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Author Topic: Brothers, Cousins, and Friends - possibility  (Read 4694 times)
sensiblechuckle
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« on: December 25, 2018, 09:58:47 PM »

I've been weirdly obsessed with the 1980-1983 era for the longest time, and have been scouring the forums for more information on this era because there's so many songs here, and I just wanted to talk about it with people.

After finally listening to the rest of the Brian demos from the Usher sessions around 1983 like Black Widow and In the Night Time as well as selections from Bruce's Goin' Private, do you think that there could have been a feasible follow up that could be cobbled from the songs that would have been released in this era?

Some of the (mainly booted) but also rarities include:

Goin' Private sessions:
Let's Go to Heaven Tonight
If There Were Time

Cocaine Sessions / Brian Demos:
Stevie
Sweetie
Rings
Walking On Water
Oh Lord
City Blues
I Feel So Fine

Usher Sessions
In the Night Time
Heavenly Bodies
Black Widow
Night Bloomin' Jasmine

Misceallenous:
Be My Baby
Do Doo Ron Ron
Why Don't They Let Us Fall in Love
Goin to the Beach
Runaway
Beach Boys Medley
California Calling 1982
Don't Fight the Sea
You Are So Beautiful

Also anything from Carl Wilson, Youngblood, Looking Back With Love could have been fair game.

I guess, I'm just looking for if it could have been possible if the Beach Boys could have feasibly made a decent KTSA follow up album in 1981-1982 and how far along development was on this album.


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Mr Fulton
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2018, 10:49:34 PM »

If I were to make On album of songs available from this era I would go with this

1. Looking Back With Love
2. Stevie
3. Night Blooming Jasmine
4. Heaven
5. California Dreamin

6. Seems So Long Ago
7. Why Dont They Let Us Fall In Love
8. Reins
9. Goin’ To The Beach
10. Sweetie

Something like that. I have never heard of Going Private before though
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c-man
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2018, 09:47:08 AM »

Believe me, this era fascinates me to, but I stick strictly to what is known to have been recorded (however incompletely) or at least mentioned during the period right after KTSA's release through to Brian's "re-Landyfication" and the beginning of the Steve Levine project. So, "Reins" and "Walking On Water" are out, because those are from '86 (on my copy of the circulating tape that includes those two plus "Sweetie", an intro voice dates it to October of that year). However, "Sweetie" is still in, since a Beach Boys demo version was recorded in '81.


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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2018, 10:24:17 AM »

Believe me, this era fascinates me to, but I stick strictly to what is known to have been recorded (however incompletely) or at least mentioned during the period right after KTSA's release through to Brian's "re-Landyfication" and the beginning of the Steve Levine project. So, "Reins" and "Walking On Water" are out, because those are from '86 (on my copy of the circulating tape that includes those two plus "Sweetie", an intro voice dates it to October of that year). However, "Sweetie" is still in, since a Beach Boys demo version was recorded in '81.





Thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I’ve seen it stated that Reigns and Walking on Water date from 1980-1981, which didn’t sound right to me because of the sound of Brian’s voice
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« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2018, 10:38:28 AM »

Believe me, this era fascinates me to, but I stick strictly to what is known to have been recorded (however incompletely) or at least mentioned during the period right after KTSA's release through to Brian's "re-Landyfication" and the beginning of the Steve Levine project. So, "Reins" and "Walking On Water" are out, because those are from '86 (on my copy of the circulating tape that includes those two plus "Sweetie", an intro voice dates it to October of that year). However, "Sweetie" is still in, since a Beach Boys demo version was recorded in '81.





Thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I’ve seen it stated that Reigns and Walking on Water date from 1980-1981, which didn’t sound right to me because of the sound of Brian’s voice

Probably because Brian did a piano/vocal demo of "Sweetie" on that same tape, folks assumed the recording and all three songs were from '81.
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« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2018, 11:08:03 AM »

^ That makes sense
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« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2018, 12:26:40 PM »

I'm all for a chronological approach to archival releases if it's possible and advisable, but if we were ever going to see archival releases of 80s material (or late 70s and 80s), I woudln't see a need to cut things off at 1982/83/Landy.

A Brian-themed "Bedroom Tapes" (however much that title might be a misnomer) compilation that includes 70s stuff and up through the 80s would be just fine with me.

Now, there are probably some grey areas as far as what is "group" versus "solo" material. I know they ran into this with stuff like "Baby Blue" and "Love Surrounds Me" in terms of the BB sessions versus the initial "solo" sessions and what could be presented on the "Pacific Ocean Blue" reissue.

But they've put material from this era on Brian solo releases before (e.g. "Night Bloomin' Jasmine"), and I would imagine private home demo recordings from the mid-80s would be relatively firmly under Brian's personal ownership.
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« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2018, 03:25:41 PM »

Going Private was actually "Going Public"... many of us wish it had REMAINED private...
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« Reply #8 on: December 27, 2018, 06:16:02 AM »

I asked Bruce back around 2000 about his "Going Public" album being reissued on CD at that time, and his response was that it "should stay asleep."  3D
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« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2018, 09:25:54 AM »

I think what the first poster referred to as Going Private is what he assumes to be Bruce's [apparently never-to-be] follow up to Going Public. I know of the two songs he's talking about, but I'm unsure what exactly those songs were for, whether they be for a proposed solo album or as demos (I'm pretty sure the Captain & Tennille recorded both).

As far as Bruce and songwriting go, he's actually kind of an odd duck. I think maybe one of these days I'd like to start a thread on Bruce the songwriter. Probably won't be of interest to many, but so be it.
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jiggy22
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« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2018, 09:26:32 PM »

Bruce was asked about the followup to KTSA, and he mentioned he wanted to push for "Da Doo Ron Ron" to appear on the album. The problem with trying to construct an "accurate" version of the proposed album is that the majority of the recordings that were probably in serious consideration have never leaked out. This includes cuts such as "Bucks", "I'm a Man", "I Ran (All the Way Home)", the studio version of "Sweetie", "Candlesticks", "Boys and Girls", and "Children of the Night". Material recorded for the potential album that has been released, officially or not, includes "Be My Baby", "Why Don't They Let Us Fall in Love", "River Deep, Mountain High", and "Stevie".
 
Also, "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" is from late 1979, not from the Usher sessions. Speaking of the Usher sessions, those took place from 86-87, so they shouldn't be qualifying for an 80-83 collection.
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« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2018, 10:06:42 PM »

Bruce was asked about the followup to KTSA, and he mentioned he wanted to push for "Da Doo Ron Ron" to appear on the album. The problem with trying to construct an "accurate" version of the proposed album is that the majority of the recordings that were probably in serious consideration have never leaked out. This includes cuts such as "Bucks", "I'm a Man", "I Ran (All the Way Home)", the studio version of "Sweetie", "Candlesticks", "Boys and Girls", and "Children of the Night". Material recorded for the potential album that has been released, officially or not, includes "Be My Baby", "Why Don't They Let Us Fall in Love", "River Deep, Mountain High", and "Stevie".
 
Also, "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" is from late 1979, not from the Usher sessions. Speaking of the Usher sessions, those took place from 86-87, so they shouldn't be qualifying for an 80-83 collection.

"Night Blooming Jasmine" is actually from early '79. Smiley
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Jim V.
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« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2018, 06:42:51 AM »

"Night Blooming Jasmine" is actually from early '79. Smiley

The one on the reissued Brian Wilson album?
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sensiblechuckle
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« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2018, 08:07:52 AM »

For some reason, I always thought that Heavenly Bodies / In the Night Time / Black Widow were around 1983 or so, but I also haven't read the Wilson Project; is there anything about the origin of those songs there.

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« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2018, 08:34:03 AM »

For some reason, I always thought that Heavenly Bodies / In the Night Time / Black Widow were around 1983 or so, but I also haven't read the Wilson Project; is there anything about the origin of those songs there.



Heavenly Bodies is by Brian and Gary Usher and it was recorded in 1986. Black Widow and In the Night Time, along with Little Children and Up in the Sky (aka There's so Many), are all from the same Brian demo session sometime in the second half of '83. IIRC, 'In the Night Time' is just a bootlegger title and the actual name of the song is 'You'.
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« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2018, 08:50:38 AM »

"Night Blooming Jasmine" is actually from early '79. Smiley

The one on the reissued Brian Wilson album?

Yeah...as far as I know, that's the only version (other than the little bit that Brian and Andy recorded during the '87-'88 sessions specifically for "Rio Grande"). The '79 version was cut at the same time as a version of "Just Like Romeo and Juliet" for American Spring. It was recorded 2/22/79 at Tom Murphy's studio, and somehow it got misdated as 8/22/79 in the CD booklet. Brian must've been considering finishing it for The Beach Boys when he did that December '81 "interview" with Les Chan and company, 'cause he mentioned it then as a "new song", along with "Stevie", "Sweetie", and "City Blues".
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« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2018, 11:59:37 AM »

Interesting that it was confirmed that "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" dates to 1979. I remember when the BW '88 reissue came out in 2000 with that track, some folks wondered if it had been mis-dated, as it sounded very "1980/81-ish" in terms of Brian's voice and the overall arrangement/production sound.

If it was recorded back at Tom Murphy's studio rather than Criteria out in Florida with that crew, that might help to explain why it sounds less "Light Album-ish".

This was probably addressed in some old thread, but we do we have confirmed dates for Brian's post-KTSA sessions for songs such as "My Solution" and "Shortenin' Bread?" I recall hearing those dated from some time in 1980.
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« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2018, 12:20:30 PM »

Interesting that it was confirmed that "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" dates to 1979. I remember when the BW '88 reissue came out in 2000 with that track, some folks wondered if it had been mis-dated, as it sounded very "1980/81-ish" in terms of Brian's voice and the overall arrangement/production sound.

If it was recorded back at Tom Murphy's studio rather than Criteria out in Florida with that crew, that might help to explain why it sounds less "Light Album-ish".

This was probably addressed in some old thread, but we do we have confirmed dates for Brian's post-KTSA sessions for songs such as "My Solution" and "Shortenin' Bread?" I recall hearing those dated from some time in 1980.

Yes...

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song

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« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2018, 01:18:46 PM »

Interesting that it was confirmed that "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" dates to 1979. I remember when the BW '88 reissue came out in 2000 with that track, some folks wondered if it had been mis-dated, as it sounded very "1980/81-ish" in terms of Brian's voice and the overall arrangement/production sound.

If it was recorded back at Tom Murphy's studio rather than Criteria out in Florida with that crew, that might help to explain why it sounds less "Light Album-ish".

This was probably addressed in some old thread, but we do we have confirmed dates for Brian's post-KTSA sessions for songs such as "My Solution" and "Shortenin' Bread?" I recall hearing those dated from some time in 1980.

Yes...

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song



Awesome info, thanks!

While I'm sure this stuff is of varying completeness/quality, etc., it's just more of an indicator of how much stuff is in those vaults that we've never heard. Even when the band was running on fumes and Brian was at his low point, they were still cutting stuff sporadically in the studio.

I recall there's more stuff from later in 1982, including an early version of "California Calling" around the time of the "California Dreamin'" session.

Certainly, I'd love to hear that 1980 backing track for "My Solution" in master-quality as opposed to the murky version that has floated around for years.
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« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2018, 02:46:30 PM »


December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

 


Would this be the last producing and/or studio work that Denny did for what was (presumably intended to be) a BBs song?
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« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2018, 04:43:59 PM »


December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

 


Would this be the last producing and/or studio work that Denny did for what was (presumably intended to be) a BBs song?

It appears to be.
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« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2018, 04:58:07 PM »

So that’s what Song within a Song actually is!
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« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2018, 05:07:42 PM »

So that’s what Song within a Song actually is!

Yeah...he apparently intended them for some kind of medley/mash up.
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♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇
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« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2018, 05:17:00 PM »

How do they sound? I can't imagine those two tracks would've meshed well...
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« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2018, 06:57:19 PM »

How do they sound? I can't imagine those two tracks would've meshed well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4qcjTNXok


Only the brain of Brian could've stitched these two together and made it work....
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