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Author Topic: Mike The Melody Maker  (Read 1710 times)
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2019, 10:59:51 AM »

Mike Love does not possess the skills to write a simple pop song. He has, at BEST, a minimal understanding of musical theory. He has said many times how hard he has to focus just to sing a bass part. Anything that lists Mike Love as the sole author, is not telling the whole truth. Now sure, someone around all of these musical influences could surely hum up a melody and with the supervision of someone else, it could be set to a chord progression and vocal harmonies could be expanded on top of it. A good example (and this is about the only thing they remotely have in common) is Jim Morrison of The Doors. He would write these poetic lyrics, come up with these beautiful melodies in his head and then Ray Manzarek would have to sit there and figure out all the harmonies for him and Robby, so they could create the track.

As for Goin' To The Beach...that would be a big success for Mike Love. For Brian Wilson? Harmonizing that song is like knocking out a crossword puzzle.

Just to clarify the point in bold about The Doors: What has been and is still a misconception is how many of the Doors' songs were written by Robby Krieger, specifically those songs that are in perpetual rotation as played on classic rock radio. And by "written" that means words and music. As much as Jim is credited as the band's lyricist, consider how many words to the classic Doors hits were also written by Robby. And it was Robby who often worked out the chords and music if he didn't come in with those elements already formed, to which lyrics were added.

I'm just thinking Manzarek (RIP) is getting the credit more deserved by Robby in the quote above, I know it's off topic but worth pointing out. Robby was the unsung musical guru on a lot of the more popular Doors songs who also brought lyrics to those songs.

With this stuff in mind, I haven't really taken a listen to the Doors' post-Morrison era. I have listened to An American Prayer countless times and really dig it, but I haven't given the other albums a chance at all...are they worth listening to?
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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2019, 11:47:06 AM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2019, 12:05:32 PM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Honestly asking here, what snide comments?
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2019, 12:38:38 PM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Whoa...bro, most of us aren't saying he can't write a song at all! The issue is when the song is credited to him solely which means he wrote the music AND the words, which is mighty tricky when you don't play an instrument (or use music creation software *cough*)
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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2019, 02:00:02 PM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Honestly asking here, what snide comments?
The ones B.E. made, for example. But I don't want to start anything by calling people out specifically. I know some people here probably were thinking of Mike writing "In comparison with Brian", but it didn't read that way to me. But if I misread anybody I'll apologize for it.
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« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2019, 02:12:35 PM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Honestly asking here, what snide comments?
The ones B.E. made, for example. But I don't want to start anything by calling people out specifically. I know some people here probably were thinking of Mike writing "In comparison with Brian", but it didn't read that way to me. But if I misread anybody I'll apologize for it.

Hell, Mozart was a hack compared to Brian. Ok, extremely slight overstatement. Smiley

Maggie did bring up a good point; Mike does play keyboards, which I didn't realize was an actual thing apart from the "Mike Come Back to La" clip
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« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2019, 02:45:50 PM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Honestly asking here, what snide comments?
The ones B.E. made, for example. But I don't want to start anything by calling people out specifically. I know some people here probably were thinking of Mike writing "In comparison with Brian", but it didn't read that way to me. But if I misread anybody I'll apologize for it.

B.E. said they were honestly asking what instruments Mike actually plays, and he got an answer which enlightened a few of us. B.E. also asked had Mike written any original songs by himself, and made a statement that they didn't think Mike knew how to do this (because of their initial impression that Mike didn't play any instruments).

I had forgotten about that 'Crescent Glow' video where Mike plays some guitar, and I never knew he played piano. Over the years I've seriously thought the only instrument he knows how to play is a saxophone. Mike doesn't play instruments on stage, outside of a sax solo how many instrumental credits has he been given in the 50+ year span of this band? I say given the evidence it's easy to think that Mike doesn't play an instrument (and it's easy to forget that Mike plays some instruments)...and thus it's not outside the realm of reality to assume he can't really write songs by himself.

I don't know if B.E. was intentionally trying to be snide, but we also don't need to turn every potential slight towards Mike into a DEFCON 1 emergency.

Frankly, if someone made the statement "I don't think Al Jardine knows how to write a song from scratch" I would just take it as the person not knowing the full extent of Al's contributions, I wouldn't take it as a knock against Al because, just like Mike, he has probably dedicated 99% of his career on collaborating with other artists to create songs and 1% to writing by himself.
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« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2019, 02:50:08 PM »

Agreed. The closest was Rubbersoul's post but even then that was based on Mike's own words. BE's post even admitted he was asking an honest question
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2019, 03:00:42 PM »

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Honestly asking here, what snide comments?
The ones B.E. made, for example. But I don't want to start anything by calling people out specifically. I know some people here probably were thinking of Mike writing "In comparison with Brian", but it didn't read that way to me. But if I misread anybody I'll apologize for it.

Hell, Mozart was a hack compared to Brian. Ok, extremely slight overstatement. Smiley

Maggie did bring up a good point; Mike does play keyboards, which I didn't realize was an actual thing apart from the "Mike Come Back to La" clip

I literally laughed out loud at the Mozart comment. I wouldn't compare Brian to Mozart...McCartney is to Mozart, as Wilson is to Bach.
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« Reply #34 on: July 09, 2019, 03:02:47 PM »

Come to think of it...did Carl write any solo songs? I think he might be the only band member who doesn't have any credited solo tracks solo or with the band aside from Blondie & Ricky
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« Reply #35 on: July 09, 2019, 03:47:31 PM »

I refuse to believe that Mike Love wrote the middle-eight to Let The Wind Blow.

The band's official biographer Byron Preiss wrote: "...'Let The Wind Blow'" (was) one of Mike's most beautiful compositions. Written while in his car, Mike took it to Brian, who changed the melody line, gave it a different beat, and went into the studio to record."  So, it sounds like Mike used the same compositional approach as Brian had on "Surfer Girl" and "Little Saint Nick", in that he composed the melody in his car by singing it or humming it, then after driving went to a piano to finish it...but in Mike's case, he went a step further by going to a pianist (his cousin Brian). Hard to say how the melody might have sounded prior to Brian's involvement, but based on Preiss' comment, I'd wager the beat was a straight 4/4, which Brian changed to 3/4 (due to his then-ongoing obsession with waltzes). I'd also wager than Brian came up with the entire middle-8, but I really don't know.

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« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2019, 03:51:44 PM »

Thanks for the info!
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« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2019, 04:53:21 PM »

I refuse to believe that Mike Love wrote the middle-eight to Let The Wind Blow.

The band's official biographer Byron Preiss wrote: "...'Let The Wind Blow'" (was) one of Mike's most beautiful compositions. Written while in his car, Mike took it to Brian, who changed the melody line, gave it a different beat, and went into the studio to record."  So, it sounds like Mike used the same compositional approach as Brian had on "Surfer Girl" and "Little Saint Nick", in that he composed the melody in his car by singing it or humming it, then after driving went to a piano to finish it...but in Mike's case, he went a step further by going to a pianist (his cousin Brian). Hard to say how the melody might have sounded prior to Brian's involvement, but based on Preiss' comment, I'd wager the beat was a straight 4/4, which Brian changed to 3/4 (due to his then-ongoing obsession with waltzes). I'd also wager than Brian came up with the entire middle-8, but I really don't know.

This is so cool. There's something with writing songs that just clicks when Mike is behind the wheel.
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« Reply #38 on: July 09, 2019, 05:25:16 PM »

I refuse to believe that Mike Love wrote the middle-eight to Let The Wind Blow.

The band's official biographer Byron Preiss wrote: "...'Let The Wind Blow'" (was) one of Mike's most beautiful compositions. Written while in his car, Mike took it to Brian, who changed the melody line, gave it a different beat, and went into the studio to record."  So, it sounds like Mike used the same compositional approach as Brian had on "Surfer Girl" and "Little Saint Nick", in that he composed the melody in his car by singing it or humming it, then after driving went to a piano to finish it...but in Mike's case, he went a step further by going to a pianist (his cousin Brian). Hard to say how the melody might have sounded prior to Brian's involvement, but based on Preiss' comment, I'd wager the beat was a straight 4/4, which Brian changed to 3/4 (due to his then-ongoing obsession with waltzes). I'd also wager than Brian came up with the entire middle-8, but I really don't know.

This is so cool. There's something with writing songs that just clicks when Mike is behind the wheel.

I'd wager Mike may have been singing "Let the wind blow, let the grass grow...etc etc" as a hook idea. He goes to Brian with that, Brian fleshes it out with the answer phrases, the wordless harmonies and counter melodies that answer every "let the..." line. Then I'd wager Brian added the part which he sings, "don't take her out of my life". I'd also think Brian added the bridge which is basically an extension of the earlier "don't take her out of my life".

It got murky later, but during these Capitol years I think you can apply the Beatles calculation to Brian/Mike collaborations which we know are collaborations. If Mike sang an individual line and we know they collaboratred, chances are it's his hook on a given song, and what Brian sang was what Brian added. It's like certain Lennon-McCartney collabs where you can suss out which part was John and which was Paul. Not always, but there are some specific examples where it holds true, like We Can Work It Out.

But consider what Brian did add in the way of chords and backgrounds, along with production, and no one else could do that for a song - Not Mike for sure, and that is not a bust on Mike but a reality.
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« Reply #39 on: July 09, 2019, 06:01:15 PM »

Mike Love does not possess the skills to write a simple pop song. He has, at BEST, a minimal understanding of musical theory. He has said many times how hard he has to focus just to sing a bass part. Anything that lists Mike Love as the sole author, is not telling the whole truth. Now sure, someone around all of these musical influences could surely hum up a melody and with the supervision of someone else, it could be set to a chord progression and vocal harmonies could be expanded on top of it. A good example (and this is about the only thing they remotely have in common) is Jim Morrison of The Doors. He would write these poetic lyrics, come up with these beautiful melodies in his head and then Ray Manzarek would have to sit there and figure out all the harmonies for him and Robby, so they could create the track.

As for Goin' To The Beach...that would be a big success for Mike Love. For Brian Wilson? Harmonizing that song is like knocking out a crossword puzzle.

Just to clarify the point in bold about The Doors: What has been and is still a misconception is how many of the Doors' songs were written by Robby Krieger, specifically those songs that are in perpetual rotation as played on classic rock radio. And by "written" that means words and music. As much as Jim is credited as the band's lyricist, consider how many words to the classic Doors hits were also written by Robby. And it was Robby who often worked out the chords and music if he didn't come in with those elements already formed, to which lyrics were added.

I'm just thinking Manzarek (RIP) is getting the credit more deserved by Robby in the quote above, I know it's off topic but worth pointing out. Robby was the unsung musical guru on a lot of the more popular Doors songs who also brought lyrics to those songs.

With this stuff in mind, I haven't really taken a listen to the Doors' post-Morrison era. I have listened to An American Prayer countless times and really dig it, but I haven't given the other albums a chance at all...are they worth listening to?

Worth a listen, if you're a Doors fan. It comes down to the band being a really, really tight and talented group of musicians...who just happened to have an iconic lead singer who became the classic rock and roll legend of living fast and dying young personified. And he did have a great voice and was a gifted lyricist and poet. So the band backing him didn't get as much attention with the press preferring the scandalous and the headlines that would sell, and when Jim passed the icon passed with him. They couldn't overcome that, no one could. If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

But they did continue making original music and it is worth checking out, it's just the same three guys playing and making the music, minus the icon.
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« Reply #40 on: July 09, 2019, 06:17:43 PM »

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If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

There was a *great* performance they did with the late Scott Weiland (4 years later and I still am not used to typing that Sad  ) that honestly had to potential to lead to something if not for Scott's demons
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« Reply #41 on: July 09, 2019, 06:29:53 PM »

Scott stole that entire program with the two songs he sang with them.
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« Reply #42 on: July 09, 2019, 06:32:09 PM »

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If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

There was a *great* performance they did with the late Scott Weiland (4 years later and I still am not used to typing that Sad  ) that honestly had to potential to lead to something if not for Scott's demons

Was that part of the VH-1 special about 20 years ago, or something else Scott did with them? Because I remember very well watching that VH-1 show when it aired and being blown away by how strong and how tight the Doors were, especially Robby! Robby played guitar like he was possessed, and the show felt as intense at times as one of the "classic" Doors concerts I've seen or heard tapes of, which is really something considering they had if I recall a series of guest singers doing Jim's vocals, and it still worked. If that's the show, and if it's available, I'd recommend everyone watch it to see just how good of a *band* the Doors were, even decades after their classic years.
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« Reply #43 on: July 09, 2019, 06:35:55 PM »

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If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

There was a *great* performance they did with the late Scott Weiland (4 years later and I still am not used to typing that Sad  ) that honestly had to potential to lead to something if not for Scott's demons

Was that part of the VH-1 special about 20 years ago, or something else Scott did with them? Because I remember very well watching that VH-1 show when it aired and being blown away by how strong and how tight the Doors were, especially Robby! Robby played guitar like he was possessed, and the show felt as intense at times as one of the "classic" Doors concerts I've seen or heard tapes of, which is really something considering they had if I recall a series of guest singers doing Jim's vocals, and it still worked. If that's the show, and if it's available, I'd recommend everyone watch it to see just how good of a *band* the Doors were, even decades after their classic years.
Yep, that was it. I saw it when it aired too. I was really excited about the idea of a Doors reunion, but then the drama between John and Ray started.
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« Reply #44 on: July 09, 2019, 06:47:10 PM »

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If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

There was a *great* performance they did with the late Scott Weiland (4 years later and I still am not used to typing that Sad  ) that honestly had to potential to lead to something if not for Scott's demons

Was that part of the VH-1 special about 20 years ago, or something else Scott did with them? Because I remember very well watching that VH-1 show when it aired and being blown away by how strong and how tight the Doors were, especially Robby! Robby played guitar like he was possessed, and the show felt as intense at times as one of the "classic" Doors concerts I've seen or heard tapes of, which is really something considering they had if I recall a series of guest singers doing Jim's vocals, and it still worked. If that's the show, and if it's available, I'd recommend everyone watch it to see just how good of a *band* the Doors were, even decades after their classic years.
Yep, that was it. I saw it when it aired too. I was really excited about the idea of a Doors reunion, but then the drama between John and Ray started.

Same one, very cool. Yes that was the best advertisement and marketing for new Doors activity because they played an *amazing* set on that special. Too bad it fell apart, although now after years I can see both sides, as in John's and Ray's issues and their actions in the wake of all that. I hated to see it unfold because there was so much potential.

Interesting to consider a sidebar topic related to Mike's songwriting and working with Brian, The Doors with Jim and Robby...STP had Robert DeLeo who - unless I'm off on my memory of how it happened (and Billy can remind me...please do!  Grin  ) - was the musical leader of that band, and who would bring in the riffs, ideas, guitar parts, arrangements, etc which the band would flesh out. But Robert DeLeo I believe was the principal writer and arranger for them, although I'm not sure if he had the lyrics too or if Scott did much of that writing. It's interesting to compare the dynamic in that band in terms of who did and wrote what to the other classic bands we're discussing in those terms.
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« Reply #45 on: July 09, 2019, 08:21:48 PM »

Some times it was Rob, sometimes it was Dean . Scott did the vocal melody and harmonic  arrangements .


Here’s a great example of what Scotty brought to the band. The following was s track the DeLeo brothers did with their side band Talk Show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHrgIXpQac


Not that great especially the vocals.

Now here is the rewritten version with Scott


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNk-JnRwihU


Scott played a very little bit of guitar but other than the riff of Tumble in the Rough writing on guitar was not his forte. He didn’t really play an instrument on his solo projects apart from drums, but he hummed and sang with his collaborators.

And to bring this even more back on topic....playing on his 2008 solo album just so happened to be one Probyn Gregory
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« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2019, 12:23:59 AM »

Come to think of it...did Carl write any solo songs? I think he might be the only band member who doesn't have any credited solo tracks solo or with the band aside from Blondie & Ricky

Carl has solo credits on Shut Down Part II (which I always really liked) and Surf Jam off Surfin' USA (which I can't remember off the top of my head).
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Needleinthehay
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« Reply #47 on: July 10, 2019, 12:49:54 AM »

Yeah, dont forget about Mike playing the sax and how he tragically lost it after a show in the 1960s and he was unable to ever get a new one until it was returned to him 50 years later, that very same instrument, which he affectionately called "That stupid piece of sh*t", lovingly. He loved practicing that sax for hours and hours everyday. And boy, he was gifted at it -- some said he was on the road to being one of the greatest sax players ever, in fact John Coltrane once told Charlie Parker that if Mike-the-sax-prodigy kept getting better at the same speed that he had been that within a few years they would be out of jobs because Mike Love's Jazz band was going to one of the greatest jazz trios the world had ever seen, and that Mike had told them secretly he was going to stop being the lead singer of the Beach Boys so he could explore avant garde Jazz with his beloved sax....That he and that sax had a bond stronger than anyone could imagine and in fact, he no longer cared for the company of women, only wanted to practice his sax all day and night. Unfortunately when it was somehow left behind after a beach boys gig (some people think Carl intentionally didnt load it onto the tour bus on the hopes it would stop Mike from leaving the Beach Boys to become a full time sax player) he was so heart broken, he could not find a replacement for his dear sax and quit saxophone all together. Everytime he went to the music store to look for a new one he broke down crying and screaming "youre not my sax! youre not my sax!" And thus, Mike's career as saxophone genius was unfortunately cut short and also he stayed in the Beach Boys for the next 50 years. Carls plan worked.

In fact, for the next 50 years he kept touring the country in the same venues every year hoping to eventually find his sax he left behind. Some people think he toured heavily for money or fame or adulation, but in actuality he was hoping that he might, however small the chance, be reunited with his First Love (in fact, the album title refers to the love had for his sax) And when he finally did a few years back, he was so excited he made a 5 sentence facebook post about it. He could hardly contain his joy.

Some people think the biggest "What If" in a career of "What Ifs" concerning the Beach Boys is what if Smile had been released when it was originally planned or what if Brian never went into Landys care the second time? But for me, I wonder just how incredible Mike could've been on the sax had he not lost it that fateful night in 1965. Would he have completely redefined the limits of what was possible with the instrument? Would Jazz be main stream now instead of Rock? Would Mike be considered the genius now instead of Brian? So many questions we will never know the answer to....if only....if only....
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 01:13:35 AM by Needleinthehay » Logged
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« Reply #48 on: July 10, 2019, 03:52:20 AM »

Mike Love does not possess the skills to write a simple pop song. He has, at BEST, a minimal understanding of musical theory. He has said many times how hard he has to focus just to sing a bass part. Anything that lists Mike Love as the sole author, is not telling the whole truth. Now sure, someone around all of these musical influences could surely hum up a melody and with the supervision of someone else, it could be set to a chord progression and vocal harmonies could be expanded on top of it. A good example (and this is about the only thing they remotely have in common) is Jim Morrison of The Doors. He would write these poetic lyrics, come up with these beautiful melodies in his head and then Ray Manzarek would have to sit there and figure out all the harmonies for him and Robby, so they could create the track.

As for Goin' To The Beach...that would be a big success for Mike Love. For Brian Wilson? Harmonizing that song is like knocking out a crossword puzzle.

Just to clarify the point in bold about The Doors: What has been and is still a misconception is how many of the Doors' songs were written by Robby Krieger, specifically those songs that are in perpetual rotation as played on classic rock radio. And by "written" that means words and music. As much as Jim is credited as the band's lyricist, consider how many words to the classic Doors hits were also written by Robby. And it was Robby who often worked out the chords and music if he didn't come in with those elements already formed, to which lyrics were added.

I'm just thinking Manzarek (RIP) is getting the credit more deserved by Robby in the quote above, I know it's off topic but worth pointing out. Robby was the unsung musical guru on a lot of the more popular Doors songs who also brought lyrics to those songs.

With this stuff in mind, I haven't really taken a listen to the Doors' post-Morrison era. I have listened to An American Prayer countless times and really dig it, but I haven't given the other albums a chance at all...are they worth listening to?

Worth a listen, if you're a Doors fan. It comes down to the band being a really, really tight and talented group of musicians...who just happened to have an iconic lead singer who became the classic rock and roll legend of living fast and dying young personified. And he did have a great voice and was a gifted lyricist and poet. So the band backing him didn't get as much attention with the press preferring the scandalous and the headlines that would sell, and when Jim passed the icon passed with him. They couldn't overcome that, no one could. If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

But they did continue making original music and it is worth checking out, it's just the same three guys playing and making the music, minus the icon.

Thanks much! I'll give those a whirl today.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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« Reply #49 on: July 10, 2019, 08:52:35 AM »

Some times it was Rob, sometimes it was Dean . Scott did the vocal melody and harmonic  arrangements .


Here’s a great example of what Scotty brought to the band. The following was s track the DeLeo brothers did with their side band Talk Show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHrgIXpQac


Not that great especially the vocals.

Now here is the rewritten version with Scott


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNk-JnRwihU


Scott played a very little bit of guitar but other than the riff of Tumble in the Rough writing on guitar was not his forte. He didn’t really play an instrument on his solo projects apart from drums, but he hummed and sang with his collaborators.


Very cool. I liked Talk Show, but Scott had that presence and one of those force of nature type voices that could elevate a song. I feel the same about another tragic loss we had (too damn many, right? ) with Chris Cornell: When you hear the Audioslave songs, it's a terrific rhythm section, tight as all hell as expected with the RATM guys and making some great songs, but Chris' vocals made those tracks soar beyond the songs themselves. It's like Scott with STP, Chester, Morrison, Mercury, etc...the list goes on.

I compare it to The Doors, where Morrison was such a powerful force, when he's gone it's hard to overcome that in terms of plugging in another 1/4 of a tight band to try replacing the loss...because you can't. And that's the sad part in some cases because the other 3/4ths of the band is still there and doing what they do best, but that key element is gone.

In terms of The Beach Boys, what they had going for them was multiple lead singers. If a member wasn't available at a given time, they still had at least 4 (or more at times) lead voices to carry the tunes. Contrary to some revisionism, there was never a sole lead singer or lead voice in the band, and that was always their strength. But like some fans are with The Doors without Morrison, it's hard to go beyond the full classic lineup and get the same gut reaction they had hearing the classic lineup with all voices present under that name.
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