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627694 Posts in 25177 Topics by 3581 Members - Latest Member: lonelysea February 23, 2018, 05:58:37 PM
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Poll
Question: Which band's output do you prefer in 1969?
The Beach Boys - 10 (26.3%)
The Beatles - 28 (73.7%)
Total Voters: 38

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Author Topic: 1969: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles  (Read 1840 times)
SMiLE Brian
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« Reply #25 on: February 03, 2018, 05:12:46 PM »

HV IV is a fan's fan here! Cool
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #26 on: February 03, 2018, 05:21:09 PM »

To those that somehow voted 1967/1968/1969 for the BBs, is there any year at all where the Beatles somehow, miraculously eke out a win over the Beach Boys?  Or were the BBs somehow the best band every single year, even when they had legendary failures that had (up to that point) never been seen at such a magnitude in the music industry?  

I don't know, maybe, just maybe, people on a Beach Boys forum actually prefer the Beach Boys music over the Beatles.

It's a shocking and difficult concept to get your head around I know, and goes totally against the accepted narrative of poular culture.

So either peole are lying, or they hear things differently to you.

Utterly stunning conceit.

Not very stunning, not very conceited.  Why even do this if there is zero objectivity?  

This again?
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Any opinions posted by me regarding the music of The Beach Boys, and their members, is in no way a show of disrespect towards any member of The Beach Boys, past or present.

"There is no right nor wrong in art, only preference." - Steve Desper
Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #27 on: February 04, 2018, 01:35:48 AM »

To those that somehow voted 1967/1968/1969 for the BBs, is there any year at all where the Beatles somehow, miraculously eke out a win over the Beach Boys?  Or were the BBs somehow the best band every single year, even when they had legendary failures that had (up to that point) never been seen at such a magnitude in the music industry?  

I don't know, maybe, just maybe, people on a Beach Boys forum actually prefer the Beach Boys music over the Beatles.

It's a shocking and difficult concept to get your head around I know, and goes totally against the accepted narrative of poular culture.

So either peole are lying, or they hear things differently to you.

Utterly stunning conceit.

Not very stunning, not very conceited.  Why even do this if there is zero objectivity?  

This again?

Yes, this again unfortunately. 

It's like me going to a Spice Girls forum, and giving them some sanctimonious little speech about objectivity just because they prefer Spice World to Pet Sounds.

It seems that many, (but not all) Beatles fans confuse cultural value with musical value. That the Beatles have HUGE cultural value is something that can be discussed objectively, because it's pretty indisputable.

Whether or not you value their music though is entirely personal.

If the cultural narrative is that the Beatles were the most musically talented pop / rock band ever, and you buy into that,  then you won't be alone. Mass acceptance of a myth is something we humans are very good at. A myth is all it is though.

If most people accept that myth then it becomes an unquestionable truth to them. They then get very threatened by those who don't believe it and attempt to silence them. Belittling and mocking is a classic tactic of this very human trait.

Some of us are more enlightened though and have no problem accepting that other people experience things differently.







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Kid Presentable
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« Reply #28 on: February 04, 2018, 02:12:38 AM »

Who's getting worked up?  Not I.  There were some answers to my original question that answered it quite well (NOLA BB Fan).  Others reacted to my loaded question with a loaded response.  That is fine too.

Nonetheless.  Let's go to Italy and ask people whether Italian food or French food is better.  Then let's go to Dodger Stadium and see if people like the Dodgers or the Yankees.  Then I plan on going to Novosibirsk, and asking people whether Communism in 1967 was better than the free market- no evidence, just raw, fingertipped emotion captured on a Leonid Brezhnev Presents The KOSyGIN Reform message board.  
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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #29 on: February 04, 2018, 02:39:07 AM »

You really, truly don't get it do you?

On what planet does someones personal tatse require evidence???

I don't like the Beatles. I don't  have to justify it. Fucking deal with it.
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« Reply #30 on: February 04, 2018, 04:22:29 AM »

You really, truly don't get it do you?

On what planet does someones personal tatse require evidence???

I don't like the Beatles. I don't  have to justify it. Fucking deal with it.

Look at that reply.  These threads aren't as simple as "uhhhhh, I like the BBs best."  Because then nearly all of us would say that.  Look where we are!  These threads are rooted in fact and objectivity- you are asked to consider the year and the output and then cast a vote where there is a winner and a loser.  People explain their rationale and that is valued.  Somewhere the threads changed so as to accommodate people who wanted to only post based on personal emotion.  That is fine.  But then when you come across a question, framed for example in this widely accepted timeline:

"1967: what has often been called the best rock and roll album of all time plus 3 successful singles vs botching Smile, botching Lei'd (and Monterey), rushing SS, and rushing WH: who you got?"
*passion post about how the BBs win 1967*

Why is that somehow now unable to be questioned?  I will give it to you that I questioned it via a tonne of sarcasm, but it wasn't directed at anybody personally and you shouldn't have to wear XL-sized kid gloves every time you question staunch partisan viewpoints in this forum anyways.  Awaiting more inappropriate, expletived responses from you.
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« Reply #31 on: February 04, 2018, 04:58:56 AM »

Quote
If someone prefers more "pop" than "rock" then they might lean more towards the Beach Boys.
Wrong. Beatles made pop songs too. Ditto BBs made rock songs. Besides, when I lean towards band/ singer, it's got zero to do with if this band/ singer rocks or pops. Usually it's reasons' combination.

But, of course, BBs is vocal band. It's fact that BBs beat Beatles/ everybody else in vocal dept. As HeyJude agreed before, they're 2nd to none. Beatles isn't vocal band.
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Short notice: the cat you see to the left is the best. Not counting your indoor cat who might have habit sitting at your left side when you post in SmileySmile.

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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #32 on: February 04, 2018, 05:05:53 AM »

Kid Presentable.  Sorry if the bad word upset you. My frustration got the better of me.

You genuinely seem to have a problem accepting the fact that people didn't vote the way you wanted. A few people have commented on this now.

I gave my reason for voting Smiley Smile over Sgt Pepper.  Go back and check the thread.  I also gave my reason in voting Friends over The Beatles.

Smiley Smile is my favourite Beach Boys album. Sorry I can't give you empirical evidence or proof.  I tend to listen past production to the actual songs and arrangement.  Form / structure wise, the songs on SS are far superior to anything on Peppers. The vocal arrangements also are way beyond anything the Beatles put down that year, or ever. Heroes and Villians is a fucking masterpiece, there's that word again.  And, the sublime Wind Chimes, my god, best thing ever put down on tape by anyone. Ever.

All my subjective opinion of course.

It is also my opinion that, though there are a few semi intersting tracks on Pepper, the majority of it is awful. Good Morning is a cluttered, cacophonous mess, Within You Without You is about 5 minutes too long. McCartneys offerings are forgetable as usual, and apart from Lucy and Mr Kite, Lennon is just phoning it in. Best album ever?  Pile of boring,  overrated shite more like.

On to Friends, which is a far more cohesive album than The Beatles. Structure wise some extremely mature compositions here from Wilson. I had no problem voting the album that contained Wake the World, Busy Doing Nothing and When a Man Loves a Women over one that contains the amount of lazy filler that The Beatles does. Goodness,. I'd have been insulted playing that back in the day. Almost as conceited as your posts. That was when they realised their fans would buy anything. Its one redeeming feature is it has Julia on it, which is great. McCartneys stuff is shite as usual.

Now accept my opinion and stop trying to censor people.  Your inabilty to comprehend that others  think differently to you makes you at best a moron, at worst a psychopath.

Your posts all boil down to one simple sentiment

'B-b-b-b-but its the Beatles !!!'

Beatles fans - the religious nut jobs of the music fandom world.  LOL
« Last Edit: February 04, 2018, 05:07:53 AM by Hickory Violet Part IV » Logged
Watamushi(Polly Poller)
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« Reply #33 on: February 04, 2018, 05:29:58 AM »

Hey guys, I said "make sure you go only by your preference" in the initial post. You don't have to consider historical importance/sales or anything.

And you see that doesn't mean BB wins every year. Beatles has already won several times.

So it's okay if you voted for BB's or Beatles in any year's poll. That's your opinion and that must be respected.

Don't go bushing each other about each other's preference/opinion.
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« Reply #34 on: February 04, 2018, 06:35:06 AM »

There is no "way I wanted", nor have I been "trying to censor people".  I am not even anything more than a casual Beatles fan, in contrast to my Beach Boys affinity.  And either a moron or a psychopath, or a pig, idiot, liar, or communist. 

You actually gave no reason for voting Smiley Smile over Sgt Peppers until now.  You just said something about Smiley Smile being musical perfection and the greatest album ever made- so wait, that wasn't sarcasm?  I just want to be sure because I thought you were making fun of Smiley Smile the whole time.
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Hickory Violet Part IV
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« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2018, 11:02:29 AM »

No sarcasm intended, though I often am sarcastic. Perhaps we misunderstood each other. Easily done.

Sorry for the name calling. I didn't mean it.
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« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2018, 11:35:22 AM »

Hey guys, I said "make sure you go only by your preference" in the initial post. You don't have to consider historical importance/sales or anything.

And you see that doesn't mean BB wins every year. Beatles has already won several times.

So it's okay if you voted for BB's or Beatles in any year's poll. That's your opinion and that must be respected.

Don't go bushing each other about each other's preference/opinion.

Thanks, Watsmushi. 

Keep up the good work
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Any opinions posted by me regarding the music of The Beach Boys, and their members, is in no way a show of disrespect towards any member of The Beach Boys, past or present.

"There is no right nor wrong in art, only preference." - Steve Desper
Ram4
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« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2018, 02:33:16 PM »

Beatles for me.
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« Reply #38 on: February 05, 2018, 12:07:08 AM »

Hey guys, I said "make sure you go only by your preference" in the initial post. You don't have to consider historical importance/sales or anything.

And you see that doesn't mean BB wins every year. Beatles has already won several times.

So it's okay if you voted for BB's or Beatles in any year's poll. That's your opinion and that must be respected.

Don't go bushing each other about each other's preference/opinion.

Thanks, Watsmushi. 

Keep up the good work
My pleasure.
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'There's room for understanding' -niko
Joel Goldenberg
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« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2018, 06:57:45 AM »

I choose Beach Boys because IMO Break Away and Time To Get Alone smoke anything else that year. They would smoke even more if the alternates of those two songs were released instead.
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« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2018, 08:54:11 PM »

I choose Beach Boys because IMO Break Away and Time To Get Alone smoke anything else that year. They would smoke even more if the alternates of those two songs were released instead.

I always forget just how brilliant of a song ‘Time To Get Alone’ is - the melody, instrumental, those experimental effects with reverb and the beautiful strings. I think I’d have a totally different opinion of 20/20 if all the songs were of this calibre (both in songwriting and in recording).
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« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2018, 09:14:22 PM »

I choose Beach Boys because IMO Break Away and Time To Get Alone smoke anything else that year. They would smoke even more if the alternates of those two songs were released instead.

I always forget just how brilliant of a song ‘Time To Get Alone’ is - the melody, instrumental, those experimental effects with reverb and the beautiful strings. I think I’d have a totally different opinion of 20/20 if all the songs were of this calibre (both in songwriting and in recording).

Consider if TTGA had come out in 1967. So we're saying Brian was ahead of the game by 2 years if a song cut back in '67, before the kibosh was put on all of that activity by those who will remain unnamed, smoked everything else in '69. I remember some arguing whether that material would have done anything if it came out in '67 or early '68, yet I'm reading and agreeing with the notion that it effectively smokes a lot from when it did come out.

And likewise for fans who actually bought and heard 20/20 in 1969, how "Cabinessence" stuck out and sounded so advanced, so progressive and so innovative musically, then consider the bulk of that was done and in the can by late '66.

Just something to think about.  Smiley
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“Some people think you have to knock somebody down in order to build yourself up, I don’t look at it that way. To the mentality that likes to disparage other people, I say perhaps you should get a life. It’s just wrong thinking in my opinion and I don’t mind saying that.” - Mike Love

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« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2018, 05:32:46 AM »

I choose Beach Boys because IMO Break Away and Time To Get Alone smoke anything else that year. They would smoke even more if the alternates of those two songs were released instead.

I always forget just how brilliant of a song ‘Time To Get Alone’ is - the melody, instrumental, those experimental effects with reverb and the beautiful strings. I think I’d have a totally different opinion of 20/20 if all the songs were of this calibre (both in songwriting and in recording).

Consider if TTGA had come out in 1967. So we're saying Brian was ahead of the game by 2 years if a song cut back in '67, before the kibosh was put on all of that activity by those who will remain unnamed, smoked everything else in '69. I remember some arguing whether that material would have done anything if it came out in '67 or early '68, yet I'm reading and agreeing with the notion that it effectively smokes a lot from when it did come out.

And likewise for fans who actually bought and heard 20/20 in 1969, how "Cabinessence" stuck out and sounded so advanced, so progressive and so innovative musically, then consider the bulk of that was done and in the can by late '66.

Just something to think about.  Smiley

Last night, after writing my above post, I listened to the backing track for TTGA and imo it’s one of the most interesting backing tracks they ever did. From Wikipedia (Priore’s 2nd Smile book):

That’s the only time I really got involved, musically. If you listen to the track, what’s going on is, every time you hit a bop, bop, bop, bop, it’s a different type of keyboard. It’s piano, harpsichord, upright grand, organ. So it has this lopey sound, but I don’t think it was a comfortable sound. And then there’s something that sounds like this big, distorted, smooth guitar sound, and it’s just a little piano played through a blown speaker that I had at my house.

Then I remember Brian calling in the string section. [Brian's sister-in-law] Diane Rovell called them in at the last minute, and some of them still had their tuxedos on. Brian was thoroughly in control of those guys. He said, “I’m gonna make you guys feel better. I think some of you guys might have colds.” Then he had everybody open their mouths and Diane or Marilyn [Wilson] sprayed some kind of a cough medicine. I looked at these guys and I thought, “The power! I could never have the power to do that.” And then he was sitting there, talking to me, while they were doing a take, and he stops and says, “Hold it, Danny. Hey, viola! The second chair … you’re flat on that C.’ He not only heard a bad note; he knew which guy did it. Amazing sense.’
” -Danny Hutton

I have this false impression that Brian stopped doing big production/experimental stuff completely after the collapse of SMiLE but this song is 100% proof he kept right on at it. Makes you wonder, if he had his way with Redwood just where he would have taken his songwriting.
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« Reply #43 on: February 07, 2018, 02:07:02 AM »

The result:
The Beach Boys - 10 votes
The Beatles  - 28 votes

The winner is The Beatles.
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'Mostly I'm just pleasantly depressed.' -Brian Wilson

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