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641155 Posts in 25599 Topics by 3641 Members - Latest Member: MilkyWay December 14, 2018, 11:31:53 AM
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Author Topic: swdstudyvideos.com (suspended)  (Read 12605 times)
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« Reply #150 on: November 05, 2018, 01:13:59 PM »

"When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all."

I've never heard a phrase of such pompous, self righteous wind-bag blather like that ever before.  That is all?  That is enough!

That wasn’t necessary
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« Reply #151 on: November 07, 2018, 11:21:07 AM »

I'm generally pretty shocked and offended by the celebrity-worshipping, anti-facts tone of much of this thread. When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all.

Where, "on the record" of Brother Records, Warner Records, or Epic Records releases does it say who is singing lead on "Sail On Sailor"? The LP of 1993 and the CD of 1985, plus the single 45 and demo promos on 45's only says it's the Beach Boys singing.

On the "Holland" LP jacket and the CD booklet and all insert notes only say that Blondie is the author and co-writer of "Leaving This Town." Nowhere can I find Blondie connected with SOS. You would think that if someone other than an established Beach boy is singing on a new song, the record company would tell you on the jacket or years later on the CD booklet.

Many years ago I bought the "Holland" LP. Since no credits are given, I always thought Carl sang the SOS lead. It sounds like him and not Michael, Al, Bruce Dennis or Brian. Up until these posts started I never considered Blondie could be the singer. But where is the proof? the "established, proven, on the record" proof? All I can find out about Blondie is on the internet -- that's not proof.

So will you or someone tell me where the record company says, on any official release of SOS, that Blondie is the singer of that song?  or Carl.
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« Reply #152 on: November 07, 2018, 01:08:01 PM »

I didn't wade into this issue previously, but let's be clear: It's Blondie Chaplin singing "Sail on Sailor" on every commercially released copy of the "Holland" album, and any other commercially released album/compilation that includes the Beach Boys' recording.

I'd have to pore through every BB album release, but I don't think every single album has a lead vocal credit for every song.

That being said, I think there are liner notes accompanying BB releases that mention that Blondie sings SOS. For instance, the '93 Good Vibrations Boxed Set:

CD #4 opens with one of the best Beach Boys songs of the last twenty years, Brian’s comforting “Sail On Sailor.” It wasn’t a big hit, although it charted twice, once in 1973 and once in 1975, it never got any higher that #49 in Billboard.

The lead singer on “Sail On Sailor” is guitar player Blondie Chaplin, one of two black South Africans (drummer Ricky Fataar was the other) who were with the Beach Boys during much of the first half of the decade. They had been introduced to the Beach Boys world when Carl Wilson produced an album by their family group, Flame. In early 1972, when Bruce Johnston left the band, Blondie and Ricky became official Beach Boys. (It’s interesting to note that the Beach Boys, with little fanfare, integrated what many consider to be the quintessential white pop group.)


I'm all for new insights into seemingly iron clad facts. Some folks didn't know for years that certain Beatles were missing from certain Beatles songs. BB fans are still debating "Be Here in the Morning." Dennis singing part of a line on IJWMFTT was staring us right in the face for decades and few noticed it for years and years.

But there is zero evidence that anybody but Blondie Chaplin is singing the lead on the released version of SOS. Every BB has said so. Every time he was on stage with the BBs, Blondie sang the song. And, if you *know* Blondie Chaplin's voice (and the other BBs for that matter), it's patently obvious that Blondie Chaplin is singing the song.

I absolutely understand this whole thing has been a delicate situation and that it hasn't been easy to just be unequivocal about everything. But it's 100% ridiculous and embarrassing to try to finagle some scenario where, contrary to every piece of evidence, the lack of a specific lead vocal credit on 1973 pressings of "Holland" means that it's actually plausible that it's not Blondie singing the song.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 01:09:32 PM by HeyJude » Logged

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« Reply #153 on: November 07, 2018, 02:03:02 PM »

The official Warner Bros. promo booklet issued at the time of Holland's release in January 1973, and available for free at places like Tower Records, says this about SOS:

"Sail On, Sailor" is a Brian Wilson-Jack Rieley song with writer credits suggesting informal assistance from a wide range of characters, among them Van Dyke Parks. It takes the composers sense of rueful sorcery to a politically radical plateau, accompanied lyrically by one of the more blunt statements of the quality of being ever uttered by the Beach Boys. Blondie Chaplin sings lead, and Carl Wilson produced.

So, there IS an official record company credit for Blondie's lead, and a contemporaneous one, no less. Plus, Blondie has talked about the recording session in many interviews since then, including how he sang the lead in two takes after both Dennis and Carl tried and gave up.
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John Brode
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« Reply #154 on: November 07, 2018, 02:49:26 PM »

There are a lot of lead vocals that get debated around here. Some of these are hard to tell, and what was initially thought has changed as different evidence has been presented. For example, a lot of people who initially thought Brian sang the verses on BHITM have come around, and now the majority belief is that it's Al Jardine. However, Sail On Sailor is not one of these songs. The boys can all sound pretty similar, but not a single person has doubted the lead singer of this song until this whole issue. I think we can all agree it's Blondie.
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« Reply #155 on: November 07, 2018, 05:27:42 PM »

The liner notes of 2000 two-fer reissue of CATP/Holland also says as follows:

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Blondie Chaplin stepped up for another magnificent vocal performance (Dennis had a go at first, but left for the beach before getting it right!)…

Also, in the same liner notes, Tom Petty says:

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It's Blondie takin' the lead vocal here on Sail On, Sailor.

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« Reply #156 on: November 07, 2018, 06:28:54 PM »

SWD doesn't claim to be a historian. He is not interested in conveying that aspect of his work with the Beach Boys. He can only recall events as he remembers them. If you disagree with a point of his, I doubt he cares that much. But it is those among us who want to browbeat him with their point and want him to acknowledge their absolute correctness that has put this thread and his website in it's current condition.

I have my opinion about SOS. But in the light of everything that SWD has brought to this forum, I could not careless if he said Dolly Parton sang it.

Just move on and let the man do his thang.  Cool
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #157 on: November 07, 2018, 08:00:18 PM »

But it is those among us who want to browbeat him with their point and want him to acknowledge their absolute correctness that has put this thread and his website in it's current condition.

I have mentioned this elsewhere but it bears repeating that this is not why his website is in its current condition.

Its in its current condition because Mr. Desper is concerned that a potential controversy over a long-held belief about who sang the song could lead to him no longer having the permission to use the music at all. If we dropped this whole conversation entirely, the music would go back up eventually.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 08:04:42 PM by Chocolate Shake Man » Logged
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« Reply #158 on: November 08, 2018, 10:04:21 PM »

I'm generally pretty shocked and offended by the celebrity-worshipping, anti-facts tone of much of this thread. When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all.

So how is the museum doing,  Historian Linusoli?   LOL



 

Judging by recent conversations here I'd say not that well
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« Reply #159 on: November 08, 2018, 10:04:37 PM »

"When the claims of a participant contradict things that are established, proven, on the record, it is our responsibility as music historians to ask why. That is all."

I've never heard a phrase of such pompous, self righteous wind-bag blather like that ever before.  That is all?  That is enough!

thank you
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« Reply #160 on: November 09, 2018, 01:31:37 PM »

But it is those among us who want to browbeat him with their point and want him to acknowledge their absolute correctness that has put this thread and his website in it's current condition.

I have mentioned this elsewhere but it bears repeating that this is not why his website is in its current condition.

Its in its current condition because Mr. Desper is concerned that a potential controversy over a long-held belief about who sang the song could lead to him no longer having the permission to use the music at all. If we dropped this whole conversation entirely, the music would go back up eventually.

Have you considered that maybe Mr Desper was told to take it down by BRI?  Stephen himself cast aspersions on who was singing the lead on the released SOS (he has deleted those posts on here).  Maybe the powers that be didn't take to kindly to that, or unreleased material being on there, such as the Fourth of July demo.
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« Reply #161 on: November 09, 2018, 02:37:16 PM »

In all honesty I am just sad that I didn't get a chance to see it.
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Chocolate Shake Man
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« Reply #162 on: November 09, 2018, 06:48:06 PM »

But it is those among us who want to browbeat him with their point and want him to acknowledge their absolute correctness that has put this thread and his website in it's current condition.

I have mentioned this elsewhere but it bears repeating that this is not why his website is in its current condition.

Its in its current condition because Mr. Desper is concerned that a potential controversy over a long-held belief about who sang the song could lead to him no longer having the permission to use the music at all. If we dropped this whole conversation entirely, the music would go back up eventually.

Have you considered that maybe Mr Desper was told to take it down by BRI? 

No I haven't nor do I have any reason to believe that's the case.
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