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663089 Posts in 26574 Topics by 3814 Members - Latest Member: Frankyfasthands October 19, 2020, 10:55:10 PM
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Author Topic: Feel Flows box set  (Read 160918 times)
thetojo
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« Reply #1375 on: September 06, 2020, 01:32:26 PM »

I have given up on this box set.

Would be so happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it

+1
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« Reply #1376 on: September 06, 2020, 03:16:34 PM »

Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?
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« Reply #1377 on: September 06, 2020, 03:17:53 PM »

Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?

Stebbins said the hold wasn’t due to COVID.
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« Reply #1378 on: September 06, 2020, 04:40:16 PM »

I have given up on this box set.

Would be so happy to be proven wrong but I doubt it

+1

Let's not give up this fight. Not now, not ever. There is NO way I can conceive this is being held up or canceled for any legitimate reason. I feel like we all need a peptalk here!

Brian wants this box out. (His socials wouldn't be dropping hints if he wanted to quash fans from keeping this era's material in mind). That's reason enough to keep fighting, to not stay silent but to keep spreading the word, and to remain optimistic that there will be light at the end of the tunnel.

Whoever is trying to eliminate this box it from existence would very much like every fan who is complaining to simply stop complaining, and for this to be buried. Why would fans want to give in to such a dastardly desire that somebody in power unfortunately surely has?

The way the Beautiful Dreamer doc showed a weight was lifted off Brian's shoulders when SMiLE was finally completed and presented? After all the BS baggage he'd dealt with from others (Mike namely, per Brian's own words in that doc)... not that this era's music necessarily means quite as much to Brian by comparison, but I think the circumstantial evidence shows he wants this music released, and it should stoke a fire in every fan to *continue* to do everything possible to see that Brian's wishes would not be blocked for any reason, and not give in to blocking reasons that surely amount to assclownery.

IMHO, it's a slap in the face to Brian, to his late brothers, and to the wonderful folks who slaved over assembling this set, for us to just be negative, pessimistic, fold our cards and be inactive about this.

At a certain point, the band known as the Beach Boys will no longer be playing shows, and that revenue stream will dry up. And archival releases (and licensing) will be the only way to continue monetizing the brand. This is why I am optimistic, and feel at some point this music is going to come out, but of course it should come out now.

This can't stay locked up forever when there is demand that will equate into the six figures, Plus a bunch of positive press. And when there is money to be made by journalists getting ad revenue to write about this and investigate what's going on here. Which I heartily welcome.

It's completely nuts to think that we have to be fighting for this - fighting for the band to *make* money and get *positive* press, but such is the situation with this ridiculous yet fantastic band. Put a disgruntled, vengeful narcissist with a giant chip on their shoulder in a band and watch what happens, logic tells me this is probably a case study in that. Brian has been on the receiving end of vengeance for many decades, which makes me sick. This is why it does not seem out of the ordinary to assume that could have a role in what's happening here. I very much welcome evidence that shows I'm incorrect, because I actually want to be.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 05:50:57 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1379 on: September 06, 2020, 06:53:39 PM »

I don't see how they can not release at least some of the material by December. The Beach Boys have done some insanely dumb things over the years, but they aren't stupid enough to risk losing the legal right to their own recordings.
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« Reply #1380 on: September 06, 2020, 08:14:11 PM »

I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  Cool Guy
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« Reply #1381 on: September 06, 2020, 10:00:11 PM »

I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  Cool Guy
No, the problem is, most of us do NOT want it released as just some kind of necessary evil. "If we don't release this material, any fool can claim ownership and do whatever they want with it...so we better just do it as a copyright dump".
I was disappointed that the Friends/2020 era material didn't get a proper presentation. Part of the appeal of the physical format is what comes with it - mainly, the packaging, booklet notes, photos, etc. You don't get anything like that with just a digital release.
Looking back, I'm amazed we got Sunshine Tomorrow on cd. Granted, it wasn't a box set, just a simple 2 cd set - but there sure crammed a lot of material onto those 2 cd's. I would accept a similar release for the Sunflower/Surf's Up material if the box is truly not possible to get out.
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« Reply #1382 on: September 06, 2020, 10:29:51 PM »

I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  Cool Guy
No, the problem is, most of us do NOT want it released as just some kind of necessary evil. "If we don't release this material, any fool can claim ownership and do whatever they want with it...so we better just do it as a copyright dump".
I was disappointed that the Friends/2020 era material didn't get a proper presentation. Part of the appeal of the physical format is what comes with it - mainly, the packaging, booklet notes, photos, etc. You don't get anything like that with just a digital release.
Looking back, I'm amazed we got Sunshine Tomorrow on cd. Granted, it wasn't a box set, just a simple 2 cd set - but there sure crammed a lot of material onto those 2 cd's. I would accept a similar release for the Sunflower/Surf's Up material if the box is truly not possible to get out.

An option of physical and/or digital is of course ideal, but I think very few fans would be egregiously upset if the full, intact set was going to be released, but digital only. Yet I cannot see what's happening here as being something that is somehow over something as grand scheme of things trivial as a behind the scenes debate/disagreement over release format. The media blackout and other circumstantial factors seem to heavily suggest the entire release is in jeopardy, regardless of format, for content reasons. As in somebody, some organization, ridiculously having a bug up their butt that it should come out at all.

Everyone would certainly agree a physical release would be nice, but the format in which this music comes out should be the absolute least important thing that fans should be concerned about. That's like worrying about if the seats are comfortable on the Titanic life rafts. To ensure it comes out whatsoever should be the focus here.  That tremendously great and historically significant music is in jeopardy for what most certainly has to be some BS reasons should royally piss everybody off. Nobody should brush it off as some sort of unimportant thing for this band. A non release would be a big deal and a very, very sad situation. Downright tragic from a music history perspective, if you ask me.

That said, one would think the band would certainly generate more income from a physical set, not to mention more critical praise and enhancement for the brand. But I will cry no tears if this comes out intact, digital only.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 10:37:41 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1383 on: September 06, 2020, 11:38:44 PM »

Could it be that Mike is insisting “the band” be touring in support for such a major release?
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« Reply #1384 on: September 06, 2020, 11:46:49 PM »

I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  Cool Guy
No, the problem is, most of us do NOT want it released as just some kind of necessary evil. "If we don't release this material, any fool can claim ownership and do whatever they want with it...so we better just do it as a copyright dump".
I was disappointed that the Friends/2020 era material didn't get a proper presentation. Part of the appeal of the physical format is what comes with it - mainly, the packaging, booklet notes, photos, etc. You don't get anything like that with just a digital release.
Looking back, I'm amazed we got Sunshine Tomorrow on cd. Granted, it wasn't a box set, just a simple 2 cd set - but there sure crammed a lot of material onto those 2 cd's. I would accept a similar release for the Sunflower/Surf's Up material if the box is truly not possible to get out.

An option of physical and/or digital is of course ideal, but I think very few fans would be egregiously upset if the full, intact set was going to be released, but digital only. Yet I cannot see what's happening here as being something that is somehow over something as grand scheme of things trivial as a behind the scenes debate/disagreement over release format. The media blackout and other circumstantial factors seem to heavily suggest the entire release is in jeopardy, regardless of format, for content reasons. As in somebody, some organization, ridiculously having a bug up their butt that it should come out at all.

Everyone would certainly agree a physical release would be nice, but the format in which this music comes out should be the absolute least important thing that fans should be concerned about. That's like worrying about if the seats are comfortable on the Titanic life rafts. To ensure it comes out whatsoever should be the focus here.  That tremendously great and historically significant music is in jeopardy for what most certainly has to be some BS reasons should royally piss everybody off. Nobody should brush it off as some sort of unimportant thing for this band. A non release would be a big deal and a very, very sad situation. Downright tragic from a music history perspective, if you ask me.

That said, one would think the band would certainly generate more income from a physical set, not to mention more critical praise and enhancement for the brand. But I will cry no tears if this comes out intact, digital only.

I'm sorry you feel that way. After all the work that was put into this box set, to just toss all that aside and do it as a copyright dump would be a severe letdown. Sure, it's better than nothing, but we're Beach Boys fans, we want the world!
I am guessing that copyright dump is the way this will all go; and as far as a product for the mainstream market, it will probably be Mike's Stars and Stripes Volume 3 or whatever. I really have no desire at all to hear Mike rapping with Kanye West, or see him trying to get cozy with Taylor Swift. Of course, Mike being Mike, the best he can hope or is a duet with the little brother from Hanson, or Jessica Simpson's supertalented younger sister Ashlee.  LOL
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« Reply #1385 on: September 06, 2020, 11:52:51 PM »

I'd love it if Feel Flows got the same treatment as The Smile Sessions or Made In California. But if FF as it exists now(as described by Howie) comes out only as a digital release I would be ecstatic.


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« Reply #1386 on: September 06, 2020, 11:53:42 PM »

I'd love it if Feel Flows got the same treatment as The Smile Sessions or Made In California. But if FF as it exists now(as described by Howie) comes out only as a digital release I would be ecstatic.


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« Reply #1387 on: September 07, 2020, 12:14:10 AM »

So taking two quotes form the above post...Stebbins says "sometimes its a one or two man firing squad", and ESQ says that in regard to archival releases "majority rules the day." So if Mike alone cannot stop an archival release, are we left to believe that Carl's estate also does not want this released? That doesn't make sense, but logically, who is the other "no" vote?

I think the "two man firing squad" refers to Mike and Brian. Obviously Mike is usually the main agitator, but so many of the group's major conflicts have been a struggle between those two forces. I don't really buy in to the whole Melinda-as-abusive-puppetmaster thing, but Mike Love certainly does as evidenced by his post-2012 comments about Brian. And Brian Wilson has a strong "team" these days in terms of PR. I wouldn't be surprised if Mike's frustrations stemmed from the way *Brian's team* feels that Brian should be represented on this set and its liner notes. On Brian's social media, there has definitely been a deliberate effort to change the mythos of him being in bed from 1967 to 1976- which is justified since we all know Brian remained heavily involved at least until 1972-ish. But maybe Mike feels that there is some overcompensating going on and that Brian is hogging the limelight in the narrative about a period in which the other Beach Boys began doing more of the heavy lifting.

I've noticed that too. For instance, Brian's social media team wrote that the inclusion of Brian's songs on Surf's Up is what makes the album a masterpiece - and I couldn't agree more! The others were writing and recording very good, sometimes even great material around that time. But Brian's songs still made all the difference. He clearly wasn't creating as much in terms of quantity but 'Til I Die is not a song you come up with if all you ever do is lay around in bed all day. The story of him pulling back after Smile is so flawed. It's obvious that Brian was still in charge for Wild Honey and Friends, while Carl became more and more involved. He was an-on-and-off participant on the albums that followed but overall he remained a strong presence even into the Holland era.
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« Reply #1388 on: September 07, 2020, 01:44:30 AM »

Perhaps there are those who would prefer to keep that myth intact... the process of avoiding the re-assessing the distribution of truth vs myth has proven most illuminating about a certain lyricist’s mindset and most depressing to watch.
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Just to let you know, no announcements re: FEEL FLOWS will be coming via a fanzine.
If and when the project picks up steam -- I promise you guys will be first to know.





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« Reply #1389 on: September 07, 2020, 09:34:53 AM »

Perhaps there are those who would prefer to keep that myth intact... the process of avoiding the re-assessing the distribution of truth vs myth has proven most illuminating about a certain lyricist’s mindset and most depressing to watch.

What was Mike's perspective on Brian post-'67 in his autobiography? Did he push the bed myth there? I know he did in that ridiculous lawsuit in 2005, but I wasn't sure if he was still trying to spread that myth.

PS, great posts badfinger and phirnis.
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« Reply #1390 on: September 07, 2020, 10:35:26 AM »

I guess fans are supposed to see the bigger picture and worry about the bigger issues in the world...wait, is this after we get on our knees and collectively apologize to the Beach Boys as we were ordered to do earlier this year by the same interests after the trophy hunting kerfuffle?

Hopefully more fans will see it after this. What exactly is it? It isn't hard to find when you know what to look for. Maybe it took this Feel Flows debacle to bring it more into the open.

Choices and words have consequences.

The reactions would suggest some interests don't want the facts revealed to the fan base. Everyone should ask why that would be and who has been in the side of quashing the fan demand for the set.


The entire thing is odd. Any speculation seems to be frowned upon (and people are speculating because we were given some very bad news about this set with no follow up information (and I'm not blaming Howie for this, I completely understand his current silence)). Certain people who do have sway won't even acknowledge the petition or its possible legitimacy (denigrating the number of signatures? That's pretty harsh). We're seemingly told to have patience - yet one of the creators of the set didn't seem to be optimistic at all for the release of the set...so what would we even have patience for? When we show enthusiasm for wanting the set released certain people seem to classify this as entitlement - seemingly berating anyone who makes any effort to try and nudge whoever to greenlight the set.

And the silence all around is deafening.
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« Reply #1391 on: September 07, 2020, 11:06:12 AM »

I guess fans are supposed to see the bigger picture and worry about the bigger issues in the world...wait, is this after we get on our knees and collectively apologize to the Beach Boys as we were ordered to do earlier this year by the same interests after the trophy hunting kerfuffle?

Hopefully more fans will see it after this. What exactly is it? It isn't hard to find when you know what to look for. Maybe it took this Feel Flows debacle to bring it more into the open.

Choices and words have consequences.

The reactions would suggest some interests don't want the facts revealed to the fan base. Everyone should ask why that would be and who has been in the side of quashing the fan demand for the set.


The entire thing is odd. Any speculation seems to be frowned upon (and people are speculating because we were given some very bad news about this set with no follow up information (and I'm not blaming Howie for this, I completely understand his current silence)). Certain people who do have sway won't even acknowledge the petition or its possible legitimacy (denigrating the number of signatures? That's pretty harsh). We're seemingly told to have patience - yet one of the creators of the set didn't seem to be optimistic at all for the release of the set...so what would we even have patience for? When we show enthusiasm for wanting the set released certain people seem to classify this as entitlement - seemingly berating anyone who makes any effort to try and nudge whoever to greenlight the set.

And the silence all around is deafening.

Brian and Al have both acknowledged the music from this era within the last couple weeks, multiple times.  They've given shout-outs to the 50th and 49th birthdays of 2 beloved BBs albums. And 50th bdays for beloved albums don't come every day. These are not albums to be embarrassed about.  This isn't Summer In Paradise's anniversary.

One member named Mike Love has not mentioned those albums at ALL in 2020, and by looking at his social media, you'd never even know it was the birthday of those albums whatsoever. (Mike has in recent years played music such as All I Wanna Do and Til I Die live, so it's not like he outright has an allergic reaction to that music, per se).

Yet, by contrast, Mike Love's social media team HAS commented on a bunch of big (and not-so-big) anniversaries:
 
- on June 27, 2020, Mike publicly wished Bruce a happy birthday
- Brian and Al's birthdays in 2020 (crickets)
- on September 3, 2019, Mike publicly wished Al a happy birthday
- on June 27, 2019 Mike publicly wished Bruce a happy birthday
- on June 20, 2019, Mike publicly wished Brian a happy birthday
- on June 16, 2019, Mike's account went out of its way to post about the 50th anniversary of the BBs playing Prague in 1969
- on June 13, 2019,, Mike's account went out of its way to post about the 36th (?) anniversary of the BBs playing a Reagan White House event

(those last 2 anniversaries obviously can't even remotely compete with the Sunflower/Surf's Up anniversaries in terms of historical significance by any stretch of the imagination, yet they were prioritized while Sunflower/Surf's Up got ignored).

Does anyone see a pattern here? Post February 2020, Mike stopped wishing BOTH Brian and Al their annual birthday greeting. And only Brian and Al; Bruce kept getting his. Some people may laugh this off and think it's overanalyzing, but is it really? Again, Brian and Al must have royally pissed off Mikey by having the audacity to publicly speak about being outraged at his despicable hunting show.

HOW.
DARE.
THEY.

How can anyone think that something pertaining to the relationships from that point on is irrelevant to what's going on here? In other words, Mike has sour grapes and has found a way to stick it to people who have wronged him, and challenged how he used the brand. Do these circumstantial facts suggest otherwise?  Mike is very much known to be a guy who'll gladly cut off his nose to spite his own face. Plus, preceding these posts I mentioned above, there's a huge, regular pattern of Mike heavily promoting the 50th anniversary of various other BBs albums. Yet somehow, it's a coincidence that he goes publicly silent about Sunflower's 50th, AND Surf's Up's 49th, AND Brian AND Al's birthdays, yet Bruce keeps getting birthday shout-outs?

Connect the dots here, people. Convince me that Mike Love isn't causing this holdup out of reasons grown out of some sort of petty vengeance due to the events of February 2020. I can't prove it, but I think things seem to point that way. It sucks.

The fact that Mike in recent years has played music such as All I Wanna Do and Til I Die live, merely tells me he thought he could get something out of playing those songs (critical praise, perhaps, and feeling like he's competing in remotely the same league as Brian's live shows) . "What can doing XYZ do for me?" seems to be his driving force. And what's happening here with FF tells me he thinks he can get something out of f*cking with the release of this set. Either revenge, or attempting some sort of sick revising of history to try and keep media focused on the brand being the early days. Or somebody suggested Mike is maybe trying to get the "whole band" to tour for this box, which if true (I highly doubt it) would be him trying to force a reunion by holding a release hostage. Who'd want to see a reunion that would have come together out of essentially a blackmail situation? But I can't see that being what's happening here.

As rab2591 points out, the silence all around is deafening. It truly is, but most notable is Mike's silence not just about the FF set, but Mike's (and only Mike's) silence about the album anniversaries, and Mike's new (since 2020) silence about the birthdays of Brian and Al. The optics point in a certain direction.

 
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 11:49:44 AM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #1392 on: September 07, 2020, 12:12:44 PM »

With everything that's been said (or not said in this case), I have to think Love saying no to the box is a given. But if there really are only four votes, and it really is majority rule, then as Yoda says, "there is another".

If Brian and Al's anniversary social activity were an indicator (not to mention the latter's tease), it'd seem they'd want it out, which only leaves Carl's estate. What in the world would be their objection?

But then go back to "circular firing squad" and "one or two". If there are only three living, voting members, Carl's estate in a "firing squad" makes no sense, which leaves Mike vs Brian and/or Al. If majority rules, then Brian and Al could simply ignore him, no? Logically then, at least one of those two are voting no as well, which also doesn't make a lot of sense.

There's just not enough information to confidently pinpoint which other party or parties are involved and the precise issues with it, but with all we've been given, I can't imagine the reasons not being spectacularly stupid and petty.
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« Reply #1393 on: September 07, 2020, 12:18:16 PM »

Bruce's birthday:

Al tweeted in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 (but he was a day late)

Brian tweeted never

Mike tweeted each year until now - but only on Facebook in 2020

David tweeted never.

Conclusion: Bruce is holding up the boxset because no one remembered to post a tweet for his birthday this year.

(The obvious corollary is that we only got 3 tracks last year because he was annoyed at Al for missing his birthday)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 12:18:56 PM by BeachBoysCovers » Logged

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« Reply #1394 on: September 07, 2020, 01:03:40 PM »

I think most people are just jumping the gun here and making up their own assumptions.  I'm personally happy with any kind of digital release.  Cool Guy

So you're happy if only 10% of the boxed set is released digitally? You gotta read the full thread, or at least back to page 20-whatever.

We're not making assumptions. We have real information, from people who are involved and people who know what's going on.

It's getting kinda old to see folks pop into this thread and either not read the thread, or ignore it, and make some some sort of uninformed mic-drop comment.

If nothing had been said about this set, and we were just assuming some sort of set should be coming out, then yes, that would be a lot of assumptions.

That's not the case here. A large, lavish, dignified, DESERVED boxed set has been sitting on the shelf finished for months and months and months. If it's not released by the end of the year, we are very unlikely to see *all* of those contents released digitally. But a partial digital release could do more harm than good to getting the full set out.

It goes without saying that we'll deal with whatever comes out, or doesn't come out. But this thing where people are just folding their arms and kicking back and saying "whatever happens is fine", and belittling the movement to get this set released, it's just insulting.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 01:26:38 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #1395 on: September 07, 2020, 01:04:29 PM »

Is it possible it's on hold during the pandemic?

This has been answered a number of times by multiple folks in the thread.

No, COVID has nothing to do with this set not coming out or being scheduled.
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« Reply #1396 on: September 07, 2020, 01:05:37 PM »

Bruce's birthday:

Al tweeted in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2020 (but he was a day late)

Brian tweeted never

Mike tweeted each year until now - but only on Facebook in 2020

David tweeted never.

Conclusion: Bruce is holding up the boxset because no one remembered to post a tweet for his birthday this year.

(The obvious corollary is that we only got 3 tracks last year because he was annoyed at Al for missing his birthday)


Hahaha damn Bruce!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 01:06:04 PM by twentytwenty » Logged
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« Reply #1397 on: September 07, 2020, 01:08:53 PM »

I don't see how they can not release at least some of the material by December. The Beach Boys have done some insanely dumb things over the years, but they aren't stupid enough to risk losing the legal right to their own recordings.

One of the points I've made many times in this thread is that yes, they *would* likely need to put *something* out by the end of the year digitally. But it would not likely be anywhere near the full contents of the box. They'd only need to put out titles that are unreleased and need to be protected. It could end up being closer to that late 2019 "I'm Going Your Way" copyright drop. No cover art, only a hand full of tracks.

I could easily see that minimalist digital release removing even *more* motivation and sense of urgency in ever putting the full set out.
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« Reply #1398 on: September 07, 2020, 01:10:45 PM »

Could it be that Mike is insisting “the band” be touring in support for such a major release?

No. The touring situation has nothing to do with the delays.

If anything, one would *think* there would/should be *more* motivation to move archival product as a revenue stream considering BRI is raking in next to zero from touring revenue.
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« Reply #1399 on: September 07, 2020, 01:18:44 PM »

As I've been saying quite a bit, and I know this is frustrating, trying to guess the why/how and even who about why this set has been delayed is kind of a non-starter. There's no way someone could just guess it.

As far as the "who", I've learned over the years of fandom to never make too many assumptions. These guys have often over the years contradicted themselves and done and said things that make no sense.

Remember that I said some time back that the *content* of the set has nothing to do with the delays. As such, my common sense and BB fan sense would tell me that one wouldn't get too many clues based off of any member or members seeming to have said at various times that they appreciate the 70/71 material.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 01:27:51 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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