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Author Topic: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)  (Read 13538 times)
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« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2019, 02:38:09 PM »

Mike Love is Brian's equal Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh

 LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL


Nate, I'm sure you're a great guy, but c'mon, man.  Roll Eyes
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« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2019, 02:52:34 PM »

Agree, saying they're equals is stretch.
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« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2019, 10:19:02 AM »

I'm saying they're equal in terms of both just being men. At the end of the day we're all just people.

But obviously BW is the superior talent. 
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« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2019, 03:43:15 PM »

Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.


I honestly though I was the only person for felt that way about Caroline, No...

I'll agree with you guys as well. I far prefer the original-speed version of Caroline, No. And when I play the song, that's what I play. I just think it's far more devastating, somber and emotional. Is it still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set?
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« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2019, 04:28:42 PM »

Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.
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« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2019, 04:49:02 PM »

Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.


I honestly though I was the only person for felt that way about Caroline, No...

I'll agree with you guys as well. I far prefer the original-speed version of Caroline, No. And when I play the song, that's what I play. I just think it's far more devastating, somber and emotional. Is it still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set?

Totally. I know it's just a matter of opinion, but I don't know how anyone can A/B listen to both versions, and say that they find the sped-up version *more* emotionally impactful or fulfilling. It's totally unnatural. It's like Murry was taking a cue from Alvin & The Chipmunks creator Ross Bagdasarian when he suggested it to Brian. Granted, Brian hasn't been modified as much as Alvin, Simon, or Theodore, but it's partway there. Unnatural and unnecessary.

I think that any listener who clings to the viewpoint that the sped-up album is the superior version is simply saying that because they have sentimental attachment from hearing it that way (and only that way) for 31 years, until the box set version was released. Or I suppose it's also because Brian said "okay" and went ahead and approved the speed change in '66 himself. But objectively, I cannot see how in hindsight it can be considered a smart decision artistically speaking. Brian in this era usually made great decisions; this was not one of them. IMHO.

Was it commonly known by fans for decades that the Caroline, No album version was in fact sped-up? Or was that somewhat of an insider secret? If people didn't realize it, I imagine they'd still feel something was a bit off with Brian's voice, but might not have been sure what it was.

I wonder if any fans attempted a homemade pitch-corrected version on their own before the box set was released. I imagine it wouldn't have been all that hard to roughly approximate, that is if they knew the science of the speed parameters that the original was modified by.


Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.


That's a damn shame that it's not on proper streaming services. Good thing for YouTube and my iPod classic.

 
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 04:51:50 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2019, 04:57:40 PM »

Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.

That's a damn shame that it's not on proper streaming services. Good thing for YouTube and my iPod classic.

The tracks (stereo and mono) can still be purchased on iTunes. Weirdly, iTunes mistitles the box set as "40th anniversary".
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« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2019, 12:35:59 PM »

(is afraid get in this conversation about ‘Caroline, No’ because he prefers the sped up version on the album)
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« Reply #58 on: April 03, 2019, 12:48:13 AM »

(is afraid get in this conversation about ‘Caroline, No’ because he prefers the sped up version on the album)


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« Reply #59 on: April 03, 2019, 02:08:21 AM »

IMO, Murry was correct in suggesting that Caroline No be sped up, and Brian made the right call in following his advice.
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« Reply #60 on: April 03, 2019, 06:38:32 AM »

the speeding up of CN was most probably done at the time for the 45 single release, in other words that's what Murry & Capitol felt was necessary if a Brian Wilson solo record was going to have the best radio play chance

the speed change was merely carried over when it was placed on the PS album now as a group effort
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« Reply #61 on: April 03, 2019, 07:32:59 AM »

the speeding up of CN was most probably done at the time for the 45 single release, in other words that's what Murry & Capitol felt was necessary if a Brian Wilson solo record was going to have the best radio play chance

the speed change was merely carried over when it was placed on the PS album now as a group effort


I don't think Capitol had anything to do with that decision. And Murry had nothing to say about their releases (he was fired by then), it was just a suggestion by him to Brian. Brian liked it and wen ahead with it.
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« Reply #62 on: April 03, 2019, 08:19:18 AM »

the speeding up of CN was most probably done at the time for the 45 single release, in other words that's what Murry & Capitol felt was necessary if a Brian Wilson solo record was going to have the best radio play chance

the speed change was merely carried over when it was placed on the PS album now as a group effort

I don't think Capitol had anything to do with that decision. And Murry had nothing to say about their releases (he was fired by then), it was just a suggestion by him to Brian. Brian liked it and went ahead with it.

I don't think he ever changed his mind either. For the Classics Selected By Brian Wilson comp, he said that CN "represents the sweetest I can sing" (which I find very interesting considering it's sped-up). Does anyone recall if he mentioned it in his book?
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« Reply #63 on: April 13, 2019, 01:28:07 AM »

I'm very anti-autotune/pitch correction for a variety of reasons I won't get into, but taking a step back from my own personal preferences, the best analogy is CGI in a film. Does that effect blend in seamlessly, or is it so obviously done that it takes you out of the film entirely like a cheap process shot of a giant lobster in a '50s sci-fi flick? There are many gradations in between and even I would agree there are times that you just can't get the performance and to leave it uncorrected would take you out of the song just as egregiously (though there are ways to get around this other than pitch correction).

I have a lot of trouble with TWGMTR (the album, not the song, which I like a lot) because the processing "takes me out of the movie" as it were, especially on those later tracks which are otherwise very good. I also thought the album was very lacking in top end, and at one point I took the album and remastered it myself, and discovered that when you added in more top all the processing just flew out and became blatantly obvious. So there's a sort of back door effect in that way as well - it's going to affect the overall balance of the EQ and how much spread you can get away with. I remember NPR did a segment where they played something from TWGMTR and WIBN back-to-back and the former really suffered by comparison....very thin and dull, relatively speaking, by contrast to the older track.
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« Reply #64 on: April 16, 2019, 08:39:03 AM »

Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.
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« Reply #65 on: April 16, 2019, 10:41:13 AM »

Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


As with the Beatles Anthology, the idea with a similar BB doc would be that it would be authorized and have BRI involved as a producer, as was the case with "Endless Harmony." The downside of course is that you rarely get the most warts-and-all information. The plus side would be easier access to some archival elements and *some* publishing clearances, more clout from BRI in approaching a partner (e.g. Netflix, HBO, etc.) to finance and air the documentary, and full access to interview the members at length. They could also of course contribute photos, film/video, audio, etc. from their personal archives.

As far as legal issues with entities/people outside of the band, BRI and/or the producing partner would vet all of that through legal.

Somebody should get some prime movers and shakers in the movie and film industry to pitch a long-form BB doc to somebody like Netflix or HBO or Amazon, all of whom are throwing TONS of money at programming right now. One of the biggest costs would be clearing rights to film/video footage (e.g. TV shows, etc.), and paying for sync rights to music outside of the stuff the band owns the publishing for (meaning most of the 60s material).
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« Reply #66 on: April 16, 2019, 12:56:47 PM »

This whole topic has me fantasizing about a Brian album comprised entirely of songs written by Dennis and Carl...
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« Reply #67 on: April 17, 2019, 05:05:48 AM »

Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


As with the Beatles Anthology, the idea with a similar BB doc would be that it would be authorized and have BRI involved as a producer, as was the case with "Endless Harmony." The downside of course is that you rarely get the most warts-and-all information. The plus side would be easier access to some archival elements and *some* publishing clearances, more clout from BRI in approaching a partner (e.g. Netflix, HBO, etc.) to finance and air the documentary, and full access to interview the members at length. They could also of course contribute photos, film/video, audio, etc. from their personal archives.

As far as legal issues with entities/people outside of the band, BRI and/or the producing partner would vet all of that through legal.

Somebody should get some prime movers and shakers in the movie and film industry to pitch a long-form BB doc to somebody like Netflix or HBO or Amazon, all of whom are throwing TONS of money at programming right now. One of the biggest costs would be clearing rights to film/video footage (e.g. TV shows, etc.), and paying for sync rights to music outside of the stuff the band owns the publishing for (meaning most of the 60s material).

A Netflix docu-series would be amazing. They’ve had some good docu-series recently, especially the series Wild Wild Country, and their Formula 1 show is pretty good.

I wonder if Ken Burns would ever tackle the subject - as his docuseries have always been Americana-centered, doing a docuseries on “America’s Band” would only make sense. And I bet such a documentary would cut to the heart of the problems with the relationships in the band - taking both sides of the argument seriously, perhaps even giving some much needed perspective to both sides of the isle.
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« Reply #68 on: April 17, 2019, 07:01:41 AM »

Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


As with the Beatles Anthology, the idea with a similar BB doc would be that it would be authorized and have BRI involved as a producer, as was the case with "Endless Harmony." The downside of course is that you rarely get the most warts-and-all information. The plus side would be easier access to some archival elements and *some* publishing clearances, more clout from BRI in approaching a partner (e.g. Netflix, HBO, etc.) to finance and air the documentary, and full access to interview the members at length. They could also of course contribute photos, film/video, audio, etc. from their personal archives.

As far as legal issues with entities/people outside of the band, BRI and/or the producing partner would vet all of that through legal.

Somebody should get some prime movers and shakers in the movie and film industry to pitch a long-form BB doc to somebody like Netflix or HBO or Amazon, all of whom are throwing TONS of money at programming right now. One of the biggest costs would be clearing rights to film/video footage (e.g. TV shows, etc.), and paying for sync rights to music outside of the stuff the band owns the publishing for (meaning most of the 60s material).

A Netflix docu-series would be amazing. They’ve had some good docu-series recently, especially the series Wild Wild Country, and their Formula 1 show is pretty good.

I wonder if Ken Burns would ever tackle the subject - as his docuseries have always been Americana-centered, doing a docuseries on “America’s Band” would only make sense. And I bet such a documentary would cut to the heart of the problems with the relationships in the band - taking both sides of the argument seriously, perhaps even giving some much needed perspective to both sides of the isle.


But did Burns ever do a documentary focused on one single act? He has his new documentary about Country Music coming out this year, which will also be a multi-part show and of course not about just one artist. I'm sure he would do a great job, I just don't know if it's where his MO is.

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« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2019, 07:32:40 AM »

I don't know if Ken Burns is as invested in the Beach Boys as he was in some of his other projects. I think having a filmmaker who has a deeper connection to the subject matter can also be a double-edged sword, because you may not get an unbiased delivery of the facts, but you'll also get a more personal view overall because the documentarian is ultimately a fan.

One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan. And, more recently, I watched Jim Jarmusch's documentary on The Stooges, where it focused on Iggy Pop himself as much as the band, and I thought it was terrific. It changed my views on Iggy in particular, and I think that's what the best docs tend to do, again like the Dylan film.

In this way, I'm thinking this latest project might be perhaps the best way to capture Brian Wilson on film. Just let the camera roll and let him talk and expand on whatever topics come up.

The other issue with the Beach Boys and any future docs about them might be the way history has been tried to be reshaped and rewritten regarding certain issues surrounding the band and band members, and if the behind-the-scenes campaigning gets into the inner workings of making a documentary about them, you may have someone on camera presented as an authority on this-or-that playing into the rewrite and having it taken as fact. Beyond that, and it's happened before so there is precedent going back decades, the members may be given veto power over the content to where certain topics would be labeled off limits for the film. I don't know at this point, especially after all that has happened, if a truly comprehensive account could be filmed.
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« Reply #70 on: August 09, 2019, 05:44:59 PM »

Has there been any news on when this documentary will be released?
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« Reply #71 on: August 09, 2019, 08:49:27 PM »

Not a word
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« Reply #72 on: August 11, 2019, 06:56:20 AM »

The non sped up Caroline No is the way to go (IMO).   It makes no sense to speed it up.  You don't want the character of the song sounding younger because it's a guy reflecting back on something that he now feels is irrevocably lost.  If Pet Sounds is a guys journey from youthful hope to adult resignation then CN ought to sound mature (and I say that lightly because Brian still sounds young in the non-sped up version) because the guy has grown - through experience and heart break, etc.  Murry was wrong, Brian (gasp!) was wrong and all of you who like the sped up version are wrong!  lol Tongue
And Don't Worry Baby is NOT a car song either.  
So there.  
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« Reply #73 on: August 11, 2019, 11:21:42 AM »

The non sped up Caroline No is the way to go (IMO).   It makes no sense to speed it up.  You don't want the character of the song sounding younger because it's a guy reflecting back on something that he now feels is irrevocably lost.  If Pet Sounds is a guys journey from youthful hope to adult resignation then CN ought to sound mature (and I say that lightly because Brian still sounds young in the non-sped up version) because the guy has grown - through experience and heart break, etc.  Murry was wrong, Brian (gasp!) was wrong and all of you who like the sped up version are wrong!  lol Tongue
And Don't Worry Baby is NOT a car song either.  
So there.  

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« Reply #74 on: August 11, 2019, 05:07:15 PM »

One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan.

That doc was completely made up, at least big portions of it..which brings up a good point, would a fake doc about the BB be worth making/watching? I feel like the reason it worked with Dylan is he has such a mystique, doesnt do interviews, people dont really know much about his life, hell he doesnt even talk between songs on stage... that most of the made up stuff couldve been true and no one wouldve known....but so much more is known about the BBs, especially with Mike constatly doing interviews,  same with Brian, etc I feel like doing the same thing about the BB wouldnt really work....
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