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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 841471 times)
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« Reply #725 on: July 29, 2020, 12:49:58 PM »

If you weren't there in the Wilson's garage watching them write Surfin', can you really claim to be a fan?
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« Reply #726 on: July 29, 2020, 12:51:39 PM »

If you weren't there in the Wilson's garage watching them write Surfin', can you really claim to be a fan?
It was written in their living room
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« Reply #727 on: July 29, 2020, 12:53:57 PM »

I’m going to ask this again...how long have you been a fan?
I could tell you that I’ve been there since the very first single, or I could tell you that I’ve only become a fan in the last month. But either way, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re not entitled to the set, you were never promised the set, and the only people who are justified in their anger are the people who worked on it.
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« Reply #728 on: July 29, 2020, 01:00:09 PM »

^Thats what I thought. Knew you weren’t going to answer.

There was a reason I was asking but the way you worded that proved my point anyway.
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« Reply #729 on: July 29, 2020, 01:05:17 PM »

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.
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« Reply #730 on: July 29, 2020, 01:07:09 PM »

I’m going to ask this again...how long have you been a fan?
I could tell you that I’ve been there since the very first single, or I could tell you that I’ve only become a fan in the last month. But either way, it doesn’t change the fact that you’re not entitled to the set, you were never promised the set, and the only people who are justified in their anger are the people who worked on it.

I've been following and been a part of a number of fandoms online for about 25 years, and I think it's time to retire the straw man argument that the band (or whatever the product/thing is) "doesn't owe you anything."

Nobody thinks they're legally or otherwise entitled to anything. Nobody is saying the band HAS to release anything. Fans are saying they WANT something, and they're also offering the band the advice that it is in EVERYONE'S best interest to release stuff.

The band can do whatever they want, and fans can react however they want. If a fan throws their hands up in the air because the band doesn't seem to care about them, that's entirely their prerogative. Frankly, if a band member sees a fan who is disenchanted by such things, their response in my opinion shouldn't be "I don't owe you anything", it should be to look into why fans are disenchanted and what can be done.
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« Reply #731 on: July 29, 2020, 01:10:02 PM »

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.


THANK YOU Jon. That’s why I was asking in the first place before I got that snide little reply.

I mean, sh*t, there’s those of us who know more that can’t say anything about it. In this case, I don’t, but there have other times I have been sworn to secrecy and couldn’t say anything, and it looks (to me anyway) that the thing that is holding this box back is the same thing.

Entitled my ass.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:12:37 PM by ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

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« Reply #732 on: July 29, 2020, 01:11:46 PM »

In the nature of being the kind of guy I am and not holding back - here’s my take:

*There is no way the effort and time would have been put into this for 2 years, without Capitol backing it 100%. As far as I can interpret, Howie confirmed that none of the business-related reasons were holding this up.

*There is no “delay”. This has been cancelled, or at the very least does not have a release date. If this were not to be released in summer, it would have been slated for release in November. If it is to be released in November, that would need to be planned and set now. If it is not to be released by end of year, it will not be released because the 1970 tracks will need to come out as copyright extensions.

*Mike is the logical reason why this is held up. The only reasoning I can guess is a major box set covering this period does not jibe with his branding of what "the group" is today. I hope I’m wrong on this, and this is not Mike-bashing - not my style there either. But I don’t see Carl’s sons blocking this, Al & Bruce seem to have been enthusiastic, and Brian could only benefit from the box. Sorry, but I don’t see anything else that could be happening here, but would be happy to be completely incorrect. But someone needs to come out and say it - and I’m not a Mike-basher, so I’ll be the one to say it.

The question then becomes: can one member veto the thing? I think releases have to be unanimous? If not, then this means *two* members veto’d it. Weird.

*unless there is some continued quibbling about track listing, mixes, etc. Could be there - not meaning to put it on Mike entirely, but history would seem to suggest that is most likely the deal here. I suppose Al also might have a tendency to be more concerned about how things are presented as well.

« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:19:27 PM by DonnyL » Logged

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« Reply #733 on: July 29, 2020, 01:15:42 PM »

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thank you!

And to the point of Billy asking how long someone else has been a fan, I know the point is not to say that you're only a fan if you've put X number of years in. The point is that it would seem you'd have either be a very, very new fan or you'd have to have lived in a bubble for half a century to be so incredulous as to think this boxed set is being held up by COVID or packaging, or that it's all on track and part of some master plan. This especially makes no sense when multiple credible people have specifically told you the set is not being held up due to COVID or packaging, and that release dates being pushed means what's happening right now is *not* part of a master plan.

Following up on what Jon said, this band has a unique skill for snapping defeat from the jaws of victory.

Everybody else is lined up and has already done their work or is ready to. The team that put the set together did their thing, which we know will be top notch and amazing. The label is willing to put it out. Fans have their wallets ready.

We're not asking the guys to go back and write another Pet Sounds. We're telling them "you already made five more Pet Sounds, and we'll buy them from you, and releasing the stuff will make everybody realize you were and are *all* musical geniuses."
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« Reply #734 on: July 29, 2020, 01:17:41 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder
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« Reply #735 on: July 29, 2020, 01:18:23 PM »

Who can we start writing to to apply pressure?
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« Reply #736 on: July 29, 2020, 01:22:03 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

You're out of your depth on this one. It's okay to just back away. You have the guy who writes the liners and consults on these sets telling you what's going on. To continue to disagree is just trolling frankly.
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« Reply #737 on: July 29, 2020, 01:22:18 PM »

.
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« Reply #738 on: July 29, 2020, 01:23:28 PM »

Who can we start writing to to apply pressure?

Capital Records / BRI.
If it is Mike, writing to him will do nothing. Remember, this is the same guy who refused to budge on a trophy hunting event. and that was with main stream media scrutiny. I don’t think he’s gonna have any reaction to a couple fans sending him some angry letters and emails
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« Reply #739 on: July 29, 2020, 01:26:38 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:27:47 PM by ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

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« Reply #740 on: July 29, 2020, 01:28:21 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

You're out of your depth on this one. It's okay to just back away. You have the guy who writes the liners and consults on these sets telling you what's going on. To continue to disagree is just trolling frankly.
That was a joke. There was actually A famous hip-hop group who did that. They announced an album, and said that it was finished, and it got a lot of media attention. And instead of releasing it to the public, they sold it to the highest bidder at 2.5 million dollars. that album still hasn’t been heard by the public. The original bidder still has it, and it’s been almost 8 years. It wouldn’t surprise me if the Beach boys would do something like that.
But no, I’m pretty sure that the reason for the delay has something to do with the bandmembers. And as I’ve stated, if they don’t want it released, then it shouldn’t be released. At the end of the day, the final decision should be left up to the original creators of the music.
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« Reply #741 on: July 29, 2020, 01:32:08 PM »

Taking a page from current events, time to protest M&B shows until it released. OSD needs a bullhorn..... Evil
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« Reply #742 on: July 29, 2020, 01:32:30 PM »

I find it amazing reading through this thread that so many people have learned nothing about this band's fatal flaw...which historically is of course themselves. And definitely not all of them. Howie laid it all out for you in big flashing letters, but some people are still stumbling around, confused, wondering if it's Covid-19, or marketing, or the label that's holding this up. Jesus, c'mon people. Look at the f'n history of this band. Read Howie's posts because he knows everything. He can't name names because he's a professional with bridges intact and trying his best to keep them that way. This box could have been released months ago. It could have a solid release date right now. It's ready. We want it. The label wants it. But that can't happen because the circular firing squad is doing their thing ...again. It's often a one or two man circular firing squad BTW. People have written chapters in book's about it. Maybe this will get worked out, it doesn't look great right now. But if you wonder why? Look at the history of the band, the answer is obvious. Finding a way to f*** up a beautiful thing. It's in the DNA of the Beach Boys.

Thanks for the post, Jon. This literally makes me want to simultaneously weep and repeatedly bang my head into a table.

This beautiful art needs to be released. All the bandmembers had solid contributions during this time. I'm sure each and every member, living or deceased, will have moments to shine. It doesn't have to be a freakin' contest.

Forget the song "Is Jack Rieley Really Superman"… The real question is "Is Jack Rieley Really Nostradamus?" - and when it comes to his famous, tragic BBs quote, the answer is clearly yes.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:34:29 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #743 on: July 29, 2020, 01:34:05 PM »

I mean... do Howie's recent posts really read like the words of a guy who knows this isn't just in limbo, but 'cancelled'?

"While doing the liners for the upcoming box set"

"I CANNOT wait for you all to hear this thing"

Not until today’s post, no. I’d heard “rumors” but didn’t take them seriously until toda
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« Reply #744 on: July 29, 2020, 01:34:15 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled
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« Reply #745 on: July 29, 2020, 01:39:36 PM »

Billy bought smiley smile during the SIP era... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #746 on: July 29, 2020, 01:39:36 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled

You should change your name to “septic tank” , because that post was completely full of sh*t.

Hey, Alan, Howie...your work on the set means nothing...you’re entitled too, because someone on a message board said so! Ya know, I could pick up the phone and call Stephen Desper and tell him his original work meant nothing either. I wonder if he is entitled.
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« Reply #747 on: July 29, 2020, 01:40:53 PM »

For the record, if Mike is the reason why this set is being delayed, there most certainly will be some level of positive reevaluation of his contributions to the band if there are various deep dive versions of "All I Wanna Do" on the set.

His underrated contributions to that song could theoretically get him new artistic cred, much in the way that he gained such after the "sunshine tomorrow" set was released - it made people including myself realize that he had some great stuff to offer during that time period which perhaps wasn't getting proper attention.

Just AIWD, just one song alone was a quantum leap for the band. Further exploration of that song, and the era in which it was birthed helps the legacy everyone in the band.

There's no doubt in my mind that every single member of the band will have moments to shine, but this is a particularly big one. And there aren't many other moments post 1970 during the history of the band where Mike could shine like this (and get positive reevaluation artistic cred) amongst the faction of fans that otherwise might not give him the time of day.

Plus, even the meat and potatoes fans of the band in general could appreciate this song more. Every time I've ever played it for any ordinary friends of mine, they are consistently blown away.

Bottom line, this box set undoubtedly will help *Mike's* legacy, *and* the legacy of the band.
« Last Edit: July 29, 2020, 01:48:09 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #748 on: July 29, 2020, 01:42:56 PM »

To put an even finer point on this, I think the band members need to realize how pure and positive this era and this release would be.

There's no villain in the story of "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up"; there's no controversies. I mean, anybody can conjure negativity up if they try hard enough.

But this is an era where *everybody* in the band was not only showing up, but hitting great peaks and all displaying their talent. Bruce integrating more than he ever had, and turning in his best work. Al co-writing with the other guys and doing great vocals, and turning in stuff that only Al could have contributed (nobody else would have done "Lookin' at Tomorrow"; it's a great alternative vibe for the band), Carl and Dennis writing some of their best stuff. And Mike turns in some of the best gems of his career in this era. "All I Wanna Do" is momentous.

This is the band rolling up their sleeves and doing amazing work, of which they have largely gone unrecognized all these years. This stuff might as well be their "Smile." And that's just the *released* material. The archival, previously-unreleased material amps this up a million fold. Unlike other bands who do archival packages who end up relegated to faking "outtakes" by doing the "Alternate Mix with 10% less Flugelhorn", this band has albums worth of life-affirming, jaw-dropping material. It truly puts any other band's unreleased archive to shame. And it CHANGES the story, for the masses anyway.

And sets like this would pave the way for further reassessments of other eras/albums.  There truly is stuff even from the 80s and 90s that we haven't heard that would change the story as well.

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« Reply #749 on: July 29, 2020, 01:44:24 PM »

Or maybe, and hear me out, you might be all wrong. There might be an even bigger plan. A plan that you or I have never even thought of.
Maybe there’s one copy of the set out there somewhere, and their plan is to sell it to the highest bidder

Why are you discounting what Jon is saying? Do you even know who he is?!

Gonna break it down for you.,.an “honored guest “ on the board is either someone who is affiliated with the band or has been at one point , in one way or another. They’re not “entitled fans”. 

It ok to admit there might be those of us who know just a little bit more than you. It’s ok to admit you’re wrong.
I personally don’t care who they are. Unless their name is Brian Wilson, Mike love, Al Jardine, or Bruce Johnston, Then my point still stands. Entitled fans are entitled

You should change your name to “septic tank” , because that post was completely full of sh*t.

Hey, Alan, Howie...your work on the set means nothing...you’re entitled too, because someone on a message board said so! Ya know, I could pick up the phone and call Stephen Desper and tell him his original work meant nothing either. I wonder if he is entitled.
I never said their work was not important, however, they should not have the final say on what happens to the set. That’s the thing about modifying other peoples art, you have to have the original creators permission. And clearly, in this case, the original creators of the music are not giving their permission.
This is the same reason why albums released after people die bother me as well. They didn’t have a say in if the public heard that or not
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