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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: HeyJude on March 25, 2019, 11:20:29 AM



Title: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 25, 2019, 11:20:29 AM
IMDB shows a poster for the Brian documentary that had been mentioned late last year. This appears to be an in-house production (BriMel and Jean Sievers as producers). I'm sure some fans will nitpick using a Carl song in the title, but at least it's something more inspired than "An American Band" or "An American Family." "Endless Harmony" was a good, if rather half-ironic, title for the '98 BB doc.

Anyway, no release date. An odd list of "stars" at the top of the poster. I'm wondering if they interviewed Al Jardine for this; as the film is supposedly more about Brian's solo resurgence over the last 20-ish years, I think reconnecting with Al is a heartwarming part of the story that should be told even in the context of his "solo" career.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BM2NlMDIzMjgtOTBjOC00MDhlLWExZjYtOWQyZjI5N2NmYjMwXkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQ0MzQ1MjQ@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,647,1000_AL_.jpg)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Matt H on March 25, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
I think that poster looks cool!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇 on March 25, 2019, 12:30:51 PM
I think that poster looks cool!

I agree for the most part, although something looks off about the pic of young Brian


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: urbanite on March 25, 2019, 12:32:39 PM
They could have found a better picture of the older Brian at the control panel.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Emdeeh on March 25, 2019, 12:47:18 PM
I do find the choice of one of Carl's song titles for the film more than a bit odd (unless it's meant as a tribute to Carl).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Ebb and Flow on March 25, 2019, 01:21:20 PM
I think that poster looks cool!

I agree for the most part, although something looks off about the pic of young Brian

They mirrored it from the original


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇 on March 25, 2019, 03:58:26 PM
I think that poster looks cool!

I agree for the most part, although something looks off about the pic of young Brian

They mirrored it from the original
Caught that, but whatever type of image filter was used did some strange things to his eyes. Think it's because the whites of his eyes now blend in with his cheeks. It's so minor yet it's throwing me off


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: c-man on March 25, 2019, 04:41:24 PM
The best title would've been "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", but as that had already been used as the title of a Brian documentary (hard to believe it, but nearly 25 years ago now!), the next best would've been "Love And Mercy", but since that was already used as the title of a Brian biopic, they should've just called it "Being Brian Wilson". THAT would've been a GREAT title! Even "Til I Die" or "This Whole World" or "Sail On Sailor" would've been more fitting than the title of a Carl Wilson song! Let's just hope the movie's good.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Shady on March 25, 2019, 07:01:53 PM
They should put it on Netflix


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 25, 2019, 09:29:14 PM
The best title would've been "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times", but as that had already been used as the title of a Brian documentary (hard to believe it, but nearly 25 years ago now!), the next best would've been "Love And Mercy", but since that was already used as the title of a Brian biopic, they should've just called it "Being Brian Wilson". THAT would've been a GREAT title! Even "Til I Die" or "This Whole World" or "Sail On Sailor" would've been more fitting than the title of a Carl Wilson song! Let's just hope the movie's good.

I agree with what you're saying, although I have a hunch maybe Brian picked or approved this title because he misses his brother. Isn't there a video of him backstage on a TV show about 10 years ago playing this song at the piano?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇 on March 25, 2019, 10:12:28 PM
Sure is...loved that clip.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on March 25, 2019, 10:13:32 PM
Brian did end his book with the lyrics from "Long Promised Road" if I recall correctly, it's clearly a song that means a lot to him.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: RiC on March 26, 2019, 01:38:43 AM
I'm sure the title will make sense after seeing the film. It's propably also a reference to the concept of the film. I am really hyped up about this. There are couple behind the scenes photos on the IMDB page as well: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9378672/


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 26, 2019, 06:43:08 AM
People, I'm sure Brian and the director are very aware that the song title is one of Carl's songs. I'm not even convinced they mean for some strong connection to Carl to be indicated by the title (especially if this doc is focused primarily on Brian's last 20 years as a solo artist). I'm guessing they just wanted a title that fit all of the criteria that such a documentary title would need to. In no particular order:

1. Relatively short and succinct
2. Some connection to the Beach Boys/Brian
3. Something not painfully obvious or seemingly trite (e.g. "Fun Fun Fun: The Story of Brian Wilson")
4. Something with a bit of poignancy and/or indication of a long journey
5. Not something similar to a title already used for a doc

Yes, it's a bit odd at first glance that it's a Carl song. Other than that, I think it's an objectively pretty good title for a documentary. It's more immediately indicative of something than just lobbing a random Brian song title out there. "'Til I Die" is one of his most amazing pieces of music, but I'm not sure it's the best title for a doc about Brian's late era resurgence as a solo artist 1998-present.

And again, I'm sure Brian and all of the people working on the film are well aware that "Long Promised Road" is a Carl song. I'm not at all worried about this stealing any thunder away from Carl or his legacy, because Carl's family/estate have put out effectively ZERO product or projects relating to Carl in the last 20 years since his death. Apart from a couple of charity events and CDs tied to those charity events, Carl's estate has done nothing to keep his name out there. Not even a photo-heavy "authorized" biography or just photo book. No CD of solo Carl demos.

Unless Carl's estate was in the middle of producing a documentary on Carl's career with the same title and Brent Wilson snagged the title first, I see no problem with Brian's doc using the name. It's a solid name, and who knows, maybe it'll actually draw more attention to the song if it's featured in the film.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Gettin Hungry on March 26, 2019, 11:24:52 AM
I think that poster looks cool!

I agree for the most part, although something looks off about the pic of young Brian

They mirrored it from the original
Caught that, but whatever type of image filter was used did some strange things to his eyes. Think it's because the whites of his eyes now blend in with his cheeks. It's so minor yet it's throwing me off

I think they also tilted the image up, so his eye line seems odd. But you're right about the filter making his eyes look slightly demonic.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 26, 2019, 12:22:17 PM
People, I'm sure Brian and the director are very aware that the song title is one of Carl's songs. I'm not even convinced they mean for some strong connection to Carl to be indicated by the title (especially if this doc is focused primarily on Brian's last 20 years as a solo artist). I'm guessing they just wanted a title that fit all of the criteria that such a documentary title would need to. In no particular order:

I don't think anyone said or even implied that the director/Brian Wilson were unaware this was a Carl Wilson song. I think others are possibly correct about it being a tribute to Carl (specifically the information in RockyRacoon's post), and that makes me seriously wonder if the title was Brian's idea (or an idea that Brian happily agreed with). I agree though, at first glance it is odd. But the title is actually brilliant. We could've gotten "Let It Shine: The Brian Wilson Story", or "The Last Song: An In Depth Portrait of Brian Wilson" etc etc. But the title doesn't point to any specific Brian Wilson solo album. I also very much agree with HeyJude's #4 criteria "Something with a bit of poignancy and/or indication of a long journey". It's really refreshing they decided to do something out of the ordinary for the title.

I'd also wonder if Brian spent some time recording a few tunes for this documentary (somewhat like IJWMFTT) (and perhaps this has already been addressed in previous threads about this documentary), in which case perhaps he did a cover of 'Long Promised Road' that ends or starts the movie. The IMDB page does state:

Quote
Brian Wilson   ...   (original score)

Can't wait to see this film!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Pretty Funky on March 26, 2019, 03:33:05 PM
Rab....You’re correct.

https://www.srqfm.com/music-news/new-brian-wilson-documentary-poster-released/

‘The title of the movie comes from the Beach Boys' 1971 track “Long Promised Road,” which was written by Wilson's youngest brother Carl Wilson, and was re-recorded by Wilson for the new film.’

Another point. Didn’t the idea for this start with regular interviews that Brian just wasn’t into, so they started driving around L.A. where he then opened up and really got into it? That could be the ‘road’ reference.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: tpesky on March 26, 2019, 06:21:15 PM
When I saw Al in February he mentioned that he was in it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 26, 2019, 08:24:05 PM
Rab....You’re correct.

https://www.srqfm.com/music-news/new-brian-wilson-documentary-poster-released/

‘The title of the movie comes from the Beach Boys' 1971 track “Long Promised Road,” which was written by Wilson's youngest brother Carl Wilson, and was re-recorded by Wilson for the new film.’

Another point. Didn’t the idea for this start with regular interviews that Brian just wasn’t into, so they started driving around L.A. where he then opened up and really got into it? That could be the ‘road’ reference.

Thanks for the info! I have been so out of the loop lately, that I completely forgot about the driving around LA aspect of this film. I can't remember how many hours of interview was recorded but I think it was a lot. Anyways, it does make complete sense for the title now. I can't wait to hear this soundtrack either.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Wata on March 26, 2019, 09:17:23 PM
Has the soundtrack already been confirmed for the doc? I'm curious if they include any of the tracks from unreleased BW recordings(Andy Paley Sessions, "Bedroom Tapes" and TLOS demos, for instance)

Also, I'd love to hear Brian's tackle on Long Promised Road (a song I really love), and I hope they get rid of obvious autotune as much as possible.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Howie Edelson on March 26, 2019, 09:47:33 PM
I wrote the article posted above.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 27, 2019, 06:04:55 AM
Has the soundtrack already been confirmed for the doc? I'm curious if they include any of the tracks from unreleased BW recordings(Andy Paley Sessions, "Bedroom Tapes" and TLOS demos, for instance)

Also, I'd love to hear Brian's tackle on Long Promised Road (a song I really love), and I hope they get rid of obvious autotune as much as possible.

I think the only times Brian's vocals have been overly-scrutinized/criticized around the last decade is when Joe Thomas is involved with the music. Whereas TLOS, Gershwin, Disney, 'One Kind Of Love', have been crowning moments in Brian's solo career as far as vocals are concerned. I don't know what this soundtrack holds for us, but I have high hopes the vocals will be on-point.

Btw, this may just be a case of semantics. But I don't think I've ever heard auto-tune on Brian's records. If there is pitch-correction it sounds like it's manually done on a note-by-note basis per the mixer's judgement. Case in point, Mike's vocals on Unleash The Love sound like every note is being corrected (even if they don't need to be), which indicates a plug-in that is constantly on, automatically making pitch correction. (Not bringing up Mike to start a Mike discussion, but his music is literally the best example I can think of as the pitch-correction is beyond blatant).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 27, 2019, 06:53:07 AM
Has the soundtrack already been confirmed for the doc? I'm curious if they include any of the tracks from unreleased BW recordings(Andy Paley Sessions, "Bedroom Tapes" and TLOS demos, for instance)

Also, I'd love to hear Brian's tackle on Long Promised Road (a song I really love), and I hope they get rid of obvious autotune as much as possible.

I think the only times Brian's vocals have been overly-scrutinized/criticized around the last decade is when Joe Thomas is involved with the music. Whereas TLOS, Gershwin, Disney, 'One Kind Of Love', have been crowning moments in Brian's solo career as far as vocals are concerned. I don't know what this soundtrack holds for us, but I have high hopes the vocals will be on-point.

Btw, this may just be a case of semantics. But I don't think I've ever heard auto-tune on Brian's records. If there is pitch-correction it sounds like it's manually done on a note-by-note basis per the mixer's judgement. Case in point, Mike's vocals on Unleash The Love sound like every note is being corrected (even if they don't need to be), which indicates a plug-in that is constantly on, automatically making pitch correction. (Not bringing up Mike to start a Mike discussion, but his music is literally the best example I can think of as the pitch-correction is beyond blatant).

There has of course been probably hundreds of pages of autotune (and/or other digital pitch correction) debate going back a number of years here, and I certainly don't want to dredge all of that back up.

I think Brian's solo records haven't had nearly the egregious autotune heard on Mike's last two solo sets. But I also think there has been digital pitch correction applied to Brian solo records that goes beyond literally pitching up or down only single notes (which, if it were the case, would often be nearly if not fully undetectable). They've done a solid job of not going the "Unleash the Love" route of figuratively flipping the autotune switch to "11" and leaving the room for the entire album. But it's still there on some Brian stuff to an extent that it can be detected on full lines/songs to varying degrees, as discussed at length in old threads on the NPP album and others.

And certainly, apart from Mike's solo sets, the Brian/Joe Thomas-centric 2012 "That's Why God Made the Radio" has excessive autotune throughout, as does the live C50 set. It's in fact ironic that Mike in his book complained about attempted use of autotune on the C50 live shows themselves (and his comments about Brian and Al's "The Right Time" hopefully not using autotune), in light of how heavily it's used on his solo sets.

Also, for those curious about a good example of dialing autotune to "11" and never letting up, listen to the singing on the 2017 Disney "live action remake" of "Beauty and the Beast." It's as distracting as Mike's recent solo albums.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 27, 2019, 06:57:39 AM
It will indeed be interesting to see if they compile a "soundtrack" to the documentary. It of course could simply be the new recording of LPR (possibly a few other new things) mixed with back catalog Brian solo tracks.

But it would certainly be a great opportunity to do a full disc (or two!) of unreleased Brian stuff. It would be great for them to go back all the way to the 70s and even late 60s, but supposedly this doc focuses on Brian's last 20 years as a solo artist, so I'm not sure what sort of unreleased stuff they'd pull out. He certainly has plenty of unreleased material from the last 20-25 years. There's the Beck stuff, other NPP outtakes, perhaps those TWGMTR album outtakes, and other hunks of sessions going back to the 2000s and late 90s. If they wanted to backdate a bit before the 1998 era, they could indeed work in more 90s Paley material.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 27, 2019, 08:26:42 AM
There has of course been probably hundreds of pages of autotune (and/or other digital pitch correction) debate going back a number of years here, and I certainly don't want to dredge all of that back up.

I think Brian's solo records haven't had nearly the egregious autotune heard on Mike's last two solo sets. But I also think there has been digital pitch correction applied to Brian solo records that goes beyond literally pitching up or down only single notes (which, if it were the case, would often be nearly if not fully undetectable). They've done a solid job of not going the "Unleash the Love" route of figuratively flipping the autotune switch to "11" and leaving the room for the entire album. But it's still there on some Brian stuff to an extent that it can be detected on full lines/songs to varying degrees, as discussed at length in old threads on the NPP album and others.

And certainly, apart from Mike's solo sets, the Brian/Joe Thomas-centric 2012 "That's Why God Made the Radio" has excessive autotune throughout, as does the live C50 set. It's in fact ironic that Mike in his book complained about attempted use of autotune on the C50 live shows themselves (and his comments about Brian and Al's "The Right Time" hopefully not using autotune), in light of how heavily it's used on his solo sets.

Also, for those curious about a good example of dialing autotune to "11" and never letting up, listen to the singing on the 2017 Disney "live action remake" of "Beauty and the Beast." It's as distracting as Mike's recent solo albums.

Regarding Brian's pitch-correction. On anything pre-NPP, I don't hear any songs where Brian has full lines that are pitch-corrected....I will happily be proven wrong though, I just don't remember hearing anything when it comes to full lines. Now, I won't even touch NPP, as I have read both sides of the debate, I remember one Ray Lawlor post saying that no pitch-correction was used on any part of NPP, but also remember Brian stating that they use pitch-correction (can't remember where he said this though). I do know that when I listen to NPP and Gershwin/Disney back-to-back, there is an obvious difference in how Brian sounds...whether it's an effect, pitch-correcting, an odd double-tracking anomaly, I don't know. That being said, as you say, there's a vast difference between the "dial at 11" sound of Mike's record and any effects/correction used on any Brian solo album.

Regarding Mike's comment. It's my conjecture that Mike saw all the controversy on SmileySmile.net (he mentioned around that time that he reads this forum) regarding the snippet of 'On The Island' and just couldn't help himself when 'The Right Time' came out as a single. He saw people bitching about the possibility of auto-tune on NPP and had to stir the pot himself. As there was never any major talk about auto-tune on Brian's music prior* this is the only reason I can think of as to why the subject would've been on Mike's radar at the time of that interview. And if he did read the comments about 'The Right Time' prior to the interview, I find it funny that he had the time to read the comments about the song, but he didn't have the time to actually listen to the song itself. Either way you look at it, it's absurd.

*There was some talk of pitch-correction on the Gershwin album, but the discussions weren't nearly as polarizing and drawn out as when NPP started to surface.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: NateRuvin on March 27, 2019, 08:42:36 AM
My take on the autotune thing is that, in BW's case, manual pitch correction, as opposed to an autotune plugin is being used. This allows the engineer to change individual notes that would otherwise stand out. As an engineer who uses both (automatic) autotune and (manual) pitch correction daily, I can hear the latter being used on BW's material as far back as the live Pet Sounds album, maybe even Imagination. When the notes are adjusted they get this tinny/robotic sound that stands out to the trained ear, and when it's "cranked up to 11" or applied as an automatic plugin, even the untrained ear can recognize how fake it sounds (UTL and C50 cd). The manual pitch correction was used very tastefully throughout BW's career. There aren't many moment from his pre-2012 studio catalog where the sound of the pitch correction takes me out of the music... I of course notice the little spots but it isn't distracting. Then we get to TWGMTR and NPP, where it sounds like, instead of using the pitch correction to just fix the bad notes, it was used to make all the notes "perfect". (Correcting all the notes via pitch correction will still sound more realistic than autotune, which can increase the speed by which you transition from note to note, giving the Cher effect) NPP sounds like the engineers spent hours making each note in key. I'm sure BW approves of this, but it does take out a certain humanity the voice has. This Beautiful Day, The Right Time, and One Kind Of Love are all great performances, yet they sound kind of off due to the pitch correction being used excessively.

Meanwhile, with Mike's crew it seems like someone think it's a good idea to put the automatic autotune plugin at the fastest it can possibly operate, giving every note Mike sings a completely robotic quality. Fortunately, it was slightly more subtle on Reason For The Season. the Scott Totten produced tracks actually sound pitch corrected and not autotuned... The Michael Lloyd produced, Little Saint Nick, is the main offender on RFTS. Definitely using the "cranked to 11" style that we saw on UTL... I actually wouldn't be surprised if this version of Little Saint Nick was recorded during the same sessions as Disc 2 of UTL... Same musicians playing and same overall sound.



Anyway , I couldn't be more excited for the documentary. The concept of feeling like getting to hang out with Brian is so exciting. I was also initially confused by the title, but once I heard that BW recorded his own version, I returned to feeling pure excitement.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Wata on March 27, 2019, 09:11:39 AM
Has the soundtrack already been confirmed for the doc? I'm curious if they include any of the tracks from unreleased BW recordings(Andy Paley Sessions, "Bedroom Tapes" and TLOS demos, for instance)

Also, I'd love to hear Brian's tackle on Long Promised Road (a song I really love), and I hope they get rid of obvious autotune as much as possible.

I think the only times Brian's vocals have been overly-scrutinized/criticized around the last decade is when Joe Thomas is involved with the music. Whereas TLOS, Gershwin, Disney, 'One Kind Of Love', have been crowning moments in Brian's solo career as far as vocals are concerned. I don't know what this soundtrack holds for us, but I have high hopes the vocals will be on-point.

Btw, this may just be a case of semantics. But I don't think I've ever heard auto-tune on Brian's records. If there is pitch-correction it sounds like it's manually done on a note-by-note basis per the mixer's judgement. Case in point, Mike's vocals on Unleash The Love sound like every note is being corrected (even if they don't need to be), which indicates a plug-in that is constantly on, automatically making pitch correction. (Not bringing up Mike to start a Mike discussion, but his music is literally the best example I can think of as the pitch-correction is beyond blatant).
I think, in hindsight, referring to autotune wasn't a good idea for me - What I meant is that I'd love to see him continue with the production on Run James Run - organic, more rock-oriented production that would surely fit LPD.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 27, 2019, 10:41:55 AM

‘The title of the movie comes from the Beach Boys' 1971 track “Long Promised Road,” which was written by Wilson's youngest brother Carl Wilson, and was re-recorded by Wilson for the new film.’



This is remarkable and amazing.

Firstly, it's the first time (I think?) that Brian is doing a studio cover of one of his brother's BBs songs.  So that's pretty significant in my book.

Carl's solo track "Heaven" was covered by Brian years ago (and a really good cover too), although I cannot recall how/if it ever got proper release? I know it was floating around online for awhile, but it deserved a better and more high profile release than what it got.

Just the fact that Brian is at the point emotionally where he's down to do that is a big step, because I assume that Brian probably avoided dabbling too much into this kind of territory at least in part due to it being too sad or emotionally difficult for him to tackle. Yes, songs like Forever were played at C50, and if memory serves Brian's band (with Al and David?) performed a Carl or Denny song or two on a few rare occasions live. But I imagine doing a studio cover cuts a bit deeper for him.

I tend to think that this is a step forward in the healing process for Brian in terms of confronting difficult emotional stuff in his life. One by one, Brian has dealt with stuff that has long festered, like finishing SMiLE, going public about the sordid details of the Landy era, etc. I'm stoked for Brian and I really can't wait to see the doc (and hear the cover, which hopefully will be an extra reason for more people to be more interested in this doc).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 27, 2019, 11:25:01 AM
Regarding pitch correction and other forms of vocal engineering work, I'd say there has been some level of electronic pitch/vocal stacking help happening since probably the BB '85 album, and then on to the '88 BW album and into the 90s. Varying degrees at varying points, depending on the era, the technology, the ethos of the production at hand, which engineers and producers were working on the project, etc.

Check out this thread from an engineer on "Orange Crate Art":

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/25857-brian-sandbox-wilson-tonite-show.html#post252354

On "Orange Crate Art", in addition to recording multiple takes and comping/punching-in (which is of course *not* a pitch-altering task and has been done for many, many years), they also ran his vocals through a synthesizer (folks on this board suggested a Fairlight or Synclavier was most likely) to correct the pitch on segments. They essentially used a pre-autotune, pre-DAW form of electronic/digital pitch correction all the way back then.

I'm thinking something similar was done to varying degrees on the BW '88 album and possibly the BB '85 album.

I think some form of pitch correction was used on later Brian projects, and prior to TWGMTR was done with skill and restraint and subtlety. I've always guessed some of those long, held notes on something like "Midnight's Another Day" had some digital help to hold those strong, high notes out so smoothly. Stuff like that. 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 27, 2019, 11:33:49 AM
Nate, thanks for the informative post!

Wata, I understand. I think "organic" is where we all want Brian to be. It's gotta be tough to have [fill in the blank] Records still wanting something that will sell to everyone, have all these influences, etc. Brian probably gets tugged in so many directions which is probably why he seems to disinterested in recording sometimes.

CD, couldn't agree more.

Is there a timeframe for when/how this will be released?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 27, 2019, 11:38:28 AM
Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 27, 2019, 11:45:52 AM
Brian has used all sorts of techniques through the years. But I do think there's a difference between altering the speed of a recording (e.g. "Caroline, No", the single mix of "It's OK", etc.), and using a synthesizer or digital plug-in to take a flat or sharp note and "fix" it.

I'm not saying the latter is problematic, and I think many years ago the idea/debate regarding "authenticity" of the vocal was sort of dropped; it isn't really about that anymore. When it truly is done in a sort of spot-checking fashion, it's not obtrusive at all. But the deal where an entire vocal is run though intensive autotune from beginning to end (TWGMTR, C50 live albums, Mike's last two solo albums) is where it becomes grating, not even so much because it's a way to "cheat" at singing or anything; it just *sounds awful.* When a vocal starts sounding robotic, or sounds so synthetic that people debate whether it's being run through an old school vocoder, *that's* when it's problematic.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 27, 2019, 11:56:06 AM
Back to the documentary, while it'll likely never happen, it would be interesting to see the same team of Jason Fine and Brent Wilson do a Mike Love documentary next. I'm not trying to be funny; Jason Fine seemed to be able to strike up a good back and forth with Mike on his 2012 C50 article for Rolling Stone.

I recall Mike mentioning a few years back he wanted to do a documentary on himself and/or was looking into it, so I think a Mike-focused doc is possible, but I would imagine he'd use his own people.

Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: CenturyDeprived on March 27, 2019, 12:07:33 PM
Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.

Plus the speeding up of the vocals (and the whole song) was a Murry idea I believe. Not that it's impossible for Murry to have had a good idea or two that Brian may have actually agreed with, but my understanding is that it was to make Brian sound "younger" or something. So already it's a hare-brained idea that came from a lame "marketability" viewpoint, much like the viewpoint that latter-day Brian needs to be Autotuned to appeal to the youthful market who is accustomed to hearing Autotune.

Honestly, I love Brian, I support his music, but if some well-meaning fans on an internet forum can nudge him or his producer(s) into not using Autotune, or doing it TOTALLY transparently (it can be done!), then I'm all for that nudge. Just listen to Brian's mid 2000s "What Love Can Do", which is a super great song that unfortunately is slathered in Autotune to a point where it absolutely takes away from the song. Don't do it this time around, Bri! Please!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇 on March 27, 2019, 12:47:57 PM
Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.

Plus the speeding up of the vocals (and the whole song) was a Murry idea I believe. Not that it's impossible for Murry to have had a good idea or two that Brian may have actually agreed with, but my understanding is that it was to make Brian sound "younger" or something. So already it's a hare-brained idea that came from a lame "marketability" viewpoint, much like the viewpoint that latter-day Brian needs to be Autotuned to appeal to the youthful market who is accustomed to hearing Autotune.

Honestly, I love Brian, I support his music, but if some well-meaning fans on an internet forum can nudge him or his producer(s) into not using Autotune, or doing it TOTALLY transparently (it can be done!), then I'm all for that nudge. Just listen to Brian's mid 2000s "What Love Can Do", which is a super great song that unfortunately is slathered in Autotune to a point where it absolutely takes away from the song. Don't do it this time around, Bri! Please!


I honestly though I was the only person for felt that way about Caroline, No...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on March 27, 2019, 01:15:43 PM
Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.

Plus the speeding up of the vocals (and the whole song) was a Murry idea I believe. Not that it's impossible for Murry to have had a good idea or two that Brian may have actually agreed with, but my understanding is that it was to make Brian sound "younger" or something. So already it's a hare-brained idea that came from a lame "marketability" viewpoint, much like the viewpoint that latter-day Brian needs to be Autotuned to appeal to the youthful market who is accustomed to hearing Autotune.

Honestly, I love Brian, I support his music, but if some well-meaning fans on an internet forum can nudge him or his producer(s) into not using Autotune, or doing it TOTALLY transparently (it can be done!), then I'm all for that nudge. Just listen to Brian's mid 2000s "What Love Can Do", which is a super great song that unfortunately is slathered in Autotune to a point where it absolutely takes away from the song. Don't do it this time around, Bri! Please!

Haha, yeah, I've no doubt seen opinions on the sped-up vs regular, and know there are people who prefer one or the other. I've been a part of some of those discussions when they've happened. My point is more that those who gave Brian non-stop criticism about recent "autotune" don't criticize 'Caroline, No' to the level they do to 'Whatever Happened', when the vocal manipulation is almost just as obvious on 'Caroline, No'. It was just an observation about how people will pick and choose what they get pissed off about.

As I said earlier in this thread, I want Brian to go the Johnny Cash American Series route - Brian needs to find something he's passionate about singing/playing, he needs to not worry about studio gimmicks that will only date the work. I legit don't care if he's off in a few spots, Cash was pretty iffy on the latter records of the American Series, but they give the records that much more reality. Reality is what we want. I guess we can hope that his work for Long Promised Road will be exactly that.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Rocker on March 27, 2019, 01:41:02 PM

‘The title of the movie comes from the Beach Boys' 1971 track “Long Promised Road,” which was written by Wilson's youngest brother Carl Wilson, and was re-recorded by Wilson for the new film.’



This is remarkable and amazing.

Firstly, it's the first time (I think?) that Brian is doing a studio cover of one of his brother's BBs songs.  So that's pretty significant in my book.

Carl's solo track "Heaven" was covered by Brian years ago (and a really good cover too), although I cannot recall how/if it ever got proper release? I know it was floating around online for awhile, but it deserved a better and more high profile release than what it got.

Just the fact that Brian is at the point emotionally where he's down to do that is a big step, because I assume that Brian probably avoided dabbling too much into this kind of territory at least in part due to it being too sad or emotionally difficult for him to tackle. Yes, songs like Forever were played at C50, and if memory serves Brian's band (with Al and David?) performed a Carl or Denny song or two on a few rare occasions live. But I imagine doing a studio cover cuts a bit deeper for him.

I tend to think that this is a step forward in the healing process for Brian in terms of confronting difficult emotional stuff in his life. One by one, Brian has dealt with stuff that has long festered, like finishing SMiLE, going public about the sordid details of the Landy era, etc. I'm stoked for Brian and I really can't wait to see the doc (and hear the cover, which hopefully will be an extra reason for more people to be more interested in this doc).



Brian recorded "Heaven" and put it on his website. That's where it came from. I really liked it back then, but I seem to remember that it featured some out of key wall-of-Brian sounds. I'm not sure, though.
Brian played "Forever" early during his touring years. "Little bird" was played right after the Beach Boys tour in 2012 and "Feel flows" has made appearances since Blondie became part of the band. I think that's about it of songs by Dennis or Carl that Brian played liv except of course if they were co-writes with Brian ("Good timin'", "Friends", maybe more).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: chewy on March 27, 2019, 02:37:05 PM
god- naming a brian doc long promised road is worse than the bohemimean rhapsody movie where freddie was singing a song he wrote without a mustache, when in the move he had a mustache


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on March 27, 2019, 02:47:28 PM
Or, those two things are nothing alike in any way, shape, or form.

We now know Brian recorded the song for the documentary. The song and the film's title (remember, BriMel and Jean Sievers are producers, so they presumably would have a say in the film's title) clearly mean something to Brian. This isn't like some third party confused non-fan directing a film with no involvement from anybody related to Brian or the Beach Boys.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: jonathan anderle on March 27, 2019, 02:55:43 PM
I remember that during the band rehearsal footage for Beautiful Dreamer there was a moment of downtime, and out of nowhere Brian started playing the bridge of Long Promised Road. Darian and Probyn immediy popped their heads up, gave each other a "Whaaaaaat?" kind of look, and recovered in time to sing the "ba ba, ba ba" backing parts during the second line. So I guess it's something that's been percolating in Brian for a while. Darian has said that Brian loves the song and sings the bridge often, that it makes him feel closer to Carl.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Wirestone on March 27, 2019, 04:17:17 PM
Brian’s version of Heaven:

https://youtu.be/dFs9DXqZdas


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: chewy on March 27, 2019, 09:21:29 PM
oh brian re-recorded it, well that changes everything- viva la movie!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Jukka on March 28, 2019, 01:29:45 AM
"Fun Fun Fun: The Story of Brian Wilson"

 :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on March 29, 2019, 07:35:13 AM
Looking forward to seeing this!



Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Rocker on March 29, 2019, 12:23:59 PM
"Fun Fun Fun: The Story of Brian Wilson"

 :)


If I was smart, I'd find a great way to use "I'll bet he's nice" as movie title


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Jukka on March 29, 2019, 01:18:05 PM
"Fun Fun Fun: The Story of Brian Wilson"

 :)


If I was smart, I'd find a great way to use "I'll bet he's nice" as movie title

: D

”I’ll Bet He’s Nice - Portrait of Brian Wilson”.

If it’s about Brian driving around LA ”Honkin’ Down the Highway” would be a sweet title.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on March 30, 2019, 09:00:56 PM
Read the article in the current ESQ.
Said that , re Long Promised Road, Brian told "the story of when the song was recorded." He recorded a new version of it.
 Also said that the film was about "the brothers", about "how much Brian loves them."

 Oh apparently there is going to be a Mike Love documentary eventually.

Good issue!


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: NateRuvin on March 31, 2019, 10:16:06 AM
I'd actually be really excited to see a Mike Love documentary if it was done well... I think Mike would have the best insight of what it's been like touring with The Beach Boys, as he's the only member that never left the group, and consistently toured for the last nearly 60 years. I really hope the documentary wouldn't be a two hour version of the video that plays before his show: all the self adoration... His autobiography was pretty good, although it omitted a lot (court stuff mainly) and came across a little bitter. Although, this may be controversial to say, but I understand his bitterness. He has basically been in his cousin's shadow for half a century. Brian's the genius songwriter/arranger/producer/instrumentalist and Mike is a singer/lyricist. Especially after Derek Taylor's "Genius" marketing strategy, I can start to see why Mike felt jealous, of someone who by all other standards was his peer, his equal. In Mike's mind they wrote Surfin Safari, California Girls, I Get Around etc together , whereas the rest of the world looks at it like Brian is the genius songwriter, and Mike simply supplied the goofy words that went on top. While this might true to varying degrees, Mike is clearly a capable and talented singer/songwriter, who in my opinion, history overlooks.

If a Mike Love documentary could "set the record straight" and tell Mike's side of the story, without coming across as braggadocios or bitter, that would be amazing. I would be very interested to truly hear about Mike's justification for touring solo essentially as The Beach Boys... I've shared my many theories, one of which is probably be correct... There's a lot of things that could be addressed in a Mike documentary, where if he cut the bullsh*t and was just honest and open, could be revelatory.

Of course , the ultimate treat , like others have brought up, would be a Beatles Anthology style documentary with both archival interviews and new interviews with all principal members as well as other notable figures like Marilyn Wilson, Dean Torrence, Stephen Desper, Fred Vail, Wrecking Crew members, past & present touring members, etc etc etc... That would be amazing. Endless Harmony and American Band are good, but they only really scratch the surface. They're overviews, but it's hard to fit so much history into so little time. That's why a multiple part Anthology series could be really cool.


New question: What are some things you'd love to see addressed in the BW doc (or future Mike doc or hypothetical BBs anthology)  ?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Pretty Funky on March 31, 2019, 10:56:36 AM
I think both Brian’s and Mike’s books covered what I want to know. I’m just not interested in any possible ‘tabloid’ tales that any further book/books/documentary might want to tell.
I’m looking forward to the concept of LPR. Just driving around LA. However as far as Mike goes it would have been great if he joined Brian at a few stops. Between the two of them the banter would just flow I think and would make for some great footage.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇 on March 31, 2019, 02:36:45 PM
I just want to see chilled, relaxed Brian just shooting the sh*t about things. He seems to have a great rapport with Jason Fine as well so something along the lines of the interviews Brian did with him.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on March 31, 2019, 02:38:09 PM
Mike Love is Brian's equal ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? :bw

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol


Nate, I'm sure you're a great guy, but c'mon, man.  ::)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on March 31, 2019, 02:52:34 PM
Agree, saying they're equals is stretch.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: NateRuvin on April 01, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
I'm saying they're equal in terms of both just being men. At the end of the day we're all just people.

But obviously BW is the superior talent.  :bw


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Jesse Reiswig on April 01, 2019, 03:43:15 PM
Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.


I honestly though I was the only person for felt that way about Caroline, No...

I'll agree with you guys as well. I far prefer the original-speed version of Caroline, No. And when I play the song, that's what I play. I just think it's far more devastating, somber and emotional. Is it still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: B.E. on April 01, 2019, 04:28:42 PM
Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: CenturyDeprived on April 01, 2019, 04:49:02 PM
Somewhat related to HeyJude's most recent post regarding the history of pitch-correction. But I always found the complaints about Brian manipulating his solo voice to be hilarious, because he did it on Pet Sounds of all records for 'Caroline, No' - Brian has always used crazy ways of manipulating instruments and vocals. I mean, if you listen closely to 'Caroline, No' you can definitely tell that something isn't right with his voice. But no one complains about that. Just an observation.

Actually, I'll be the one guy to complain about the PS album version of Caroline, No! Haha.

Once I learned that Brian's voice was altered, and then I heard the original speed version on the PS box set, I immediately felt STRONGLY that the original speed version is by MILES the best version. You lose something in the process of not hearing Brian's voice as he actually sang the song. Brian's emotions and aching longing are compromised to some degree. He doesn't sound quite right, which is especially evident when you A/B the two versions.


I honestly though I was the only person for felt that way about Caroline, No...

I'll agree with you guys as well. I far prefer the original-speed version of Caroline, No. And when I play the song, that's what I play. I just think it's far more devastating, somber and emotional. Is it still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set?

Totally. I know it's just a matter of opinion, but I don't know how anyone can A/B listen to both versions, and say that they find the sped-up version *more* emotionally impactful or fulfilling. It's totally unnatural. It's like Murry was taking a cue from Alvin & The Chipmunks creator Ross Bagdasarian when he suggested it to Brian. Granted, Brian hasn't been modified as much as Alvin, Simon, or Theodore, but it's partway there. Unnatural and unnecessary.

I think that any listener who clings to the viewpoint that the sped-up album is the superior version is simply saying that because they have sentimental attachment from hearing it that way (and only that way) for 31 years, until the box set version was released. Or I suppose it's also because Brian said "okay" and went ahead and approved the speed change in '66 himself. But objectively, I cannot see how in hindsight it can be considered a smart decision artistically speaking. Brian in this era usually made great decisions; this was not one of them. IMHO.

Was it commonly known by fans for decades that the Caroline, No album version was in fact sped-up? Or was that somewhat of an insider secret? If people didn't realize it, I imagine they'd still feel something was a bit off with Brian's voice, but might not have been sure what it was.

I wonder if any fans attempted a homemade pitch-corrected version on their own before the box set was released. I imagine it wouldn't have been all that hard to roughly approximate, that is if they knew the science of the speed parameters that the original was modified by.


Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.


That's a damn shame that it's not on proper streaming services. Good thing for YouTube and my iPod classic.

 


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: B.E. on April 01, 2019, 04:57:40 PM
Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.

That's a damn shame that it's not on proper streaming services. Good thing for YouTube and my iPod classic.

The tracks (stereo and mono) can still be purchased on iTunes. Weirdly, iTunes mistitles the box set as "40th anniversary".


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Summer_Days on April 02, 2019, 12:35:59 PM
(is afraid get in this conversation about ‘Caroline, No’ because he prefers the sped up version on the album)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Rocker on April 03, 2019, 12:48:13 AM
(is afraid get in this conversation about ‘Caroline, No’ because he prefers the sped up version on the album)


+1


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Custom Machine on April 03, 2019, 02:08:21 AM
IMO, Murry was correct in suggesting that Caroline No be sped up, and Brian made the right call in following his advice.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on April 03, 2019, 06:38:32 AM
the speeding up of CN was most probably done at the time for the 45 single release, in other words that's what Murry & Capitol felt was necessary if a Brian Wilson solo record was going to have the best radio play chance

the speed change was merely carried over when it was placed on the PS album now as a group effort


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Rocker on April 03, 2019, 07:32:59 AM
the speeding up of CN was most probably done at the time for the 45 single release, in other words that's what Murry & Capitol felt was necessary if a Brian Wilson solo record was going to have the best radio play chance

the speed change was merely carried over when it was placed on the PS album now as a group effort


I don't think Capitol had anything to do with that decision. And Murry had nothing to say about their releases (he was fired by then), it was just a suggestion by him to Brian. Brian liked it and wen ahead with it.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: B.E. on April 03, 2019, 08:19:18 AM
the speeding up of CN was most probably done at the time for the 45 single release, in other words that's what Murry & Capitol felt was necessary if a Brian Wilson solo record was going to have the best radio play chance

the speed change was merely carried over when it was placed on the PS album now as a group effort

I don't think Capitol had anything to do with that decision. And Murry had nothing to say about their releases (he was fired by then), it was just a suggestion by him to Brian. Brian liked it and went ahead with it.

I don't think he ever changed his mind either. For the Classics Selected By Brian Wilson comp, he said that CN "represents the sweetest I can sing" (which I find very interesting considering it's sped-up). Does anyone recall if he mentioned it in his book?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: adamghost on April 13, 2019, 01:28:07 AM
I'm very anti-autotune/pitch correction for a variety of reasons I won't get into, but taking a step back from my own personal preferences, the best analogy is CGI in a film. Does that effect blend in seamlessly, or is it so obviously done that it takes you out of the film entirely like a cheap process shot of a giant lobster in a '50s sci-fi flick? There are many gradations in between and even I would agree there are times that you just can't get the performance and to leave it uncorrected would take you out of the song just as egregiously (though there are ways to get around this other than pitch correction).

I have a lot of trouble with TWGMTR (the album, not the song, which I like a lot) because the processing "takes me out of the movie" as it were, especially on those later tracks which are otherwise very good. I also thought the album was very lacking in top end, and at one point I took the album and remastered it myself, and discovered that when you added in more top all the processing just flew out and became blatantly obvious. So there's a sort of back door effect in that way as well - it's going to affect the overall balance of the EQ and how much spread you can get away with. I remember NPR did a segment where they played something from TWGMTR and WIBN back-to-back and the former really suffered by comparison....very thin and dull, relatively speaking, by contrast to the older track.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Margarita on April 16, 2019, 08:39:03 AM
Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: HeyJude on April 16, 2019, 10:41:13 AM
Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


As with the Beatles Anthology, the idea with a similar BB doc would be that it would be authorized and have BRI involved as a producer, as was the case with "Endless Harmony." The downside of course is that you rarely get the most warts-and-all information. The plus side would be easier access to some archival elements and *some* publishing clearances, more clout from BRI in approaching a partner (e.g. Netflix, HBO, etc.) to finance and air the documentary, and full access to interview the members at length. They could also of course contribute photos, film/video, audio, etc. from their personal archives.

As far as legal issues with entities/people outside of the band, BRI and/or the producing partner would vet all of that through legal.

Somebody should get some prime movers and shakers in the movie and film industry to pitch a long-form BB doc to somebody like Netflix or HBO or Amazon, all of whom are throwing TONS of money at programming right now. One of the biggest costs would be clearing rights to film/video footage (e.g. TV shows, etc.), and paying for sync rights to music outside of the stuff the band owns the publishing for (meaning most of the 60s material).


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: FreakySmiley on April 16, 2019, 12:56:47 PM
This whole topic has me fantasizing about a Brian album comprised entirely of songs written by Dennis and Carl...


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on April 17, 2019, 05:05:48 AM
Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


As with the Beatles Anthology, the idea with a similar BB doc would be that it would be authorized and have BRI involved as a producer, as was the case with "Endless Harmony." The downside of course is that you rarely get the most warts-and-all information. The plus side would be easier access to some archival elements and *some* publishing clearances, more clout from BRI in approaching a partner (e.g. Netflix, HBO, etc.) to finance and air the documentary, and full access to interview the members at length. They could also of course contribute photos, film/video, audio, etc. from their personal archives.

As far as legal issues with entities/people outside of the band, BRI and/or the producing partner would vet all of that through legal.

Somebody should get some prime movers and shakers in the movie and film industry to pitch a long-form BB doc to somebody like Netflix or HBO or Amazon, all of whom are throwing TONS of money at programming right now. One of the biggest costs would be clearing rights to film/video footage (e.g. TV shows, etc.), and paying for sync rights to music outside of the stuff the band owns the publishing for (meaning most of the 60s material).

A Netflix docu-series would be amazing. They’ve had some good docu-series recently, especially the series Wild Wild Country, and their Formula 1 show is pretty good.

I wonder if Ken Burns would ever tackle the subject - as his docuseries have always been Americana-centered, doing a docuseries on “America’s Band” would only make sense. And I bet such a documentary would cut to the heart of the problems with the relationships in the band - taking both sides of the argument seriously, perhaps even giving some much needed perspective to both sides of the isle.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Rocker on April 17, 2019, 07:01:41 AM
Obviously, first and foremost, I'd like to see a "Beatles Anthology" style multi-part BB documentary covering everything.

So would I, but I don't think there are enough lawyers in the world to deal with the mess that would ensue - too many sides to too many stories.  The Beatles had the advantage of far more documentation over the years so that facts could be confirmed.

I am quite excited at the thought of Brian singing these lyrics, with his band on the backing:

"Hit hard at the battle that confronted me, yeah
Knocked down all the roadblocks stumbling me
Throw off all the shackles that were binding me down"

And remember, we don't know the genesis of the song.  Brian could have been around when Carl was working on it, or maybe Carl's inspiration came from conversation with Brian.


As with the Beatles Anthology, the idea with a similar BB doc would be that it would be authorized and have BRI involved as a producer, as was the case with "Endless Harmony." The downside of course is that you rarely get the most warts-and-all information. The plus side would be easier access to some archival elements and *some* publishing clearances, more clout from BRI in approaching a partner (e.g. Netflix, HBO, etc.) to finance and air the documentary, and full access to interview the members at length. They could also of course contribute photos, film/video, audio, etc. from their personal archives.

As far as legal issues with entities/people outside of the band, BRI and/or the producing partner would vet all of that through legal.

Somebody should get some prime movers and shakers in the movie and film industry to pitch a long-form BB doc to somebody like Netflix or HBO or Amazon, all of whom are throwing TONS of money at programming right now. One of the biggest costs would be clearing rights to film/video footage (e.g. TV shows, etc.), and paying for sync rights to music outside of the stuff the band owns the publishing for (meaning most of the 60s material).

A Netflix docu-series would be amazing. They’ve had some good docu-series recently, especially the series Wild Wild Country, and their Formula 1 show is pretty good.

I wonder if Ken Burns would ever tackle the subject - as his docuseries have always been Americana-centered, doing a docuseries on “America’s Band” would only make sense. And I bet such a documentary would cut to the heart of the problems with the relationships in the band - taking both sides of the argument seriously, perhaps even giving some much needed perspective to both sides of the isle.


But did Burns ever do a documentary focused on one single act? He has his new documentary about Country Music coming out this year, which will also be a multi-part show and of course not about just one artist. I'm sure he would do a great job, I just don't know if it's where his MO is.



Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: guitarfool2002 on April 17, 2019, 07:32:40 AM
I don't know if Ken Burns is as invested in the Beach Boys as he was in some of his other projects. I think having a filmmaker who has a deeper connection to the subject matter can also be a double-edged sword, because you may not get an unbiased delivery of the facts, but you'll also get a more personal view overall because the documentarian is ultimately a fan.

One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan. And, more recently, I watched Jim Jarmusch's documentary on The Stooges, where it focused on Iggy Pop himself as much as the band, and I thought it was terrific. It changed my views on Iggy in particular, and I think that's what the best docs tend to do, again like the Dylan film.

In this way, I'm thinking this latest project might be perhaps the best way to capture Brian Wilson on film. Just let the camera roll and let him talk and expand on whatever topics come up.

The other issue with the Beach Boys and any future docs about them might be the way history has been tried to be reshaped and rewritten regarding certain issues surrounding the band and band members, and if the behind-the-scenes campaigning gets into the inner workings of making a documentary about them, you may have someone on camera presented as an authority on this-or-that playing into the rewrite and having it taken as fact. Beyond that, and it's happened before so there is precedent going back decades, the members may be given veto power over the content to where certain topics would be labeled off limits for the film. I don't know at this point, especially after all that has happened, if a truly comprehensive account could be filmed.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: RONDEMON on August 09, 2019, 05:44:59 PM
Has there been any news on when this documentary will be released?


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Shady on August 09, 2019, 08:49:27 PM
Not a word


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: SenorPotatoHead on August 11, 2019, 06:56:20 AM
The non sped up Caroline No is the way to go (IMO).   It makes no sense to speed it up.  You don't want the character of the song sounding younger because it's a guy reflecting back on something that he now feels is irrevocably lost.  If Pet Sounds is a guys journey from youthful hope to adult resignation then CN ought to sound mature (and I say that lightly because Brian still sounds young in the non-sped up version) because the guy has grown - through experience and heart break, etc.  Murry was wrong, Brian (gasp!) was wrong and all of you who like the sped up version are wrong!  lol :P
And Don't Worry Baby is NOT a car song either.  
So there.  


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: CenturyDeprived on August 11, 2019, 11:21:42 AM
The non sped up Caroline No is the way to go (IMO).   It makes no sense to speed it up.  You don't want the character of the song sounding younger because it's a guy reflecting back on something that he now feels is irrevocably lost.  If Pet Sounds is a guys journey from youthful hope to adult resignation then CN ought to sound mature (and I say that lightly because Brian still sounds young in the non-sped up version) because the guy has grown - through experience and heart break, etc.  Murry was wrong, Brian (gasp!) was wrong and all of you who like the sped up version are wrong!  lol :P
And Don't Worry Baby is NOT a car song either.  
So there.  

+1 :)


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Needleinthehay on August 11, 2019, 05:07:15 PM
One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan.

That doc was completely made up, at least big portions of it..which brings up a good point, would a fake doc about the BB be worth making/watching? I feel like the reason it worked with Dylan is he has such a mystique, doesnt do interviews, people dont really know much about his life, hell he doesnt even talk between songs on stage... that most of the made up stuff couldve been true and no one wouldve known....but so much more is known about the BBs, especially with Mike constatly doing interviews,  same with Brian, etc I feel like doing the same thing about the BB wouldnt really work....


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: rab2591 on August 11, 2019, 05:45:29 PM
One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan.

That doc was completely made up, at least big portions of it..which brings up a good point, would a fake doc about the BB be worth making/watching? I feel like the reason it worked with Dylan is he has such a mystique, doesnt do interviews, people dont really know much about his life, hell he doesnt even talk between songs on stage... that most of the made up stuff couldve been true and no one wouldve known....but so much more is known about the BBs, especially with Mike constatly doing interviews,  same with Brian, etc I feel like doing the same thing about the BB wouldnt really work....

I guess I'm completely out of the loop. Could you briefly expand on how big portions of that doc are made up? I have read many a book on Dylan, but it has been a while since I've read those books, I guess I don't remember anything in that doc being out of the ordinary from what I read in the books.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Needleinthehay on August 11, 2019, 07:30:21 PM
One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan.

That doc was completely made up, at least big portions of it..which brings up a good point, would a fake doc about the BB be worth making/watching? I feel like the reason it worked with Dylan is he has such a mystique, doesnt do interviews, people dont really know much about his life, hell he doesnt even talk between songs on stage... that most of the made up stuff couldve been true and no one wouldve known....but so much more is known about the BBs, especially with Mike constatly doing interviews,  same with Brian, etc I feel like doing the same thing about the BB wouldnt really work....

I guess I'm completely out of the loop. Could you briefly expand on how big portions of that doc are made up? I have read many a book on Dylan, but it has been a while since I've read those books, I guess I don't remember anything in that doc being out of the ordinary from what I read in the books.

Oh, you know what, I just realized both you and guitarfool are probably talking about "No Direction Home" from ~2003 or whenever, which was great. The new one that just came out in the last month or so that Scorsese did is about the rolling thunder revue and most of the stories/interviews are fake and all made up. The archival footage is great to see and its pretty entertaining but most people who watch it dont know that its fake because its presented as a documentary....Bob tells a bunch of stories that are lies, people interviewed that were supposedly there werent there and are made up characters, etc. Still worth watching but just know that most of it is BS. Its on netflix


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 11, 2019, 10:19:13 PM
One of the best I've seen in that regard was Scorcese's take on Dylan.

That doc was completely made up, at least big portions of it..which brings up a good point, would a fake doc about the BB be worth making/watching? I feel like the reason it worked with Dylan is he has such a mystique, doesnt do interviews, people dont really know much about his life, hell he doesnt even talk between songs on stage... that most of the made up stuff couldve been true and no one wouldve known....but so much more is known about the BBs, especially with Mike constatly doing interviews,  same with Brian, etc I feel like doing the same thing about the BB wouldnt really work....

I guess I'm completely out of the loop. Could you briefly expand on how big portions of that doc are made up? I have read many a book on Dylan, but it has been a while since I've read those books, I guess I don't remember anything in that doc being out of the ordinary from what I read in the books.

Oh, you know what, I just realized both you and guitarfool are probably talking about "No Direction Home" from ~2003 or whenever, which was great. The new one that just came out in the last month or so that Scorsese did is about the rolling thunder revue and most of the stories/interviews are fake and all made up. The archival footage is great to see and its pretty entertaining but most people who watch it dont know that its fake because its presented as a documentary....Bob tells a bunch of stories that are lies, people interviewed that were supposedly there werent there and are made up characters, etc. Still worth watching but just know that most of it is BS. Its on netflix
No Direction Home is a great one. Rare to see Bob speaking so openly about his influences, inspirations; great concert footage, too. I haven't seen the new one; if it's going to be fiction, they should have just re-released Renaldo and Clara. Bob put a lot of money into that film, i'm sure the critics would still hate it, but the fans would buy it just because it's Bob.
If we're going to have a fictional Beach Boys movie, please make it one where Carl and Dennis don't die tragically young.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Jay on August 12, 2019, 11:44:24 AM
Jessie Reiswig, I believe you're correct. The original speed version of "Caroline, No" is still only available on the Pet Sounds Sessions box set. Unfortunately, this version isn't available on streaming services, such as, Spotify. Also, Spotify mistitles the stereo sped-up version that's included on Classics Selected By Brian Wilson as original speed.
It was also released on a single disc promotional sampler of the box set as well. But since it's only a promotional item, it will obviously be quite difficult to find.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Needleinthehay on August 12, 2019, 05:56:14 PM

No Direction Home is a great one. Rare to see Bob speaking so openly about his influences, inspirations; great concert footage, too. I haven't seen the new one; if it's going to be fiction, they should have just re-released Renaldo and Clara. Bob put a lot of money into that film, i'm sure the critics would still hate it, but the fans would buy it just because it's Bob.
If we're going to have a fictional Beach Boys movie, please make it one where Carl and Dennis don't die tragically young.

I know this is off topic, but the funny thing about what you said is the new dylan documentary actually has clips from Renaldo and Clara and makes them look like real documentary footage and doesnt tell you its from a movie...pretty funny you said that


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Lonely Summer on August 13, 2019, 03:48:43 PM

No Direction Home is a great one. Rare to see Bob speaking so openly about his influences, inspirations; great concert footage, too. I haven't seen the new one; if it's going to be fiction, they should have just re-released Renaldo and Clara. Bob put a lot of money into that film, i'm sure the critics would still hate it, but the fans would buy it just because it's Bob.
If we're going to have a fictional Beach Boys movie, please make it one where Carl and Dennis don't die tragically young.

I know this is off topic, but the funny thing about what you said is the new dylan documentary actually has clips from Renaldo and Clara and makes them look like real documentary footage and doesnt tell you its from a movie...pretty funny you said that
Yeah, Renaldo and Clara was a very unusual film, seen by probably 500 people total. Part fact, part fiction, part concert film...which apparently is the same approach Scorsese took for the new film.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Matt H on October 11, 2019, 07:54:16 PM
Anyone hear anything about a release date on this?  I thought it was supposed to be this year.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Sorry Entertainer ♯♫♩🐇 on October 11, 2019, 08:06:52 PM
I was wondering about that too


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: NateRuvin on October 11, 2019, 08:23:14 PM
When I saw BW in Milwaukee, Either before or after(can't recall) BW's band perfromed Long Promised Road , Al mentioned that it was the title of Bri's move that is "coming soon"


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Shady on October 15, 2019, 10:37:55 PM
Like everything in BB's world an announcement is made then it takes forever


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Pretty Funky on October 16, 2019, 10:45:56 AM
I guess the makers are still shopping it around for a buyer. The market has changed as in where we once went out and bought DVDs, now it can be played on a Netflix or Amazon Prime etc. If they aren’t interested I guess the options are limited. The makers must have sunk some money into it so obviously need a good return.


Title: Re: Brian Wilson: Long Promised Road (2019 Brent Wilson Documentary)
Post by: Emdeeh on October 16, 2019, 01:07:00 PM
Some of us still buy DVDs, especially when it's BB-related.