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663079 Posts in 26574 Topics by 3814 Members - Latest Member: Frankyfasthands October 19, 2020, 08:07:01 PM
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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 160492 times)
Sam_BFC
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« Reply #1400 on: September 07, 2020, 01:29:58 PM »

If we do end up with a digital only release, would it be overly-optimistic to draw er optimism from the fact that the 1968 release was digital-only but far from bare bones?
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« Reply #1401 on: September 07, 2020, 01:33:23 PM »

Idk. Without a direct statement I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but "definitely not all of them", "circular firing squad", "one or two" and "in big flashing letters" - I'm guessing when the man said he consulted with "brains" (anagram Brian) and "heart" (heart = Love), those are the two. But yeah, if it takes two to tank it and Brian and his team are the other no, I couldn't even begin to fathom the reasons.
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« Reply #1402 on: September 07, 2020, 01:38:15 PM »

If we do end up with a digital only release, would it be overly-optimistic to draw er optimism from the fact that the 1968 release was digital-only but far from bare bones?
I don't know, but if we do end up with a digital only release, i am hoping some of the physical package stuff - liner notes, etc - will leak out to the public. Or we could just call upon a team of experts - I'm not one of them - here to write some notes about the contents.
I'm sure we will get our regular 50 year copyright dumps for the material from 1970 and 1971.
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« Reply #1403 on: September 07, 2020, 01:43:22 PM »

I'd also like to briefly address the other message board resurrecting the strawman argument (against what I'm not sure; I guess against lobbying for this set to be released?) that fans are talking about this set out of a sense of entitlement.

That's bulls**t.

And frankly, I'd wager the folks minimizing all of this by suggesting fans are acting "entitled" are people who are out of the loop (perhaps much to their frustration) and don't know what's going on with this set. And because they don't know what's going on, they are, as Jon Stebbins put it, stumbling around and not seeing the subtext and machinations involved in why this movement to tell the band we want this released is happening. I guess I'm not surprised when a new and/or young fan doesn't see all of this subtext. But when veteran fans/scholars aren't seeing *exactly* what's going on, when those people can't see the big flashing letters and signs being held up as this movement has been undertaken, I have to admit I'm a bit surprised. There's either a weird disconnect in terms of not understanding, or other interests are being defended/protected by trying to tell fans that all of this "isn't a big deal" or "they could have been planning this release strategy all along!", etc.

The fans didn't start this. The *band* greenlit a set and paid to have it made. Then multiple band members publicly spoke about it. We then learned it has been done and ready to release for quite some time, and yet something is holding it up. Fans are telling the band "we have monies, and we'll give those monies to you if you release the thing you already commissioned and paid for, and oh yeah, the set makes the band look great too!"

None of this is about fans feeling entitled.

What fan would possibly argue AGAINST fans politely and enthusiastically asking for the band to release this set? Unless someone has some other loyalty or bias/motivation, what fan doesn't want to see a nice 1970/71 boxed set? Are there really fans that argue against fans asking for this set simply because they're out of the loop about the machinations involved in this set not coming out thus far?
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« Reply #1404 on: September 07, 2020, 01:51:26 PM »

Idk. Without a direct statement I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but "definitely not all of them", "circular firing squad", "one or two" and "in big flashing letters" - I'm guessing when the man said he consulted with "brains" (anagram Brian) and "heart" (heart = Love), those are the two. But yeah, if it takes two to tank it and Brian and his team are the other no, I couldn't even begin to fathom the reasons.

There are no anagrams involved, nor synonyms.

And I think Jon's point (I don't want to speak for him of course) was not that there a bunch of hidden messages to pick up on. Quite the opposite. Simply reading what has been said, in a very literal, verbatim sense, should be all the big flashing letters you need.

It's not about hidden messages or anagrams.

It's about common sense and logic and the years of experience as BB fans.

And I don't think the point has been to name specific names. There are 87 reasons that's not easy to do, nor would it be helpful. That's why I've been saying everybody should ask/tell all the band members they want the set out. It can't hurt if you tell someone who already wants it out that you want it out.
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« Reply #1405 on: September 07, 2020, 02:40:46 PM »

HeyJude said “87 reasons”...  hidden meaning?

8 plus 7 eguals 15... as in 15 Big Ones? The hidden meaning is that there are 15 tracks that are holding up the box set...

8 minus 7 equals 1... meaning ONE person is holding up Feel Flows...

7 minus 8 equals negative 1... Who is the most “negative one” in the group?  

It’s all crystal clear now...
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 02:42:44 PM by mtaber » Logged
juggler
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« Reply #1406 on: September 07, 2020, 02:55:22 PM »

HeyJude said “87 reasons”...  hidden meaning?

8 plus 7 eguals 15... as in 15 Big Ones? The hidden meaning is that there are 15 tracks that are holding up the box set...

Mike Love was born on March 15, 1941.

March 15, and
1941 : 1 + 9 + 4 + 1 = 15

Just sayin'    LOL LOL LOL
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Don Malcolm
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« Reply #1407 on: September 07, 2020, 02:55:54 PM »

In addition to discussing the situation here,  those participating in this thread who feel strongly enough about it all really should take some time to contact any and all friends/acquaintances with some modicum of knowledge and appreciation of the band and explain what is happening and why adding their show of support is a valuable effort.

"Grassroots appeals" can often turn the tide if folks continue to press the issue and thus are able to preserve the momentum of the effort.

With respect to a digital-only release: we can only take what they are willing to give us. AGAIN--this is the best possible reason for someone to leak the track list of FEEL FLOWS, so that what is exactly at stake here is revealed in the brightest possible light. Howie's description of it is compelling and heartfelt but it isn't enough to demonstrate the magnitude of the project, particularly to media folks.
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« Reply #1408 on: September 07, 2020, 03:29:01 PM »

I also strongly disagree with those who act like the petition doesn’t matter; spreading the word on how much the fans *want* this set out is a good thing; to do otherwise is an insult to anyone who worked on the set.
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Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





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spring-baby
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« Reply #1409 on: September 07, 2020, 05:38:28 PM »

I can’t think of a music release I would want more (by any artist) than this Feel Flows boxset. It will be a bummer if it is not released especially having read about its existence from band members and participants for the last 10 months.

Yes, it does appear that Mike Love might be (based on the tiny amount of info we have) one of the hold outs.

Here is what I do not understand. If you believe that Mike Love is the reason for the hold-up/cancellation, why trash him in an effort to achieve your stated goal? Are you Mike Derangement Syndrome folks this “persuasive” in your everyday lives? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?

And for those very same folks who are now lashing out at ESQ for saying that a 1000-signature petition is not enough to move the profit-motive needle, here’s a bit of news: It’s NOT enough to move the needle. I’m not saying this to defend ESQ (I’ve never read an issue) but reality is reality.

I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.

At most, Feel Flows is a legacy release. A money-losing vanity piece that would hopefully remind everybody how truly great the 1970-1971 Beach Boys were. And at the very least, Feel Flows is fancy damage control release for the sole purpose of retaining European copyrights (if that’s even a real thing anymore).

And for those of you who say “Mike Love’s people will never see my nasty comments anyway”, then I say “they’ll never see your petition either.”

I have no idea what any of the individual Beach Boys are thinking, but if I were to make a guess, I would GUESS that Mike is thinking solely in reunion terms, which is to say, people will be starving for uncomplicated fun in 2021… maybe a 60-date 60th anniversary summer/fall tour with guest stars galore… a cheesy new Beach Boys “Duets” CDs on the endcap of every Target and Walmart, plus a MIC-style career-spanning box in late 2021.

And if that IS what he’s thinking then, for him, Feel Flows is just some dusty for-collectors-only release that will step on upcoming reunion messaging and undermine the surprise of Big Beach Boys News in early 2021.

Like I said, I'll be bummed if Feel Flows fizzles, but if I had to choose between:
A) a Feel Flows archive set in 2020, no 2021 reunion tour, no cheesy 2021 reunion CD
B) 2021 reunion tour, cheesy 2021 reunion CD, and a 2023 archive boxset covering 1970-1973
I’ll go with “B”  because 2021 would surely be the last time the surviving Beach Boys could pull off a reunion. And I want to get out of the house. I sure hope these guys can work it out.
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« Reply #1410 on: September 07, 2020, 06:10:57 PM »

Here is what I do not understand. If you believe that Mike Love is the reason for the hold-up/cancellation, why trash him in an effort to achieve your stated goal? Are you Mike Derangement Syndrome folks this “persuasive” in your everyday lives? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?

Mike Derangement Syndrome LOL If Mike is the one blocking it I would hope that through the positive and negative comments that Mike could see we are a bunch of fans who just want to hear the music. Fans will be fans, some will be nasty, sarcastic, jovial, positive. If Mike based his voting decision on the negativity from the fanbase we would never have gotten any boxsets ever.

But again, apparently this is released by a majority vote, so this set is being held up by two or more voting members of BRI. So I think we can confidently say this isn't a single member vetoing the set because of the annoying fans at the Smiley Smile message board.

And for those very same folks who are now lashing out at ESQ for saying that a 1000-signature petition is not enough to move the profit-motive needle, here’s a bit of news: It’s NOT enough to move the needle. I’m not saying this to defend ESQ (I’ve never read an issue) but reality is reality.

Nobody said 1,000 signatures was enough to move the needle. There are some of us who would like ESQ to shed some light on either the petition or the Feel Flows boxset so actual traction on the petition or general buzz about the set can take place. ESQ is definitely a big name in the fandom, they have some 7,000 followers on Facebook. I completely get why they don't get involved, but it would be nice if they shared the petition or asked some questions about the set.

Quote
I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.

These two statements so obviously contradict each other. It doesn't matter how long it takes to make the profit. Fact is it has a good chance of making a profit. Also, these guys are millionaires to a ridiculous extent. I wrote about it many many pages back, but these guys likely don't give a damn about the paltry amount of money they will end up making from this set. Regardless, it is still money that will be added to their bank accounts.

Quote
And for those of you who say “Mike Love’s people will never see my nasty comments anyway”, then I say “they’ll never see your petition either.”

Who has said this? Mike Love has stated in the past that he frequently looks at this board. So no doubt he has read the comments regarding himself.

Quote
B) 2021 reunion tour, cheesy 2021 reunion CD, and a 2023 archive boxset covering 1970-1973

The reason why people want this out before December 31, 2020 is because of copyright deadlines. So releasing an archival boxset in 2023 would be completely pointless for the band to do.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 06:16:06 PM by rab2591 » Logged

Sam_BFC
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« Reply #1411 on: September 07, 2020, 06:31:24 PM »


I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.


Fair point overall, but do keep in mind that most of those costs have probably already occurred, given that the project is complete and ready to go.
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« Reply #1412 on: September 07, 2020, 06:42:55 PM »

Quote
Here is what I do not understand. If you believe that Mike Love is the reason for the hold-up/cancellation, why trash him in an effort to achieve your stated goal? Are you Mike Derangement Syndrome folks this “persuasive” in your everyday lives? Did you insult your way into a promotion, a raise, or a first date maybe? Have you successfully shamed your neighbors or co-workers into voting for your preferred candidate this fall?
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RIP Daniel Dale Johnston ( 1961-2019)
_______________________________________________________
Fear 2 Stop: eating all of Elon Musk's nightmares as he sleeps

"I've never heard such ear-pleasing screams before!"
________________________________________________
Free Feel Flows!!!!

Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





——————————————————————————————-

http://fear2stop.bandcamp.com/track/tricky-treats
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« Reply #1413 on: September 07, 2020, 07:15:18 PM »

Beach Boy reunion in 2021 is frankly not a prospect that appeals to me, even if it were to happen. The ship has sailed - 2012 was good but we must remember nearly a decade has passed. Mike and Al's  voice hasn't declined too much, but Brian's and Bruce's seem to have worsened quite a bit. These are people nearing 80 years old - and 80 is a very different beast than 70 in terms of physical health and endurance.

If it's down to the hypothetical 60th anniversary tour vs. a full and high fidelity document of one of Carl and Dennis's peaks as songwriters and recording artists, it's the latter all the way for me. It may not be of the greatest appeal to a broad audience, but it's historically and culturally important that it be available for public consumption.

This is *especially* true for Dennis's work in my opinion. There's still a long way to go in reversing his current reputation as the self-destructive wild card who brought Charlie Manson into the fold. Dennis's musical output between 68-72 would speak for itself - if it were all given the proper chance to be heard.
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« Reply #1414 on: September 07, 2020, 07:47:42 PM »

You make a great point. They've paid for the research/studio time/liner notes part already... so who knows? Maybe there's a desire (by someone?) to take the best items from the Feel Flows set and roll them into a 2021 career-spanning set. That's a just a guess. I sincerely hope not! Like I said, I'll be REALLY disappointed if the complete 5-CD set doesn't come out. I just don't think that the way to help this thing along is via insults toward band members. I like all of the Beach Boys. I don't agree with every decision that each makes... but I like all of them. And for someone who likes all of them, you can't beat the Sunflower/Surf's Up era. I'm not directing that last part at you. That's just a general thought.



I keep hearing comments like “Why won’t The Beach Boys just take my money?”. Answer: because there is no money to make on a project like this. Just consider the research costs, studio time, final mastering costs, legal fees, manufacturing costs, promotion costs, etc. And when (years from now) it finally makes a profit, it will be divided among several estates.


Fair point overall, but do keep in mind that most of those costs have probably already occurred, given that the project is complete and ready to go.
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« Reply #1415 on: September 07, 2020, 08:06:58 PM »

Maybe. But if they must release Feel Flows during 2020 then what are we all worried about? Let's party.

Quote
B) 2021 reunion tour, cheesy 2021 reunion CD, and a 2023 archive boxset covering 1970-1973

The reason why people want this out before December 31, 2020 is because of copyright deadlines. So releasing an archival boxset in 2023 would be completely pointless for the band to do.
[/quote]
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« Reply #1416 on: September 07, 2020, 08:18:10 PM »

I get it. Not your cup of tea. But if they do it, the tour WILL sell out because it will bring people some much-needed joy. I'm confident we'll get that high fidelity document of Carl and Dennis sooner or later, but the only ship that has truly sailed is seeing Carl and Dennis live. The others are still with us and I'll consider it a treat and even an honor to celebrate their music with them yet again regardless of their age.

Beach Boy reunion in 2021 is frankly not a prospect that appeals to me, even if it were to happen. The ship has sailed - 2012 was good but we must remember nearly a decade has passed. Mike and Al's  voice hasn't declined too much, but Brian's and Bruce's seem to have worsened quite a bit. These are people nearing 80 years old - and 80 is a very different beast than 70 in terms of physical health and endurance.

If it's down to the hypothetical 60th anniversary tour vs. a full and high fidelity document of one of Carl and Dennis's peaks as songwriters and recording artists, it's the latter all the way for me. It may not be of the greatest appeal to a broad audience, but it's historically and culturally important that it be available for public consumption.

This is *especially* true for Dennis's work in my opinion. There's still a long way to go in reversing his current reputation as the self-destructive wild card who brought Charlie Manson into the fold. Dennis's musical output between 68-72 would speak for itself - if it were all given the proper chance to be heard.
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« Reply #1417 on: September 07, 2020, 09:52:55 PM »

I think I may have posted in the beginning of this thread but nothing since. Just a few thoughts and ideas. Any possibility a holdout is related to future 50th releases? Rather than just the 70/71 albums a member is considering the long game?
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« Reply #1418 on: September 07, 2020, 10:04:33 PM »

Would I go to a 60th anniversary show?   If Brian participates, then probably yes.  But I'm not holding my breath. The various camps always have their issues. And the man himself seemed somewhat frail in his performing-from-home videos a couple months ago. Doubt he's really up to a big tour.  IMO, best case would be not a road trip but rather a few "home games" (e.g., a limited stint in L.A. where it all began).

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« Reply #1419 on: September 07, 2020, 10:45:54 PM »

I really don't care about a 60th anniversary reunion. For starters, I know I would not be able to afford the tickets - to put this in perspective, the most i spent on concert tickets last year was $35 for the Beach Boys. Even the nosebleed seats at a reunion show will top $70. And I'm not convinced the guys can deliver it at this point. Mike does fine with his current band because most of the heavy lifting is done by younger musicians. If I felt the need to sit at the feet of a master, Brian Wilson, and that my life would somehow be enhanced by the experience, I might go for it, but I really don't look him as a wise old yogi that is going to lead me to the light. His music has already done that.
I want the full Feel Flows box - cd's, inserts, the complete experience.
I don't need another career spanning box set. We've already got a couple of those. What would they do different this time that they didn't do before?
Someone earlier said something about Dennis' current reputation as a drug addict who hung out with Manson. Really? That is what people think when they hear the name Dennis Wilson today? I don't think there is any lack of awareness of Dennis as a composer, piano player, as a true artist. The reissue of Pacific Ocean Blue was greeted with unanimous praise, and it is always Dennis' contributions on those late 60s'/early 70's albums I see being singled out for praise. If anyone's contributions might gain a reppraisal from the release of FF, it will be Carl's - as a producer, as a songwriter, as a singer. I hope so anyway.
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« Reply #1420 on: September 07, 2020, 11:45:16 PM »

I'm working on an assumption that the track list isn't an issue. It seems clear from the insider knowledge we've been given that this thing got a green light long ago, and to have been 2 years in development with consultation along the way, it would not make any sense that those sorts of issues were the holdup.

What does that leave? An internal squabble - but over what. Historically, liner notes is the best precedent we have, but my reading is that's along the same lines as track listing - it's likely been settled - after all it's clear that some issues have already come up and already been resolved.

The label could be in a standoff with BRI - probably would have to relate to $ split, because "the label wants to release it" - but that doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me

It occurs to me that someone - and I'm not suggesting anyone in particular here - could be trying to link the deal for this release to a deal for some other future release or releases - that could be the hold up.

Is that a possibility?
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« Reply #1421 on: September 08, 2020, 02:03:45 AM »

Maybe. But if they must release Feel Flows during 2020 then what are we all worried about? Let's party.

It’s not a maybe. It’s the reality of the situation...which is why there are nearly 60 pages of posts in this thread. To make it clearer, here are a couple posts that easily spell out the situation:

One of the points I've made many times in this thread is that yes, they *would* likely need to put *something* out by the end of the year digitally. But it would not likely be anywhere near the full contents of the box. They'd only need to put out titles that are unreleased and need to be protected. It could end up being closer to that late 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" copyright drop. No cover art, only a hand full of tracks.

I could easily see that minimalist digital release removing even *more* motivation and sense of urgency in ever putting the full set out.

We're not making assumptions. We have real information, from people who are involved and people who know what's going on.

It's getting kinda old to see folks pop into this thread and either not read the thread, or ignore it, and make some some sort of uninformed mic-drop comment.

If nothing had been said about this set, and we were just assuming some sort of set should be coming out, then yes, that would be a lot of assumptions.

That's not the case here. A large, lavish, dignified, DESERVED boxed set has been sitting on the shelf finished for months and months and months. If it's not released by the end of the year, we are very unlikely to see *all* of those contents released digitally. But a partial digital release could do more harm than good to getting the full set out.
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« Reply #1422 on: September 08, 2020, 04:00:41 AM »

I know the "situation"... 60 pages of armchair lawyers. Plenty of major artists haven't even bothered so... maybe.
And if you're right, that Feel Flows MUST come out before Dec 31st, then what is everybody fretting about?

And just to be clear, I mean to say *just a few* armchair lawyers, over and over, throughout the 60 pages.


Maybe. But if they must release Feel Flows during 2020 then what are we all worried about? Let's party.

It’s not a maybe. It’s the reality of the situation...which is why there are nearly 60 pages of posts in this thread. To make it clearer, here are a couple posts that easily spell out the situation:

One of the points I've made many times in this thread is that yes, they *would* likely need to put *something* out by the end of the year digitally. But it would not likely be anywhere near the full contents of the box. They'd only need to put out titles that are unreleased and need to be protected. It could end up being closer to that late 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" copyright drop. No cover art, only a hand full of tracks.

I could easily see that minimalist digital release removing even *more* motivation and sense of urgency in ever putting the full set out.

We're not making assumptions. We have real information, from people who are involved and people who know what's going on.

It's getting kinda old to see folks pop into this thread and either not read the thread, or ignore it, and make some some sort of uninformed mic-drop comment.

If nothing had been said about this set, and we were just assuming some sort of set should be coming out, then yes, that would be a lot of assumptions.

That's not the case here. A large, lavish, dignified, DESERVED boxed set has been sitting on the shelf finished for months and months and months. If it's not released by the end of the year, we are very unlikely to see *all* of those contents released digitally. But a partial digital release could do more harm than good to getting the full set out.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2020, 04:13:59 AM by spring-baby » Logged
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« Reply #1423 on: September 08, 2020, 07:07:04 AM »

Brian's facebook page shared an article about the 'Sunflower' album about 15-20 minutes ago, so I figured what the hell, and made a comment linking the change.org petition and asking if there was a chance we might get any public acknowledgment about the petition for the previously publicly acknowledged box set, also noting that I had asked the same of ESQ and noted my disappointment at their lack of coverage (also noting that my comment had either been deleted or hidden) so for whatever it's worth we'll see how the BW social media machine reacts.

Also worth noting the jokes about ESQ doing wall-to-wall COVID coverage and whatnot gave me a good laugh, much needed. And rab, you made an excellent articulation on my feelings regarding ESQ dismissing the signature count (saying that they were probably pretty stoked when they hit 1,000 subscribers). I wish I would've been able to word my feelings so eloquently while I was still in exchange with them, when you're building your fan-base/subscribers/followers or whatever, you shouldn't scoff at any number because everyone starts at 0, or at best 1.
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« Reply #1424 on: September 08, 2020, 07:41:28 AM »

I think I’ve cracked the code. Some of us have mentioned someone holding out for some future release...Mike wants a 50th box set of SIP coming out in 2043, and that’s the only way he’ll let this go out.  Wink
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