An interesting view on Brian's "lecherous" lyrics

[Smilin Ed H]

Not that long ago since Jagger (at 59 or 60) was hanging out with a 17 year-old model.  Maybe he was helping her with her homework.  Pick up any Sunday supplement magazine and you're looking at 17 year-old girls modelling outfits for women in their 20s and 30s - or is to appeal to their husbands and boyfriends?

I think BW treated his daughters and Marilyn appallingly; I don't think there's too much more to it than that.

"Brian & Marilyn were married 12/7/64 when he was 22 and she was 16. But when they first met, October 1962 at Pandora's Box, it was 20/14, and by the summer of the following year, they were in essence living together at the Rovell's house. Just pointing out that Brian has a long history of attraction to young teens."  Okay, so 21/15 wouldn't look good by our standards now, but how was it looked upon in the neighbourhood at that time?  Or was it a case of, "Oh, it's one of the Wilsons. They're nuts, you know."

As for this, "Has it not been posited that a reason for Brian's artistic and commercial success was his understanding of and identification with the teenage psyche?" Well... if that's the case and this is a key element in the music's appeal, what does it say about the rest of us; what sort of feeling does it arouse in our minds? I left my teens a long time ago. 

[Rocker]

BTW, what's with "Rollin up to heaven" ? I think I hear "she's not worried 'bout her parents" in that song, around 1:37, so it's probably about a younger girl, isn't it? And you know the rest of the lyrics I guess

[rb]

For the record (for what that's worth coming from a cipher on a message board, such as I am) I don't reckon Brian was or is a 'pervert', whatever else he may be. I figure his artistic and commercial success came from his absolute brilliance as a musician. The lyrics for songs like LL, Tomboy, and I wanna Pick You Up don't offend me at all - I will admit to my eyes bugging out of my head a bit when I first heard the line about one shaving one's legs. I don't even think there's necessarily  a huge difference between 21 and 15. For Jerry Lee, by every account I've read Myra was the mature one of the pair from the beginning. For Brian, Marilyn's parents seemingly had a good grasp of the situation, which to me is somehow important.

Look, Brian could have used sections of the Yellow Pages as lyrics and it still would have sounded great - not sure though if I'd feel the same way if he'd used passages from Mein Kampf or something like that.

[Smilin Ed H]

"I will admit to my eyes bugging out of my head a bit when I first heard the line about one shaving one's legs."

Know what you mean! They're just so dumb anyhow!

[Andrew G. Doe]

"Brian & Marilyn were married 12/7/64 when he was 22 and she was 16. But when they first met, October 1962 at Pandora's Box, it was 20/14, and by the summer of the following year, they were in essence living together at the Rovell's house. Just pointing out that Brian has a long history of attraction to young teens."  Okay, so 21/15 wouldn't look good by our standards now, but how was it looked upon in the neighbourhood at that time?  Or was it a case of, "Oh, it's one of the Wilsons. They're nuts, you know."

Well, I'm no expert on social mores in early sixties Hawthorne (but I'll bet someone is !), however, I present to you these two scenarios (scenaria ?):

#1
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Brian Wilson, hugely wealthy main man of the famous Beach Boys to her parents.

#2
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Dwayne Geekly, burger jockey at Foster's Freez to her parents.

Now. which one is more likely to be told "sure, you can sleep in the girls room", and which one is going to have his sorry ass kicked all the way down Sierra Bonita ?

[rb]

"Brian & Marilyn were married 12/7/64 when he was 22 and she was 16. But when they first met, October 1962 at Pandora's Box, it was 20/14, and by the summer of the following year, they were in essence living together at the Rovell's house. Just pointing out that Brian has a long history of attraction to young teens."  Okay, so 21/15 wouldn't look good by our standards now, but how was it looked upon in the neighbourhood at that time?  Or was it a case of, "Oh, it's one of the Wilsons. They're nuts, you know."

Well, I'm no expert on social mores in early sixties Hawthorne (but I'll bet someone is !), however, I present to you these two scenarios (scenaria ?):

#1
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Brian Wilson, hugely wealthy main man of the famous Beach Boys to her parents.

#2
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Dwayne Geekly, burger jockey at Foster's Freez to her parents.

Now. which one is more likely to be told "sure, you can sleep in the girls room", and which one is going to have his sorry ass kicked all the way down Sierra Bonita ?

Hmmmmm... depends whether her parents want her to have an 'in' in the music biz, or the exciting world of fast-food retail.

[Lorenschwartz]

"Brian & Marilyn were married 12/7/64 when he was 22 and she was 16. But when they first met, October 1962 at Pandora's Box, it was 20/14, and by the summer of the following year, they were in essence living together at the Rovell's house. Just pointing out that Brian has a long history of attraction to young teens."  Okay, so 21/15 wouldn't look good by our standards now, but how was it looked upon in the neighbourhood at that time?  Or was it a case of, "Oh, it's one of the Wilsons. They're nuts, you know."

Well, I'm no expert on social mores in early sixties Hawthorne (but I'll bet someone is !), however, I present to you these two scenarios (scenaria ?):

#1
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Brian Wilson, hugely wealthy main man of the famous Beach Boys to her parents.

#2
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Dwayne Geekly, burger jockey at Foster's Freez to her parents.

Now. which one is more likely to be told "sure, you can sleep in the girls room", and which one is going to have his sorry ass kicked all the way down Sierra Bonita ?

Whomever was more well-hung

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

"Brian & Marilyn were married 12/7/64 when he was 22 and she was 16. But when they first met, October 1962 at Pandora's Box, it was 20/14, and by the summer of the following year, they were in essence living together at the Rovell's house. Just pointing out that Brian has a long history of attraction to young teens."  Okay, so 21/15 wouldn't look good by our standards now, but how was it looked upon in the neighbourhood at that time?  Or was it a case of, "Oh, it's one of the Wilsons. They're nuts, you know."

Well, I'm no expert on social mores in early sixties Hawthorne (but I'll bet someone is !), however, I present to you these two scenarios (scenaria ?):

#1
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Brian Wilson, hugely wealthy main man of the famous Beach Boys to her parents.

#2
Marilyn (aged 15) introduces 21-year-old Dwayne Geekly, burger jockey at Foster's Freez to her parents.

Now. which one is more likely to be told "sure, you can sleep in the girls room", and which one is going to have his sorry ass kicked all the way down Sierra Bonita ?

Whomever was more well-hung

  Or, actually, in this case... 

[endofposts]

*

[Wilsonista]

AGD and forgetmarie have hit the nail on the head regarding Brian and Marilyn.

I especially loved AGD's name for the burger flipper. 

[endofposts]

It's not that different than Celine Dion and her manager-husband, Rene Angelil.  He met Celine when she was 12 and he was 38, and her parents offered her to him to make her a star.  How could they know that those crazy kids would fall in love?  Though Rene obviously was no kid.  Back in the '60s, legal adulthood was 21, so Brian was still one of the kids when he met Marilyn, legally speaking.

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

  Back in the '60s, legal adulthood was 21, so Brian was still one of the kids when he met Marilyn, legally speaking.

That's an excellent point.

[MBE]

I think this subject is interesting. Who among us cannot say that we have never found a teen attractive? The difference is would we act on it. I can say no. I remember my friends wife told me I was lying when I said that I wouldn't go out with a 18 year old. I'm 30 now and really I wouldn't I just don't think I would have anything much to say. I am glad my girlfriend is in my age group and wouldn't want it any other way really. Again do I think Jerry Lee and Brian loved there brides? Sure but both were men who didn't deal with reality like you or I, and were immature. Doesn't excuse it though.


BTW she was 13 not that it makes a hell of a lot of difference. One other thing Jerry was like 14 when he first got married and the girl was like 18 or 19. Interesting how that worked.

[Lorenschwartz]

i recend my well hung remark....tasteless

[♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇]

i recend my well hung remark....tasteless

Maybe, but I Lol'd. 

[MBE]

I think this topic has been really interesting.

[Pablo.]

This a great and a bit ambiguous song, an example of writing from a character's point of view:

Art Lover
(Ray Davies)

Sunday afternoon there's something special
It's just like another world.
Jogging in the park is my excuse
To look at all the little girls.

I'm not a flasher in a rain coat,
I'm not a dirty old man,
I'm not gonna snatch you from your mother,
I'm an art lover.
Come to daddy,
Ah, come to daddy,
Come to daddy.

Pretty little legs, I want to draw them,
Like a Degas ballerina.
Pure white skin, like porcelain,
She's a work of art and I should know
I'm an art lover.
Come to daddy,
And I'll give you some spangles.

Little girl don't notice me
Watching as she innocently plays.
She can't see me staring at her
Because I'm always wearing shades.
She feeds the ducks, looks at the flowers.
I follow her around for hours and hours.
I'd take her home, but that could never be,
She's just a substitute
For what's been taken from me.
Ah, come to daddy, come on.

Sunday afternoon can't last forever,
Wish I could take you home.
So, come on, give us a smile
Before you vanish out of view.
I've learned to appreciate you
The way art lovers do,
And I only want to look at you.

[Lorenschwartz]

John Mark Karr's favorite song apparently!!! he's a Bowie look alike too.

[Jon Stebbins]

I think you all are too obsessed with this age thing. Maybe that's because when i was turning 30 my girlfriend at the time was 17. Some people raised their eyebrows at that. But now I'm 48 and she's 35 and we've been living together for 18 years, we've been married for 11 and we have two great kids ages 10 and 5. And in seven years when my daughter brings home a 30 year old man...I'll kill him. No...I'll try to evaluate him fairly and find the positive things that attracted my very well-balanced and intelligent daughter to him. Then I'll kill him.

Anyway, I'm pushing 50 and my wife is still pretty and young...and I wouldn't change anything...especially the age difference.

[Lola Jane]

Posted by: Jon Stebbins

I think you all are too obsessed with this age thing. Maybe that's because when i was turning 30 my girlfriend at the time was 17. Some people raised their eyebrows at that. But now I'm 48 and she's 35 and we've been living together for 18 years, we've been married for 11 and we have two great kids ages 10 and 5. And in seven years when my daughter brings home a 30 year old man...I'll kill him. No...I'll try to evaluate him fairly and find the positive things that attracted my very well-balanced and intelligent daughter to him. Then I'll kill him.

Anyway, I'm pushing 50 and my wife is still pretty and young...and I wouldn't change anything...especially the age difference.

 
Would it be more/less acceptable if it was an old lady and a young guy?  I'm trying to imagine, say, Barbra Streisand singing the lyrics about young men.

[Sir Rob]

or Chuck Berry, who never sang about it but certainly DID it)

Have you never paid much attention to the lyrics of Memphis Tennessee?!

[Andreas]

or Chuck Berry, who never sang about it but certainly DID it)

Have you never paid much attention to the lyrics of Memphis Tennessee?!

Memphis is a genuine father-daughter song.

[Sir Rob]

or Chuck Berry, who never sang about it but certainly DID it)

Have you never paid much attention to the lyrics of Memphis Tennessee?!

Memphis is a genuine father-daughter song.

Perhaps but don't you think there's a little knowing ambiguity there, certainly in the way it's presented to the listener?  Until the last verse I think you could be forgiven for thinking the song's about an adult young woman.  I mean we're talking about an era here when Chuck's contemporaries were singing about 'bald head Sally' (dropped from The Beatles' version - I wonder why?) and, in real life, marrying their 13 year old cousins, well, one of them was marrying his 13 year old cousin.

[rb]

Hey baby you're a sweet young thing,
Still tied to Mommy's apron strings,
I don't even dare to ask your age,
It's enough to know you're here backstage,
You're Jailbait, and I just can't wait,
Jailbait baby come on
One chase baby, all I need,
My decision made at lightning speed,
I don't even want to know your name,
It's enough to know you feel the same,
Jailbait, and I just can't wait,
Jailbait baby get down

Tell you baby oh you look so fine,
Sending quivers up and down my spine,
I don't care about our different ages,
I'm an open book with well thumbed pages,
Jailbait, oh and I ain't too late,
Jailbait baby get down

Ahhhh, the poetry of Lemmy... and this does not come close to comparing with the sleaze factor of the Jailbait song by Andre Williams. These tunes may help put Brian's more lecherous moments into perspective.

I wonder if 'Hey Nineteen' was originally titled 'Hey Thirteen'?

[Aegir]

A few years ago, a girl I knew (who at the time was around 15) was in a relationship with an adult member of a very popular band. They broke up before I really knew her that well, but a little later she started dating another adult someone in a far less popular band. I remember her telling me one time that her parents let him sleep in her room. Now, if she got away with it with the barely-on-the-map-band member, I could imagine that when she was with the uber-famous-MTV-band member, it was also allowed. And this was the 21st century.