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663435 Posts in 26586 Topics by 3816 Members - Latest Member: ILikeTheBeachBoys October 25, 2020, 06:57:10 AM
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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 168429 times)
rab2591
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« Reply #1600 on: September 17, 2020, 02:36:16 PM »

It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.

Thanks so much for the update, Howie.
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« Reply #1601 on: September 17, 2020, 02:49:40 PM »

Meanwhile, yet another big name artist gets their sh*t together and releases something amazing in the way of a career spanning box set that will be truly special.

I'm looking at you Elton John!

https://www.billboard.com/articles/columns/pop/9450922/elton-john-jewel-box-set-rarities-b-sides-deep-cuts

After reading that article about the Elton John box, one would think that Mike would feel a competitive spirit in order to show that his band has the goods too.

But then reading these line in the article: "The 148-song set, personally curated by the singer, will chronicle his early stages collaborating with lyricist Bernie Taupin" and "I find it hard to comprehend just how prolific Bernie and I were during the early days," John says in a statement." made me wonder if Mike is possibly holding the box hostage out of trying to coerce "Cousin Brian" to collaborate on new material, to continue Mike's mission to be known as the Bernie Taupin to Brian's Elton John for all times, for that to be a regular thing that is widely thought.  That would go in line with Mike's recent vault material deflection coupled with his hinting at something new down the road.

Mike is completely obsessed with trying to drill in the idea that HE is Brian's primary writing partner, that this is something he is owed. And to find ways to ensure that his name is always spoken about, hand in hand, in the news whenever Brian's music is discussed (the way Bernie is often mentioned in articles about Elton's music). I think Mike was and remains very, very broken and bitter by the way the 2012 album and reunion didn't pan out in the way he wanted it to (namely, for the album/reunion to be the triumphant return of WILSON/LOVE-penned songs, which would finally show the world how much Brian NEEDS Mike.)

I could see how if this scenario were the case here, that things could come to an immovable impasse. I don't think Brian particularly wants to work with Mike again. And I don't know how a situation like that - if true - could be "negotiated" unless the demand was dropped, if Mike reluctantly sees it as an endeavor that won't ever happen, yet realizes correctly that greenlighting the box will still bring him money and plenty of praise.

Minus touring, Mike has way too much time on his hands for scheming now, and I think this limbo state of the box is the result, in my estimation. I think whatever the holdup, it's born out of some form of ridiculous desperation and is due to someone who wants to "get something out of" Feel Flows indirectly, other than directly getting money/praise from the actual release itself. Gross.

Maybe I'm totally wrong, but I don't think this scenario is out of character for Mike. Does anyone? That way he also gets to play the role of "good guy" who just "innocently wants to write with his dear cousin",  potential new music he has spun to BRI as profit-generating and critical-praise-generating, and he gets to gaslight Brian and those around Brian as being the bad guys for not wanting to deal with him again, which in reality IMHO is the healthiest thing Brian could do. For the group-centric Sunflower era reiussue to be a gateway to the "group-centric (as defined by Mike)" current music. I could see how maybe, just maybe, that specific spin could get backers/support by others behind the scenes, if it indeed takes more than just Mike's whims to greenlight/block this set.

In theory, I could see even Carl's estate agreeing to a scenario like this, if it were thought that this could somehow help repair broken family relationships.  Obviously, most anybody with a heart would in theory want Brian and Mike's relationship to be mended, and for them to have a problem-free relationship on purely a personal level, yet if this scheme is what's happening, I personally think using anything at all - let alone precious amazing music from 50 years ago - as a bargaining chip is a low move. As a bonus, if Mike has concocted such as scheme, he'd also get to piss off his apparent mortal enemy, Melinda Wilson, because I'm sure she is protective of Brian and isn't keen on that songwriting reunion either, so I'm sure Mike would be extraordinarily happy to specifically see her buckle to his whims - that control over Melinda might bring good ol' Mike more joy than the act of actually writing with Brian. Because that's what things are always about with Mike - control.

I think it's entirely possible. I'm certainly not stating anything as fact because hell if I know, but I could see it happening. And if it seems fans have too many wild schemes they are guessing, it's only because of what the history of this band and the antics of one member in particular have shown us could be plausible behavior. Just use logic: does Mike strike ANYONE as a guy who - if he thinks he could get something out of it - would not try to find a way to extract a desired outcome out of a situation by whatever means necessary? If he is doing the holding up, it surely must be based on a reason that's a big deal to him. This scenario fits the bill and checks the boxes, IMHO. Getting more praise and legacy adulation (directed at him and his proper place in the band's history as he sees it via the big return of WILSON/LOVE), pissing off Melinda Wilson, and generating even more money from some sort of reunion album or tour. Mike knows he'll never ever get these things without something to hold over everyone's head, and maybe he thinks he's found it with FF.  Undecided  

Oof. I'm hoping against hope that the problems, whatever they are, get resolved. One thing is for sure, control freak narcissists have been an absolute f*cking plague on this great band for 60 years.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 06:36:53 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1602 on: September 17, 2020, 02:50:21 PM »

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.
Also chiming in with a thanks for dropping by. Your phrasing gives me some hope that, if still stuck, it’s not completely off the cards yet.
Yes. "If and when" lightens the mood a bit.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 02:52:14 PM by B.E. » Logged
rab2591
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« Reply #1603 on: September 17, 2020, 02:57:56 PM »

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.
Also chiming in with a thanks for dropping by. Your phrasing gives me some hope that, if still stuck, it’s not completely off the cards yet.
Yes. "If and when" lightens the mood a bit.

The “if” certainly isn’t so uplifting, but I see your point about the “and when”. I am hopeful that we’ll end up with this set. I really can’t wait to hear all the beautiful pieces on it.
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« Reply #1604 on: September 17, 2020, 03:23:27 PM »

It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

I only started commenting on the topic once several others had already resurrected it. I just wanted to offer an opinion as someone who isn't involved in the personal disputes; note I also said it was wrong for GF's actions to be misrepresented. I will also add that we could all be less petty about things.

I agree that we don't need to go on about it, and that it is not relevant to this project.
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« Reply #1605 on: September 17, 2020, 03:56:50 PM »

Yeah, the whole thing attacking GF was weird. I stream the end-of-year collections, too. I pay for my streaming subscriptions (Apple and Amazon), and some amount of that goes to the band. I understand problems with the streaming economy, but if you put the music on streaming platforms you conceivably hope that people will listen to them that way. Everyone on this board has shelled out more money in our lifetimes on this band than any rational person could defend, so let's be kind.

That probably contradicts my post earlier calling some folks idiots, but a foolish consistency is a hobgoblin of little minds.

And finally, good on ESQ.

Sorry but anyone who thinks streaming revenue will support future archive releases is delusional.

Not saying anyone is required to buy them or support them - stream away if you want - but presenting streaming as “supporting” the releases is a fallacy.

I think Wirestone is simply pointing out that the band/Capitol choose to put all of their material on streaming platforms. He's saying they're not putting it there for us NOT to listen to it.

Of course streaming has greatly devalued (both figuratively and literally) music, and of course artists make next to nothing on it, and of course it de-incentivizes people to buy it.

But none of this has anything to do with "Feel Flows" (other than, as I mentioned before, that a stopgap digital release at the end of this year could kill any eventual full release of "Feel Flows").

"Feel Flows" was devised and made in the context of 2020 music industry conditions, with full knowledge of the realities of the industry.

The hold-up is unrelated to any of these industry economics issues.

Sure, now and any time is always good to mention that yes, BUYING this set will help immensely more than not.

I think it is related to Feel Flows - not the holdup, but the project.

I’m referring to the tangent convo surrounding Alan Boyd stopping by a couple years ago imploring the fans to support these archive projects to ensure they keep coming out. As we are now aware, they don’t have to release such deluxe sets.

Capitol of course decides to offer these releases on streaming services - including YouTube. And of course I have no issue with fans streaming them and not buying them - that’s the game, that’s all fine. Capitol and the group are offering these as legal, guilt free options.

Wirestone said “I pay for my streaming subscription and some amount of that goes to the band”. What I’m calling out is the implication that paying for a streaming service supports the projects, because that is a fallacy IMO.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 03:58:46 PM by DonnyL » Logged

♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #1606 on: September 17, 2020, 04:08:23 PM »

It is not necessarily unreasonable to be a little uncomfortable with and critical of the credit and you can voice that if that is your feeling.

It just seems like such a small detail as far as the release itself goes. Why should your issue with it be so great that you are *proud* not to pay for the set at all? Your disrespect for one name, basically in the form of a footnote, outweighs your respect for all the other people credited on the set including those that worked on it directly? Brian and Melinda Wilson themselves were seemingly indifferent to the credit being given, and they're the ones apparently being targeted.

GF himself said that he wishes it were not the case that the credits put him off, and in the end paid for it anyway...so I guess in the end he came around to thinking that it wasn't such a big deal.

So if you know that Guitarfool came around to regretting his stance about the credit, why do you keep posting about it? You say his action was petty, but then in your next post you admit that he himself basically regretted his action. So what the hell is the point of calling his action “petty” two years after the fact? Keep in mind this incident happened two years ago and it literally has no bearing on this release.

Quite frankly I’m sick of this topic being brought up again and again. For whatever reason certain people from EH keep bringing it up, as if they enjoy being proven wrong time and time again and enjoy unfortunate incidents being dredged up from the past. This went from “Guitarfool illegally downloaded music” (which was was easily proven wrong by doing this thing called research) to “guitarfool acted petty” (which you admit that Guitarfool basically regretted his action anyways)  - how about we just stop trying to fling mud at Guitarfool about an incident that took place two years ago that has nothing to do with this thread?

I only started commenting on the topic once several others had already resurrected it. I just wanted to offer an opinion as someone who isn't involved in the personal disputes; note I also said it was wrong for GF's actions to be misrepresented. I will also add that we could all be less petty about things.

I agree that we don't need to go on about it, and that it is not relevant to this project.
fair enough
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1607 on: September 17, 2020, 04:32:57 PM »

I’ve stated this before but I buy physical media AND stream; the actual cds get put away safely and I stream on YouTube or Spotify. I listen to the cds in the car. The artist may not get paid *much * for the streams (trust me, I know...that $0.03 ain’t sh*t) but at least it adds to the total.

I’m gonna use my band as an example for those confused how artist paid streaming works

If someone were to buy something from my site fear2stop.bandcamp.com I obviously get paid. If they just stream from that site though I get nothing. However, if someone bought something there and then heard it on Spotify or went to YouTube and streamed from my *official* site ( let’s say someone wanted to hear F2S’s licensed cover of Solar System  https://youtu.be/qcqjeR_pYzA) I get paid for both. If someone streamed from my personal YouTube channel, I get nothing. If the YouTube channel says “topic” ( like Beach Boys Topic, or Fear 2 Stop Topic, to list two examples)it’s the official page and the artist gets paid.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 04:34:03 PM by ♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1608 on: September 17, 2020, 04:39:02 PM »

Thanks Billy. I of course also stream the physical product that I do buy.

And very much enjoyable cover. Your sound is very much suited to songs from the Love You era.

Fingers crossed for Feel Flows.
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« Reply #1609 on: September 17, 2020, 04:46:48 PM »

I’ve stated this before but I buy physical media AND stream; the actual cds get put away safely and I stream on YouTube or Spotify. I listen to the cds in the car. The artist may not get paid *much * for the streams (trust me, I know...that $0.03 ain’t sh*t) but at least it adds to the total.

I’m gonna use my band as an example for those confused how artist paid streaming works

If someone were to buy something from my site fear2stop.bandcamp.com I obviously get paid. If they just stream from that site though I get nothing. However, if someone bought something there and then heard it on Spotify or went to YouTube and streamed from my *official* site ( let’s say someone wanted to hear F2S’s licensed cover of Solar System  https://youtu.be/qcqjeR_pYzA) I get paid for both. If someone streamed from my personal YouTube channel, I get nothing. If the YouTube channel says “topic” ( like Beach Boys Topic, or Fear 2 Stop Topic, to list two examples)it’s the official page and the artist gets paid.

Really dig the cover, Billy!
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« Reply #1610 on: September 17, 2020, 06:25:13 PM »

Thank you kindly...hopefully the shameless plug* brought some levity to the mix. Right now things are tense but at the end of the day, we’re all fans . I keep saying it, but the legacy of this great band is at stake; when Howie state’s that this could change the perception of the band, that’s *huge*. So on a personal level I want this set out for that very reason (along with the hard work put into it). That’s why I’m so passionate


*and for another cheap plug, in my sig is a link to a BW inspired Halloween song (went for a Passing By meets haunted house type bag)
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
Tom
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« Reply #1611 on: September 17, 2020, 07:42:16 PM »

What has to be understood is that streaming revenue is fundamentally not a viable source of income for anyone but the very most popular artists in the world.


In USD:

Spotify pays artists $0.004 per play
YouTube music pays artists $0.00069 per play


So, let's say a Beach Boys archival set gets a million streams on Spotify. That would equal $4000 in streaming revenue.

Let's say the set also gets 1 million streams on YouTube - that would equal $690.

As a real example, the 'Wake the World' set collectively has about 920,000 streams to date on Spotify - so the figures would be a bit less than the above, and that's before tax, and before being split among all the various parties.

Needless to say, streaming revenue probably doesn't even cover the basic mixing and mastering costs involved with a project like this. Supposing they actually promote the Feel Flows set, you could hope for the streaming income to be somewhat more, but still not even close to approaching six digits.


All this is to say - consuming a release via streaming really doesn't amount to meaningfully supporting an artist. It's great for convenience - but it has to be coupled with some kind of physical purchase.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 07:44:39 PM by Tom » Logged
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« Reply #1612 on: September 17, 2020, 07:57:35 PM »

Hey Tom. You seem to know the numbers. Any idea what sort of return a box set might pay to an artist? Rather than speculating on FF, how about PS and Smile, which did get released?
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« Reply #1613 on: September 17, 2020, 08:16:11 PM »

Tom (or anyone), do we know how much Spotify, YouTube and Apple Music pay labels per play?
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« Reply #1614 on: September 17, 2020, 08:16:25 PM »

What has to be understood is that streaming revenue is fundamentally not a viable source of income for anyone but the very most popular artists in the world.


In USD:

Spotify pays artists $0.004 per play
YouTube music pays artists $0.00069 per play


So, let's say a Beach Boys archival set gets a million streams on Spotify. That would equal $4000 in streaming revenue.

Let's say the set also gets 1 million streams on YouTube - that would equal $690.

As a real example, the 'Wake the World' set collectively has about 920,000 streams to date on Spotify - so the figures would be a bit less than the above, and that's before tax, and before being split among all the various parties.

Needless to say, streaming revenue probably doesn't even cover the basic mixing and mastering costs involved with a project like this. Supposing they actually promote the Feel Flows set, you could hope for the streaming income to be somewhat more, but still not even close to approaching six digits.


All this is to say - consuming a release via streaming really doesn't amount to meaningfully supporting an artist. It's great for convenience - but it has to be coupled with some kind of physical purchase.
Very true. I made 18 cents on YouTube last month . Yeesh.

But that’s why I always recommend people purchase and then stream
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #1615 on: September 17, 2020, 08:26:07 PM »

Tom (or anyone), do we know how much Spotify, YouTube and Apple Music pay labels per play?

Per the web

Quote

Spotify pays whoever holds the rights to a song anywhere from $0.006 to $0.0084 per play. The rights “holder” can then split these earning between the record label, producers, artists, and songwriters, which means splitting pennies between many parties.

This is a pretty good resource

https://www.dittomusic.com/blog/how-much-do-music-streaming-services-pay-musicians

Now on Spotify’s own artist site they don’t say, and say it’s affected by “various factors”. I’d like to know how that works for an independent artist both on an indie label or on their own label. I’ve had months where I got paid more for less streams, for instance.

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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1616 on: September 17, 2020, 08:27:31 PM »

The numbers re: cents per stream from major streaming services are more or less a matter of public record (Billy beat me to the punch). Re: physical releases and the inner workings there, only insiders could speculate.  

I would have to assume though that the cost of creating a physical product would not be a big concern for a major label like Capitol, who have their own manufacturing plants. It does therefore seem baffling that they chose not to have physical products for the 1968 sets. How little faith must they have had in those releases that they weren't even prepared to take a stab at making some profit out of the investment they'd already made - they chose instead to dump it online and hope to at least break even.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 08:29:24 PM by Tom » Logged
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« Reply #1617 on: September 17, 2020, 08:29:16 PM »

Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html

Joel Goldenberg is actually a poster here. Hopefully it's just the start of publications talking about this. Thanks for posting, Cork! And thanks Joel for writing this up!
You're welcome!
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« Reply #1618 on: September 17, 2020, 08:33:33 PM »

Never heard of this publication, but at least it's something. Summarizes the info collected here. It popped up as the top result of a Google News search for "Beach Boys Feel Flows". Also, when beginning to type "Beach Boys Fe" into the regular Google search, the top autofill it comes up with is "beach boys feel flows box set". More people beyond just the board must be wondering about it.

https://www.thesuburban.com/arts_and_entertainment/joel-goldenberg-free-feel-flows/article_ee41e743-0091-53a3-8b28-2221dff42b8c.html
To fill you in, I write for the largest English weekly newspaper in the Canadian province of Quebec, which serves a large part of Montreal and its northern neighbor Laval. The article is online-only, but our print version, founded March 1, 1963, has 160,000 circulation.
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Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #1619 on: September 17, 2020, 08:34:05 PM »

Great work Joel!
Thanks! The word must be spread!
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Wirestone
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« Reply #1620 on: September 17, 2020, 09:31:25 PM »

If there is so little audience for this music as you all seem to imply, then Capitol shouldn’t waste time releasing it.

My god, you treat this band as if they’re struggling indie rockers instead of being well-paid stars for the last half-century.

I refuse to be guilted over something like this. I believe the band owns its masters at this point (at least for this era) and could release them whenever and however and for whatever sums they want. They choose, out of cowardice, to remain with a major label and make the galling compromises that entails. They choose to be paid less because it makes them feel important.

But the label, at least in this case, isn’t even standing in the way. It’s not concerned about streaming. It wants to release a lavish physical boxed set, of the sort that I and all of you would buy in a heartbeat.

How many of you bought the OCA double colored vinyl? Not too many, if the lack of discussion on this board is any indication. But I did.


Striking through this so 1.) we know it existed but 2.) that I was being unacceptably cranky. Wasn't the first time, won't be the last, but this is a special place and ya'll are special folks.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2020, 01:09:24 PM by Wirestone » Logged
Tom
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« Reply #1621 on: September 17, 2020, 09:39:22 PM »

By no means am I saying the audience is small. I never suggested that - I'm saying the current streaming system is unjust to the point that even a release which receives almost a million streams on Spotify will only make about $4000 dollars. I.e. you essentially have to be getting tens if not hundreds of millions of streams to make real money on a digital only release.

My main point is that a physical release is therefore essential to make a decent profit, and the absence of a physical release would appear to indicate a complete lack of confidence in the material from the record label's end (referring to the 1968 sets here). Some have suggested they'd be okay with streaming only as a compromise - I'm merely suggesting it'd not only be a poor compromise for all involved, but also a nonsensical business choice.

Anyway, based on Howie's comments, it seems the label indeed wants this one to come out, physical set and all.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 09:46:09 PM by Tom » Logged
♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #1622 on: September 17, 2020, 10:20:16 PM »

That’s how I took it too; showing that there’s no money in streaming only even when a large amount of people stream it. A physical release is necessary to maximize return on investment ; the audience is there regardless. I’d be happy with streaming only as a consumer. My own experience shows that as an artist there’s nowhere near enough money that there *should* be. Us artists are getting the shaft, but that’s a discussion for a different time.

If anything, the petition has showed the demand is there
« Last Edit: September 17, 2020, 10:21:16 PM by ♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇 » Logged

RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1623 on: September 17, 2020, 10:36:11 PM »

By no means am I saying the audience is small. I never suggested that - I'm saying the current streaming system is unjust to the point that even a release which receives almost a million streams on Spotify will only make about $4000 dollars. I.e. you essentially have to be getting tens if not hundreds of millions of streams to make real money on a digital only release.

My main point is that a physical release is therefore essential to make a decent profit, and the absence of a physical release would appear to indicate a complete lack of confidence in the material from the record label's end (referring to the 1968 sets here). Some have suggested they'd be okay with streaming only as a compromise - I'm merely suggesting it'd not only be a poor compromise for all involved, but also a nonsensical business choice.

Anyway, based on Howie's comments, it seems the label indeed wants this one to come out, physical set and all.

Let’s not conflate digital only releases with streaming.
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Lonely Summer
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« Reply #1624 on: September 17, 2020, 10:39:49 PM »

If there is so little audience for this music as you all seem to imply, then Capitol shouldn’t waste time releasing it.

My god, you treat this band as if they’re struggling indie rockers instead of being well-paid stars for the last half-century.

I refuse to be guilted over something like this. I believe the band owns its masters at this point (at least for this era) and could release them whenever and however and for whatever sums they want. They choose, out of cowardice, to remain with a major label and make the galling compromises that entails. They choose to be paid less because it makes them feel important.

But the label, at least in this case, isn’t even standing in the way. It’s not concerned about streaming. It wants to release a lavish physical boxed set, of the sort that I and all of you would buy in a heartbeat.

How many of you bought the OCA double colored vinyl? Not too many, if the lack of discussion on this board is any indication. But I did.
I take offense at that last comment. I would very much like to buy the OCA double vinyl, but at $30 for the set, it's a low priority compared to paying the rent, putting gas in my car so I can get to my part time job (my second part time job was killed by Covid 19), buying groceries.

I get the impression that most of the folks here are living very comfortably; laying down $30 for a piece of vinyl, $70 for a concert ticket, or $100 plus for a box set is no great problem for you.

Some of us live a different reality.

And that said, I would still much rather have a physical box set that simply a download/streaming option.
That's too much like the days when friends and I would trade cassettes. No packaging, no artwork, no information about the tracks, nothing.

When things get better - IF things get better - I will get the OCA vinyl. It's something I had hoped for for a very long time.

The last thing I'm gonna worry about is Capitol Records or the Beach Boys making a profit. Those guys have seen more money than I will ever see if I live 100 lifetimes.
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