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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 841511 times)
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« Reply #900 on: July 30, 2020, 06:10:50 PM »

Not to get too far off topic, but since the issue of the Love & Mercy music was raised...There was a situation where BRI and all members could make money on mechanical rights, royalties, etc from both the film and soundtrack and subsequent releases on DVD and digital...without lifting a finger, without doing any work, without playing under a tent in Cape Cod in the dead of summer and with 100% humidity...and Mike still objected.

So using the example of Carl's interests siding with Mike's touring issues on the table of BRI, the Love & Mercy soundtrack deal was a case where a "yes" vote from that entity was a recurring payday without doing anything, including for Mike who had ownership interests in some of those songs which would pay out in perpetuity, and yet Mike objected. So the yes vote from the Wilsons was a similar no-brainer unless Mike was able to convince them somehow to vote no based on Mike's personal hang-ups or whatever justification he was using, and obviously they didn't go with Mike for what seems to be a rare 3 to 1 vote.

I loved LOVE & MERCY so much I pre-ordered two BD discs because I was paranoid it would go out of print immediately and I wanted a "backup". I feared MyKe would swoop in with an injunction or something. Probably irrational, but that was my fear. It also lead me, at least in some part, to go see the film fourteen times during its theatrical run. Obviously I loved the film so that was the main reason for my repeat visits to the theater.

And regarding the soundtrack, there was a slight delay in the release. Did we ever find out why? The film realeased on June 5th (2015) but the soundtrack didn't drop until August 14th. Was that Myke's doing as well? Or was that something else? I did note, upon close inspection, that some of the Atticus Ross soundscapes were ever so slightly different on the soundtrack than within the film.
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« Reply #901 on: July 30, 2020, 06:36:23 PM »

Uh...so is this thing actually coming out or not?  Did it get cancelled before it even got officially announced?  Maybe it never existed in the first place!!   Shocked

Seriously though, other than saying it isn't scheduled for release, is it planning to be scheduled for release or are we just speculating on everything??
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« Reply #902 on: July 30, 2020, 06:55:54 PM »


As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?
Don't worry about that comment Howie, thank you for your contributions here.


Amen to that. Seriously, you are a godsend...Beach Boys fans owe you (and Mark, and Alan) a huge debt of gratitude and anybody who doesn't see that isn't a real fan (and possibly need to get their head examined).
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« Reply #903 on: July 30, 2020, 07:16:10 PM »

A couple quick kinda related but still somewhat off-topic questions:

1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?

2. Other than Let Him Run Wild (plus the three above and probably Stevie), has there been anything else that Brian’s vetoed?


As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?
We all appreciate your work, Howie. Thank you for the time you’ve put into the project. I interpreted the above comment as a compliment - dying on the vine is some nice writing.
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« Reply #904 on: July 30, 2020, 07:25:57 PM »


1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?


Yeah, one can see why Carry Me Home was withheld - although I'm pretty sure it was meant to be about Vietnam, the lyrics could be seen as distasteful or at least too raw considering Dennis' passing.

If Brian was embarrassed by Let Him Run Wild enough to strike it off a compilation then I can def imagine a similar situation with My Solution. It's an oddball song and the spoken word is very goofy. Hard to say what was wrong with Thank Him - it's pretty innocuous and presentable as far as I can tell. I don't know the lyrics but if it's supposed to be about God then maybe Brian deems it too personal for release.
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« Reply #905 on: July 30, 2020, 08:02:33 PM »

Uh...so is this thing actually coming out or not?  Did it get cancelled before it even got officially announced?  Maybe it never existed in the first place!!   Shocked

Seriously though, other than saying it isn't scheduled for release, is it planning to be scheduled for release or are we just speculating on everything??
You should go back and read the posts from the last 24 hours.  Saying "maybe it never existed in the first place" tells me you didn't read back too far.
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« Reply #906 on: July 30, 2020, 08:08:01 PM »

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thanks for the post, Jon. This literally makes me want to simultaneously weep and repeatedly bang my head into a table.

This beautiful art needs to be released. All the bandmembers had solid contributions during this time. I'm sure each and every member, living or deceased, will have moments to shine. It doesn't have to be a freakin' contest.

Forget the song "Is Jack Rieley Really Superman"… The real question is "Is Jack Rieley Really Nostradamus?" - and when it comes to his famous, tragic BBs quote, the answer is clearly yes.

I wasn't familiar with the Jack Rieley quote CenturyDeprived's post referenced, so went searching and found the thread containing a copy/paste of a Jack Rieley Q&A that appears to be from 1996. If this set is really held up and the reasons are not logistical, could the answer, even some 50 (petty) years later, be there in his responses concerning the group dynamics and feelings about the Surf's Up material at the time? Am I in the ballpark? Warm? Scalding?

Oh...but in that scenario, it wouldn't make any sense to have greenlit it in the first place and to work so hard on it for the last few years. That'd be really sadistic.
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« Reply #907 on: July 30, 2020, 08:47:20 PM »

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thanks for the post, Jon. This literally makes me want to simultaneously weep and repeatedly bang my head into a table.

This beautiful art needs to be released. All the bandmembers had solid contributions during this time. I'm sure each and every member, living or deceased, will have moments to shine. It doesn't have to be a freakin' contest.

Forget the song "Is Jack Rieley Really Superman"… The real question is "Is Jack Rieley Really Nostradamus?" - and when it comes to his famous, tragic BBs quote, the answer is clearly yes.

I wasn't familiar with the Jack Rieley quote CenturyDeprived's post referenced, so went searching and found the thread containing a copy/paste of a Jack Rieley Q&A that appears to be from 1996. If this set is really held up and the reasons are not logistical, could the answer, even some 50 (petty) years later, be there in his responses concerning the group dynamics and feelings about the Surf's Up material at the time? Am I in the ballpark? Warm? Scalding?

Oh...but in that scenario, it wouldn't make any sense to have greenlit it in the first place and to work so hard on it for the last few years. That'd be really sadistic.


This is the quote, which is sadly way, way accurate. Freakishly so. This quote is to the beach boys what the movie Idiocracy is to current times. Spot-on accurate, Nostradamus-esque prediction:


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

- Jack Rieley
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« Reply #908 on: July 30, 2020, 08:52:34 PM »


1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?


Yeah, one can see why Carry Me Home was withheld - although I'm pretty sure it was meant to be about Vietnam, the lyrics could be seen as distasteful or at least too raw considering Dennis' passing.

If Brian was embarrassed by Let Him Run Wild enough to strike it off a compilation then I can def imagine a similar situation with My Solution. It's an oddball song and the spoken word is very goofy. Hard to say what was wrong with Thank Him - it's pretty innocuous and presentable as far as I can tell. I don't know the lyrics but if it's supposed to be about God then maybe Brian deems it too personal for release.

Funny, since Brian has brought "My Solution" from depths a surprising number of times. He mentioned it being a track on an early version of Love You in the 1976 Bob Harris interview, he cut a new track for it in 1980 as a part of the "Song Within A Song" medley with a new "Shortenin' Bread" track, and he recycled it for the opening of "Happy Days" on Imagination of all albums. It'd be a bit out of character for him to feel embarrassed about releasing it, but of course maybe his feelings about it have since changed. And I always figured that "Thank Him" was simply too murky of a recording quality wise for it to be part of the MIC box set, and so it got put on The Big Beat 1963 digital set where that wasn't much of an issue.
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« Reply #909 on: July 30, 2020, 09:58:18 PM »


As the official BRI consultant, I was asked my opinion throughout and consulted with brains and heart.
I got the box green-lit by the label.
I saved it from dying on the vine TWICE.


Howie your wordplay makes Van Dyke Parks look like a grade-schooler - impressed with what you've done there.

How is this "wordplay"?
Who else is coming here and telling you about this box set and being as straight as possible?

TBH, I’m pretty sure the VDP reference was meant as a compliment. Would be disappointed if it wasn’t.
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« Reply #910 on: July 31, 2020, 12:37:13 AM »

For some reason I took it as vine as in “Hollywood & Vine” aka Capitol Records, referring to all those he hard work that went into it.

Which is why our voices need to be heard. Not just for us fans, but for those who worked tirelessly behind the scenes to try to ensure the band’s legacy is what it deserves to be. Sadly, such a legacy hasn’t been as important to the band through the years, as Jack Rieley had eloquently stated, which is what angers me as a fan and as a fellow musician.

Trust me when I say I understand the work that goes into compiling a set of such magnitude. My band is doing the same for our 20th next year and when you have a huge amount of recordings to go through, it can become quite cumbersome albeit fun. Trying to sort things through when dates may not have been kept as meticulously? Yeah that’s a pain in the ass. Now (and this doesn’t apply to us thank God) you have to ensure all egos are satisfied. Then there’s getting it approved by the label? For that to go to naught would be a crime.
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« Reply #911 on: July 31, 2020, 12:43:01 AM »


1. I haven’t listened to these three yet, but it was discussed earlier in this thread that at least three (obviously more but I’m curious about these) were rejected from MiC by one or more members of BRI: Thank Him, My Solution, and Carry Me Home. While I definitely understand as I know the lyrical content of Carry Me Home, what was wrong with the other two?


Yeah, one can see why Carry Me Home was withheld - although I'm pretty sure it was meant to be about Vietnam, the lyrics could be seen as distasteful or at least too raw considering Dennis' passing.

If Brian was embarrassed by Let Him Run Wild enough to strike it off a compilation then I can def imagine a similar situation with My Solution. It's an oddball song and the spoken word is very goofy. Hard to say what was wrong with Thank Him - it's pretty innocuous and presentable as far as I can tell. I don't know the lyrics but if it's supposed to be about God then maybe Brian deems it too personal for release.

Funny, since Brian has brought "My Solution" from depths a surprising number of times. He mentioned it being a track on an early version of Love You in the 1976 Bob Harris interview, he cut a new track for it in 1980 as a part of the "Song Within A Song" medley with a new "Shortenin' Bread" track, and he recycled it for the opening of "Happy Days" on Imagination of all albums. It'd be a bit out of character for him to feel embarrassed about releasing it, but of course maybe his feelings about it have since changed. And I always figured that "Thank Him" was simply too murky of a recording quality wise for it to be part of the MIC box set, and so it got put on The Big Beat 1963 digital set where that wasn't much of an issue.

With Brian you never know. I mean, the guy actually dug City Blues out of mothballs from the cocaine sessions and redid that so anything is possible 😏
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« Reply #912 on: July 31, 2020, 09:58:36 AM »

I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.

Right. The work is done by the staff, but the band is not done with the project (even if it is just discussion between them at this point). Know what I mean? They are still working on it. It will come. They just have to iron out some issues. 
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« Reply #913 on: July 31, 2020, 11:56:57 AM »

I'm honestly not worried.  It will come out eventually - even this year.  I'm not going to sit and speculate endlessly on the conspiracy behind it.  It could even come down to one measly track being pulled/kept.
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« Reply #914 on: July 31, 2020, 11:57:19 AM »

similar thing happening with a recently-announced Thelonious Monk release. an unheard concert from 1968 was unveiled in June and scheduled to be released today, but has now been held up indefinitely due to a dispute between the Monk estate and his former record label. we even got to see what it looked like. so disappointing

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« Reply #915 on: July 31, 2020, 12:23:33 PM »

I was very much looking forward to that Monk release.

Hope we'll get some answers on Feel Flows soon. If I've learned anything as a fan of the Beach Boys, it's to not be surprised by the drama.
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« Reply #916 on: July 31, 2020, 12:38:42 PM »

^ and to consistently attempt to piss away their legacy by making the absolute dumbest decisions at the worst possible time
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« Reply #917 on: July 31, 2020, 12:56:17 PM »

Uh...so is this thing actually coming out or not?  Did it get cancelled before it even got officially announced?  Maybe it never existed in the first place!!   Shocked

Seriously though, other than saying it isn't scheduled for release, is it planning to be scheduled for release or are we just speculating on everything??
You should go back and read the posts from the last 24 hours.  Saying "maybe it never existed in the first place" tells me you didn't read back too far.

I actually did look through it.  And I was making a joke about it not existing (hence the "Seriously though" line that followed).  Other than a lot of predictable bickering it doesn't seem clear if this is actually coming out or has been cancelled. 
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« Reply #918 on: July 31, 2020, 01:08:48 PM »

I don't mean to sound like a dick here, but is everyone arguing over something the band is still working on? I mean, staffers have completed their work and word got out, but the band is still officially working on it. The issue here is not on the band side but in the hands of fans who are frustrated due to the inside info they have received. Seems to me it's fine to be frustrated, but otherwise it's none of our business. Or maybe I missed something...


The set is done. Nobody is working on it. It has been sitting there ready to release for some time. However many pages back: It's mixed, mastered, liners and packaging and art all done. It just needs to be manufactured and allowed to be released. *All* the hard work has been done. All that's left is for the band to bring in some dough and bask in the glow, and for fans and music press to drop their jaws.

If fans didn't know about the existence of the set, they'd have nothing to lobby/advocate for.

Right. The work is done by the staff, but the band is not done with the project (even if it is just discussion between them at this point). Know what I mean? They are still working on it. It will come. They just have to iron out some issues. 

I don't want to get bogged down in the semantics of what constitutes "work still to be done", but all indications are that, several release dates having come and gone, what is happening *now* is not a "normal" part of "work" that would be done at this stage. In other words, no, the band doesn't have anything left to do but agree to its release. As far as I've heard, there is no "work" as such left apart from manufacturing/distribution. There are no discussions left about the content of the set from everything we've heard.

And all indications based on insiders and sources in the know is that what has happened with release dates being pushed and the set currently *not* being on the schedule, is not a normal/typical process such a release would follow. This seems to decidedly *not* be a "it will come, they're just doing their thing and it'll be out, it's been planned all along" sort of situation.
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« Reply #919 on: July 31, 2020, 01:12:28 PM »

I'm honestly not worried.  It will come out eventually - even this year.  I'm not going to sit and speculate endlessly on the conspiracy behind it.  It could even come down to one measly track being pulled/kept.

Like 27 posts now have specifically mentioned that the tracklisting/content of the set is *not* an issue. It has already been mixed/mastered, and they'd only mix and master the set once the track listing is ironed out. Further, in the realm of "anything is possible" if you're for some reason determined to believe like one track veto could be holding this up, we've had specific mention from sources that content/packaging/COVID, none of that is the reason this set isn't on the calendar.
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« Reply #920 on: July 31, 2020, 01:24:32 PM »

... and if tracks are veto'd, they would just kill those tracks to get the project moving.

I don't get the talk of "I'm sure it will come out" either - that's like saying, "I'm sure they'll do a lavish box set for Holland and Brian is Back" - sure, these things could happen, but people who are involved in this have told us this is not scheduled for release. That is a very difference statement than something like "the release date has not been set". Not scheduled for release means, in no uncertain terms, there is no release planned - currently. We are not speculating as to when this will be released. We are speculating as to whether or not this will actually be released at all. Currently, the answer seems to be it will not be released. There is no conspiracy. Howie posted that the set is not scheduled for release. I think we can take that at face value.
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« Reply #921 on: July 31, 2020, 08:04:35 PM »

Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 Smiley Smiley
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« Reply #922 on: July 31, 2020, 08:08:38 PM »

sorry for the repeating... the message board doesn't like me this evening....
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« Reply #923 on: July 31, 2020, 08:24:16 PM »

Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 Smiley Smiley

I'd dig it, but I don't think there's any universe in which he'd do that. I don't know if he likes a lot of this material all that much from that Jack Rieley Q&A I was reading. Also, it's not his group's image or their bread and butter. Just a cursory glance at their setlists, and it seems that the only post Pet Sounds/Good Vibrations tracks they regularly play are Bruce's Disney Girls, sometimes Darlin', Sail On Sailor, It's OK, Getcha Back, and of course, Kokomo.
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« Reply #924 on: July 31, 2020, 09:19:43 PM »

Now maybe I'm simplifying this too much, but what if the delay is something as simple as Mike holding back the release until the pandemic is over.
   He can tour then with the release to support? As a man fairly competent in business, could an argument be made that the Beach Boys would make their return tour from the pandemic a Feel Flows Tour?

kind of makes sense considering all the work already done...

 Smiley Smiley

It's quite possible that could be part of the thinking to hold the release for 2021. I mean, technically SURF'S UP and "Feel Flows" was both recorded* & released in calendar year 1971 and next year would be the 50th.

And, apologies if it has already been mentioned (I'm certain it likely has) but the Peter Jackson LET IT BE (Beatles) documentary was pushed to 2021 – most definitely due to the Covid-19 related "market constraints".

Anything is possible.

* Surf's Up (the song) tracks back to 1966
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