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Poll
Question: Which do you think did better in 1964?
The Beach Boys
The Beatles

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Author Topic: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles  (Read 3688 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #75 on: January 11, 2018, 10:27:51 AM »

It's a bit silly to take the widely agreed-upon most celebrated, introspective set of lyrics from the early BB catalog and put it up against a barn-burner rocker opener song on the Beatles' *debut* album. The Beach Boys also released lyrics like these:

Ten little Indian boys

The first little Indian gave squaw pretty feather
(Little Indian boy)
The second little Indian made her an Indian dollar
(Fighting over a squaw)
Well the third little Indian gave her moccasin leather
(Little Indian boy)
The squaw didn't like 'em at all
The fourth little Indian took her riding in his big canoe
(Little Indian boy)
The fifth little Indian took her down the waterfall
(Fighting over a squaw)
The sixth little Indian taught the squaw how to woo-woo
(Little Indian boy)
But the squaw didn't like them at all

One little, two little, three little Indians
(Keep us humming we're the ten little Indians)
Four little, five little, six little Indians
(Keep us humming we're the ten little Indians)
Seven little, eight little, nine little Indians
(Keep us humming we're the ten little Indians)
Ten little Indian boys

The seventh little Indian took her over to his teepee
(Little Indian boy)
The eighth little Indian tried to give her a love poem
(Fighting over a squaw)
The ninth little Indian said "You're my Kemosabe"
(Little Indian boy)
The squaw didn't like them at all
The tenth little Indian said it really didn't matter
(Little Indian boy)
He acted like himself and he didn't look at her
(Fighting over a squaw)
The squaw didn't care if he never did a thing
(Little Indian boy)
Because she loved the tenth Indian boy

Loved the tenth Indian boy[x3]

AND

Lana Lana oh Lana dear
 Please come along with me

 We'll go (Lana dear) we'll go (Lana dear)
 So far away (Lana dear) (Lana dear)
 So happy (Lana dear) we will be (Lana dear)

 I'll show (come with me) I'll show (come with me)
 You another world (come with me) (come with me)
 Alone (come with me) with silver (come with me) and gold (Lana dear)

 (Oooooooooooo)
 (Oooooooooooo-ooooo)

 Don't dear (Lana dear) please don't (Lana dear)
 Don't be afraid (Lana dear) (Lana dear)
 It's heaven (Lana dear) I've been told (Lana dear) (Lana dear)

 Lana (come with me) Lana (come with me) Oh Lana dear (come with me)
 Please (come with me) come along (come with me) with me (Lana dear)

 Lana (Lana dear) Lana (Lana dear) oh Lana dear (Lana dear) (Lana dear)
 Please (Lana dear) come along (Lana dear) with me (Lana dear)

Not to mention, the first BB album of 1963 is packed with FIVE instrumentals. They were treading a bit lightly in the lyrical department in that era.


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« Reply #76 on: January 11, 2018, 10:37:17 AM »

Agreed.  It is a bit silly to compare a road apple to a juicy edible apple...and even sillier to effin' vote for it.  I've come to my senses.  Off you go young Jude.  Your opinion with stay yours.  Votes, on the other hand, are really all that COUNT in this thread.  Cool Guy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh...and by the way...was Lana written in 1962?  Why yes...I believe it was.  And so too was the 10 wee First Nations fellas ditty/reconstituted nursery-rhymey thingy...So?...As this is the thread regarding songs which made an impact in 1964...Off ya go!!!! Wink

And while we're at it...I'm sure you realize that MUCH of 'The Beach Boys Today was not only composed but also recorded in 1964...although it didn't make noise in the light of day 'til 1965.  But then we're getting head of ourselves...not to the 70s like we did with Happy Xmas [War is Over] and what's-it?  Simply having a Vunderbar Xmas Time...as opposed to the more topical Little St. Nick which was initially released in December of '63 and then made its official album debut in what?  Why 1964.  [you know...the year in question]..And if you would suppose to think that ANYONE here thinks that I Saw Her Loitering There is the 'Fabbies' only dinky lyrics song from THAT era...well let me send all my lovin' to you. LOL
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« Reply #77 on: January 11, 2018, 11:02:16 AM »

Agreed.  It is a bit silly to compare a road apple to a juicy edible apple...and even sillier to effin' vote for it.  I've come to my senses.  Off you go young Jude.  Your opinion with stay yours.  Votes, on the other hand, are really all that COUNT in this thread.  Cool Guy
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh...and by the way...was Lana written in 1962?  Why yes...I believe it was.  And so too was the 10 wee First Nations fellas ditty ...So?...As this is the thread regarding songs which made an impact in 1964...Off ya go!!!!

Well, I'm glad you changed your vote. Your supposed to vote for who you prefer. It's stated clearly in the original post. You could have at least cherry-picked a 1964 Beatles lyric, though. The original post also outlines which songs we are voting on.
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« Reply #78 on: January 11, 2018, 11:10:35 AM »

Rules are for good guys.  Good guys never win.  I'm to do what I'm supposed to do?  Book yourself a room with a bed and bring a few changes of clothing.  We'll be here awhile.  1964 is 1964.  What actually, really happened in 1964, in real time, will dictate my path...not 'rules'.  Besides in order for there to EVER be a rule...there must, therefore, also be the accompanying 'exception to the rule'...which as always...was made to be broken.  Evil  [just like Beatles' records after Johnny's Heyzuss 'remark'.]  But now I'm getting 2 years ahead of 1964.  B.E. buddy...If I vote for who I prefer...it's gonna be the BEACH BOYS every year.  But I also have a sense for the reality of it all...and I can appreciate a better effort.  Like although it isn't even ***my*** favourite Beatles album I believe the Fab 3's wave goodbye to Paul and their welcoming of Faul...namely Sergent Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band...was the l.p. of 1967 and although I prefer the BEACH BOYS for Heroes and Villains...a coupla Smelly Smell tunes, and also for the Wild Honey album 'cause it 'spoke to my soul'...my common sense dictates that I MUST go with the Hair Crew in '67.  Their quantum leap outdistanced the SMiLE single.  If SMiLE had been released....?...?...?  BEACH BOYS by a country mile.  It has longevity.  Sgt. Peppers is a 'time capsule'.
-----------------------------

In 1964...Brian was tinkering with full orchestras...John found that if he put his guitar too close to an amp...it fed back.  And 'he' get's big cred for it.  Doi-oip dee doip.  Doi-oip dee doip.  We're not kids anymore.  Brian was years ahead of the 'mopulettes' in 1964.  [and remember I do like...and liked...the Beatles too.]
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:34:14 AM by Add Some » Logged

"Add Some...Music...To Your Day.  I do.  It's the only way to fly.  Well...what was I gonna put here?  An apple a day keeps the doctor away?  Hum me a few bars."   Lee Marshall [2014]

Donald  TRUMP!  ...  Is TOAST.  "What a disaster."  "Overrated?"... ... ..."BIG LEAGUE."  "Lots of people are saying it"  "I will tell you that."   Collusion, Money Laundering, Treason.   B'Bye Dirty Donnie!!!  Adios!!!  Bon Voyage!!!  Toodles!!!  Move yourself...SPANKY!!!
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« Reply #79 on: January 11, 2018, 03:44:23 PM »

Both bands were really hitting on all cylinders from 1964-1966.  
This. Those 3 years it's basically a tie. I won't even vote!

EDIT: After further contemplation I decided to vote for the Beatles, by a hair.
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« Reply #80 on: January 11, 2018, 11:24:06 PM »

1964 belonged to the Beatles. If you lived in the US, you got Meet the Beatles, Introducing the Beatles, The Beatles' Second (but in reality, their third) Album, Something New, A Hard Days Night, Beatles '65. One great album after another, filled with mostly great, energetic rock and roll. The Beach Boys were just getting better and better in 64 - I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun...but 1964 was the Beatles year.
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« Reply #81 on: January 12, 2018, 02:29:22 AM »

Yes, the US had to play "catch up" with the Beatles catalog so we were bombarded with them that year. I remember all the albums my sisters got, not only from Capitol but also from the Veejay label, also singles such as My Bonnie.
Every single put out by them charted, regardless of quality. (Love Me Do, with the immortal lyrics "Love, love me do, I know I love you, I'll always love you, so please, love me do" -reached #1 in the US for crying out loud).

I'm a big Beatles fan and they had some great songs in 1964. Even more in 1965.
Anyway, this poll is supposed to be about personal preference and not commercial success of one group or another. It looks like people here prefer the pure rock and roll to a more pop sound.  That's cool.
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« Reply #82 on: January 12, 2018, 09:26:50 AM »

Has everyone here listened to the lyrics on *all* the songs on the early BB albums? What's the deal with picking at "Love Me Do" (LITERALLY the Beatles' first single released in *1962*) and "I Saw Her Standing There?" As if this being a *Beach Boys* board wasn't already skewing a "personal preference" debate between the two bands enough, now we're cherry picking lyrics to throw up against each other. "Strawberry Fields Forever" had better lyrics than "Surfin' Safari." And?

Mike Love wrote some great lyrics. But he (and the other guys) also wrote some stuff *as* if not more inane than the worst the Beatles ever wrote. Some of the best lyrics put to record for the BBs were written by outside writers.

I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.
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« Reply #83 on: January 12, 2018, 09:58:19 AM »



I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


But, if people aren't being 100% objective and not going by personal preference, then what's the point?   If that were the case, 100% of the votes for each year would go to The Beatles. 

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« Reply #84 on: January 12, 2018, 09:58:51 AM »

The Beach Boys never had a singular moment like The Beatles appearing for the first time on Ed Sullivan. That was a cultural event, a landmark moment in history where a majority of America was tuned in to a TV show on a winter Sunday night in 1964 to see a *rock band*, and it became one of those shared experiences where people who witnessed it remember it vividly, and share that memory with something like 70 million others who were watching CBS that same night. Considering the number of TV sets in US homes at that time, the numbers and share of audience stats are actually staggering...and they tuned in to see a rock and roll band play music. That's all it was, really.

Go through the archives of American musicians who became successful in their own right who were watching that show as kids or as teens in 1964, and many will cite that moment as the point when they saw these guys in their early 20's playing rock and roll in a band and said "hey, I want to do this and I can do this", and proceeded to become musicians and write songs and form bands. It changed music, and that isn't hype or hyperbole. Understand too that this was an experience that fans outside the US who did not see what happened in Feb 1964 would not share and might not put into the same historical context.

But when a rock band appearing on a variety show on a Sunday night in Feb 1964 becomes a cultural landmark in pop culture, a shared experience that influenced and shaped musicians and music for the next few decades, it cannot be dismissed, and it cannot be topped because things like that just didn't happen as a singular event and it's rare to find anything that compares to it since 1964 where a rock band garnered that much of an audience who tuned in at the same time to the same event...based essentially on guitar-based rock and roll music played by four young musicians with no formal training and long hair. It changed things.

The BB's never had such a moment.
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« Reply #85 on: January 12, 2018, 10:05:24 AM »



I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


But, if people aren't being 100% objective and not going by personal preference, then what's the point?   If that were the case, 100% of the votes for each year would go to The Beatles. 



*I* think that's true. Objectively, every year *should* go to the Beatles. Clearly others disagree, sometimes (not always, but sometimes) without enough knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the Beatles catalog (and for all I know maybe even the BB's) to say one way or the other. But personal preference simply mixed with a bit of pulling back and a little objectivity would at least yield somewhat more interesting results and discussions, in my opinion.

In other words, a 100% "personal preference" discussion, in my 23+ years on the internet, will yield less interesting discussions (e.g. "I like *that* more than *that*. The end), and will certainly yield a very predictable "poll result" when the sampling size is small and made up of fans on a *Beach Boys* message board.

Whereas, trying to bring some objectivity will often bring in a need to be more specific and cite the music, lyrics, styles, the context, etc.
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« Reply #86 on: January 12, 2018, 10:11:17 AM »



I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


But, if people aren't being 100% objective and not going by personal preference, then what's the point?   If that were the case, 100% of the votes for each year would go to The Beatles. 



*I* think that's true. Objectively, every year *should* go to the Beatles. Clearly others disagree, sometimes (not always, but sometimes) without enough knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the Beatles catalog (and for all I know maybe even the BB's) to say one way or the other. But personal preference simply mixed with a bit of pulling back and a little objectivity would at least yield somewhat more interesting results and discussions, in my opinion.

In other words, a 100% "personal preference" discussion, in my 23+ years on the internet, will yield less interesting discussions (e.g. "I like *that* more than *that*. The end), and will certainly yield a very predictable "poll result" when the sampling size is small and made up of fans on a *Beach Boys* message board.

Whereas, trying to bring some objectivity will often bring in a need to be more specific and cite the music, lyrics, styles, the context, etc.


I get that, but sometimes this type of poll can be interesting to hear fans' personal experience of why they prefer Band A to Band B.   
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« Reply #87 on: January 12, 2018, 10:26:23 AM »

I brought up Love Me Do since Ten Little Indians was brought up in this thread. They were both released in their respective countries around the same time in the latter part of 1962. Think we can all agree that both groups improved their lyrics greatly over the next two years.

Who's more innovative in 1964? What's cooler- the feedback opening to I Feel Fine, or the intro to Wendy? (When younger I felt one way, now I feel differently) I think the Beach Boys were already doing things other rock/pop groups hadn't done. The Beatles would quickly catch up and, shall I say, surpass them?
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« Reply #88 on: January 12, 2018, 11:49:48 AM »

I brought up Love Me Do since Ten Little Indians was brought up in this thread. They were both released in their respective countries around the same time in the latter part of 1962. Think we can all agree that both groups improved their lyrics greatly over the next two years.

Who's more innovative in 1964? What's cooler- the feedback opening to I Feel Fine, or the intro to Wendy? (When younger I felt one way, now I feel differently) I think the Beach Boys were already doing things other rock/pop groups hadn't done. The Beatles would quickly catch up and, shall I say, surpass them?

I dunno, what's "cooler" is pretty darn subjective. I'd say the feedback intro to "I Feel Fine" was much more unique (revolutionary, whatever word we want to use for "rarely or never done before") and ear-catching than the four-plunked-notes intro to "Wendy."

I don't think the Beatles ever needed to catch up to the BBs. It was almost always the other way around "Girl Don't Tell Me" (which I LOVE) is an almost Rutles-level knock-off of "Ticket to Ride." The Beatles *never* did anything like that with BB material, with I guess the arguable exception of "Back in the USSR", which was recorded at a stage where the "race" as such was over between the two bands unfortunately. It was the *BBs* recording *multiple* Beatles covers for the "Party" album. By the end of '65, the Beatles had given up recording cover versions *at all*, and certainly never covered the BBs.

Brian (and the other BBs) almost undoubtedly listened to *everything* the Beatles put out. I doubt the Beatles did the same with the BBs. McCartney maybe, and even then I doubt he was spinning every single and album Brian made.

I'd say there was a *very brief* moment when Brian was working on "Surf's Up" that he may have, if you slow the tape down and look at the replay so to speak, passed the Beatles. Which is a HUGE deal.

There's no question that the Beatles and more specifically McCartney regarded Brian Wilson as one of their *very few* peers in the business. But they weren't chasing the BBs. McCartney was digging on PS, no question. But they weren't "chasing" Brian. They weren't, as some ridiculous conspiracy theories have suggested, listened to purloined "Smile" tapes provided by Derek Taylor, etc.
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« Reply #89 on: January 12, 2018, 12:35:17 PM »

Great post Hey Jude.  I'll add to that by saying I am sure neither Lennon or McCartney pulled to the side of the road when they heard Good Vibrations and declared the race over.  Sure they were impressed with Pet Sounds and GV big time (even Lennon said he loved The Little Girl I Once Knew), but that just stoked their creative fires even more and since their songwriting was somewhat of a friendly rivalry, they were used to stepping it up as a challenge.  When Strawberry Fields Forever or A Day In The Life were first heard by Brian, it seemed like he felt competing at that level was a non-winnable situation (but of course he still could if he wanted to).

At the end of the day it was Brian Wilson vs Lennon/McCartney (as he really didn't have a full blown equal songwriting partner) AND George Martin (as he was the producer and arranger).  That's a lot of pressure to put on someone, let alone someone as fragile as Brian.  He still did a hell of a job delivering the goods.
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« Reply #90 on: January 12, 2018, 12:55:24 PM »

Brian did indeed take on a huge burden. However, I'm not a fan of the contention that it was Brian alone versus Lennon, McCartney, and Martin. This tends to slightly overemphasize Martin's role (he was absolutely important, no question, but especially as the years wore on he took direction *from* the band more than gave it; he was a facilitator while in later years McCartney was arguably the band's producer), and downplays the help Brian did have.

Namely, a stream of co-writers (Mike Love, Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks), and oodles of session musicians in the key 66-67 timeframe.

*And*, while the 65/66 tour schedule the Beatles undertook was not insane, Lennon and McCartney did go out on the road while also writing Rubber Soul, Revolver, etc. Look at that Beatles "Day by Day" book by Lewisohn. I'd wager especially through late 1966, Lennon and McCartney had fewer days "off" than Brian Wilson did.

As a sidenote, interestingly I've heard that McCartney is on record *not* being a huge fan of "Good Vibrations."
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« Reply #91 on: January 12, 2018, 03:38:14 PM »

Strawberry Fields? Good Vibrations? Getting a little ahead, yes?

In 1964 the Beatles certainly didn't look over their shoulders at the Beach Boys. They might not even been aware of them - Don't know when they started to be popular in the UK. The Beach Boys had no choice but to look over their shoulders, as Capitol was all but kicking them to the curb. I'm sure Murry gave them one of his "You need to fight for success" speeches.

On a long drive home today, was listening to the Beatles channel. All weekend will feature Billy Joel spinning the US versions of the albums. I enjoyed myself singing along to Meet the Beatles and the Beatles Second Album (through She Loves You)
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« Reply #92 on: January 12, 2018, 09:48:11 PM »

Strawberry Fields? Good Vibrations? Getting a little ahead, yes?

In 1964 the Beatles certainly didn't look over their shoulders at the Beach Boys. They might not even been aware of them - Don't know when they started to be popular in the UK. The Beach Boys had no choice but to look over their shoulders, as Capitol was all but kicking them to the curb. I'm sure Murry gave them one of his "You need to fight for success" speeches.

On a long drive home today, was listening to the Beatles channel. All weekend will feature Billy Joel spinning the US versions of the albums. I enjoyed myself singing along to Meet the Beatles and the Beatles Second Album (through She Loves You)
It will always be the US albums for me. Grew up with them, those songs in that order are ingrained in my brain. Anything else feels like a nice comp.
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« Reply #93 on: January 13, 2018, 12:04:57 AM »

Result:

The Beach Boys 11 votes

The Beatles 23 votes

The winner of 1964 is The Beatles.
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