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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 92398 times)
guitarfool2002
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« Reply #925 on: July 31, 2020, 09:22:05 PM »

Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 Smiley Smiley

A few factors might disagree with that, although knowing Mike and his touring, who knows.

First - When perhaps the most important archival release since the full box set and Smile Sessions came out, Sunshine Tomorrow, Mike and his band made several nationally televised appearances which included interviews. I believe the biggest was the Washington DC show with John Stamos and Mark McGrath. Instead of giving the release a plug on TV that would reach millions who probably didn't know Sunshine Tomorrow existed yet would be interested, Mike instead focused his marketing and PR and lip service on his horrid Do It Again remake.

He can do whatever he wants, but for f**ks sake, he could have promoted a set with real, archival, mostly unheard Beach Boys music. He did not. Instead he promoted his band and his projects.

Why would he be expected to promote or even tour behind this set when he's done little or nothing to give the previous set a boost, and instead choosing to use his tours and appearances to hawk his own releases? He even found a way to give a copy of "Summer In Paradise" to everyone who bought the GV box set on QVC! Who knows, maybe he's cooked up a way to ride this one to some profits.  Grin

And that leads to #2: I doubt 80-90% of the crowds who go to see Mike's shows would be potential buyers for this set. It's a different focus, different demographic, different kind of fan. Greatest hits versus deep cuts and rarities in a deluxe box. This box set doesn't need Mike's touring to find its audience, the audience for this box is already seeking it out if not demanding it, and being told in Monty Python "Cheese Shop" style..."Sorry, we're fresh out." Or for US viewers, in Seinfeld style..."No soup for you! Next!".

And what I don't understand is Mike would get a lot of cred, a lot of praise, and a lot of positive vibes from a set like this because he did do some fantastic work with the band during this period. Totally separate from what he does now.
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« Reply #926 on: July 31, 2020, 10:51:16 PM »

Don't go near the box set, it's kinda sad,
What's happened to the box set, it's really bad,

 Sad Sad Sad
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thetojo
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« Reply #927 on: August 01, 2020, 12:06:49 AM »


And what I don't understand is Mike would get a lot of cred, a lot of praise, and a lot of positive vibes from a set like this because he did do some fantastic work with the band during this period. Totally separate from what he does now.


This is a really important point. One which has surprised me a little. I've always seen this band as being one, clearly most talented guy, Brian, and then Dennis as second fiddle (he did seem to like to use strings) as perhaps ghe next best songwriter/producer in the bband.Carl next, and then Al and then Mike as a less talented contributor of essentially some good lyrics.

From what I'm hearing about this box, it sounds like it has the potential to change that perception a lot, and to put things on a much mord even footing.

From what Desper as has said over the years, the guys clearly still allowed Brian to take the lead when he wanted to in this period, but obviously the others were contributing more and more. I always envisaged that the contributions came more so from the Wilson brothers and less so from Al, Mike and Bruce, but if we get this box set it seems I might have to revisit my perception of things. That'll be a good thing.

As an aside, and a similar thing, I must say that one of the biggest impacts of the 50th anniversary period was that it meant I had to listen to All This Is That a few more times, and I started to appreciate that song in a way I hadn't before.
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« Reply #928 on: August 01, 2020, 03:02:56 AM »

Let me start by saying that the following is only my personal perception of how things seem to work with The Beach Boys...

If a vault filled with beautiful, previously unheard music was discovered, one possible reaction from the involved parties might be “this is amazingly gorgeous stuff and it needs to be shared, in spite of the fact that my role in making this music was not as great as others in the band.”

Or another reaction could be “this is amazingly gorgeous stuff and it needs to be shared, because my role in making this music was more important than the public realizes.”

Or another reaction could be “this amazingly gorgeous stuff makes  another member of the band seem more important in its making than me, so I don’t like that, so I don’t want it heard.”

Assign band members to the reaction that fits your perception of each...
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« Reply #929 on: August 01, 2020, 06:00:00 AM »

I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.

Right. The work is done by the staff, but the band is not done with the project (even if it is just discussion between them at this point). Know what I mean? They are still working on it. It will come. They just have to iron out some issues. 

I don't want to get bogged down in the semantics of what constitutes "work still to be done", but all indications are that, several release dates having come and gone, what is happening *now* is not a "normal" part of "work" that would be done at this stage. In other words, no, the band doesn't have anything left to do but agree to its release. As far as I've heard, there is no "work" as such left apart from manufacturing/distribution. There are no discussions left about the content of the set from everything we've heard.

And all indications based on insiders and sources in the know is that what has happened with release dates being pushed and the set currently *not* being on the schedule, is not a normal/typical process such a release would follow. This seems to decidedly *not* be a "it will come, they're just doing their thing and it'll be out, it's been planned all along" sort of situation.

Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.
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« Reply #930 on: August 01, 2020, 08:22:21 AM »

Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.

Just playing devil's advocate, on the question who are we to tell Mike how to manage his business: Fans especially online have been trying to tell Brian how to manage his business especially since he went solo in 1998. Everything from telling him he should quit touring and retire since his very first solo tour, to who he should or shouldn't work with on his music and how it should sound, up to suggesting he was being controlled and drugged by "handlers", and so many other facets of his "business". So if they can put the business and career decisions and personal life under the microscope as some did (and still do) with these other band members, isn't it par for the course and fair game across the board?

Again devil's advocate, but in this case the fans are the ones who put these guys into mansions and wealth through buying their product for 60 years, I think like fans who buy a sports team's tickets and merchandise and cable TV packages with their money, they should be able to offer opinions on that team.
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« Reply #931 on: August 01, 2020, 09:11:46 AM »

Not trying to bog down, just saying that agreeing to release is part of their job. One of the biggest parts. I also feel like it's none of our business. Sure we can have opinions and be frustrated, but to take it out on band members seems extreme to me. Even if it is Mike, which some are implying they believe, who are we to tell him how to manage his business? Is he asking for our guidance/opinions? I feel like he has every right to question stuff like this and help position it.

Just playing devil's advocate, on the question who are we to tell Mike how to manage his business: Fans especially online have been trying to tell Brian how to manage his business especially since he went solo in 1998. Everything from telling him he should quit touring and retire since his very first solo tour, to who he should or shouldn't work with on his music and how it should sound, up to suggesting he was being controlled and drugged by "handlers", and so many other facets of his "business". So if they can put the business and career decisions and personal life under the microscope as some did (and still do) with these other band members, isn't it par for the course and fair game across the board?

Again devil's advocate, but in this case the fans are the ones who put these guys into mansions and wealth through buying their product for 60 years, I think like fans who buy a sports team's tickets and merchandise and cable TV packages with their money, they should be able to offer opinions on that team.

To add to this, I think it's also the mark of a healthy fanbase that people are publicly speaking out about a project they want to see released. To be honest, no artist really asks for the opinions and guidance from fans. But what makes a fan a fan is their passion for the artist they support...even if that means some people getting on social media asking for a certain set of songs to be released.

I think it's fair game if people express their opinions to bandmembers on Facebook, petition.org, etc (if they do it in a civil way) about an entity which they have spent thousands of dollars, time, and money on. If fans didn't express their opinions to the members of this band would we even have SMiLE now? I doubt it. If Brian wasn't pushed a bit by Darian to play Heroes and Villains, if Darian didn't help Brian piece together BWPS, we wouldn't have the Smile Sessions right now. And we could say that it was none of Darian's business, that Brian is his own man and had his logical reasons for not wanting to revisit SMiLE material, but Brian seems to be better off because of it, and the world got to experience some of the most creative music to come out of the 1960s.
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« Reply #932 on: August 01, 2020, 09:29:33 AM »


To add to this, I think it's also the mark of a healthy fanbase that people are publicly speaking out about a project they want to see released. To be honest, no artist really asks for the opinions and guidance from fans. But what makes a fan a fan is their passion for the artist they support...even if that means some people getting on social media asking for a certain set of songs to be released.

I think it's fair game if people express their opinions to bandmembers on Facebook, petition.org, etc (if they do it in a civil way) about an entity which they have spent thousands of dollars, time, and money on. If fans didn't express their opinions to the members of this band would we even have SMiLE now? I doubt it. If Brian wasn't pushed a bit by Darian to play Heroes and Villains, if Darian didn't help Brian piece together BWPS, we wouldn't have the Smile Sessions right now. And we could say that it was none of Darian's business, that Brian is his own man and had his logical reasons for not wanting to revisit SMiLE material, but Brian seems to be better off because of it, and the world got to experience some of the most creative music to come out of the 1960s.

That's such a great point.  Last fall when David Leaf had his event at UCLA when he screened his film of Smile's London debut, he introduced it by relating that he had moved to California in the '70s with the express purpose of getting Brian to finish and release Smile.  And Probyn later mentioned how he had taken out an ad in an LA newspaper in the '80s begging Capitol to release Smile.  Darian and Domenic Priore were also present at that event, and who can dismiss their respective contributions to keeping the Smile flame alive?  Smile was, is and always will be about Brian Wilson's music and explosion of creativity in 1966, but does BWPS or the Smile box happen without the decades-long efforts of fans like Leaf, Darian, Probyn and Domenic?   No way.
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« Reply #933 on: August 01, 2020, 09:57:36 AM »

Those are great points - It was the enthusiasm and dedications of the fans that made Smile happen, and I don't think anyone would suggest that the fans and the artists are worse off that we got Brian's completed work both live and on disc alongside the sessions box with the original material.

Important to note how there was a time not too long ago when the idea of fans getting either a completed Smile, an official Capitol release, AND Brian Wilson touring and playing live shows would have been considered pure fantasy, if not impossible. I think the requests, enthusiasm, and support from the fans helped make the impossible a reality.
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« Reply #934 on: August 01, 2020, 10:58:10 AM »

I just hope we don't act too entitled
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« Reply #935 on: August 01, 2020, 01:46:02 PM »

This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?
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« Reply #936 on: August 01, 2020, 02:22:20 PM »

WTF is wrong with them?

They've both got (very different) mental health issues.
Well you asked.
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« Reply #937 on: August 01, 2020, 04:58:34 PM »

This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.
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« Reply #938 on: August 01, 2020, 05:15:47 PM »

This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

I mean, in their defense they said that is the saddest "thread" ever, not that it was the saddest event ever.
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« Reply #939 on: August 01, 2020, 05:45:28 PM »

This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

Yes, well - in Beach Boys message board proportion. And... maybe not even there. Point taken. Goes to show how spoiled I've been in recent years with the copyright releases. I was just really looking forward to this release, and let my guard down in terms of not being able to imagine it being cancelled. For the band to green light the vault clearing of LEID IN HAWAII, the copyright releases for Friends/2020, but not THIS... I was just kind of blindsided. But hey, after a particularly good decade archive wise I really somehow believed this much longer history of dysfunction and bizarre decision making was behind us.
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« Reply #940 on: August 01, 2020, 06:04:30 PM »

Me too. My daughter had been looking forward to the set too. When I told her Jaymie said something like how every time they have a chance to do escape the “Full House and Kokomo lameness “ they “ go and screw it all up as usual “.
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« Reply #941 on: August 01, 2020, 06:42:40 PM »

For the band to green light the vault clearing of LEID IN HAWAII, the copyright releases for Friends/2020, but not THIS... I was just kind of blindsided. But hey, after a particularly good decade archive wise I really somehow believed this much longer history of dysfunction and bizarre decision making was behind us.

This is a good point - it can't possibly be an issue of quality holding this one back - Lei'd in Hawaii is one of their most amateurish performances ever (both the actual live performance and the studio redo) - and they still released that in full. They also put an acapella version of Never Learn Not to Love on the 20/20 set. It'd certainly be weird if a sudden interest in preserving reputation was the reason for this release being stalled.
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« Reply #942 on: August 02, 2020, 07:44:09 AM »

This thread is literally the saddest thread ever. Is there anything we can do to pressure Mike and Brian? It's ridiculous that this isn't being released. WTF is wrong with them?

I'd have thought that the thousands of people dying miserable deaths alone every day is more sad, but yes, not hearing music does push that into second place.

I mean, in their defense they said that is the saddest "thread" ever, not that it was the saddest event ever.

That's exactly what was said. The reply wasn't needed.
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« Reply #943 on: August 02, 2020, 01:04:07 PM »

This is how I see it:
There never was an official announcement for this release, was there? So, no need to get mad that something doesn't get released at this point when it wasn't even announced in the first place.
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« Reply #944 on: August 02, 2020, 01:29:55 PM »

Al and Bruce mentioning it is about as official of an announcement without actually making it IMHO.

Oh well. I’m not nearly as angry as I was the other day; just frustrated and disgusted. But honestly, if the band doesn’t give a sh*t about their legacy, why do we care so much?

As I stated before I really feel bad for those who worked so hard to try to bring this to us, the fans.
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« Reply #945 on: August 02, 2020, 04:41:53 PM »

I waited 40 plus years for Smile so I can wait a few extra months for the box set without getting my knickers in an emotional knot.
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« Reply #946 on: August 02, 2020, 04:49:21 PM »

I waited 40 plus years for Smile so I can wait a few extra months for the box set without getting my knickers in an emotional knot.

Well I would imagine there are some fans worried about possibly compromised immune systems during the COVID era and wouldn’t mind hearing the set sooner rather than later. So getting knickers tied into an emotion knot makes sense to me in those cases.

I can indeed say I’ve been blessed as a new fan (10 years now) to become a fan in such a time when we are drenched in copyright releases, amazing box sets, Brian’s solo output, etc. So I do need to admit that I have a lot to be thankful for. However the Surf’s Up era material has seemingly been a constant hangup for the band (wasn’t there a two-disc set of unreleased material that never really saw the light of day?). I just hope this doesn’t turn into that all over again.

Edit: also people are pissed because the “few extra months” you speak of doesn’t currently exist. This thing has no scheduled release date so we may never see the Feel Flows boxset.
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« Reply #947 on: August 02, 2020, 04:49:55 PM »

Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  Razz
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« Reply #948 on: August 02, 2020, 04:53:34 PM »

Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  Razz

I mean, if a member of the band is pissed that 500 members of an online forum want to spend $120 a piece on this boxset then I don’t know what to say. However I’m sure the hangup is something 70 times more petulant than some annoyed fans.
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« Reply #949 on: August 02, 2020, 06:24:15 PM »

Maybe all the complaining in this thread is what's causing the delay.  Just sayin'...  Razz

I mean, if a member of the band is pissed that 500 members of an online forum want to spend $120 a piece on this boxset then I don’t know what to say. However I’m sure the hangup is something 70 times more petulant than some annoyed fans.

Yup
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