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641159 Posts in 25599 Topics by 3641 Members - Latest Member: MilkyWay December 14, 2018, 01:50:13 PM
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Author Topic: Beach Boys in Glastonbury comeback talks after not so Good Vibrations since 2012  (Read 7191 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #50 on: May 17, 2018, 02:25:00 PM »

I think at this stage, in terms of the "archive", we're past the point of trying to use piggybacking onto hits (either thematically or literally) as the *main* outlet for archival material. I'm not saying that can't be part of the strategy.

But the vaults need to be opened wide, and the only people who want "Sea of Tunes" multi-disc-set style compilations of *every second* of the session tapes for eventual hit songs are the same people who, in some cases, already have those SOT sets, and/or are just as interested in the esoteric vault material from the 70s and 80s and so on.

I think mainstream targeted releases (whether "Sunshine Tomorrow" or something else) are great to put out there. But the realization needs to be that the archival material has its own inherent value, and also that archival releases aren't going to be popular enough to chart (high or at all), and that the purpose would be to service the several thousand to tens-of-thousands of hardcore fans.

We've made more than enough "bridge" projects that could have turned casual fans into hardcore fans. A 20-disc set of every second of every session tape only for songs that appear on "Sounds of Summer" is not something that is going to appeal to anybody but super hardcore fans. And even some of the hardcore fans would rather see a 2-CD set of Brother-era rarities or a 5-CD live boxed set than *multiple discs* of raw session tapes of hit 60s tracks.

I'd love for *everything* to put out in raw form (via digital downloads of course).

But we need to start with something substantial but not like 50 disc-sets. The areas I would focus on (beyond yearly "Copyright Extension" releases) would be:

- Live Releases via Digital Download - Release 1 or 2 soundboard live recordings each month spanning from the 60s to 1997 (and 2012)

- To jump start/promote the live online archive, they could do a multi-disc set of some of the best live stuff covering the entire career

- Deluxe Editions of key (or all) albums, especially 1970-1985, with original mixes, possibly full album remixes, and the 1-2 discs of outtakes

- Some sort of "Bedroom Tapes-ish" release focusing on Brian's stuff from the later 60s into the 70s (and possibly 80s); this could be a very loose theme utilizing home demos and studio stuff

- In lieu of (or in conjunction with) deluxe editions of the 70s/80s albums would be a true "Brother Rarities" multi-disc set; this would be perhaps where the true gems come from

- Looping back around to online/download territory (and/or streaming), they could then also dump a huge studio archive online. *This* is where the 87 false starts for songs could be housed

This stuff is all there ready to be released. Some of it has even already been mixed for old projects, etc. How about something like this:

Fall 2018 - "Friends" era Copyright Extension Set
Holiday Season 2018 - "The Ultimate Live Collection" 5-CD Boxed Set
Launching December 2018 - Live online archive of downloadable shows, 1-2 per month
Spring 2019 - "Bedroom Tapes" 3 to 5-CD Boxed Set
Fall 2019 - "20/20", etc. era Copyright Extension Set
Holiday Season 2019 - "Brother Rarities" 5-CD Boxed Set
Spring 2020 - An earlier-in-the-year "Copyright Extension" set for "Sunfower" era material, followed by....
Spring 2020 - "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" "Immersion" style boxed sets
Fall/Holiday 2020 - "So Tough" and "Holland" Immersion sets

Yes, this is probably too packed of a schedule. Ideally, it's usually like one big project per year at most. But guess what? We're all getting older. There's probably a few million Beatles fans who died waiting for a decent "Let It Be" DVD/Blu-ray. If music industry trends/politics dictate less physical releases, then some or most of the stuff above can be all-digital (downloads *and* streaming).

But it's all stuff the group members wouldn't have to lift one finger to do. Just listen to it (or look at it), sign off, and collect some extra monies.
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« Reply #51 on: May 17, 2018, 02:55:14 PM »

I think at this stage, in terms of the "archive", we're past the point of trying to use piggybacking onto hits (either thematically or literally) as the *main* outlet for archival material. I'm not saying that can't be part of the strategy.

But the vaults need to be opened wide, and the only people who want "Sea of Tunes" multi-disc-set style compilations of *every second* of the session tapes for eventual hit songs are the same people who, in some cases, already have those SOT sets, and/or are just as interested in the esoteric vault material from the 70s and 80s and so on.

I think mainstream targeted releases (whether "Sunshine Tomorrow" or something else) are great to put out there. But the realization needs to be that the archival material has its own inherent value, and also that archival releases aren't going to be popular enough to chart (high or at all), and that the purpose would be to service the several thousand to tens-of-thousands of hardcore fans.

We've made more than enough "bridge" projects that could have turned casual fans into hardcore fans. A 20-disc set of every second of every session tape only for songs that appear on "Sounds of Summer" is not something that is going to appeal to anybody but super hardcore fans. And even some of the hardcore fans would rather see a 2-CD set of Brother-era rarities or a 5-CD live boxed set than *multiple discs* of raw session tapes of hit 60s tracks.

I'd love for *everything* to put out in raw form (via digital downloads of course).

But we need to start with something substantial but not like 50 disc-sets. The areas I would focus on (beyond yearly "Copyright Extension" releases) would be:

- Live Releases via Digital Download - Release 1 or 2 soundboard live recordings each month spanning from the 60s to 1997 (and 2012)

- To jump start/promote the live online archive, they could do a multi-disc set of some of the best live stuff covering the entire career

- Deluxe Editions of key (or all) albums, especially 1970-1985, with original mixes, possibly full album remixes, and the 1-2 discs of outtakes

- Some sort of "Bedroom Tapes-ish" release focusing on Brian's stuff from the later 60s into the 70s (and possibly 80s); this could be a very loose theme utilizing home demos and studio stuff

- In lieu of (or in conjunction with) deluxe editions of the 70s/80s albums would be a true "Brother Rarities" multi-disc set; this would be perhaps where the true gems come from

- Looping back around to online/download territory (and/or streaming), they could then also dump a huge studio archive online. *This* is where the 87 false starts for songs could be housed

This stuff is all there ready to be released. Some of it has even already been mixed for old projects, etc. How about something like this:

Fall 2018 - "Friends" era Copyright Extension Set
Holiday Season 2018 - "The Ultimate Live Collection" 5-CD Boxed Set
Launching December 2018 - Live online archive of downloadable shows, 1-2 per month
Spring 2019 - "Bedroom Tapes" 3 to 5-CD Boxed Set
Fall 2019 - "20/20", etc. era Copyright Extension Set
Holiday Season 2019 - "Brother Rarities" 5-CD Boxed Set
Spring 2020 - An earlier-in-the-year "Copyright Extension" set for "Sunfower" era material, followed by....
Spring 2020 - "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" "Immersion" style boxed sets
Fall/Holiday 2020 - "So Tough" and "Holland" Immersion sets

Yes, this is probably too packed of a schedule. Ideally, it's usually like one big project per year at most. But guess what? We're all getting older. There's probably a few million Beatles fans who died waiting for a decent "Let It Be" DVD/Blu-ray. If music industry trends/politics dictate less physical releases, then some or most of the stuff above can be all-digital (downloads *and* streaming).

But it's all stuff the group members wouldn't have to lift one finger to do. Just listen to it (or look at it), sign off, and collect some extra monies.


Yes.  Especially the digital download release of soundboard recordings of the years you indicated.
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RubberSoul13
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« Reply #52 on: May 17, 2018, 07:26:47 PM »

Maybe this has been mentioned in the big paragraphs somewhere...but I'd really much rather have a big commemorative release that truly honors the good that came from the C50 experience. A REAL live album...all the tunes that made the cut at any point...good, bad, and ugly...without the Joe Thomas gloss. Wrap it up in a nice big box, include some facsimilie setlists and ticket stubs...kinda like the "McCartney Archive Collection" that Sir Paul is doing...very, very...very slowly.
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« Reply #53 on: May 18, 2018, 05:41:58 AM »

Maybe this has been mentioned in the big paragraphs somewhere...but I'd really much rather have a big commemorative release that truly honors the good that came from the C50 experience. A REAL live album...all the tunes that made the cut at any point...good, bad, and ugly...without the Joe Thomas gloss. Wrap it up in a nice big box, include some facsimilie setlists and ticket stubs...kinda like the "McCartney Archive Collection" that Sir Paul is doing...very, very...very slowly.

I'd love to see that too.   The C50 live material that we got was pretty bad.   But, I doubt very much that any further reunion live stuff would see the light of day while there's still a touring version of The Beach Boys on the road. 
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« Reply #54 on: May 18, 2018, 09:45:00 AM »

I agree with KDS. As long as Mike is "still tourin'" with his band, there will be no such release of a C50 project. The reasons should be obvious.

And for another reason, in terms of marketing and potential audiences and buyers, the more casual fans who bought the official C50 live release will possibly not want to buy another, thinking they already have a live C50 release. Think outside the more invested fan base of diehards who follow this stuff daily, and the reasons there will be clear too.

Just look at those last shows of C50, played in the UK, and put the quality of those performances up against the other stuff including the current Beach Boys tours. If they released a full, complete show from that leg of the tour when the band kicked it up a few notches and delivered some amazing moments on stage, the same issues and questions that pretty much shattered and split the fanbase starting in Fall 2012 and linger today will come back and I doubt certain parties would want to revisit all that again.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 09:45:56 AM by guitarfool2002 » Logged

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« Reply #55 on: May 18, 2018, 09:51:55 AM »

In terms of what to release, I'll go back to "Making of..." type releases, where the full session tapes when available are presented and packaged chronologically and in raw form to show the development of some of the band's most iconic hit records.

I've been saying for a long time, the bar had been set very high by Rhino, specifically Rhino Handmade and their deluxe releases and packaging especially on the Monkees back catalog. They put out what they knew the diehard fans would want and would buy. Things like the Headquarters Sessions, the 1967 Live box deluxe set, and the repackaging of each Monkees album chock full of outtakes, sessions, alternate mixes, etc...what was available from each album.

Rhino and their Handmade division did it right by the Monkees fans, and I always hold those releases up as one way to do it right in terms of getting product out there for the niche, diehard fans who are more invested than the "Greatest Hits" buyers. They knew these releases would not appeal to several hundred thousand platinum-sales level numbers, and they did limited releases for the fans who would buy such releases instead.

It can be done.
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“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

"Every single person who criticized Brian for having She & Him, Kacey Musgraves, Sebu and Nate Ruess guesting on his solo album can now officially go heartily f*** themselves." - Wirestone
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« Reply #56 on: May 18, 2018, 12:56:34 PM »

While a big, high-profile release of something from C50 is unlikely given the aftermath of that tour, I don't think it's impossible that 2012 shows could be released as part of a broad, career-spanning online downloadable archive of concerts.

If they released a few shows per month from every decade, and randomly slipped in some 2012 shows, I doubt that would be a huge issue.

But a big Blu-ray release of Royal Albert Hall or Red Rocks or Hollywood Bowl (the latter was shot in 3-D even, apparently) is probably unlikely given the political nature of the fallout of that tour. There's also the *possible* issue of Bennett being in all of that C50 footage. They could edit around it, and maybe after a certain amount of time it might not be deemed a deal breaker or anything, but Bennett being on every show on that tour probably doesn't *help* any release's prospects.

It's still unclear if Royal Albert Hall was truly, fully professionally shot on video. It looks like they had some on-stage sort of "go pro" style HD cameras, but I don't think the show was captured with a ton of cameras the way Red Rocks or Hollywood Bowl was (Wembley also likely exists in full pro-shot, as would most any show where there was an in-house video feed). The easy solution, when or if they ever do release more stuff from C50 would be, on the audio front, to just release the RAH show. In terms of video, they could grab the Red Rocks or Hollywood Bowl show and then supplement it with songs from RAH and Wembley, encompassing all 61 songs performed on the tour. But yeah, unlikely anytime soon.

In conjunction with a "Live" CD (or download) boxed set, they could also do a DVD/Blu-ray boxed set coverin all of the pro-shot video stuff that BRI owns. Such a set could also include C50 footage.
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« Reply #57 on: May 18, 2018, 06:38:56 PM »

For a band that essentially toured for 36 years straight, the amount of live stuff released is absolutely pathetic.
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« Reply #58 on: May 19, 2018, 08:49:15 AM »

For a band that essentially toured for 36 years straight, the amount of live stuff released is absolutely pathetic.

Especially when compared to other legacy acts whose official live output either dwarfs or is close to dwarfing their studio catalog. 
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« Reply #59 on: May 19, 2018, 06:22:29 PM »

I agree with KDS. As long as Mike is "still tourin'" with his band, there will be no such release of a C50 project. The reasons should be obvious.

And for another reason, in terms of marketing and potential audiences and buyers, the more casual fans who bought the official C50 live release will possibly not want to buy another, thinking they already have a live C50 release. Think outside the more invested fan base of diehards who follow this stuff daily, and the reasons there will be clear too.

Just look at those last shows of C50, played in the UK, and put the quality of those performances up against the other stuff including the current Beach Boys tours. If they released a full, complete show from that leg of the tour when the band kicked it up a few notches and delivered some amazing moments on stage, the same issues and questions that pretty much shattered and split the fanbase starting in Fall 2012 and linger today will come back and I doubt certain parties would want to revisit all that again.

I think someone in 2012/13 suggested the footage from London or the Hollywood Bowl if unused (as now appears to be the case) could have been given to the touring party as a thank you gift. If so, feel free to share!  LOL
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« Reply #60 on: May 23, 2018, 11:36:26 AM »

For a band that essentially toured for 36 years straight, the amount of live stuff released is absolutely pathetic.

The live stuff we got from the C50 tour still makes me sick
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« Reply #61 on: May 23, 2018, 12:36:26 PM »

For a band that essentially toured for 36 years straight, the amount of live stuff released is absolutely pathetic.

The live stuff we got from the C50 tour still makes me sick

It's really just *some* of the tracks on the C50 CD set that sounds pretty awful in terms of autotune. Some of the stuff on the CD set sounds okay. It's all mixed rather dry and sterile-sounding, but there's fine-sounding stuff on that set, like some of Al and Dave's leads, etc.

Meanwhile, the sound on the C50 "Live in Concert" Blu-ray was just fine. If they had just included the entire concert, then that would be pretty close to perfect (other than that show, wherever it was (Arizona?) missing some songs performed at other dates).
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« Reply #62 on: May 23, 2018, 01:24:02 PM »

For a band that essentially toured for 36 years straight, the amount of live stuff released is absolutely pathetic.

The live stuff we got from the C50 tour still makes me sick


Well, there were a couple of nice radio broadcasts (not perfect but cool to listen to), but for the CD release I agree. I tried to listen to it a couple of times for more than just two or three songs but I just can't get through it. The performances themselves are great of course, but the sound.... And I believe they just put together some of the recordings that were released either as radio or TV broadcast but still messed them up with the post production or whatever it was.


Here's a nice collection of recordings:

https://www.npr.org/event/music/154917913/the-beach-boys-in-concert
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 01:40:17 PM by Rocker » Logged

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« Reply #63 on: May 23, 2018, 11:03:10 PM »

I guess we take what we can get and thanks for reminding me about that NPR recording. I think it was mentioned back in the day but DIA and Isn’t It Time we’re just the 2011 re-recording and album version.

It would be great if someone could do a ‘best of’ fan mix. (NPR, Chiba,  BBC Radio 2, Live Album etc) to get most, if not all the songs of the tour. Come on you young tech wizards. Help us old geezers out!  LOL
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« Reply #64 on: May 24, 2018, 12:45:49 AM »

I guess we take what we can get and thanks for reminding me about that NPR recording. I think it was mentioned back in the day but DIA and Isn’t It Time we’re just the 2011 re-recording and album version.




Well, "Isn't it time" was from the China TV broadcast IIRC and it seemes to me that was a mix of studio and live recording (I recall hearing Al singing doubletracked vocals and then going singletracked for a couple of lines).

I just put on the 50th live CD and listen to it. It helped that I had it in mind as a piece of garbage, so everything that isn't as terrible is a welcome "surprise". Probably also better not to listen with headphones. "Don't back down" is a crime though. Let's see if I can get through the whole thing or at least one CD. Currently "Then I kissed her" is playing.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 12:52:46 AM by Rocker » Logged

a diseased bunch of mo'fos if there ever was one… their beauty is so awesome that listening to them at their best is like being in some vast dream cathedral decorated with a thousand gleaming American pop culture icons.

- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #65 on: May 26, 2018, 03:16:08 AM »

I just wished they would release this complete performance, even if it was just a handful of songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsjRoDSYDA
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- Lester Bangs on The Beach Boys


PRO SHOT BEACH BOYS CONCERTS - LIST


To sum it up, they blew it, they blew it consistently, they continue to blow it, it is tragic and this pathological problem caused The Beach Boys' greatest music to be so underrated by the general public.

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« Reply #66 on: May 26, 2018, 10:31:37 AM »

I just wished they would release this complete performance, even if it was just a handful of songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJsjRoDSYDA

Completely agree. Love those acoustic versions.

(To everyone now:) So should we make a list of songs we think are listenable from the 2013 live album?
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