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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Watamushi(Polly Poller) on January 10, 2018, 12:03:36 AM



Title: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Watamushi(Polly Poller) on January 10, 2018, 12:03:36 AM
Here's the next battle of the stuff released in 1964:

three albums (Shut Down Vol. II, All Summer Long and The Beach Boys' Christmas Album) and (then) non-album singles (When I Grow Up/She Knows Me Too Well, Dance Dance Dance)

vs. two albums (A Hard Day's Night and Beatles For Sale) a non-album single (I Feel Fine/She's a Woman) and an EP (Long Tall Sally, I Call Your Name, Slow Down and Matchbox)


Now, which do you think did better in this year? Please use to poll above to vote.

In voting, make sure you go only by your personal preference (not the historical significance or commercial success) and only consider the released tracks above.

Look forward to seeing how the result comes out.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 05:12:49 AM
Both bands were really hitting on all cylinders from 1964-1966.   But, I'm going Beatles again by a hair. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on January 10, 2018, 05:40:33 AM
AHDN is one of my favorite Beatles albums.
But the songs the BBs cranked out that year - The Warmth of The Sun, When I Grow Up, Don't Worry Baby, She Knows Me Too Well, All Summer Long, plus their other hits, make this an easy decision for me.

BEACH BOYS.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 06:11:18 AM
Once again, the Beach Boys' highs are on par with the Beatles, but in terms of front-to-back consistency there's no contest.

The Beatles didn't have anything approaching filler along the lines of "Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson", "Shut Down Part II", "Louie Louie", "Denny's Drums", "Carl's Big Chance", "Our Favorite Recording Sessions", etc.

I adore even most of the BB's filler, and there's also a second tier of BB stuff from these albums that aren't filler but that I'd say objectively are somewhat slight that I still love, like "This Car of Mine", "Pom Pom Playgirl", "Do You Remember?", etc.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 06:44:55 AM
Once again, the Beach Boys' highs are on par with the Beatles, but in terms of front-to-back consistency there's no contest.

The Beatles didn't have anything approaching filler along the lines of "Cassius Love vs. Sonny Wilson", "Shut Down Part II", "Louie Louie", "Denny's Drums", "Carl's Big Chance", "Our Favorite Recording Sessions", etc.

I adore even most of the BB's filler, and there's also a second tier of BB stuff from these albums that aren't filler but that I'd say objectively are somewhat slight that I still love, like "This Car of Mine", "Pom Pom Playgirl", "Do You Remember?", etc.

That's pretty much my reasoning.  There was a Beatles v Beach Boys poll on the PSF, and I cast my vote for The Beatles every year except 1966 (I rate Pet Sounds a little higher than Revolver). 

Frankly, I think it's unfair to compare almost any catalog to that of The Beatles. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Emdeeh on January 10, 2018, 07:36:10 AM
The Beatles sold more records and got more airplay in 1964, but the Beach Boys dominated my turntable that year.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 10, 2018, 08:14:31 AM
Yes...the Beach Boys Shut Down 2 contained  W A Y  too much filler...thus rendering the album almost 2nd class...but there were still 7 really good tunes on it...5 of 'em excellent.  All Summer Long contained 4 excellent songs and a couple more good ones.  The Xmas thing seemed elderly in terms of production by comparison...and its best song was released in December 1963...but that said... ... ...

The Beatles Hard Days Night l.p...included 8 GREAT songs...and in real time...the N. American release/version only contained 6 great songs as it was loaded down with instrumental filler....For Sale has about 5 great songs and some other pretty good ones. I Feel Fine/She's a Woman was a double sided SMASH.  The E.P.?  That was a local thing not generally part of the equation in North America.  So...  Adding things up...The Beatles realistically squeak out a win in 1964.  [although personally...I preferred the Beach Boys.]

Right now...off the top of my head...It's a toss-up for 1965...The Beach Boys OWN 1966.  The Beatles pound the living daylights out of EVERYBODY in 1967.  And the Fab 4 wins out in '68, '69 and then in 1970?...I'll take Sunflower over Let It Be 7 days a week...365 [and a quarter] days of the year.  After that?  The Beach Boys win every year BY DEFAULT.  Summer in Pair of Dice beats NO release if only JUST BARELY.

You can factor in my subsequent votes accordingly.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 08:18:49 AM
Welllll...glad I don't make fuss about consistency. Filler-not filler, BBs win this year, again going by math which is the easiest way to determine who wins. Surprised nobody used it, ha.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 10, 2018, 08:21:32 AM
I thought I did use math.  13 excellent songs to 12.  A squeaker win by the 'mop tops'.  ;D


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 08:32:48 AM
I see it now. :) I may post when you posted at the time. [08-sth.]


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on January 10, 2018, 08:57:31 AM
Just my opinion!
It's not just the math. Yes, the Beatles had a number of great songs in 1964. But for me, the Beach Boys had more songs that touched my soul, affected me emotionally. Can't think of any 1964 Beatles songs that affected me in that way.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 09:22:29 AM
Welllll...glad I don't make fuss about consistency. Filler-not filler, BBs win this year, again going by math which is the easiest way to determine who wins. Surprised nobody used it, ha.

Consistency means *more* good songs. How is that not math?

That's setting aside that saying which band one likes more than the other actually has zero to do with math. I don't think anyone wants to start using objective measurements like true math (e.g. sales, chart position), because then it's *really* no contest.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 09:26:41 AM
Let it be known that, as far as I know, Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys were not sitting around in 1964 saying "Well, the Beatles are selling more than us, but that doesn't have anything to do with how good their music is."

While I'm sure they would have loved to outsell the Beatles, Brian and the rest of the guys knew from the get-go that the Beatles were making amazing music.

I'd be willing to wager that most of the guys in the BBs, back then or now, would have handed most of the years in the 60s to the Beatles in a head-to-head.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 09:28:55 AM
Let it be known that, as far as I know, Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys were not sitting around in 1964 saying "Well, the Beatles are selling more than us, but that doesn't have anything to do with how good their music is."

While I'm sure they would have loved to outsell the Beatles, Brian and the rest of the guys knew from the get-go that the Beatles were making amazing music.

I'd be willing to wager that most of the guys in the BBs, back then or now, would have handed most of the years in the 60s to the Beatles in a head-to-head.

I think you're right, and I think there was a mutual respect between the two groups. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 09:34:24 AM
That's setting aside that saying which band one likes more than the other actually has zero to do with math. I don't think anyone wants to start using objective measurements like true math (e.g. sales, chart position), because then it's *really* no contest.
By math I meant number of favorite BBs songs vs. number of favorite Beatles songs (in this case, 1963 songs). Which ultimately shows precisely who's your favorite band. I don't care about sales, charts, this thread isn't anything to do with objectivity.

As to "consistency", I didn't look at it as "more good songs". To me, the way I'd seen it, it's songs that flow well together making nice stabile listening, nothing stands out as too different, it's like single long song. Does it make any visible sense? Maybe it doesn't. But since you explained the real definition, I'll thank you instead.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beat
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 09:35:20 AM
Just my opinion!
It's not just the math. Yes, the Beatles had a number of great songs in 1964. But for me, the Beach Boys had more songs that touched my soul, affected me emotionally. Can't think of any 1964 Beatles songs that affected me in that way.

That’s what I’m going by. This was a killer year for The Beach Boys...Brian is going all out with experimenting on tracks: their first number 1 hit uses sections of pure a cappella, a harpsichord, and some of their finest harmonies yet.

‘Fun, Fun, Fun’ kicks off with a chuck berry inspired riff, Brian wails that falsetto at the end, Mike and Brian both create a timeless anthem of American spirit.

‘Don’t Worry Baby’ is one of Brian’s most heartfelt tunes; so simplistic in its message, yet those voices amplify this message to heavenly proportions. Show me one Beatles song that came even close to how angelic The Beach Boys sound on this track. Not even ‘Hear There and Everywhere’ comes close.

‘Little Saint Nick’ became one of the most listened to holiday tunes to this very day.

‘All Summer Long’ became the send out song to one of America’s most iconic nostalgia movies (American Graffiti).

‘Keep An Eye On Summer’ written days after the assassination of JFK, is dark sounding yet one of their most beautiful tunes.

‘Dance Dance Dance’ and ‘She Knows Me Too Well’ are a sign of things to come in 1965. Brian amps up the wall of sound with the former but continues the angelic sounds of DWB with the latter.

Mostly, it just comes down to how much The Beach Boys music moves me over The Beatles. No question the Beatles had more hits and great songs, but most of those hits don’t take me to the places, emotionally/spiritually that The Beach Boys hits/songs do.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 09:39:47 AM
I enjoy examining this stuff year by year, and I know we're going for more subjective analysis than clinical objectivity. But at the same time, I think you have to pull back and add a little objectivity to the mix, something a bit beyond what *you* personally like. Otherwise, what's the point of asking a *BEACH BOYS* message board which band they like more?

There's a point at which saying every year that "the Beach Boys spoke to my soul and the Beatles didn't" is going to get a bit redundant.

I also think, by getting a bit more into the nuts and bolts and adding a bit more specificity, it will help make apparent that those comparing these two bands are actually truly *familiar* with both catalogs in toto.

I'll be honest, there is an occasional comment here and there in BB fan communities comparing the two bands where it smells like someone isn't actually super familiar with the entire Beatles catalog. Not on this board, but I have run into the occasional obsessive BB fan who owns 27 pressings of "Problem Child" who has never listened to "Abbey Road."


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 09:47:00 AM


I'll be honest, there is an occasional comment here and there in BB fan communities comparing the two bands where it smells like someone isn't actually super familiar with the entire Beatles catalog. Not on this board, but I have run into the occasional obsessive BB fan who owns 27 pressings of "Problem Child" who has never listened to "Abbey Road."

I've noticed across the boards I've been one to that there's a small group of BB fans who seem to have a bit of a chip on their shoulder about The Beatles because the Beatles are generally more popular / respected.   I've read comments (paraphrasing here) like The Beatles are a merely competent band hiding behind a great producer, just a beat group, style over substance, etc etc. 

In that light, fans saying that songs by The Beach Boys speak to them more than Beatles songs seems much more logical to me because they cite personal preference while still acknowledging the greatest of the Fab Four. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 09:49:37 AM
Otherwise, what's the point of asking a *BEACH BOYS* message board which band they like more?

There's a point at which saying every year that "the Beach Boys spoke to my soul and the Beatles didn't" is going to get a bit redundant.
You didn't see that people in BBs message boards genuinely like Beatles & choose them to BBs?

If people say the phrase in quotes, what, they should lie & say Beatles' music spoke to soul to not be redundant? Doesn't make sense.

2KDS: you seem annoyed at people not acknowledging Beatles. If some people hate them, let them. :) What's the big deal?


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 09:54:48 AM
Otherwise, what's the point of asking a *BEACH BOYS* message board which band they like more?

There's a point at which saying every year that "the Beach Boys spoke to my soul and the Beatles didn't" is going to get a bit redundant.
You didn't see that people in BBs message boards genuinely like Beatles & choose them to BBs?

If people say the phrase in quotes, what, they should lie & say Beatles' music spoke to soul to not be redundant? Doesn't make sense.

2KDS: you seem annoyed at people not acknowledging Beatles. If some people hate them, let them. :) What's the big deal?

My point is that I think some fans' judgement are so clouded by the fact that The Beatles are more revered than The Beach Boys that they refuse to give The Beatles any credit. 

To use a sports analogy, I'm from Baltimore, and our fans tend to suffer from a bit of an inferiority complex when it comes to our beloved Orioles and Ravens, to the point where fans will absurdly say things like "Why did Aaron Judge (Yankees) win the Rookie of the Year over Trey Mancini (Orioles)?  Typical pro Yankees bias."  In reality, Judge had a much better year, and at the early stages of their careers, seems to be the better player. 

It would be like if you went on a Beatles page, and saw every other comment about The Beach Boys say throwaway surf music, or songs about hotrods, etc. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 09:55:15 AM
In that light, fans saying that songs by The Beach Boys speak to them more than Beatles songs seems much more logical to me because they cite personal preference while still acknowledging the greatest of the Fab Four. 

Yeah, I totally agree the Beatles had far more hits. And I do consider them the better “band” (charts, hits, cohesive albums). Heck, this year I listened to Sgt. Pepper probably 10x more that I did Pet Sounds. Still, my own personal preference (which the OP asked for) is that based in a spiritual mindset (because that’s how I listen to The Beach Boys music mostly). Beach Boys will always be my favorite.

It’s nice to hear both sides, and considering this is a Beach Boys forum its interesting to see the Beatles are winning the poll.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 09:59:27 AM
In that light, fans saying that songs by The Beach Boys speak to them more than Beatles songs seems much more logical to me because they cite personal preference while still acknowledging the greatest of the Fab Four. 

Yeah, I totally agree the Beatles had far more hits. And I do consider them the better “band” (charts, hits, cohesive albums). Heck, this year I listened to Sgt. Pepper probably 10x more that I did Pet Sounds. Still, my own personal preference (which the OP asked for) is that based in a spiritual mindset (because that’s how I listen to The Beach Boys music mostly). Beach Boys will always be my favorite.

It’s nice to hear both sides, and considering this is a Beach Boys forum its interesting to see the Beatles are winning the poll.

Exactly.   It does make for an interesting comparison. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 10:03:29 AM
My point is that I think some fans' judgement are so clouded by the fact that The Beatles are more revered than The Beach Boys that they refuse to give The Beatles any credit. 

It would be like if you went on a Beatles page, and saw every other comment about The Beach Boys say throwaway surf music, or songs about hotrods, etc. 
Don't you think BBs fan's refusal to give credit to Beatles is due to genuine dislike of their material? It's possible & it exists. It can be like this - they read praises about Beatles, think hey should I check them, play music &...bam, they're absolutely clueless why Beatles got universal praise & reverence as s/he isn't impressed.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 10:07:22 AM
My point is that I think some fans' judgement are so clouded by the fact that The Beatles are more revered than The Beach Boys that they refuse to give The Beatles any credit.  

It would be like if you went on a Beatles page, and saw every other comment about The Beach Boys say throwaway surf music, or songs about hotrods, etc.  
Don't you think BBs fan's refusal to give credit to Beatles is due to genuine dislike of their material? It's possible & it exists. It can be like this - they read praises about Beatles, think hey should I check them, play music &...bam, they're absolutely clueless why Beatles got universal praise & reverence as s/he isn't impressed.

Sometimes, yes.  But, like in the case that HeyJude mentioned with some fans having 27 pressings of Problem Child without ever listening to Abbey Road, not so much.  

Plus, if you look at my post, I cited it's a very small number of BB fans.   


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 10:08:43 AM
It’s nice to hear both sides, and considering this is a Beach Boys forum its interesting to see the Beatles are winning the poll.
Yep, despite HeyJude advising to be little objective or else Beach Boys board wouldn't pick Beatles, 8 posters did. F.ex., Add Some who chose Beatles this year by doing simple math - 13 favorite Beatles vs. 12 favorite BBs. I shall reiterate - it's the best & easiest way.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 10:10:30 AM
Otherwise, what's the point of asking a *BEACH BOYS* message board which band they like more?

There's a point at which saying every year that "the Beach Boys spoke to my soul and the Beatles didn't" is going to get a bit redundant.
You didn't see that people in BBs message boards genuinely like Beatles & choose them to BBs?

If people say the phrase in quotes, what, they should lie & say Beatles' music spoke to soul to not be redundant? Doesn't make sense.


Yes, of course, some BB fans on this board have "voted" for the Beatles.

Of course I'm not suggesting someone lie about their preference. What I'm talking about is more the *worth* of this discussion itself.

If you just gather a bunch of fans of a given band and ask them if they like that band more or less than any other, the results are going to be *very* predictable. The 1963 vote was nearly 2-to-1 in favor the BBs. That kind of result would only take place on a BBs message board. Obviously.

If you get at least *a bit* outside of pure, 100% "what speaks to my soul" personal preference, then a discussion of the two bands can progress a bit.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 10:12:18 AM
It’s nice to hear both sides, and considering this is a Beach Boys forum its interesting to see the Beatles are winning the poll.
Yep, despite HeyJude advising to be little objective or else Beach Boys board wouldn't pick Beatles, 8 posters did. F.ex., Add Some who chose Beatles this year by doing simple math - 13 favorite Beatles vs. 12 favorite BBs. I shall reiterate - it's the best & easiest way.

I don't think it's too far out of the realm of possibility for fans on a BB forum to cast votes for The Beatles.  After all, there wouldn't be a General Music subforum if the posters here only preferred to listen to Beach Boys related material. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on January 10, 2018, 10:17:48 AM
2HeyJude: I like discussing & esp. comparing 2 music bands. It's fun! But, 2 can go hand in hand, right? You can be repetitive in choosing BBs every single year AND then discuss, muse about both bands etc. I don't see any problem there. It doesn't get in the way of discussing - till, of course, these people choose to keep silent.

2KDS: You agreed with me, then, actually.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 10:18:57 AM
My point is that I think some fans' judgement are so clouded by the fact that The Beatles are more revered than The Beach Boys that they refuse to give The Beatles any credit. 

It would be like if you went on a Beatles page, and saw every other comment about The Beach Boys say throwaway surf music, or songs about hotrods, etc. 
Don't you think BBs fan's refusal to give credit to Beatles is due to genuine dislike of their material? It's possible & it exists. It can be like this - they read praises about Beatles, think hey should I check them, play music &...bam, they're absolutely clueless why Beatles got universal praise & reverence as s/he isn't impressed.

It's interesting, because if someone just *LOVES* the BBs but sees *nothing* of merit about the Beatles, I would question whether they're just rooting for their own team and are being pretty close-minded musically. (I'd say the same thing about Beatles fans disliking all of the BB's output).

I think few folks have this stark of a contrast between their enjoyment of the two bands.

But yes, while it's a small minority, KDS's point is valid; occasionally I have seen BB fans who seem to have a "my team was robbed" sort of attitude towards the Beatles.

*Occasionally*, the Beatles' popularity is weirdly used against them when comparing the two bands.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 10:23:46 AM
2HeyJude: I like discussing & esp. comparing 2 music bands. It's fun! But, 2 can go hand in hand, right? You can be repetitive in choosing BBs every single year AND then discuss, muse about both bands etc. I don't see any problem there. It doesn't get in the way of discussing - till, of course, these people choose to keep silent.

2KDS: You agreed with me, then, actually.
\

I do agree that there may some some fans who've listened to the entire Beatles catalog who might not be into them.  Anything's possible.  I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

But, I tend to see less comments to that effect on BB forums and more of the "I'm rooting for my team" concept that HJ alludes to. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: pixletwin on January 10, 2018, 10:26:49 AM
Sorry, but if the Beatles had quit at the end of 1963 there would be little to sonically distinguish them (going by their albums only) fromtheir Mersey-side peers.

However, 1964 is different. I voted Beatles for 1964.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 10:30:22 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on January 10, 2018, 10:33:05 AM
Just to let you know, if we continue this poll for subsequent years, there will be years that I would vote for the Beatles.

Don't know how I can be totally objective. I am a singer who sang for over 40 years in various groups. The vocal tracks of songs such as When I Grow Up or She Knows Me Too Well never cease to amaze me.
If I was more of a musician I might feel differently, perhaps.



Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 10:34:33 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*

Crazy right?  But, much like tastes in music, it seems like tastes in comedy are ever changing.  I've had 20 somethings try to tell me that Rick & Morty, Bob's Burgers, Broad City, etc are the funniest shows on TV.  Meanwhile, I'm watching 20+ year old Seinfeld episodes on TBS.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 10:50:43 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*

Crazy right?  But, much like tastes in music, it seems like tastes in comedy are ever changing.  I've had 20 somethings try to tell me that Rick & Morty, Bob's Burgers, Broad City, etc are the funniest shows on TV.  Meanwhile, I'm watching 20+ year old Seinfeld episodes on TBS.

Yep! People have tried to get me into Bob’s Burgers and I just don’t get it. Give me Cheers or Seinfeld any day over that.

@HeyJude, might I suggest you be the one to kickstart the conversation you want to see? I think I and one other person mentioned the spiritual aspect (which is important to me, so I’m gonna mention it regardless of what people think of those opinions), which consisted of 2 or 3 posts, that leaves over 30-40 some posts in the thread wide open for discussion on individual Beatles tracks, their more cohesive albums, etc.

Frankly, I think there’s room for both personal outlooks and unbiased objectivity. Yes, the former doesn’t yield much hard information on the Beatles, but it does give us a real human perspective on why we love The Beach Boys. Is it redundant? Yeah, but sometimes that redundancy sparks enjoyable and/or enlightening anecdotes from people. But I also value the informative posts that do change the way I look at certain bands/songs/etc. I think we benefit from it all here.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 10:57:56 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*

Crazy right?  But, much like tastes in music, it seems like tastes in comedy are ever changing.  I've had 20 somethings try to tell me that Rick & Morty, Bob's Burgers, Broad City, etc are the funniest shows on TV.  Meanwhile, I'm watching 20+ year old Seinfeld episodes on TBS.

Yep! People have tried to get me into Bob’s Burgers and I just don’t get it. Give me Cheers or Seinfeld any day over that.



I've tried I think 3-4 episodes of Bob's Burgers.   But, maybe chuckled a few times.  I think the modern Simpsons, which is now in it's Summer in Paradise phase, is funnier. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Hickory Violet Part IV on January 10, 2018, 10:59:18 AM
I Get Around on it's own  outweighs the entire Beatles catalogue.  ;)


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 10, 2018, 11:01:31 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*
Serenity Now!


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: B.E. on January 10, 2018, 11:08:07 AM
... After that?  The Beach Boys win every year BY DEFAULT ...

Not if we match up all Beach Boys related projects vs all Beatles related projects! The Beach Boys would win '77, probably '72, and possibly '78 and '79. The rest of the 70s and 1980 would be ALL Beatles!

By the way, I'm not suggesting we attempt this  :lol


Okay, 1964... this is tough, again. The Beach Boys were more productive in 1964. Ignoring their #1 live album (which included many songs that hadn't been otherwise released by the group), the Beach Boys released approx. 39 songs to the Beatles 33. Not a fan of the filler? Ignore them. The Beach Boys released that many extra tracks in 1964.

Some of my favorite '64 Beach Boys songs: Fun Fun Fun, I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, She Knows Me Too Well, All Summer Long, Girls On The Beach, We'll Run Away, The Warmth of the Sun, Keep An Eye On Summer, Hushabye, Pom Pom Play Girl, Don't Back Down, Wendy, We Three Kings Of Orient Are. I could really go on, there are at least another dozen that I'm a fan of, but the word 'favorites' really loses meaning when you include all the songs  :lol

Some of my favorite '64 Beatles songs: If I Fell, I Should Have Known Better, And I Love Her, Tell Me Why, When I Get Home, You Can't Do That, I'll Be Back, No Reply, I'm A Loser, I Feel Fine, Baby's In Black, Long Tall Sally, Eight Days A Week, Every Little Thing, I Don't Want To Spoil The Party, I'll Follow The Sun. And I dig all the others as well.

Gosh, I love them both, equally, for different reasons!!! Brian and John were incredible in '64  :bow

It's honestly a TIE for me. Since that is not an option... :wallThe Beatles :wall

I think Pet Sounds, Smile, and early album filler overshadow Brian's best work from '63, '64, and '65. It's just as great, if not greater at times.

As an aside, I didn't realize that When I Grow Up / She Knows Me Too Well was released 7 months prior to Today!, then they released Dance Dance Dance, and then they released Do You Wanna Dance / Please Let Me Wonder leading up to the release of Today!.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 11:13:29 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*
Serenity Now!

(http://replygif.net/i/1342.gif)

My reaction to hearing DIA ‘17

@B.E. Great post!! I gotta say that Eight Days A Week, in my mind, nearly rivals that of The Beach Boys best work in this year...those chords and harmonies are outstanding.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 11:15:22 AM
... After that?  The Beach Boys win every year BY DEFAULT ...

Not if we match up all Beach Boys related projects vs all Beatles related projects! The Beach Boys would win '77, probably '72, and possibly '78 and '79. The rest of the 70s and 1980 would be ALL Beatles!

By the way, I'm not suggesting we attempt this  :lol


Okay, 1964... this is tough, again. The Beach Boys were more productive in 1964. Ignoring their #1 live album (which included many songs that hadn't been otherwise released by the group), the Beach Boys released approx. 39 songs to the Beatles 33. Not a fan of the filler? Ignore them. The Beach Boys released that many extra tracks in 1964.

Some of my favorite '64 Beach Boys songs: Fun Fun Fun, I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, She Knows Me Too Well, All Summer Long, Girls On The Beach, We'll Run Away, The Warmth of the Sun, Keep An Eye On Summer, Hushabye, Pom Pom Play Girl, Don't Back Down, Wendy, We Three Kings Of Orient Are. I could really go on, there are at least another dozen that I'm a fan of, but the word 'favorites' really loses meaning when you include all the songs  :lol

Some of my favorite '64 Beatles songs: If I Fell, I Should Have Known Better, And I Love Her, Tell Me Why, When I Get Home, You Can't Do That, I'll Be Back, No Reply, I'm A Loser, I Feel Fine, Baby's In Black, Long Tall Sally, Eight Days A Week, Every Little Thing, I Don't Want To Spoil The Party, I'll Follow The Sun. And I dig all the others as well.

Gosh, I love them both, equally, for different reasons!!! Brian and John were incredible in '64  :bow

It's honestly a TIE for me. Since that is not an option... :wallThe Beatles :wall

I think Pet Sounds, Smile, and early album filler overshadow Brian's best work from '63, '64, and '65. It's just as great, if not greater at times.

As an aside, I didn't realize that When I Grow Up / She Knows Me Too Well was released 7 months prior to Today!, then they released Dance Dance Dance, and then they released Do You Wanna Dance / Please Let Me Wonder leading up to the release of Today!.

Personally, I'd probably rate Brian's material from 63-65 higher than most of Smile (with the exception of GV and Surf's Up). 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 10, 2018, 11:21:45 AM
I've seen people say that the TV show Seinfeld isn't funny.

:o *grabs pitchfork*
Serenity Now!

(http://replygif.net/i/1342.gif)

My reaction to hearing DIA ‘17

@B.E. Great post!! I gotta say that Eight Days A Week, in my mind, nearly rivals that of The Beach Boys best work in this year...those chords and harmonies are outstanding.
Looks like Kramer stole Mike’s cabana wear....


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 11:40:02 AM
Sorry, but if the Beatles had quit at the end of 1963 there would be little to sonically distinguish them (going by their albums only) fromtheir Mersey-side peers.

However, 1964 is different. I voted Beatles for 1964.

I'm not sure why your comparison of the Beatles to other UK peers has to be confined only to albums. "She Loves You" is groundbreaking stylistically, and is far beyond other Merseyside/beat groups of that era. "I Want to Hold Your Hand" as well. I also tend to think other bands weren't often doing something as melodic nor as introspective as "There's a Place."

Sorry, even '63 Beatles are magic. They even made all the covers their own.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 11:57:46 AM
... After that?  The Beach Boys win every year BY DEFAULT ...

Not if we match up all Beach Boys related projects vs all Beatles related projects! The Beach Boys would win '77, probably '72, and possibly '78 and '79. The rest of the 70s and 1980 would be ALL Beatles!

By the way, I'm not suggesting we attempt this  :lol


Okay, 1964... this is tough, again. The Beach Boys were more productive in 1964. Ignoring their #1 live album (which included many songs that hadn't been otherwise released by the group), the Beach Boys released approx. 39 songs to the Beatles 33. Not a fan of the filler? Ignore them. The Beach Boys released that many extra tracks in 1964.

Some of my favorite '64 Beach Boys songs: Fun Fun Fun, I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, She Knows Me Too Well, All Summer Long, Girls On The Beach, We'll Run Away, The Warmth of the Sun, Keep An Eye On Summer, Hushabye, Pom Pom Play Girl, Don't Back Down, Wendy, We Three Kings Of Orient Are. I could really go on, there are at least another dozen that I'm a fan of, but the word 'favorites' really loses meaning when you include all the songs  :lol

Some of my favorite '64 Beatles songs: If I Fell, I Should Have Known Better, And I Love Her, Tell Me Why, When I Get Home, You Can't Do That, I'll Be Back, No Reply, I'm A Loser, I Feel Fine, Baby's In Black, Long Tall Sally, Eight Days A Week, Every Little Thing, I Don't Want To Spoil The Party, I'll Follow The Sun. And I dig all the others as well.

Gosh, I love them both, equally, for different reasons!!! Brian and John were incredible in '64  :bow

It's honestly a TIE for me. Since that is not an option... :wallThe Beatles :wall

I think Pet Sounds, Smile, and early album filler overshadow Brian's best work from '63, '64, and '65. It's just as great, if not greater at times.

As an aside, I didn't realize that When I Grow Up / She Knows Me Too Well was released 7 months prior to Today!, then they released Dance Dance Dance, and then they released Do You Wanna Dance / Please Let Me Wonder leading up to the release of Today!.

Not to jump ahead, but I'd say "London Town" betters "MIU Album" (and I like both albums), and I'll throw in Ringo's "Heart on my Sleeve" against any of the lot.

As far as '79 both McCartney's "Back to the Egg" and Harrison's self-titled album better "LA (Light Album)", which I also adore.

But yes, I'll attempt to stay onto 1964.

While total number of "good" or "great" songs, regardless of filler, is one solid measure (though obviously still hugely subjective), I do think putting out *great albums* is a very, very important part of measuring the greatness of a band.

A huge hunk of, say, the "Surf's Up" album is among the BB's greatest work. But it also has one awful track ("Student Demonstration Time"), a sometimes enjoyable but very slight track ("Take a Load Off Your Feet"), and so on.

So the filler tracks from the BBs do bring down the sort of cumulative average. I'll even cut the BBs some slack in the regard because Capitol liked to thin out album but then put *more* albums out than in the UK. But if you look at the Beatles' thinned-out FIVE studio albums released in the US in 1964, culled in part from of course '63 material, there still isn't any filler.

There's no direct comparison, but if you stretched the BB's '64 output into another album or two and pulled some stuff from '63, there would *still* be some filler there.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 10, 2018, 01:14:55 PM
Yes, of course, some BB fans on this board have "voted" for the Beatles.
The 1963 vote was nearly 2-to-1 in favor the BBs. That kind of result would only take place on a BBs message board. Obviously.

If you get at least *a bit* outside of pure, 100% "what speaks to my soul" personal preference, then a discussion of the two bands can progress a bit.


I disagree to a point. ..A LOT.  Although the Beach Boys songs often mean more to me than those recorded by the Fabulous boys...it doesn't diminish the fact that the Liverpool Quartet spoke to more souls than just mine alone in 1964 and so, recognizing THAT, I felt compelled to give them the edge.  Holding down 5 of the top 5 positions on the 'hot 100' of the day as they did for a time in '64 suggests that I chose wisely.  None of that happened until after they arrived in New York in February 1964.

That the Beach Boys pounded the Beatles in '63 was the only outcome which made, or makes, sense to this very minute.  Paul's Group...sorry...John's Group. as of Jan 1st, 1964, were still weeks away from appearing on Ed Sullivan...I Want to Hold Your Gland and I Saw All 17 years of Her Standing There..."and my heart went BOOM!!!"...the double sided hit which introduced Beatles wigs into the vernacular...had yet to really see the light of American loafers as opposed to Beatle Boots.

No...in North America...The Beach Boys scored hit after hit after hit after hit.  They scaled the album charts with 3...count 'em 3 TOP l.p.s including Surfin USA, which was on the charts close to forever THAT year, along with Surfer Girl and Little Deuce Coupe.  Surfin' USA AND ShutDown, Surfer Girl AND Little Deuce Coupe, Be True to Your School and perhaps less obviously In My Room,  and a BETTER Christmas song than any seasonal offering the Beatles ever had a try at coupled with VERY impressive album sales to totally dominate 1963.  The only band which gave the Beach Boys a run for their money in '63 were the 4 Seasons.  [who sometimes shared the Vee-Jay label with that group from 'over 'ome/across the foam.']  All the Beatles could manage on this side of the Atlantic in 1963 was She Loves You ...ya ya ya...and in some spots Roll Over Beethoven.  The Beach Boys pounded the living daylights outta The Beetles-'with an A' in 1963.  It was, in fact, NO contest.  I was there...listening to the radio, buyin' the records and watching TV.  Wikipedia's info is not accurate or solid.

And when the Beatles did get the ball rolling...and  R O L L  it did...the 1 American band that stood up and accepted the challenge...in February...simultaneously...was the Fun Fun Fun/I Get Around/Don't Worry Baby/When I Grow Up/Dance Dance Dance...L.p. after L.p.  Beach Boys.  The fact that they would  go on to regain the TOP SPOT/Top Band accolades in 1966 is a testament to their talents and 'sticktoit-ness'.  I don't give a flyin' rat turd what board a person 'frequents'.  Dem's da facts.  In 1963 the Beach Boys owned the top spot...and then some.  Ya ya ya...YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I totally forgot about the Beach Boys Concert album in '64...one of the biggest selling albums of the year...in spite of faking I Get Around onto the tail end there...which I must say pissed me off a ton...and I was only 12...  Still gotta give the Beatles an edge.  To be honest...after all the practice the Beatles had in Germany and England...particularly Liverpool...in terms of performing live and gettin' TIGHT...when they hit America's shores in '64...they were better up on stage.  More show-biz...better rehearsed, tighter...and cooler clothes. [and hair].  All the Beach Boys could do was OUT SING 'em.  [and, at least, hold their own with the musical composition side of things]

Oh and as for pitting single solo Beatles up against the Beach Boys who, some say, are still touring to this very era...in fact 3 of them...Brian, Al and Blondie are heading out again this year...the Beatles fell off the grid in 1970.  So spin your spin in a different thread.  THIS ONE is all about The Beach Boys versus The Beatles...Band vs. Band.  Nice try. :p


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 01:18:48 PM
Yes, of course, some BB fans on this board have "voted" for the Beatles.
The 1963 vote was nearly 2-to-1 in favor the BBs. That kind of result would only take place on a BBs message board. Obviously.

If you get at least *a bit* outside of pure, 100% "what speaks to my soul" personal preference, then a discussion of the two bands can progress a bit.


  and a BETTER Christmas song than any seasonal offering the Beatles ever had a try at coupled with VERY impressive album sales to totally dominate 1963. 

I'll say that's one thing that The Beach Boys can always say they bested The Beatles at, Christmas Music.  Even the Auld Lang Syne with the stumbling spoken word bit by Denny is better than The Beatles tone attempt at a Yuletide song "Christmas Time is Here Again." 

Although, to be fair, John later wrote what is IMO the greatest Christmas song of the popular music era.   


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 01:29:00 PM
But let's remember that "Christmas Time (Is Here Again)" was never intended to be released as a single or on an album. It was recorded as essentially background/interstitial music for a freebie fan club record.

Worth noting is that the Beatles never felt the need to cut an XMas album, nor did any of the solo Beatles apart from Ringo in the late 90s, who has chosen for whatever reason to churn out about 37 albums in the last 20 years.

Also, for whatever it's worth, Billboard's "Holiday 100" for the end of 2017 listed Lennon's "Happy XMas (War is Over)" at #20, McCartney's "Wonderful Christmastime" at #23, and the BB's "Little Saint Nick" at #35. All quite solid positions for such old songs, especially as the list becomes more and more inundated with stuff from the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 01:33:04 PM
The thing with 1963 Beatles is that, yes, if you're going to measure impact in the US, then the Beatles were a non-issue until 1964.

But if we're going to look at popularity relative to native region, and/or just look at the quality of the released/recorded material, I think the Beatles still take it. If we go first album-to-first album, "Please Please Me" is immensely stronger than "Surfin' Safari." If we're going album-to-album in 1963, any one of "Please Please Me" or "With the Beatles" outdoes any '63 BB album front-to-back.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 01:33:26 PM
But let's remember that "Christmas Time (Is Here Again)" was never intended to be released as a single or on an album. It was recorded as essentially background/interstitial music for a freebie fan club record.

Worth noting is that the Beatles never felt the need to cut an XMas album, nor did any of the solo Beatles apart from Ringo in the late 90s, who has chosen for whatever reason to churn out about 37 albums in the last 20 years.

Also, for whatever it's worth, Billboard's "Holiday 100" for the end of 2017 listed Lennon's "Happy XMas (War is Over)" at #20, McCartney's "Wonderful Christmastime" at #23, and the BB's "Little Saint Nick" at #35. All quite solid positions for such old songs, especially as the list becomes more and more inundated with stuff from the 80s, 90s, and 2000s.

That's true, but Christmas Time Again was reedited as a single and released along with Free As a Bird, so it's there.   And, I might as well give The Beach Boys an edge in something, right?  

I'm a little surprised Billboard rated McCartney's Xmas song so highly.  It seems like I see it on a ton of "Worst Xmas Song" lists (I 100% disagree).  


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 01:36:59 PM
McCartney's "Wonderful Christmastime" at #23, and the BB's "Little Saint Nick" at #35.

God that makes me sad. Replace McCartney’s name on that single with Joe Shmoe and it would get zero air-time.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 01:41:06 PM
I'm a little surprised Billboard rated McCartney's Xmas song so highly.  It seems like I see it on a ton of "Worst Xmas Song" lists (I 100% disagree).  

There’s a radio station in my area that plays nonstop Christmas music during the holidays, I can confidently say that they played McCartney’s song far more times than they did ‘Little Saint Nick’ this year. Quite baffling to me that its as popular as it is. Is it the worst Christmas song? Not at all, but it’s certainly far less interesting, beautiful, and musically technical than ‘Little Saint Nick’.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 10, 2018, 01:43:17 PM
I'm a little surprised Billboard rated McCartney's Xmas song so highly.  It seems like I see it on a ton of "Worst Xmas Song" lists (I 100% disagree).  

There’s a radio station in my area that plays nonstop Christmas music during the holidays, I can confidently say that they played McCartney’s song far more times than they did ‘Little Saint Nick’ this year. Quite baffling to me that its as popular as it is. Is it the worst Christmas song? Not at all, but it’s certainly far less interesting, beautiful, and musically technical than ‘Little Saint Nick’.

Same with the one in my region.  Seems like the BB Xmas stuff fell out of favor a bit on my local station.  It's not the age of the material as they play stuff much older.  But, I guess they needed to make room for some of those dreadful modern Christmas songs. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 10, 2018, 01:44:58 PM
This is not a regional competition.  If you own The U.S. of A and Canada simultaneously...you win by the weight of shear numbers...fans and sales.  Sorry to the UK crew...but it wouldn't be long 'til THEY figured things out and elevated the BOYS to #1 in Great Britain too..

Lennon's Christmas song is great.  McCartney's is crud.  Brian's is still terrific and loads of folks have recorded it.  I prefer it to Lennon's.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 01:46:13 PM
I'm a little surprised Billboard rated McCartney's Xmas song so highly.  It seems like I see it on a ton of "Worst Xmas Song" lists (I 100% disagree).  

There’s a radio station in my area that plays nonstop Christmas music during the holidays, I can confidently say that they played McCartney’s song far more times than they did ‘Little Saint Nick’ this year. Quite baffling to me that its as popular as it is. Is it the worst Christmas song? Not at all, but it’s certainly far less interesting, beautiful, and musically technical than ‘Little Saint Nick’.

Same with the one in my region.  Seems like the BB Xmas stuff fell out of favor a bit on my local station.  It's not the age of the material as they play stuff much older.  But, I guess they needed to make room for some of those dreadful modern Christmas songs. 

Haha yeah, I think it was hearing the Mariah Carey song for the 30th time that finally had me turn off that station for good well before Christmas Day.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 01:49:26 PM
Lennon's Christmas song is great.  McCartney's is crud.  Brian's is still terrific and loads of folks have recorded it.  I prefer it to Lennon's.

Between the two I’d find it hard to pick a favorite. Brian’s is happier and more in tune with the season, but Lennon’s is so emotionally good.

Not to veer this too far off topic, but I would love for Brian’s ‘On Christmas Day’ to get some radio play during the holidays.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 02:04:49 PM
This is not a regional competition.  If you own The U.S. of A and Canada simultaneously...you win by the weight of shear numbers...fans and sales.  Sorry to the UK crew...but it wouldn't be long 'til THEY figured things out and elevated the BOYS to #1 in Great Britain too..

Lennon's Christmas song is great.  McCartney's is crud.  Brian's is still terrific and loads of folks have recorded it.  I prefer it to Lennon's.

Regions shouldn't matter (and if they did, the Beatles have sold more records and had more #1 records in the UK *and* the US than the BBs), but the 1963 perspective on the two bands in each region was very different *in* 1963 than it is now. Neither were likely listening to each other much if at all.

Also, while the BBs had a great sort of "second life" in the UK, they weren't hitting a ton of #1 records there either. I know Mike Love still reminds everyone of that one NME poll the BBs won, but the BBs were never knocking the Beatles off the album or singles charts in head-to-head competition. The Beatles had at least 27 unique #1 singles in the US and UK. The BBs had five.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 02:07:02 PM
Lennon's Christmas song is great.  McCartney's is crud.  Brian's is still terrific and loads of folks have recorded it.  I prefer it to Lennon's.

Between the two I’d find it hard to pick a favorite. Brian’s is happier and more in tune with the season, but Lennon’s is so emotionally good.

Not to veer this too far off topic, but I would love for Brian’s ‘On Christmas Day’ to get some radio play during the holidays.

"On Christmas Day" I always found grating because it's a clear rip-off of "Bells of Christmas"/"Belles of Paris" (and those two songs aren't so great as it is). One instance where Mike Love (and Ron Altbach) probably *should* have been given a co-writing credit.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 10, 2018, 02:10:29 PM
"Wonderful Christmastime" was essentially a tossed-off "McCartney II" outtake released early for the '79 XMas season. He never stuck it on an album and never formed an XMas album around it. It's an easy target. It's inane and annoying repetitive. I don't think McCartney ever thought it was high art. It was a novelty bit. His "PT Cruiser" as it were.

It has been on ASCAP's (or BMI's) top XMas songs list for many years now. A good hunk of XMas music is of the novelty nature. At least McCartney (barely) wrote an original number just as Lennon and the BBs did.

Want to fall asleep? Listen to Paul's "The Christmas Song", itself an outtake from the execrable "Kisses on the Bottom" album.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 10, 2018, 02:15:59 PM
"Wonderful Christmastime" was essentially a tossed-off "McCartney II" outtake released early for the '79 XMas season. He never stuck it on an album and never formed an XMas album around it. It's an easy target. It's inane and annoying repetitive. I don't think McCartney ever thought it was high art. It was a novelty bit. His "PT Cruiser" as it were.

It has been on ASCAP's (or BMI's) top XMas songs list for many years now. A good hunk of XMas music is of the novelty nature. At least McCartney (barely) wrote an original number just as Lennon and the BBs did.

Want to fall asleep? Listen to Paul's "The Christmas Song", itself an outtake from the execrable "Kisses on the Bottom" album.

Yeah, it doesn’t bother me that he wrote and recorded it, it bothers me that its so overplayed every season. I wonder how Paul himself feels about it (outside of being happy he makes money from it).

And as for ‘On Christmas Day’, I personally really enjoy it - it does sound like a rip off of Bells of Christmas, but it improves it tenfold.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: B.E. on January 10, 2018, 02:31:12 PM
Not to jump ahead, but I'd say "London Town" betters "MIU Album" (and I like both albums), and I'll throw in Ringo's "Heart on my Sleeve" against any of the lot.

As far as '79 both McCartney's "Back to the Egg" and Harrison's self-titled album better "LA (Light Album)", which I also adore.

Hmm, "Heart On My Sleeve" is better than I remember. Last summer I was working on a 'Best Of' Ringo playlist and the only song I chose from Bad Boy was Tonight. I still prefer it, but if I ever finish working on that playlist I'll reconsider including "Heart On My Sleeve".



Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 05:37:56 AM
I'm a little surprised Billboard rated McCartney's Xmas song so highly.  It seems like I see it on a ton of "Worst Xmas Song" lists (I 100% disagree).  

There’s a radio station in my area that plays nonstop Christmas music during the holidays, I can confidently say that they played McCartney’s song far more times than they did ‘Little Saint Nick’ this year. Quite baffling to me that its as popular as it is. Is it the worst Christmas song? Not at all, but it’s certainly far less interesting, beautiful, and musically technical than ‘Little Saint Nick’.

Same with the one in my region.  Seems like the BB Xmas stuff fell out of favor a bit on my local station.  It's not the age of the material as they play stuff much older.  But, I guess they needed to make room for some of those dreadful modern Christmas songs. 

Haha yeah, I think it was hearing the Mariah Carey song for the 30th time that finally had me turn off that station for good well before Christmas Day.

As soon as I hear those first few notes of that Mariah Carey song, the radio goes CLICK.  Then, there's a soundalike song by Kelly Clarkson that's equally bad. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 05:39:38 AM
Lennon's Christmas song is great.  McCartney's is crud.  Brian's is still terrific and loads of folks have recorded it.  I prefer it to Lennon's.

Between the two I’d find it hard to pick a favorite. Brian’s is happier and more in tune with the season, but Lennon’s is so emotionally good.

Not to veer this too far off topic, but I would love for Brian’s ‘On Christmas Day’ to get some radio play during the holidays.

Lennon all the way for me.  No contest.  It doesn't feel like Christmas until I hear that song. 

It would be nice to see the Christmas stations mix in some of Brian's Christmas songs.  GF started a thread about that a few months ago.   But, such is life.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 11, 2018, 06:15:35 AM
Oh man I think I heard that Clarkson version one day and immediately changed the station.

I don’t think I could pick a favorite between Xmas and St Nick. You’re right, doesn’t feel like Christmas until you’ve heard Lennon’s song, but I also feel that way about hearing Brian’s falsetto wail at the end of St Nick. But I’m glad they’re both given plenty of airtime around Christmas.

 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: pixletwin on January 11, 2018, 06:23:04 AM
Oh man I think I heard that Clarkson version one day and immediately changed the station.

I don’t think I could pick a favorite between Xmas and St Nick. You’re right, doesn’t feel like Christmas until you’ve heard Lennon’s song, but I also feel that way about hearing Brian’s falsetto wail at the end of St Nick. But I’m glad they’re both given plenty of airtime around Christmas.

 

Same. Luckily my local station that plays Christmas music plays St. Nick and Christmas Day. The last few years they have even begum playing "On Christmas Day" and the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 11, 2018, 06:32:13 AM
Oh man I think I heard that Clarkson version one day and immediately changed the station.

I don’t think I could pick a favorite between Xmas and St Nick. You’re right, doesn’t feel like Christmas until you’ve heard Lennon’s song, but I also feel that way about hearing Brian’s falsetto wail at the end of St Nick. But I’m glad they’re both given plenty of airtime around Christmas.

 

Same. Luckily my local station that plays Christmas music plays St. Nick and Christmas Day. The last few years they have even begum playing "On Christmas Day" and the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys.

I hope the station here starts doing that! I find myself listening to the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys more than I listen to the vintage version...it just seems more complete, and I don’t know why.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 07:26:06 AM
Oh man I think I heard that Clarkson version one day and immediately changed the station.

I don’t think I could pick a favorite between Xmas and St Nick. You’re right, doesn’t feel like Christmas until you’ve heard Lennon’s song, but I also feel that way about hearing Brian’s falsetto wail at the end of St Nick. But I’m glad they’re both given plenty of airtime around Christmas.

 

Same. Luckily my local station that plays Christmas music plays St. Nick and Christmas Day. The last few years they have even begum playing "On Christmas Day" and the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys.

I hope the station here starts doing that! I find myself listening to the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys more than I listen to the vintage version...it just seems more complete, and I don’t know why.

The last two Christmases, I think I listened to Brian's album more.  It feels a little more cohesive, whereas the BB Xmas album feels like two mini albums. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 11, 2018, 08:02:09 AM
Oh man I think I heard that Clarkson version one day and immediately changed the station.

I don’t think I could pick a favorite between Xmas and St Nick. You’re right, doesn’t feel like Christmas until you’ve heard Lennon’s song, but I also feel that way about hearing Brian’s falsetto wail at the end of St Nick. But I’m glad they’re both given plenty of airtime around Christmas.

 

Same. Luckily my local station that plays Christmas music plays St. Nick and Christmas Day. The last few years they have even begum playing "On Christmas Day" and the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys.

I hope the station here starts doing that! I find myself listening to the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys more than I listen to the vintage version...it just seems more complete, and I don’t know why.

The last two Christmases, I think I listened to Brian's album more.  It feels a little more cohesive, whereas the BB Xmas album feels like two mini albums. 

Same! Joy To The World is one of my favorites from that one.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 08:03:42 AM
Oh man I think I heard that Clarkson version one day and immediately changed the station.

I don’t think I could pick a favorite between Xmas and St Nick. You’re right, doesn’t feel like Christmas until you’ve heard Lennon’s song, but I also feel that way about hearing Brian’s falsetto wail at the end of St Nick. But I’m glad they’re both given plenty of airtime around Christmas.

 

Same. Luckily my local station that plays Christmas music plays St. Nick and Christmas Day. The last few years they have even begum playing "On Christmas Day" and the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys.

I hope the station here starts doing that! I find myself listening to the WIRWFC version of Man With All The Toys more than I listen to the vintage version...it just seems more complete, and I don’t know why.

The last two Christmases, I think I listened to Brian's album more.  It feels a little more cohesive, whereas the BB Xmas album feels like two mini albums. 

Same! Joy To The World is one of my favorites from that one.

My favorite of the covers is God Rest Ye Merry Gentleman. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 11, 2018, 08:15:54 AM
Yeah, I really like the fast/rockin tempo of it (and that great instrumental section in the middle of it)...totally different from all the other versions I’ve heard.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 08:17:39 AM
Yeah, I really like the fast/rockin tempo of it (and that great instrumental section in the middle of it)...totally different from all the other versions I’ve heard.

Yep.  That great instrumental section is something I don't think you hear enough of in Brian's solo work IMO. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 11, 2018, 08:46:24 AM
Yeah, I really like the fast/rockin tempo of it (and that great instrumental section in the middle of it)...totally different from all the other versions I’ve heard.

Yep.  That great instrumental section is something I don't think you hear enough of in Brian's solo work IMO. 

If this rock n roll album is actually happening, I wonder if we’ll be treated to more of those little instrumental interludes.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 08:56:16 AM
Yeah, I really like the fast/rockin tempo of it (and that great instrumental section in the middle of it)...totally different from all the other versions I’ve heard.

Yep.  That great instrumental section is something I don't think you hear enough of in Brian's solo work IMO. 

If this rock n roll album is actually happening, I wonder if we’ll be treated to more of those little instrumental interludes.

I hope so, and I'd like it to have more of a live sound like on WIRWFC and TLOS.   Granted, I'm OK with Joe Thomas's work on Imagination, TWGMTR, and NPP, but I don't think his production style would really work if Brian's doing Chuck Berry numbers. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: rab2591 on January 11, 2018, 09:11:08 AM
Yeah, I really like the fast/rockin tempo of it (and that great instrumental section in the middle of it)...totally different from all the other versions I’ve heard.

Yep.  That great instrumental section is something I don't think you hear enough of in Brian's solo work IMO. 

If this rock n roll album is actually happening, I wonder if we’ll be treated to more of those little instrumental interludes.

I hope so, and I'd like it to have more of a live sound like on WIRWFC and TLOS.   Granted, I'm OK with Joe Thomas's work on Imagination, TWGMTR, and NPP, but I don't think his production style would really work if Brian's doing Chuck Berry numbers. 

Yeah, I’d like the record to sound a bit like ‘Nothing But Love’ from Gershwin - only I wish Brian would do more of his background vocals, I love his backing band but I feel like he really needs to do some background parts in places.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 11, 2018, 09:19:56 AM
Yeah, I really like the fast/rockin tempo of it (and that great instrumental section in the middle of it)...totally different from all the other versions I’ve heard.

Yep.  That great instrumental section is something I don't think you hear enough of in Brian's solo work IMO. 

If this rock n roll album is actually happening, I wonder if we’ll be treated to more of those little instrumental interludes.

I hope so, and I'd like it to have more of a live sound like on WIRWFC and TLOS.   Granted, I'm OK with Joe Thomas's work on Imagination, TWGMTR, and NPP, but I don't think his production style would really work if Brian's doing Chuck Berry numbers. 

Yeah, I’d like the record to sound a bit like ‘Nothing But Love’ from Gershwin - only I wish Brian would do more of his background vocals, I love his backing band but I feel like he really needs to do some background parts in places.

Yeah, the Gershwin album has a great sound too.  Although, I have to respectfully disagree that I prefer Brian's band to do the background vox.  I guess that would / might include Al???  He's not officially listed as a member of Brian's band. 


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 11, 2018, 10:13:11 AM
[well my]  HEART WENT BOOOOM!!!
[when I]   CROSSED THAT ROOM
[and I]     HELD HER HAND
..........................................eeeeeeeeeeeen
................IN Myyyyyyyyyyy^

Lyrics?   :-[  Not so much.  Early on the  Fabulettes were lyrically challenged by the times and by their lack of experience at the song writers' table.  I mean that SHYTE was weaker than sin.  In 1963/64 I immediately found it easy to choose between "heart went/boom/crossed that room/held her hand in MY-eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen" and

What good is the dawn
That grows into day
The sunset at night
Or living this way

For I have the warmth of the sun
(Warmth of the sun)
Within me at night
(Within me at night)

The love of my life
She left me one day
I cried when she said
"I don't feel the same way"

Still I have the warmth of the sun
(Warmth of the sun)
Within me tonight
(Within me tonight)

I'll dreams of her arms
And though they're not real
Just like she's still there
The way that I feel

My love's like the warmth of the sun
(Warmth of the sun)
It won't ever die
(It won't ever die)

In my haste to create waste...[and waist] I foolishly cast my vote for the Long Haired Lovers from Liverpool not only in this thread...but also in the accompanying poll.  Not sure I can rescind my poll vote...but I am doing so in DISYA thread.  [Currently the poll reads Beatles 15...Beach Boys 11.  IT SHOULD NOW READ 14 to 12.]  I also hereby officially change my vote to  B E A C H  B O Y S !!!  [boom!!!!!]


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 11, 2018, 10:27:51 AM
It's a bit silly to take the widely agreed-upon most celebrated, introspective set of lyrics from the early BB catalog and put it up against a barn-burner rocker opener song on the Beatles' *debut* album. The Beach Boys also released lyrics like these:

Ten little Indian boys

The first little Indian gave squaw pretty feather
(Little Indian boy)
The second little Indian made her an Indian dollar
(Fighting over a squaw)
Well the third little Indian gave her moccasin leather
(Little Indian boy)
The squaw didn't like 'em at all
The fourth little Indian took her riding in his big canoe
(Little Indian boy)
The fifth little Indian took her down the waterfall
(Fighting over a squaw)
The sixth little Indian taught the squaw how to woo-woo
(Little Indian boy)
But the squaw didn't like them at all

One little, two little, three little Indians
(Keep us humming we're the ten little Indians)
Four little, five little, six little Indians
(Keep us humming we're the ten little Indians)
Seven little, eight little, nine little Indians
(Keep us humming we're the ten little Indians)
Ten little Indian boys

The seventh little Indian took her over to his teepee
(Little Indian boy)
The eighth little Indian tried to give her a love poem
(Fighting over a squaw)
The ninth little Indian said "You're my Kemosabe"
(Little Indian boy)
The squaw didn't like them at all
The tenth little Indian said it really didn't matter
(Little Indian boy)
He acted like himself and he didn't look at her
(Fighting over a squaw)
The squaw didn't care if he never did a thing
(Little Indian boy)
Because she loved the tenth Indian boy

Loved the tenth Indian boy[x3]

AND

Lana Lana oh Lana dear
 Please come along with me

 We'll go (Lana dear) we'll go (Lana dear)
 So far away (Lana dear) (Lana dear)
 So happy (Lana dear) we will be (Lana dear)

 I'll show (come with me) I'll show (come with me)
 You another world (come with me) (come with me)
 Alone (come with me) with silver (come with me) and gold (Lana dear)

 (Oooooooooooo)
 (Oooooooooooo-ooooo)

 Don't dear (Lana dear) please don't (Lana dear)
 Don't be afraid (Lana dear) (Lana dear)
 It's heaven (Lana dear) I've been told (Lana dear) (Lana dear)

 Lana (come with me) Lana (come with me) Oh Lana dear (come with me)
 Please (come with me) come along (come with me) with me (Lana dear)

 Lana (Lana dear) Lana (Lana dear) oh Lana dear (Lana dear) (Lana dear)
 Please (Lana dear) come along (Lana dear) with me (Lana dear)

Not to mention, the first BB album of 1963 is packed with FIVE instrumentals. They were treading a bit lightly in the lyrical department in that era.




Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 11, 2018, 10:37:17 AM
Agreed.  It is a bit silly to compare a road apple to a juicy edible apple...and even sillier to effin' vote for it.  I've come to my senses.  Off you go young Jude.  Your opinion with stay yours.  Votes, on the other hand, are really all that COUNT in this thread.  :hat
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh...and by the way...was Lana written in 1962?  Why yes...I believe it was.  And so too was the 10 wee First Nations fellas ditty/reconstituted nursery-rhymey thingy...So?...As this is the thread regarding songs which made an impact in 1964...Off ya go!!!! ;)

And while we're at it...I'm sure you realize that MUCH of 'The Beach Boys Today was not only composed but also recorded in 1964...although it didn't make noise in the light of day 'til 1965.  But then we're getting head of ourselves...not to the 70s like we did with Happy Xmas [War is Over] and what's-it?  Simply having a Vunderbar Xmas Time...as opposed to the more topical Little St. Nick which was initially released in December of '63 and then made its official album debut in what?  Why 1964.  [you know...the year in question]..And if you would suppose to think that ANYONE here thinks that I Saw Her Loitering There is the 'Fabbies' only dinky lyrics song from THAT era...well let me send all my lovin' to you. :lol


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: B.E. on January 11, 2018, 11:02:16 AM
Agreed.  It is a bit silly to compare a road apple to a juicy edible apple...and even sillier to effin' vote for it.  I've come to my senses.  Off you go young Jude.  Your opinion with stay yours.  Votes, on the other hand, are really all that COUNT in this thread.  :hat
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oh...and by the way...was Lana written in 1962?  Why yes...I believe it was.  And so too was the 10 wee First Nations fellas ditty ...So?...As this is the thread regarding songs which made an impact in 1964...Off ya go!!!!

Well, I'm glad you changed your vote. Your supposed to vote for who you prefer. It's stated clearly in the original post. You could have at least cherry-picked a 1964 Beatles lyric, though. The original post also outlines which songs we are voting on.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lee Marshall on January 11, 2018, 11:10:35 AM
Rules are for good guys.  Good guys never win.  I'm to do what I'm supposed to do?  Book yourself a room with a bed and bring a few changes of clothing.  We'll be here awhile.  1964 is 1964.  What actually, really happened in 1964, in real time, will dictate my path...not 'rules'.  Besides in order for there to EVER be a rule...there must, therefore, also be the accompanying 'exception to the rule'...which as always...was made to be broken.  >:D  [just like Beatles' records after Johnny's Heyzuss 'remark'.]  But now I'm getting 2 years ahead of 1964.  B.E. buddy...If I vote for who I prefer...it's gonna be the BEACH BOYS every year.  But I also have a sense for the reality of it all...and I can appreciate a better effort.  Like although it isn't even ***my*** favourite Beatles album I believe the Fab 3's wave goodbye to Paul and their welcoming of Faul...namely Sergent Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band...was the l.p. of 1967 and although I prefer the BEACH BOYS for Heroes and Villains...a coupla Smelly Smell tunes, and also for the Wild Honey album 'cause it 'spoke to my soul'...my common sense dictates that I MUST go with the Hair Crew in '67.  Their quantum leap outdistanced the SMiLE single.  If SMiLE had been released....?...?...?  BEACH BOYS by a country mile.  It has longevity.  Sgt. Peppers is a 'time capsule'.
-----------------------------

In 1964...Brian was tinkering with full orchestras...John found that if he put his guitar too close to an amp...it fed back.  And 'he' get's big cred for it.  Doi-oip dee doip.  Doi-oip dee doip.  We're not kids anymore.  Brian was years ahead of the 'mopulettes' in 1964.  [and remember I do like...and liked...the Beatles too.]


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: SMiLE-addict on January 11, 2018, 03:44:23 PM
Both bands were really hitting on all cylinders from 1964-1966.  
This. Those 3 years it's basically a tie. I won't even vote!

EDIT: After further contemplation I decided to vote for the Beatles, by a hair.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lonely Summer on January 11, 2018, 11:24:06 PM
1964 belonged to the Beatles. If you lived in the US, you got Meet the Beatles, Introducing the Beatles, The Beatles' Second (but in reality, their third) Album, Something New, A Hard Days Night, Beatles '65. One great album after another, filled with mostly great, energetic rock and roll. The Beach Boys were just getting better and better in 64 - I Get Around, Don't Worry Baby, Warmth of the Sun...but 1964 was the Beatles year.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on January 12, 2018, 02:29:22 AM
Yes, the US had to play "catch up" with the Beatles catalog so we were bombarded with them that year. I remember all the albums my sisters got, not only from Capitol but also from the Veejay label, also singles such as My Bonnie.
Every single put out by them charted, regardless of quality. (Love Me Do, with the immortal lyrics "Love, love me do, I know I love you, I'll always love you, so please, love me do" -reached #1 in the US for crying out loud).

I'm a big Beatles fan and they had some great songs in 1964. Even more in 1965.
Anyway, this poll is supposed to be about personal preference and not commercial success of one group or another. It looks like people here prefer the pure rock and roll to a more pop sound.  That's cool.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 12, 2018, 09:26:50 AM
Has everyone here listened to the lyrics on *all* the songs on the early BB albums? What's the deal with picking at "Love Me Do" (LITERALLY the Beatles' first single released in *1962*) and "I Saw Her Standing There?" As if this being a *Beach Boys* board wasn't already skewing a "personal preference" debate between the two bands enough, now we're cherry picking lyrics to throw up against each other. "Strawberry Fields Forever" had better lyrics than "Surfin' Safari." And?

Mike Love wrote some great lyrics. But he (and the other guys) also wrote some stuff *as* if not more inane than the worst the Beatles ever wrote. Some of the best lyrics put to record for the BBs were written by outside writers.

I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 12, 2018, 09:58:19 AM


I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


But, if people aren't being 100% objective and not going by personal preference, then what's the point?   If that were the case, 100% of the votes for each year would go to The Beatles. 



Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 12, 2018, 09:58:51 AM
The Beach Boys never had a singular moment like The Beatles appearing for the first time on Ed Sullivan. That was a cultural event, a landmark moment in history where a majority of America was tuned in to a TV show on a winter Sunday night in 1964 to see a *rock band*, and it became one of those shared experiences where people who witnessed it remember it vividly, and share that memory with something like 70 million others who were watching CBS that same night. Considering the number of TV sets in US homes at that time, the numbers and share of audience stats are actually staggering...and they tuned in to see a rock and roll band play music. That's all it was, really.

Go through the archives of American musicians who became successful in their own right who were watching that show as kids or as teens in 1964, and many will cite that moment as the point when they saw these guys in their early 20's playing rock and roll in a band and said "hey, I want to do this and I can do this", and proceeded to become musicians and write songs and form bands. It changed music, and that isn't hype or hyperbole. Understand too that this was an experience that fans outside the US who did not see what happened in Feb 1964 would not share and might not put into the same historical context.

But when a rock band appearing on a variety show on a Sunday night in Feb 1964 becomes a cultural landmark in pop culture, a shared experience that influenced and shaped musicians and music for the next few decades, it cannot be dismissed, and it cannot be topped because things like that just didn't happen as a singular event and it's rare to find anything that compares to it since 1964 where a rock band garnered that much of an audience who tuned in at the same time to the same event...based essentially on guitar-based rock and roll music played by four young musicians with no formal training and long hair. It changed things.

The BB's never had such a moment.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 12, 2018, 10:05:24 AM


I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


But, if people aren't being 100% objective and not going by personal preference, then what's the point?   If that were the case, 100% of the votes for each year would go to The Beatles. 



*I* think that's true. Objectively, every year *should* go to the Beatles. Clearly others disagree, sometimes (not always, but sometimes) without enough knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the Beatles catalog (and for all I know maybe even the BB's) to say one way or the other. But personal preference simply mixed with a bit of pulling back and a little objectivity would at least yield somewhat more interesting results and discussions, in my opinion.

In other words, a 100% "personal preference" discussion, in my 23+ years on the internet, will yield less interesting discussions (e.g. "I like *that* more than *that*. The end), and will certainly yield a very predictable "poll result" when the sampling size is small and made up of fans on a *Beach Boys* message board.

Whereas, trying to bring some objectivity will often bring in a need to be more specific and cite the music, lyrics, styles, the context, etc.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: KDS on January 12, 2018, 10:11:17 AM


I think people should bring in whatever they want to this debate/discussion. I personally think simply bringing nothing *but* personal preference defeats the purpose of a discussion on a *Beach Boys* board. I don't think it's difficult to say you like one thing better than the other, but can objectively recognize that the thing you may not like as much is better/higher art, etc.

As a BB fan and scholar, I've probably listened to "MIU Album" more than "Led Zeppelin IV", and because I prefer one band's work over the other such a great deal, in some way I probably *like* MIU more. But it doesn't mean MIU is a better album.


But, if people aren't being 100% objective and not going by personal preference, then what's the point?   If that were the case, 100% of the votes for each year would go to The Beatles. 



*I* think that's true. Objectively, every year *should* go to the Beatles. Clearly others disagree, sometimes (not always, but sometimes) without enough knowledge of the ins-and-outs of the Beatles catalog (and for all I know maybe even the BB's) to say one way or the other. But personal preference simply mixed with a bit of pulling back and a little objectivity would at least yield somewhat more interesting results and discussions, in my opinion.

In other words, a 100% "personal preference" discussion, in my 23+ years on the internet, will yield less interesting discussions (e.g. "I like *that* more than *that*. The end), and will certainly yield a very predictable "poll result" when the sampling size is small and made up of fans on a *Beach Boys* message board.

Whereas, trying to bring some objectivity will often bring in a need to be more specific and cite the music, lyrics, styles, the context, etc.


I get that, but sometimes this type of poll can be interesting to hear fans' personal experience of why they prefer Band A to Band B.   


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on January 12, 2018, 10:26:23 AM
I brought up Love Me Do since Ten Little Indians was brought up in this thread. They were both released in their respective countries around the same time in the latter part of 1962. Think we can all agree that both groups improved their lyrics greatly over the next two years.

Who's more innovative in 1964? What's cooler- the feedback opening to I Feel Fine, or the intro to Wendy? (When younger I felt one way, now I feel differently) I think the Beach Boys were already doing things other rock/pop groups hadn't done. The Beatles would quickly catch up and, shall I say, surpass them?


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 12, 2018, 11:49:48 AM
I brought up Love Me Do since Ten Little Indians was brought up in this thread. They were both released in their respective countries around the same time in the latter part of 1962. Think we can all agree that both groups improved their lyrics greatly over the next two years.

Who's more innovative in 1964? What's cooler- the feedback opening to I Feel Fine, or the intro to Wendy? (When younger I felt one way, now I feel differently) I think the Beach Boys were already doing things other rock/pop groups hadn't done. The Beatles would quickly catch up and, shall I say, surpass them?

I dunno, what's "cooler" is pretty darn subjective. I'd say the feedback intro to "I Feel Fine" was much more unique (revolutionary, whatever word we want to use for "rarely or never done before") and ear-catching than the four-plunked-notes intro to "Wendy."

I don't think the Beatles ever needed to catch up to the BBs. It was almost always the other way around "Girl Don't Tell Me" (which I LOVE) is an almost Rutles-level knock-off of "Ticket to Ride." The Beatles *never* did anything like that with BB material, with I guess the arguable exception of "Back in the USSR", which was recorded at a stage where the "race" as such was over between the two bands unfortunately. It was the *BBs* recording *multiple* Beatles covers for the "Party" album. By the end of '65, the Beatles had given up recording cover versions *at all*, and certainly never covered the BBs.

Brian (and the other BBs) almost undoubtedly listened to *everything* the Beatles put out. I doubt the Beatles did the same with the BBs. McCartney maybe, and even then I doubt he was spinning every single and album Brian made.

I'd say there was a *very brief* moment when Brian was working on "Surf's Up" that he may have, if you slow the tape down and look at the replay so to speak, passed the Beatles. Which is a HUGE deal.

There's no question that the Beatles and more specifically McCartney regarded Brian Wilson as one of their *very few* peers in the business. But they weren't chasing the BBs. McCartney was digging on PS, no question. But they weren't "chasing" Brian. They weren't, as some ridiculous conspiracy theories have suggested, listened to purloined "Smile" tapes provided by Derek Taylor, etc.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Ram4 on January 12, 2018, 12:35:17 PM
Great post Hey Jude.  I'll add to that by saying I am sure neither Lennon or McCartney pulled to the side of the road when they heard Good Vibrations and declared the race over.  Sure they were impressed with Pet Sounds and GV big time (even Lennon said he loved The Little Girl I Once Knew), but that just stoked their creative fires even more and since their songwriting was somewhat of a friendly rivalry, they were used to stepping it up as a challenge.  When Strawberry Fields Forever or A Day In The Life were first heard by Brian, it seemed like he felt competing at that level was a non-winnable situation (but of course he still could if he wanted to).

At the end of the day it was Brian Wilson vs Lennon/McCartney (as he really didn't have a full blown equal songwriting partner) AND George Martin (as he was the producer and arranger).  That's a lot of pressure to put on someone, let alone someone as fragile as Brian.  He still did a hell of a job delivering the goods.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: HeyJude on January 12, 2018, 12:55:24 PM
Brian did indeed take on a huge burden. However, I'm not a fan of the contention that it was Brian alone versus Lennon, McCartney, and Martin. This tends to slightly overemphasize Martin's role (he was absolutely important, no question, but especially as the years wore on he took direction *from* the band more than gave it; he was a facilitator while in later years McCartney was arguably the band's producer), and downplays the help Brian did have.

Namely, a stream of co-writers (Mike Love, Gary Usher, Roger Christian, Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks), and oodles of session musicians in the key 66-67 timeframe.

*And*, while the 65/66 tour schedule the Beatles undertook was not insane, Lennon and McCartney did go out on the road while also writing Rubber Soul, Revolver, etc. Look at that Beatles "Day by Day" book by Lewisohn. I'd wager especially through late 1966, Lennon and McCartney had fewer days "off" than Brian Wilson did.

As a sidenote, interestingly I've heard that McCartney is on record *not* being a huge fan of "Good Vibrations."


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: NOLA BB Fan on January 12, 2018, 03:38:14 PM
Strawberry Fields? Good Vibrations? Getting a little ahead, yes?

In 1964 the Beatles certainly didn't look over their shoulders at the Beach Boys. They might not even been aware of them - Don't know when they started to be popular in the UK. The Beach Boys had no choice but to look over their shoulders, as Capitol was all but kicking them to the curb. I'm sure Murry gave them one of his "You need to fight for success" speeches.

On a long drive home today, was listening to the Beatles channel. All weekend will feature Billy Joel spinning the US versions of the albums. I enjoyed myself singing along to Meet the Beatles and the Beatles Second Album (through She Loves You)


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Lonely Summer on January 12, 2018, 09:48:11 PM
Strawberry Fields? Good Vibrations? Getting a little ahead, yes?

In 1964 the Beatles certainly didn't look over their shoulders at the Beach Boys. They might not even been aware of them - Don't know when they started to be popular in the UK. The Beach Boys had no choice but to look over their shoulders, as Capitol was all but kicking them to the curb. I'm sure Murry gave them one of his "You need to fight for success" speeches.

On a long drive home today, was listening to the Beatles channel. All weekend will feature Billy Joel spinning the US versions of the albums. I enjoyed myself singing along to Meet the Beatles and the Beatles Second Album (through She Loves You)
It will always be the US albums for me. Grew up with them, those songs in that order are ingrained in my brain. Anything else feels like a nice comp.


Title: Re: 1964: The Beach Boys vs. The Beatles
Post by: Watamushi(Polly Poller) on January 13, 2018, 12:04:57 AM
Result:

The Beach Boys 11 votes

The Beatles 23 votes

The winner of 1964 is The Beatles.