today I bought what quickly became my favorite album of all time, and remains so to this day. It’s by the Beach Boys and its title is Sunflower.

So I have a request today for the members of BRI - Brian, Mike, Al, and Carl’s estate. Please get together and come to a quick agreement to get the Feel Flows box set released in time for the 2020 Holiday season.

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« Reply #1196 on: August 22, 2020, 01:15:01 AM »

Well, the guy who co wrote It's About Time.  (Burchman) The guy who helped Al write Looking at Tomorrow.  (Winfrey?)  Joe Knott.  Shapiro.  Lieber and Stoller.  Jakobson.

There was an article a while back about Bob Burchman, the it's about time guy. Was certainly an interesting insight into how the band may treat outside writers. Maybe some are asking for a bigger cut now or felt they were treated unfairly/illegally. Found it here - https://medium.com/@JPRobinson/the-forgotten-song-that-made-the-beach-boys-countercultural-2171d70b94e8
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« Reply #1197 on: August 22, 2020, 08:58:35 AM »

CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
Howie knows. You do not have to wonder about that. No speculation needed. All the other "maybe it's this, or maybe it's that" chatter is useless. Take what Howie said as direct and solid information.
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« Reply #1198 on: August 22, 2020, 09:17:40 AM »

CD, all great points...especially about this being the first post Capitol years release.

It was shared on the EH forum that someone from supedeluxeedition wrote:

"ok phil and everyone. here is the lowdown on why its being delayed/ canceled. there seems to be issues of legality and the final song selection =.the reason being that there were so many different writers of songs at that time.sooo we well have to wait…… and wait …. and wait."

Though as was pointed out, the "final song selection" problem would go against what Howie said about the track listing being already completed. So who knows.
Howie knows. You do not have to wonder about that. No speculation needed. All the other "maybe it's this, or maybe it's that" chatter is useless. Take what Howie said as direct and solid information.

Thanks, Jon. I know all of us here greatly appreciate you and Howie telling us what you can. You had mentioned last month that thing aren’t looking great regarding the problems being worked out...has this outlook changed for the better since you posted that?

Thanks again for coming here and posting.
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« Reply #1199 on: August 22, 2020, 11:39:16 AM »

Yeah, but why sit and wait and accept we don't know anything in silence, when we can speculate randomly for another 30 or 40 pages.
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