Feel Flows box set

[Shady]

The reality is, if this thing is coming out in July and they do in fact wait till the very last minute to announce it, make pre orders available and promote it then that is their own loss because it will impact the sales.

If we don't hear anything by the 24th of this month then they dropped the ball

[guitarfool2002]

Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.

I can say with certainty (and I still have the magazine) that an announcement of *both* a Pet Sounds and Smile "sessions" boxsets was published in late 1994 or 95. As the next few years went by, the Smile set fell off the music press radar entirely, but the talk of the PS set was seen in magazines and fanzines (as HeyJude said) and whatever early versions of dial-up internet mailing lists were happening. And it also felt like they kept delaying and delaying its release, but no reasons were given at least in the articles I remember reading. Then when it was on the cusp of release, and it felt like this was finally happening, it got delayed again. And later, word leaked out that a copy of the booklet notes and essays was either accidentally or deliberately sent to Mike Love, and he vetoed it based on the content and tone of those essays. So he wrote an essay too, and that's what was included in the package. And then it came out, and I remember buying it.

So anyone can decide if that's what happened, and if Mike's objections did scupper the release for a bit, but that was the scuttlebutt going around. I doubt anyone would confirm that now, or maybe they would...

[thetojo]

I remember that scuttlebutt, and I'd say it was probably accurate in my estimation.

But now I pray to a new god, this one's called Iconic Artists Group!

[CenturyDeprived]

Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.

Wow, I learn something new every day on this board that I didn't know before. Had no idea the stereo remix had leaked a full year before its official release! That had to have both been awesome as well as anticlimactic for the actual release, all things considered. Yet I'm sure minds were still massively blown by all the other bonus tracks that hadn't leaked.

Seeing as the PSS was "pulled from release very late in the game", were booklets ever printed and discarded that didn't pass Mike's barometer? Or maybe the kibosh was put just before anything hit the printing press? Almost makes it seem like it could've been another situation with the SMiLE LP covers that were junked.

Which spins off another question - I wonder what the furthest (other than SMiLE and PSS) that any release has gotten to coming out by this band, before getting killed and junked. I guess Sweet Insanity is another. Although I'm talking about something where something was printed in anticipation of release, but then changed at the last minute.

[Rocker]

Then when it was on the cusp of release, and it felt like this was finally happening, it got delayed again. And later, word leaked out that a copy of the booklet notes and essays was either accidentally or deliberately sent to Mike Love, and he vetoed it based on the content and tone of those essays. So he wrote an essay too, and that's what was included in the package.

Wouldn't he have access to the whole thing anyway? I'd think that it couldn't be released without each member giving his ok.
The release of the Pet Sounds Sessions and the non-release of the 90s Smile set, as well as - if I'm not mistaken - the Beach Boys rejecting the Grammy for Pet Sounds as "Album of the Century" in '99/'00 are still mysteries to me. Especially the latter sounds like the dumbest idea anyone could ever have. Why did they do that?

[HeyJude]

The band members would have had to sign off on all aspects of the PS box. I don't remember hearing that Mike like *accidentally* got access to the liner notes; I think he and all band members were presented with the set at some point.

I recall a story of Carl (and presumably the other band members) being presented with the set (at least, the audio contents) while out on tour. My impression all those years ago was that the set had been compiled with little or no involvement of band members outside of Brian, and I'm not sure how much knowledge they had of the set in the early stages. But it also wasn't a case of hiding anything from them, as they had to sign off on the thing. As I've previously mentioned, perhaps in another thread, I recall hearing that Carl initially had some concerns/objections about aspects of the stereo remix, specifically the noticeable and unavoidable differences (all those missing vocals and other bits in the mono mix done during mixdown that aren't on the multitracks). At some point, if he didn't already know the reasons for those differences, he was informed, and obviously at some point he signed off on it.

I got the impression from one insider back in the late 90s that the band generally was a bit circumspect regarding the set, perhaps in part because so much about it was so Brian-centric. The presentation was Brian-centric, and the compilation process of the set was too. But obviously, these things were unavoidable. The album is very much a Brian deal, and it's not like they had the time or interest while touring all year to sit in the studio to oversee a boxed set.

You also have to remember that some of the band members were wary of David Leaf going all the way back to the 80s when Leaf released his book. Leaf's approach to writing about the band was not exactly always extra sympathetic to the other band members. So when Leaf's liners on the PS set were unavoidable also very Brian-centric, it's not surprising it might have put some band members off. As I've mentioned before, note that while the PS set came out, Leaf never again wrote liner notes for a BRI-sanctioned Beach Boys release.

I think even by 1996, there was still residual distrust or wariness from the band regarding Brian in relation to the Landy stuff and specifically the "autobiography" from 1991. I think that's one of the reasons that for several years *after* being extracted from Landy, Brian still didn't do any live shows with the Beach Boys.

As for "Feel Flows", I would advise folks to continue to stay pumped and excited. I'm hearing all good things.

[guitarfool2002]

I remember reading the blurb about Mike getting sent the notes and essays "accidentally" in a magazine somewhere back in the day...no clue what it was and it could have been the author's own take on it. But yes, it did come out later that the essays originally in the package were the reason Mike objected and the reason he got an essay in the set. Draw your own conclusions.

As far as the set being too "Brian-centric" in the eyes of some band members...well, that's just plain ridiculous for obvious reasons. I'll leave it at that. 

Funny how things work...That video of Brian playing the Topanga gig from '96 which surfaced this month has a piece of the PS Sessions timeline history included there too. If you click on this link to that June 8th '96 video, you'll hear them talking about the PS box being delayed, and a possible Fall '96 release date in the works. That of course didn't happen either...it was Fall '97, November '97 to be exact, when that came out as we know. I also remember it well because I had just moved back to Boston to play in a band, and was living in Cambridge while the Louise Woodward trial was in full force there. And I bought the PS box the day it came out that November. Still one of the best box sets ever released, hands down.

So yes, the delays we were describing earlier in this thread were being reported and followed by fans and the music community at the time, and just when we all thought it was coming out, it would get delayed again as this concert video also shows. Check out the video, at 9 minutes in:

https://youtu.be/1ITOSw-PzPA?t=537

[juggler]

 I too bought the P.S. box on release day, 1997...  Borders, University Avenue, Palo Alto.   You know, it was kind of fun as a 20something to buy something like that in a store.    Getting it as the umpteenth delivery of the year from Amazon.com is pretty ho-hum in comparison. 

 And, yes, I know it's possible to support independent record stores, and I do try to do that when possible.  But it's a whole different thing now.  When the P.S. box was released on that November day in 1997, i went to Borders in the late afternoon and they had a stack of a couple dozen of 'em.  I hadn't ordered anything  I hadn't called ahead to make sure they were carrying it.  I just expected that they'd have a bunch of them, and, of course, they did.  If and when the Feel Flows box drops, is there any independent retailer (or even surviving chain like Barnes & Noble) where I'd feel confident I can just show up on release day and expect to buy one?  I don't think so.

[Greg Parry]

I too bought the P.S. box on release day, 1997...  Borders, University Avenue, Palo Alto.   You know, it was kind of fun as a 20something to buy something like that in a store.    Getting it as the umpteenth delivery of the year from Amazon.com is pretty ho-hum in comparison. 

 And, yes, I know it's possible to support independent record stores, and I do try to do that when possible.  But it's a whole different thing now.  When the P.S. box was released on that November day in 1997, i went to Borders in the late afternoon and they had a stack of a couple dozen of 'em.  I hadn't ordered anything  I hadn't called ahead to make sure they were carrying it.  I just expected that they'd have a bunch of them, and, of course, they did.  If and when the Feel Flows box drops, is there any independent retailer (or even surviving chain like Barnes & Noble) where I'd feel confident I can just show up on release day and expect to buy one?  I don't think so.

I had the opposite experience with the '93 set. Nowhere had it on release day, except a tiny little independent shop about 10 miles from me who had only one or two copies if I remember correctly.

I only found this shop by the good old Yellow Pages. Does it make my story even more antiquated to note that the phone I was using to ring round on probably had a rotary dial?

I didn't drive them, so this was a bus journey. The anticipation on the way there doubled on the journey back as I read the track listing and liner notes. Then a wonderful afternoon  spent listening to this very best of boxed sets. Brilliantly compiled, beautifully mastered and presented, the previously unreleased material sparkled like generously sprinkled gems amongst the more familiar material. Each CD had it's own mood, and told it's own story like four separate concept albums. This set was the soundtrack of that summer.

I was 21 but the memory of this day is so clear. My then girlfriend wasn't happy as I spent a sizable chunk of our holiday (vacation) money on the set. She soon changed her tune when we reached the Smile stuff! Happy happy times.

[juggler]

I too bought the P.S. box on release day, 1997...  Borders, University Avenue, Palo Alto.   You know, it was kind of fun as a 20something to buy something like that in a store.    Getting it as the umpteenth delivery of the year from Amazon.com is pretty ho-hum in comparison.  

 And, yes, I know it's possible to support independent record stores, and I do try to do that when possible.  But it's a whole different thing now.  When the P.S. box was released on that November day in 1997, i went to Borders in the late afternoon and they had a stack of a couple dozen of 'em.  I hadn't ordered anything  I hadn't called ahead to make sure they were carrying it.  I just expected that they'd have a bunch of them, and, of course, they did.  If and when the Feel Flows box drops, is there any independent retailer (or even surviving chain like Barnes & Noble) where I'd feel confident I can just show up on release day and expect to buy one?  I don't think so.

I had the opposite experience with the '93 set. Nowhere had it on release day, except a tiny little independent shop about 10 miles from me who had only one or two copies if I remember correctly.

I only found this shop by the good old Yellow Pages. Does it make my story even more antiquated to note that the phone I was using to ring round on probably had a rotary dial?

I didn't drive them, so this was a bus journey. The anticipation on the way there doubled on the journey back as I read the track listing and liner notes. Then a wonderful afternoon  spent listening to this very best of boxed sets. Brilliantly compiled, beautifully mastered and presented, the previously unreleased material sparkled like generously sprinkled gems amongst the more familiar material. Each CD had it's own mood, and told it's own story like four separate concept albums. This set was the soundtrack of that summer.

I was 21 but the memory of this day is so clear. My then girlfriend wasn't happy as I spent a sizable chunk of our holiday (vacation) money on the set. She soon changed her tune when we reached the Smile stuff! Happy happy times.

Ah, rotary phones... my late grandma hung to hers until like '98, I think.   We're the same age, but In '93, I couldn't afford the GV: 30 years box.  In school with no job, I literally did not have $70 to spare.   I had read the reviews and knew about the Smile-track centerpiece, and I was intrigued... but broke. I may have told this story on here before but in a bizarre turn of BB fan karma, approximately 8 or 9 months after that box dropped, I was browsing the "Used CD" section of The Wherehouse, and lo and behold there was a stray Disc 2 (the one with the Pet Sounds/Smile era) priced at the princely sum of $4.  I couldn't believe my good fortune.  To this day, I wonder how that happened.  Who "parts out" a boxed set?  And if you're going to jettison some of your discs from that set, who ditches Disc 2?

[Wirestone]

Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I think in those earliest days of the internet, there were still a lot of fans that learned about releases by stumbling across them at stores, or reading about them in music magazines.

I remember the "internet" era for the BBs picking up in 1998, with a lot of discussion about what was going on with the touring band (remember that back in 1998 there was no big announcement; people just noticed Al wasn't showing up at gigs anymore), and also a lot discussion about "Endless Harmony Soundtrack" and what might be on it, etc.

Wow, I learn something new every day on this board that I didn't know before. Had no idea the stereo remix had leaked a full year before its official release! That had to have both been awesome as well as anticlimactic for the actual release, all things considered. Yet I'm sure minds were still massively blown by all the other bonus tracks that hadn't leaked.

Seeing as the PSS was "pulled from release very late in the game", were booklets ever printed and discarded that didn't pass Mike's barometer? Or maybe the kibosh was put just before anything hit the printing press? Almost makes it seem like it could've been another situation with the SMiLE LP covers that were junked.

Which spins off another question - I wonder what the furthest (other than SMiLE and PSS) that any release has gotten to coming out by this band, before getting killed and junked. I guess Sweet Insanity is another. Although I'm talking about something where something was printed in anticipation of release, but then changed at the last minute.

I paid good money for a silver-pressed CD boot of that sampler stereo mix in early 1997!

And yes, it was known and discussed at the time that Mike had held up the release. Folks posted about it at length.

[debonbon]

Yep, I ordered the boot sampler because of the delay, I couldn’t wait to hear the stereo mix. I remember the day it arrived vividly.

[Lonely Summer]

Was PSS the last Beach Boys package to be released while Carl was alive?

[thetojo]

I think you'll find that's right.

Endless Harmony soundtrack was the first release after Carl had died. It allowed the track "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", in which Carl flubs one word - to be released. Carl had previosuly blocked the release of the song, as I understand it, because of the flub. Great song though!!

Imagine if every time Mike had flubbed a lyric, that song had been blocked - we wouldn't have heard "Cherry Cherry Coupe" - that's for sure!!

[Dove Nested Towers]

.

[Dove Nested Towers]

I think you'll find that's right.

Endless Harmony soundtrack was the first release after Carl had died. It allowed the track "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", in which Carl flubs one word - to be released. Carl had previosuly blocked the release of the song, as I understand it, because of the flub. Great song though!!

Imagine if every time Mike had flubbed a lyric, that song had been blocked - we wouldn't have heard "Cherry Cherry Coupe" - that's for sure!!

Alan Boyd was really a miracle worker on that doc and its soundtrack. David Leaf recommended him for the Delilah Films Endless Harmony project and he took the ball and ran with it, getting tons of rare unreleased material, including SOMS, in the film and on the soundtrack. Then there was the groundbreaking "Hawthorner, CA" double set and it was off to the races for him, a dream come true.

[Dove Nested Towers]

.

[Lonely Summer]

 

[Shady]

Guys... seriously..

We still haven't heard anything?

[Shady]

Would it kill them to formally acknowledge it's existence.. allow us to pre-order.. stuff like that?

They can do the artwork and track lists later if they aren't ready.

[Rocker]

I think you'll find that's right.

Endless Harmony soundtrack was the first release after Carl had died. It allowed the track "Soulful Old Man Sunshine", in which Carl flubs one word - to be released. Carl had previosuly blocked the release of the song, as I understand it, because of the flub. Great song though!!

Imagine if every time Mike had flubbed a lyric, that song had been blocked - we wouldn't have heard "Cherry Cherry Coupe" - that's for sure!!

Alan Boyd was really a miracle worker on that doc and its soundtrack. David Leaf recommended him for the Delilah Films Endless Harmony project and he took the ball and ran with it, getting tons of rare unreleased material, including SOMS, in the film and on the soundtrack. Then there was the groundbreaking "Hawthorner, CA" double set and it was off to the races for him, a dream come true.

Yes, great soundtrack. Still regularly in my player!

[HeyJude]

Would it kill them to formally acknowledge it's existence.. allow us to pre-order.. stuff like that?

They can do the artwork and track lists later if they aren't ready.

This thing isn't going to sell out or something; does anybody really need to pre-order it with extra lead time? It'll be announced with a sufficient gap between announcement and release date. Everyone will have plenty of time to pre-order, plan accordingly, etc.

And the set's existence has been acknowledged by those working on it, and numerous band members. Beyond that, what could possibly come *prior* to an announcement? Does anybody really need Iconic/BRI to announce that an announcement is forthcoming? That's essentially what this thread is.

[Awesoman]

Was this situation similar back in '96/'97 when the Pet Sounds Sessions was released?

At least in terms of the prolonged waiting process and uncertainty?

I guess the internet and message boards weren't what they are today, but curious how the current FF state with everyone on the edge of their seats waiting for info compares to a quarter century ago.

I'm not sure of the exact timing, but I recall the main thing about the PS box was that it was known about, and the sampler (which I believe included the full stereo remix plus some bonus tracks) all leaked out the full year or so before the set was released. People knew the thing existed and was pulled from release very late in the game, so I think there was a feeling that it was almost certainly going to come out, it was just a question of when.

I actually owned that sampler after finding it in a record shop while visiting Ohio.  Owned the stereo mix well before the box set came out.  I remember trying to convince folks on the AOL BB message forum that I had it and no one believed me at the time.  🤷‍♂️

[Emdeeh]

The Almost Famous box set was announced last week for an early July release. Following that logic, we ought to be hearing about FF in a couple of weeks.

[onkster]

You also have to remember that some of the band members were wary of David Leaf going all the way back to the 80s when Leaf released his book. Leaf's approach to writing about the band was not exactly always extra sympathetic to the other band members. So when Leaf's liners on the PS set were unavoidable also very Brian-centric, it's not surprising it might have put some band members off. As I've mentioned before, note that while the PS set came out, Leaf never again wrote liner notes for a BRI-sanctioned Beach Boys release.

Hmmm, Has there ever been such a thing as “bootleg liner notes”?

As in, did Leaf’s Liner notes ever leak out to the underground? I would love to read them!