The Smiley Smile Message Board

I've been weirdly obsessed with the 1980-1983 era for the longest time, and have been scouring the forums for more information on this era because there's so many songs here, and I just wanted to talk about it with people.

After finally listening to the rest of the Brian demos from the Usher sessions around 1983 like Black Widow and In the Night Time as well as selections from Bruce's Goin' Private, do you think that there could have been a feasible follow up that could be cobbled from the songs that would have been released in this era?

Some of the (mainly booted) but also rarities include:

Goin' Private sessions:
Let's Go to Heaven Tonight
If There Were Time

Cocaine Sessions / Brian Demos:
Stevie
Sweetie
Rings
Walking On Water
Oh Lord
City Blues
I Feel So Fine

Usher Sessions
In the Night Time
Heavenly Bodies
Black Widow
Night Bloomin' Jasmine

Misceallenous:
Be My Baby
Do Doo Ron Ron
Why Don't They Let Us Fall in Love
Goin to the Beach
Runaway
Beach Boys Medley
California Calling 1982
Don't Fight the Sea
You Are So Beautiful

Also anything from Carl Wilson, Youngblood, Looking Back With Love could have been fair game.

I guess, I'm just looking for if it could have been possible if the Beach Boys could have feasibly made a decent KTSA follow up album in 1981-1982 and how far along development was on this album.

If I were to make On album of songs available from this era I would go with this

1. Looking Back With Love
2. Stevie
3. Night Blooming Jasmine
4. Heaven
5. California Dreamin

6. Seems So Long Ago
7. Why Dont They Let Us Fall In Love
8. Reins
9. Goin’ To The Beach
10. Sweetie

Something like that. I have never heard of Going Private before though

Believe me, this era fascinates me to, but I stick strictly to what is known to have been recorded (however incompletely) or at least mentioned during the period right after KTSA's release through to Brian's "re-Landyfication" and the beginning of the Steve Levine project. So, "Reins" and "Walking On Water" are out, because those are from '86 (on my copy of the circulating tape that includes those two plus "Sweetie", an intro voice dates it to October of that year). However, "Sweetie" is still in, since a Beach Boys demo version was recorded in '81.

Thanks for clearing that up. For some reason I’ve seen it stated that Reigns and Walking on Water date from 1980-1981, which didn’t sound right to me because of the sound of Brian’s voice

Probably because Brian did a piano/vocal demo of "Sweetie" on that same tape, folks assumed the recording and all three songs were from '81.

^ That makes sense

I'm all for a chronological approach to archival releases if it's possible and advisable, but if we were ever going to see archival releases of 80s material (or late 70s and 80s), I woudln't see a need to cut things off at 1982/83/Landy.

A Brian-themed "Bedroom Tapes" (however much that title might be a misnomer) compilation that includes 70s stuff and up through the 80s would be just fine with me.

Now, there are probably some grey areas as far as what is "group" versus "solo" material. I know they ran into this with stuff like "Baby Blue" and "Love Surrounds Me" in terms of the BB sessions versus the initial "solo" sessions and what could be presented on the "Pacific Ocean Blue" reissue.

But they've put material from this era on Brian solo releases before (e.g. "Night Bloomin' Jasmine"), and I would imagine private home demo recordings from the mid-80s would be relatively firmly under Brian's personal ownership.

Going Private was actually "Going Public"... many of us wish it had REMAINED private...

I asked Bruce back around 2000 about his "Going Public" album being reissued on CD at that time, and his response was that it "should stay asleep."  :3d

I think what the first poster referred to as Going Private is what he assumes to be Bruce's [apparently never-to-be] follow up to Going Public. I know of the two songs he's talking about, but I'm unsure what exactly those songs were for, whether they be for a proposed solo album or as demos (I'm pretty sure the Captain & Tennille recorded both).

As far as Bruce and songwriting go, he's actually kind of an odd duck. I think maybe one of these days I'd like to start a thread on Bruce the songwriter. Probably won't be of interest to many, but so be it.

Bruce was asked about the followup to KTSA, and he mentioned he wanted to push for "Da Doo Ron Ron" to appear on the album. The problem with trying to construct an "accurate" version of the proposed album is that the majority of the recordings that were probably in serious consideration have never leaked out. This includes cuts such as "Bucks", "I'm a Man", "I Ran (All the Way Home)", the studio version of "Sweetie", "Candlesticks", "Boys and Girls", and "Children of the Night". Material recorded for the potential album that has been released, officially or not, includes "Be My Baby", "Why Don't They Let Us Fall in Love", "River Deep, Mountain High", and "Stevie".
 
Also, "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" is from late 1979, not from the Usher sessions. Speaking of the Usher sessions, those took place from 86-87, so they shouldn't be qualifying for an 80-83 collection.

"Night Blooming Jasmine" is actually from early '79. :)

The one on the reissued Brian Wilson album?

For some reason, I always thought that Heavenly Bodies / In the Night Time / Black Widow were around 1983 or so, but I also haven't read the Wilson Project; is there anything about the origin of those songs there.

.

Yeah...as far as I know, that's the only version (other than the little bit that Brian and Andy recorded during the '87-'88 sessions specifically for "Rio Grande"). The '79 version was cut at the same time as a version of "Just Like Romeo and Juliet" for American Spring. It was recorded 2/22/79 at Tom Murphy's studio, and somehow it got misdated as 8/22/79 in the CD booklet. Brian must've been considering finishing it for The Beach Boys when he did that December '81 "interview" with Les Chan and company, 'cause he mentioned it then as a "new song", along with "Stevie", "Sweetie", and "City Blues".

Interesting that it was confirmed that "Night Bloomin' Jasmine" dates to 1979. I remember when the BW '88 reissue came out in 2000 with that track, some folks wondered if it had been mis-dated, as it sounded very "1980/81-ish" in terms of Brian's voice and the overall arrangement/production sound.

If it was recorded back at Tom Murphy's studio rather than Criteria out in Florida with that crew, that might help to explain why it sounds less "Light Album-ish".

This was probably addressed in some old thread, but we do we have confirmed dates for Brian's post-KTSA sessions for songs such as "My Solution" and "Shortenin' Bread?" I recall hearing those dated from some time in 1980.

Yes...

early May 1980, WAVES mobile:
BE MY BABY
RIVER DEEP, MOUNTAIN HIGH
GREENBACK DOLLAR
WHY DON'T THEY LET US FALL IN LOVE
BUCKS (Mike original)
CHILDREN OF THE NIGHT (Mike original)
I'M A MAN (Brian original)

May 21, 1980, Western:
SONG WITHIN A SONG (aka remakes of SHORTENIN' BREAD and MY SOLUTION)

October 31, 1980, Western:
FLY

November 18, 1980, Western:
CANDLESTICKS
BOYS AND GIRLS (remake)
UP AGAIN

December 1980 - January 9 & 14, 1981, Sounds Good:
STEVIE (produced by Dennis and Garby Leon)

April 3, 1981, Gold Star:
untitled song

May 19, 1982, Western:
untitled song

May 27, 1982, Western:
WHY DON'T YOU TELL ME WHY

June 2, 1982, Western:
CRY LIKE A BABY
untitled song

Awesome info, thanks!

While I'm sure this stuff is of varying completeness/quality, etc., it's just more of an indicator of how much stuff is in those vaults that we've never heard. Even when the band was running on fumes and Brian was at his low point, they were still cutting stuff sporadically in the studio.

I recall there's more stuff from later in 1982, including an early version of "California Calling" around the time of the "California Dreamin'" session.

Certainly, I'd love to hear that 1980 backing track for "My Solution" in master-quality as opposed to the murky version that has floated around for years.

Would this be the last producing and/or studio work that Denny did for what was (presumably intended to be) a BBs song?

It appears to be.

So that’s what Song within a Song actually is!

Yeah...he apparently intended them for some kind of medley/mash up.

How do they sound? I can't imagine those two tracks would've meshed well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G02sDTNUUpk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2G4qcjTNXok


Only the brain of Brian could've stitched these two together and made it work....

Nah, I meant how did they sound meshed together :lol cause I'm with you...I can't see how that would've worked

Yeah...'cause one sounds like it was done on downers, and the other on uppers. :)

Uppers, and probably about half of Bolivia's finest.  :lol

Admittedly, the My Solution track does sound pretty cool, and I wonder how it would’ve sounded with vocals, but no way they would’ve fit together.

Redoing My Solution also just seems so...random. Between that, Do you like worms, and Been Way too long, I wonder if Brian was just trying to finish something artistic because he knew he was in bad shape at that point in his life

To me, the remake sounds to me like an attempt to make it into more of a conventional rock song, rather than a weird Halloween oddity. It's interesting to consider wether a new set of "real" lyrics would have been written for it. By the way, is it just me or does the ascending and descending guitar part sound a lot like the ending of Spring's version of Awake?

I was thinking more of something like 50s meets New Wave

Well, there's no indication that Brian tried to finish either DYLW or BWTL...in the first case, Guercio told Bruce he wanted it to open L>A> Light, but Bruce said they should only use it if Brian approved (which he apparently didn't). In the case of the latter, it seems Bruce cut a new backing track, but it was more likely intended for the Captain and Tennille.

Billy approves! :billy2

Okay, c-man (Craig) I've got some questions for you.

First off, with "Boys and Girls" did either the 1979 version or the 1980 version get any kind of usable vocal? The 1979 version was produced by Bruce and the 1980 version was Brian right?

The WAVES Mobile stuff, was it recorded for a Mike Love solo album or was it kind of a Mike and Brian demoing for The Beach Boys type thing? As it says on your list, they recorded "Be My Baby" and through some permutations it ended up on Looking Back with Love if I recall (though without any credit for B-ri). And then of course "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" came out on Made In California. But of course that doesn't mean it was originally intended for The Beach Boys.

And lastly, is "Why Don't You Tell Me Why" the same "song" as the thing Brian was playing during the infamous early '80s "sessions" with Dennis?

I've added my responses in CAPS below...

First off, with "Boys and Girls" did either the 1979 version or the 1980 version get any kind of usable vocal? The 1979 version was produced by Bruce and the 1980 version was Brian right?  CORRECT ON THE PRODUCTION CREDITS...I HAVEN'T HEARD EITHER, BUT I'M TOLD THE '79 VERSION HAS VOCALS (CAN'T REMEMBER IF THAT'S JUST BACKING VOCALS, OR IF A LEAD VOCAL ALSO EXISTS).

The WAVES Mobile stuff, was it recorded for a Mike Love solo album or was it kind of a Mike and Brian demoing for The Beach Boys type thing? As it says on your list, they recorded "Be My Baby" and though some permutations it ended up on Looking Back with Love if I recall (though without any credit for B-ri). And then of course "Why Don't They Let Us Fall In Love" came out on Made In California. But of course that doesn't mean it was originally intended for The Beach Boys. MY UNDERSTANDING IS THESE WERE DEMOS FOR POSSIBLE BEACH BOYS USE.

And lastly, is "Why Don't You Tell Me Why" the same "song" as the thing Brian was playing during the infamous early '80s "sessions" with Dennis?  CAN'T SAY FOR SURE SINCE I HAVEN'T HEARD THE '82 VERSION, BUT I'M GUESSING SO. INCIDENTALLY, SOURCES INDICATE THAT AT LEAST ONE OF THE "UNTITLED" '82 BW PRODUCTIONS I LISTED MAY BE FOR A SONG CALLED "WHY DO YOU TREAT ME SO GOOD".
[/quote]

In Order From When Recorded

Why Don’t They Let Us Fall In Love
Bucks
Song Within A Song
Children Of The Night
Be My Baby
River Deep, Mountain High
Greenback Dollar
I’m A Man
Fly
Candlesticks
Boys And Girls
Up Again
Stevie
Sweetie
I Ran
Untitled 4/3/1981

Untitled 5/19/1982
Why Don’t You Tell Me Why
Cry Like A Baby
Runaway
Labor Day
Oh Lord
City Blues
Heroes And Villains

Untitled Brian And Carl July 1983 Session
East Meets West
Chasin’ The Sky

"My Solution" in this version is edging over into "Transcendental Meditation" territory--imagine (if you dare!) an overlay of horns...Brian has stepped back from the "Monster Mash" figure to take the tune in a different direction.

If I were going to mash 'em together, I'd start with "Shortenin' Bread" and then just jump-cut into "My Solution." That would be quite a transition. Depending on how he worked the melody for the altered "Solution," he might've been able to cut back to "SB" either with another stark juxtaposition or more gradually by altering the bass line.

As was said, only Brian could have made that work--he'd made other such abrupt transitions elsewhere, with several of the SS tracks and with "Mess of Help" (which might become more clearly apparent when we get to the 1971-72 CE material and we might get some remixes of isolated parts...

I think this list says something about where Brian's songwriting / producer headspace was between 1980-1982 beyond what people saw during tours, considering he was either doing covers of 1950s / Phil Spector songs, or songs in parallel, such as Sweetie and Stevie.

I think this hypothetical album-had it have happened in 1981 or 1982- would have probably just been 15 Big Ones 2.0 except without any of the manic energy of that era.

I don't think even any holdovers from Carl's albums would have saved the album, but I still look forward to whenever any of these sessions come out, because even after this discussion, this entire period in studio still presents so much intrigue.

I always thought Labor Day was a solo Dennis recording.

I heard some of this stuff, years ago. I remember "Bucks" was kind of cool in that it had an enthusiastic Mike vocal and sort of rocked in an early '80s kind of way, but it also didn't sound like a Beach Boys song at all. My memory is very very vague but I want to say it had a less fast-paced "The Heat Is On" kind of thing going on. (I know that song came later, just reaching for a comparison)

Don't forget that there was a whole bunch of unused stuff from KTSA too. "Smokey Places" had a decent Brian vocal and Carl's interpretation of "I'll Always Love You" could easily have been an MOR hit in '80-'81 - though like "Bucks" its commerciality is offset by the fact that it doesn't sound like a Beach Boys song, just a random commercial song from that era. The KTSA outtakes weren't amazing, but I think they were superior in quality (at least production-wise) to most of what came after.

Me, I'd open the album with "Drip Drop" and go from there. But I'm weird.

I'm pretty fascinated by the late 70s and early-mid 80s stuff.

We've been talking in other threads about the old perceptions of who was producing the band in certain eras, and how that perception is sometimes proven wrong once we get our hands on the recordings involved.

I think a similar thing might be true of the later 70s and especially the 80s. A look at their discography would suggest their studio recording work eroded pretty quickly after 1979. Yet, it appears there's a good amount of material from an era where *no* albums were being released. Yes, it sounds like some of it wasn't too hot, some of it might have been good but more "solo-ish" than BB-sounding, and so on.

But yeah, if Mike cut a song called "Bucks" that sounds even remotely like "The Heat Is On", I want to hear it even if I assume I'm not going to find it to be a top-tier track. It's fascinating to hear what the BBs attempted to cook up between KTSA and BB '85, and how much that material either sounded like what was on the charts at the time, or was created in a total vacuum and sounded nothing like what was out there. And those proper album sessions have a ton of unheard stuff too. Even BB '85 has some stuff we haven't heard, and stuff that's probably more interesting than "At the Hop."

As I recall, from this period, some other interesting things were in the mix.

BROTHERS, COUSINS & FRIENDS, from what I recall, was Bruce's proposed title for KTSA.  I remember hearing rumors in 1982-83 a proposal was on the table to use that title for a new album to be produced by guest producers, all big names.  One of them was Lindsey Buckingham, who was interested only if he got to produce the entire album.  Eventually the concept evolved into the Steve Levine album.

A live version of "Runaway" was prepared as a follow-up single to "Come Go With Me," but was vetoed by CBS.  It later surfaced on the 1986 promotional Sunkist album.  This is, of course, old news, but I do remember Al announcing it as their new single at all the 1982 shows I attended.

According to one early 80s interview - I remember Bruce saying he was trying to persuade Carl to have the band record a cover version of "Rock & Roll Lullaby."

In early 80s interview, Al spoke about a cover version of the Del-Vikings' "Whispering Bells" which I assume evolved into "Island Girl."

Well spotted! I always thought about Buddy Holly's "Everyday" which has kinda the same melody. But this one could definitely be what was on Al's mind, especially when he really mentioned it before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITlCs4LjotA

Do you recall if the lyric "Bucks" was in reference to money? That's what I would assume.

Yeah, I believe it was. Literally the only thing I can remember clearly about it is Mike saying in the refrain "and that's BUCKS!" and there was a delay effect on the vocal. And as I said, it had that kind of Glenn Frey/Huey Lewis generic early '80s rock 'n' roll thing going on (except that it came earlier, again, just reaching for a very inexact comparison). I don't think there were any background vocals or evidence of group participation on it at all. It didn't sound like a BBs track at all but I remember thinking for a Mike solo track it was pretty decent.