The Smiley Smile Message Board

There’s Love the lyricist and Big Sur, where he wrote the words and music but are there other Beach Boys songs where Mike wrote at least part of the melody or most/all of the music? I recall reading that Mike had written the melody for Let The Wind Blow and Anna Lee The Healer. Anyone know if this is true and of other examples?

Sumahama and Everyone’s in Love with you.

Allegedly All I Wanna Do.

Brian has stated that Mike helped with the music of "Little Honda", so presumably his contribution there was melodic.

According to the credits, Brian wrote the melody, Mike wrote the lyrics. Another lawsuit?

I’ve heard this, too, although Brian may have assisted with the music aspect of the composition. Perhaps Mike was inspired by TM and may very well have composed some of the music for AIWD/Sunflower and Friends...Who Knows?

I have also read online that Mike wrote the music for "Let the Wind Blow," but to my knowledge he himself has never claimed that, only saying that he wrote the poem upon which the song is based and that Brian set it to music. (I believe Brian has said the same thing.)

By Mike's own account, his main musical contribution to Beach Boys songs was usually hook lines. For example:

* Mike composed the single-note "round round get around, I get around" part (based on "ba-ba-ba, ba-Barbra Ann") which Brian then turned around
* Mike credits himself with writing most of "Surfin' Safari" if I remember correctly, or at least the verse melody (plus lyrics, of course). Mike's account in his book actually understates his authorship a bit, but from what he says it's clear that he composed the majority of the copyrightable elements of the song.

I think it is true that Mike wrote the r&b style verses of "Anna Lee." I am less sure about "All I Wanna Do." It becomes both easier and harder to track Mike's contributions after about 1965 -- easier, because Mike increasingly got solo credits as he worked with Brian less, but harder, because Mike's book doesn't include as much detail about the songwriting and recording process after this point.

But his accounts in his book about his melodic contributions to the early stuff are very credible and detailed. You can hear a lot of Mike's musical frame of mind whenever they get into a kind of R&B vein with the vocal chants. I suspect he made a lot of musical contributions to the Wild Honey album.

Agree, magie, AIWD isn't the type song Mike could be capable to write. & AL got simplistic melody in verses that fits Mike. Mike's main strength is lyrics, there he made impressive things.

Well the track for All I Wanna Do was on the recent 1968 release-so Brian seems to have recorded that long in advance of Mike writing lyrics-I really doubt that Mike wrote that melody-especially as Brian was still quite involved when the tracking session took place-as compared to 1970

I'm sure Mike has refined a few melodies and bass parts over the years, but is there any evidence of him writing songs from scratch? I don't think he knows how.

BE, of course he knows how. He received sole writing credit for stuff like Everyone's In Love With You, Brian's Back, Unleash The Love, etc...

You think Mike wrote those songs entirely on his own? On which instrument do you think he composed them on? I'm honestly asking. If I'm wrong, so be it. I just always assumed that people like Ron Altbach (and/or whoever else was in his orbit at the time) wrote most of the music for Mike's songs. I figured, he'd have an idea for a song, have some lyrics, but he'd have to enlist someone to actually write the music.

Yeah, those songs all have relatively simple chord changes, they wouldn't require virtuoso-like playing to write.

Here's a video from Mike's FB page of him playing Crescent Moon on guitar. You can see he definitely doesn't have the chops of Carl Wilson or Al Jardine, but could definitely piece together a pop song.   https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMikeLove/videos/1124214947657345/

I’m hoping no one brings up Goin’ To The Beach. I do love the song, as sad as that sounds, and Mike may have had the idea and possibly the melody, but who added chords and backing vocal arrangements and then went uncredited? Brian.

Face it, Mike Love is not a songwriter and whatever he's ''credited" with, he's had crutches provided to come up with "his" final product. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Brian didn't add something here and there to flesh out what the lovester couldn't come up with to make it whole. You have to look at Kokomo in which the song was basically already written and all Mike had to do was rewrite the words and easily change the rhythm of the original song and I'm sure he received help doing that alone. Credit can easily be given out as witnessed by WIBN which he did not deserve. Looking at his track record, most of "his" output has not been received well or totally ignored with most efforts being embarrassing at best.

Yep, and there’s video evidence

Mike Love does not possess the skills to write a simple pop song. He has, at BEST, a minimal understanding of musical theory. He has said many times how hard he has to focus just to sing a bass part. Anything that lists Mike Love as the sole author, is not telling the whole truth. Now sure, someone around all of these musical influences could surely hum up a melody and with the supervision of someone else, it could be set to a chord progression and vocal harmonies could be expanded on top of it. A good example (and this is about the only thing they remotely have in common) is Jim Morrison of The Doors. He would write these poetic lyrics, come up with these beautiful melodies in his head and then Ray Manzarek would have to sit there and figure out all the harmonies for him and Robby, so they could create the track.

As for Goin' To The Beach...that would be a big success for Mike Love. For Brian Wilson? Harmonizing that song is like knocking out a crossword puzzle.

I think Carl had as much to do with the musical arrangement of "Goin' To The Beach" as Brian...in that video, Mike mentions how he played the song for Carl, who then did a demo on the guitar. After that came the point where Brian added the vocal backgrounds at the piano.

Another good example would be Stevie Nicks...Lindsey Buckingham came up with arrangements for her F Mac tunes, therefore contributing a lot to how songs like "Landslide" and "Dreams" ended up sounding, but the sole writing credit goes to Nicks. I think it's a case of singers coming up with a melody and maybe adding simple three-note chords behind it, then a guitarist and/or keyboardist fleshing things out arrangement-wise.

To say nothing of Captain Beefheart and The Magic Band, particularly Drumbo (John French), who had to transcribe Beefheart's piano basics into something the band could play. Not putting Beefheart down--I love that man!--but the MB did so much for his songs and went entirely uncredited.   

Mike has been playing keyboard/piano since he was a child.

I refuse to believe that Mike Love wrote the middle-eight to Let The Wind Blow.

Also with his Terry Melcher collaborations, Mike
must have played at least a minor role in shaping the song structures and melodies. However I think Brian deserved a credit on Getcha Back which is reminiscent of Don't Worry Baby. 

I think Bruce Springsteen deserves a writing credit too ;D half kidding, but that song sounds exactly like ‘Hungry Heart’ - which is funny because didn’t Mike do a cover of ‘Hungry Heart’?

Just to clarify the point in bold about The Doors: What has been and is still a misconception is how many of the Doors' songs were written by Robby Krieger, specifically those songs that are in perpetual rotation as played on classic rock radio. And by "written" that means words and music. As much as Jim is credited as the band's lyricist, consider how many words to the classic Doors hits were also written by Robby. And it was Robby who often worked out the chords and music if he didn't come in with those elements already formed, to which lyrics were added.

I'm just thinking Manzarek (RIP) is getting the credit more deserved by Robby in the quote above, I know it's off topic but worth pointing out. Robby was the unsung musical guru on a lot of the more popular Doors songs who also brought lyrics to those songs.

In terms of Mike Love credited as a sole author, I agree: He writes lyrics and adds hooks, and often after the musical structure of a song or idea is already in place. Just check comments from those including Brian, Andy Paley, etc going back decades...and also note how Kokomo came together, and consider Mike would often come in at the tail end to add some phrase to make a song "25% better" (for those who get that reference  ;D  ).

I'm still wondering how and why Altbach was left off the official credits for Mike's Christmas song a few years ago when even Mike's own website lists Altbach as a writer.

With this stuff in mind, I haven't really taken a listen to the Doors' post-Morrison era. I have listened to An American Prayer countless times and really dig it, but I haven't given the other albums a chance at all...are they worth listening to?

Is it really necessary to make snide comments about thinking that Mike doesn't know how to write a song?!? Give the man a fucking break. He's been in the music business for nearly 60 years. Let's see you guys try to write a number 1 song. You're all making him out to be a damn drooling idiot that can't put two and two together.

Honestly asking here, what snide comments?

Whoa...bro, most of us aren't saying he can't write a song at all! The issue is when the song is credited to him solely which means he wrote the music AND the words, which is mighty tricky when you don't play an instrument (or use music creation software *cough*)

The ones B.E. made, for example. But I don't want to start anything by calling people out specifically. I know some people here probably were thinking of Mike writing "In comparison with Brian", but it didn't read that way to me. But if I misread anybody I'll apologize for it.

Hell, Mozart was a hack compared to Brian. Ok, extremely slight overstatement. :)

Maggie did bring up a good point; Mike does play keyboards, which I didn't realize was an actual thing apart from the "Mike Come Back to La" clip

B.E. said they were honestly asking what instruments Mike actually plays, and he got an answer which enlightened a few of us. B.E. also asked had Mike written any original songs by himself, and made a statement that they didn't think Mike knew how to do this (because of their initial impression that Mike didn't play any instruments).

I had forgotten about that 'Crescent Glow' video where Mike plays some guitar, and I never knew he played piano. Over the years I've seriously thought the only instrument he knows how to play is a saxophone. Mike doesn't play instruments on stage, outside of a sax solo how many instrumental credits has he been given in the 50+ year span of this band? I say given the evidence it's easy to think that Mike doesn't play an instrument (and it's easy to forget that Mike plays some instruments)...and thus it's not outside the realm of reality to assume he can't really write songs by himself.

I don't know if B.E. was intentionally trying to be snide, but we also don't need to turn every potential slight towards Mike into a DEFCON 1 emergency.

Frankly, if someone made the statement "I don't think Al Jardine knows how to write a song from scratch" I would just take it as the person not knowing the full extent of Al's contributions, I wouldn't take it as a knock against Al because, just like Mike, he has probably dedicated 99% of his career on collaborating with other artists to create songs and 1% to writing by himself.

Agreed. The closest was Rubbersoul's post but even then that was based on Mike's own words. BE's post even admitted he was asking an honest question

I literally laughed out loud at the Mozart comment. I wouldn't compare Brian to Mozart...McCartney is to Mozart, as Wilson is to Bach.

Come to think of it...did Carl write any solo songs? I think he might be the only band member who doesn't have any credited solo tracks solo or with the band aside from Blondie & Ricky

The band's official biographer Byron Preiss wrote: "...'Let The Wind Blow'" (was) one of Mike's most beautiful compositions. Written while in his car, Mike took it to Brian, who changed the melody line, gave it a different beat, and went into the studio to record."  So, it sounds like Mike used the same compositional approach as Brian had on "Surfer Girl" and "Little Saint Nick", in that he composed the melody in his car by singing it or humming it, then after driving went to a piano to finish it...but in Mike's case, he went a step further by going to a pianist (his cousin Brian). Hard to say how the melody might have sounded prior to Brian's involvement, but based on Preiss' comment, I'd wager the beat was a straight 4/4, which Brian changed to 3/4 (due to his then-ongoing obsession with waltzes). I'd also wager than Brian came up with the entire middle-8, but I really don't know.

Thanks for the info!

This is so cool. There's something with writing songs that just clicks when Mike is behind the wheel.

I'd wager Mike may have been singing "Let the wind blow, let the grass grow...etc etc" as a hook idea. He goes to Brian with that, Brian fleshes it out with the answer phrases, the wordless harmonies and counter melodies that answer every "let the..." line. Then I'd wager Brian added the part which he sings, "don't take her out of my life". I'd also think Brian added the bridge which is basically an extension of the earlier "don't take her out of my life".

It got murky later, but during these Capitol years I think you can apply the Beatles calculation to Brian/Mike collaborations which we know are collaborations. If Mike sang an individual line and we know they collaboratred, chances are it's his hook on a given song, and what Brian sang was what Brian added. It's like certain Lennon-McCartney collabs where you can suss out which part was John and which was Paul. Not always, but there are some specific examples where it holds true, like We Can Work It Out.

But consider what Brian did add in the way of chords and backgrounds, along with production, and no one else could do that for a song - Not Mike for sure, and that is not a bust on Mike but a reality.

Worth a listen, if you're a Doors fan. It comes down to the band being a really, really tight and talented group of musicians...who just happened to have an iconic lead singer who became the classic rock and roll legend of living fast and dying young personified. And he did have a great voice and was a gifted lyricist and poet. So the band backing him didn't get as much attention with the press preferring the scandalous and the headlines that would sell, and when Jim passed the icon passed with him. They couldn't overcome that, no one could. If the remaining three Doors had cut a record better than their best with Jim, I doubt the masses would be able to get past the "But there's no Jim" tag no matter how good they'd be. That is impossible to overcome in most cases.

But they did continue making original music and it is worth checking out, it's just the same three guys playing and making the music, minus the icon.

There was a *great* performance they did with the late Scott Weiland (4 years later and I still am not used to typing that :(  ) that honestly had to potential to lead to something if not for Scott's demons

Scott stole that entire program with the two songs he sang with them.

Was that part of the VH-1 special about 20 years ago, or something else Scott did with them? Because I remember very well watching that VH-1 show when it aired and being blown away by how strong and how tight the Doors were, especially Robby! Robby played guitar like he was possessed, and the show felt as intense at times as one of the "classic" Doors concerts I've seen or heard tapes of, which is really something considering they had if I recall a series of guest singers doing Jim's vocals, and it still worked. If that's the show, and if it's available, I'd recommend everyone watch it to see just how good of a *band* the Doors were, even decades after their classic years.

Yep, that was it. I saw it when it aired too. I was really excited about the idea of a Doors reunion, but then the drama between John and Ray started.

Same one, very cool. Yes that was the best advertisement and marketing for new Doors activity because they played an *amazing* set on that special. Too bad it fell apart, although now after years I can see both sides, as in John's and Ray's issues and their actions in the wake of all that. I hated to see it unfold because there was so much potential.

Interesting to consider a sidebar topic related to Mike's songwriting and working with Brian, The Doors with Jim and Robby...STP had Robert DeLeo who - unless I'm off on my memory of how it happened (and Billy can remind me...please do!  ;D  ) - was the musical leader of that band, and who would bring in the riffs, ideas, guitar parts, arrangements, etc which the band would flesh out. But Robert DeLeo I believe was the principal writer and arranger for them, although I'm not sure if he had the lyrics too or if Scott did much of that writing. It's interesting to compare the dynamic in that band in terms of who did and wrote what to the other classic bands we're discussing in those terms.

Some times it was Rob, sometimes it was Dean . Scott did the vocal melody and harmonic  arrangements .


Here’s a great example of what Scotty brought to the band. The following was s track the DeLeo brothers did with their side band Talk Show

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6SHrgIXpQac


Not that great especially the vocals.

Now here is the rewritten version with Scott


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eNk-JnRwihU


Scott played a very little bit of guitar but other than the riff of Tumble in the Rough writing on guitar was not his forte. He didn’t really play an instrument on his solo projects apart from drums, but he hummed and sang with his collaborators.

And to bring this even more back on topic....playing on his 2008 solo album just so happened to be one Probyn Gregory

Carl has solo credits on Shut Down Part II (which I always really liked) and Surf Jam off Surfin' USA (which I can't remember off the top of my head).

Yeah, dont forget about Mike playing the sax and how he tragically lost it after a show in the 1960s and he was unable to ever get a new one until it was returned to him 50 years later, that very same instrument, which he affectionately called "That stupid piece of sh*t", lovingly. He loved practicing that sax for hours and hours everyday. And boy, he was gifted at it -- some said he was on the road to being one of the greatest sax players ever, in fact John Coltrane once told Charlie Parker that if Mike-the-sax-prodigy kept getting better at the same speed that he had been that within a few years they would be out of jobs because Mike Love's Jazz band was going to one of the greatest jazz trios the world had ever seen, and that Mike had told them secretly he was going to stop being the lead singer of the Beach Boys so he could explore avant garde Jazz with his beloved sax....That he and that sax had a bond stronger than anyone could imagine and in fact, he no longer cared for the company of women, only wanted to practice his sax all day and night. Unfortunately when it was somehow left behind after a beach boys gig (some people think Carl intentionally didnt load it onto the tour bus on the hopes it would stop Mike from leaving the Beach Boys to become a full time sax player) he was so heart broken, he could not find a replacement for his dear sax and quit saxophone all together. Everytime he went to the music store to look for a new one he broke down crying and screaming "youre not my sax! youre not my sax!" And thus, Mike's career as saxophone genius was unfortunately cut short and also he stayed in the Beach Boys for the next 50 years. Carls plan worked.

In fact, for the next 50 years he kept touring the country in the same venues every year hoping to eventually find his sax he left behind. Some people think he toured heavily for money or fame or adulation, but in actuality he was hoping that he might, however small the chance, be reunited with his First Love (in fact, the album title refers to the love had for his sax) And when he finally did a few years back, he was so excited he made a 5 sentence facebook post about it. He could hardly contain his joy.

Some people think the biggest "What If" in a career of "What Ifs" concerning the Beach Boys is what if Smile had been released when it was originally planned or what if Brian never went into Landys care the second time? But for me, I wonder just how incredible Mike could've been on the sax had he not lost it that fateful night in 1965. Would he have completely redefined the limits of what was possible with the instrument? Would Jazz be main stream now instead of Rock? Would Mike be considered the genius now instead of Brian? So many questions we will never know the answer to....if only....if only....

Thanks much! I'll give those a whirl today.

Very cool. I liked Talk Show, but Scott had that presence and one of those force of nature type voices that could elevate a song. I feel the same about another tragic loss we had (too damn many, right? ) with Chris Cornell: When you hear the Audioslave songs, it's a terrific rhythm section, tight as all hell as expected with the RATM guys and making some great songs, but Chris' vocals made those tracks soar beyond the songs themselves. It's like Scott with STP, Chester, Morrison, Mercury, etc...the list goes on.

I compare it to The Doors, where Morrison was such a powerful force, when he's gone it's hard to overcome that in terms of plugging in another 1/4 of a tight band to try replacing the loss...because you can't. And that's the sad part in some cases because the other 3/4ths of the band is still there and doing what they do best, but that key element is gone.

In terms of The Beach Boys, what they had going for them was multiple lead singers. If a member wasn't available at a given time, they still had at least 4 (or more at times) lead voices to carry the tunes. Contrary to some revisionism, there was never a sole lead singer or lead voice in the band, and that was always their strength. But like some fans are with The Doors without Morrison, it's hard to go beyond the full classic lineup and get the same gut reaction they had hearing the classic lineup with all voices present under that name.

 :lol

Agreed on all counts.

And you know the saying "the whole is more than the sum of the parts"? Well, with the Beach Boys, those parts were better than most bands's wholes.

Amen. But then again, their worst(SIP) is often worse than another group's entire catalogue.  :lol

That’s also true!

To my point regarding how a non-instrumentalist can come up with song which is then fleshed out by a skilled instrumentalist-arranger, here is a quote from Christine McVie regarding the Nicks composition "Dreams":
“When Stevie first played it for me on the piano, it was just three chords and one note in the left hand,” she said. “But the Lindsey genius came into play and he fashioned three sections out of identical chords, making each section sound completely different.”

I'm sure it's much the same when Mike writes a song on his own:  it's quite simple it's basic form, but whoever arranges it puts it into a more finshed state, as was done with "Dreams".

When the band really, *really* needed new original material at various points in their history, where was Mike's songwriting prowess to offer the group something they needed? When the labels were demanding new music, if songwriting were that simple of a process to sketch out a few melodies and chords here and there, why wasn't it done to any degree of success or even to produce a commercially viable original song when the labels wanted one? The biggest success the band had up to 2012 was the song Kokomo that was not original and which had 4 co-writers (for which Mike takes more credit than what he actually did for that song).

Not debating the first part of your post - I wouldn't ever claim that Mike has been a prolific melody-maker, and by his own admission his main conbtributions have been adding lyrics and sometimes bass vocal hooks to songs began by others - but for songs credited solely to him, like for instance "Big Sur", "Goin' To The Beach" and "Sumahama" - they certainly could have come into being in the above manner (Mike had the melody and lyrics, and probably simple three-note chord progressions to go behind them, after which a skilled instrumentalist fashioned the recorded arrangement). However, I do debate your statement that Mike takes more credit on the Beach Boys' version of "Kokomo" than what he deserves - not only did he come up with the "Aruba, Jamaica" hook (the one "earworm" part of the song that people always seem to sing along with), but also the lyrics for the second verse. I would definitely say that's worthy of one-fourth the songwriting credits, same as Terry got for composing the bit that Carl sings, and that Scott McKenzie got for whatever his contribution was.

On "Wouldn't It Be Nice", however, it's a different story - which is why I credit it thusly on my website: 
Music - Brian Wilson / Words - Tony Asher, title by Brian Wilson / Additional lyrics - Mike Love

Agreed on Kokomo that he deserves 25% credit, except that in interviews he would talk about Kokomo as if he wrote the whole thing.  I have never heard him give credit to the other 3 songwriters.

Mike has talked about how he took John Phillip's original composition, changed the tempo and the tense, added that bass vocal hookline, and wrote new lyrics for the second verse. He's also mentioned Terry Melcher's contribution, and stated he doesn't know what Scott McKenzie contributed. But yes, in many interviews Mike will remind us how he made "Kokomo" the commercial hit it is (which is true, from a rewrite standpoint - but I'd also credit its success in part to Terry, for producing it, and Van Dyke, for bringing in musicians like Ry Cooder and Jim Keltner, and the steel drum players - and of course credit should go to Carl, Al, and Bruce for singing some great vocals on the thing). He'll also remind us of how he took Brian's avant garde masterpiece "Good Vibrations" and made it a commercially viable boy-girl pop hit. On that one, we know that Tony Asher's original, unused lyrics also explored a boy-girl theme, so it's hard to say if it would've been as big a hit without Mike's lyrics (which, objectively, I think are better than Tony's), but I think it would've come close, no matter what.

I don't know who wrote it, but I  consider the line "I don't know where, but she sends me there" to be one of the greatest song lyrics ever written. It's so simple and to the point. It's slightly sappy, but in a romantic way. And it's ever so slightly psychedelic, and esoteric.

Agree wholeheartedly.

Not as focused on the published credits on Kokomo as much as the multitude of interviews Mike has given where he gives the impression that *he* wrote Kokomo, or was responsible for it, when that's not the reality of how the song came about.

Matt H's post beat me to it earlier - Having read literally dozens if not into the hundreds of Mike's interviews, he rarely mentioned Melcher or Phillips related to Kokomo, let alone gave them a nod of credit for their contributions, and that was the norm for Mike talking about Kokomo when interviewed. Mike usually leaves out both Phillips who wrote the original version and Melcher, especially, since he was the one that solicited the tune from Phillips and brought it to the band, and was one of the 4 co-writers besides producing the track. If Mike had given him/them more credit over the years, myself and Matt H and other fans wouldn't raise it as an issue of Mike implying or seeming to take the majority of credit for it, which he does not deserve.

And then there is this: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8284.msg137316.html#msg137316 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,8284.msg137316.html#msg137316)

Regarding Love/Melcher compositions like Getcha Back, Still Cruisin and Rock and Roll To The Rescue is it safe to say Terry wrote most of the music or was it more of a 50/50 thing?

Actually,  I think Mike could have come up with all the melody and words to a song like AIWD and LTWB. Then Brian arranged it. Think about what Sloop John B was before Brian took off with it. And just because Mike couldn't preform on the piano or guitar doesn't mean he isn't familiar enough with the chords to write a song. I'm not saying he did. I really don't know.

I remember Terry saying in an interview (with Beach Boys Australia, I believe) something that writing with Mike was a bit like a karate match - which I took to mean there was a lot of back-and-forth, and sometimes sparring.

I'm almost surprised that in Phillips' lifetime, that Phillips never publicly made a stink about Mike giving the impression in interviews of hogging credits for Kokomo. I mean, that's what Mike would do if the shoe was on the other foot. I guess Phillips was a train wreck and was focused on other things, and/or he gave no f*cks about the song or Mike. But the point being that yes, I concur that Mike's endless interviews proclaiming his massive contributions to the world of music due to Kokomo are both off-putting *and* inaccurate.

That said, I'll certainly agree the song is catchy and I don't doubt that Mike was a part of why that is. Mike deserves credit, but it's his endless bragging that is off-putting and makes people less likely to want to praise him. Which surely must be the opposite of what he wants.  I like Kokomo, even if that's an unpopular opinion. I think it's one of Mike's better vocals.

Sadly, I think Mike is mainly most proud of bragging about Kokomo for the fact that the song was a hit that Mike cowrote and most importantly *doesn't* have writing contributions by Brian.

I mean, really, after 25+ years of hanging around as the lead singer in a band returning to the charts (talking 1961 to "Kokomo" here...), it might be possible for a guy to write a song or two on his own.

Which is just about what Mike did: a song or two.

He seems to be good at tweaking works in progress, and he did progress past the "tight teen lyrics" of the early days--at least for awhile.

"Good Vibrations" is just about the only time that Mike was in on the creative process of a song that mattered to Brian in terms of his personal artistry. (The major exception: "The Warmth of the Sun.") Early on in the process he was routinely bypassed for someone else who brought a different take on the material that Brian clearly responded to in ways that pointed toward musical growth and (often, not always) greater emotional maturity/depth.

The "sparring" that Melcher referenced is probably a variant of the dynamic that Brian didn't enjoy in his work sessions with Mike, which is likely why they became less and less frequent.

And that continuing separation is probably a lot of the reason why Mike remains so elated about the success of "Kokomo" and uses it to justify those never-ending claims that the band would be back on top if Brian would just get in a room with him and work "just like the old days."

And CD, you were asking me to give reasons why I don't like the lovester? Well, there you go with one of his many traits that add up to him being a D'Bag.

I wouldn't say that... how about Please Let Me Wonder or Kiss Me Baby? Those are pretty bold expressions of artistic growth for 1964 that Mike contributed to (how much Mike contributed is a good question which I don't have the answer for).

OSD, I certainly won't argue about the many, many things that Mike has done that are off-putting to say the least. But again, those things (as plentiful and cringe-inducing as they may be) don't cancel out his contributions to a song such as Please Let Me Wonder, which is IMO 100% perfect as is.

Mike can often (or even almost exclusively, depending on your viewpoint) act like a jerk, and also have made some undeniably good contributions to the artistic tapestry of this band. The two are not mutually exclusive, you know? Wouldn't you agree?

That said, if you have the viewpoint that Brian could have arrived at similar artistic points in his growth as an artist without Mike having been present, I wouldn't necessarily argue against that point of view. Considering the positives that Mike contributed to songs, either lyrically and/or vocally (and there are many), nobody should say that those contributions are negligible or crap. Even if you hate Mike's actions as a human.

In fact, I'd even wager that there are moments on some Wilson/Love songs that maybe have given you the "feels" in an emotional way, which may have turned out to be contributions by Mike! Finding that out might feel a bit like the scene in Empire Strikes Back where Luke screams and can't believe that the person he so hates is 50% of his DNA, but for better (and sometimes certainly for worse), Mike's contributions are part of some excellent songs, and all the d-baggery in the world can't make that not the case. I get it though, it's a complex situation.

But let's be real here. Unless you can say that Warmth of the Sun, Please Let Me Wonder, and almost all of Wild Honey are deficient in some artistic way, then you have to at least give Mike credit for having added some good stuff here and there.

CD, I wasn't really speaking of his "contributions" but as long as it was brought up, there's another irritable trait of his. He is definitely the poster boy for blowing his own horn which is a pathetic symptom of his never ending, overblown ego problems. As Don said, he must be a real tool to collaborate with.  No wonder Brian doesn't want anything to do with him.

Have you ever seen another clown wear hats and shirts with their own name on it? The Lovester is a tool.

Hey mag' - wonder why he didn't showcase his "trained since childhood" piano skills. :P :-D