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Author Topic: Can "Summer in Paradise" be salvaged?  (Read 7843 times)
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« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2018, 11:59:34 AM »

I've been listening to the '85 album a lot lately randomly, and it has grown on me over the years.

Despite the band's huge dip into digital recording and a lot of digital instrumentation, the album actually has some warmth to it, much more so than SC or SIP. There are still moments where the production is silly and over the top even after all these years (e.g. "Crack at Your Love"), but overall it has aged better over time.

More importantly, I think some of the BB '85 songs are better. Brian's songs are ironically among the weakest. But Carl's songs are solid compositions, and I think even something like "Passing Friend" is catchy, and stuff like that one and "I Do Love You" allow the band to spread out ever-so-slightly into something a tiny bit outside of their wheelhouse.  

Years ago, before I actually bothered to look at the writing credits, I assumed Getcha Back was a Brian song, and that California Calling was surely a Mike Love penned song. When I found out Brian co-wrote the latter with Al I was thrown for a loop. I agree his songs are the weakest, but I do have a soft spot for ‘I’m So Lonely’....though I wish Carl had done the falsetto on the chorus.

But anywho, agreed fully about the album, sometimes its cheesy, but it’s overall warm and well done.

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.
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« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2018, 12:07:22 PM »

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!
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« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2018, 12:09:00 PM »

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!

Yeah, I think the melody and chords are catchy, but the lyrics are something you’d find on SIP haha. That being said it has grown on me considerably throughout the years.
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« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2018, 12:17:30 PM »

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!

That "totally rad" lyric is pretty bad, and really dates the song.   But, they also used plenty of slang in their early hits (granted, they weren't in their 40s). 
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« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2018, 12:22:40 PM »

I think it would be amazing if Mike and his guys (or even some of the BBs) to re-record some of the better songs from this album, as well as other ML songs (which we know are out there --- 4/4 BIG SUR!) Mike's album (even the BBs re-records) would have been really good if there was no autotune! So.... go through with the plan I stated above, and this time better production! I would love that.
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« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2018, 12:26:59 PM »

I think it would be amazing if Mike and his guys (or even some of the BBs) to re-record some of the better songs from this album, as well as other ML songs (which we know are out there --- 4/4 BIG SUR!) Mike's album (even the BBs re-records) would have been really good if there was no autotune! So.... go through with the plan I stated above, and this time better production! I would love that.

I'd be OK with that if, and only if, he hired an outside producer.  It doesn't have to be a huge name like a Rick Rubin or Bob Ezrin, just somebody who would know better not to release anything that sounds like what UTL sounded like vocally. 

But, to be honest, if there's any product with Mike's name on it, I'd rather see his previous solo albums get released onto CD. 
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« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2018, 12:28:02 PM »

The lyrics to "California Calling" are boring and occasionally abysmal. I recall there's a rough mix of the song with Al singing more (or all) of the lead vocal, and I can't recall whether any of those lyrics were different.

I don't think there's much of a song there, either. It's not awful, it's just tired and clichéd and more of what we had heard from them before. It's a pretty similar track to Al's remake of "School Days" in terms of tempo and general vibe.

When I listen to the '85 album, the tracks I find myself enjoying more and listening to the most are:

It's Gettin' Late
Maybe I Don't Know
Passing Friend
Where I Belong
I Do Love You

GREAT Carl leads on those tracks. *That's* the sort of stuff he should have put on his solo albums.

"Crack at Your Love" has a decent song (nothing major, but a few nice changes) buried under goofy production, a dumb song title that's just begging to be made fun of, and pretty awful lyrics (and a weirdly stilted lead from Al, who otherwise sounds good vocally on the album, like his counterpoint on "Where I Belong"). Brian's bored/lamenting bridge lead on "Crack at Your Love" inadvertently actually kind of works. Some nice group backing vocals buried under there as well, as is the case throughout the album (even if some are run through a synthesizer).

"Getcha Back" is fine, but it is a ripoff of "Don't Worry Baby" (listen to how seamlessly they move between the two songs during the 25th anniversary TV special medley), and the recording sounds unfinished, almost like an elaborate demo.

"She Believes in Love Again" has a nice Carl lead on the choruses. Bruce sounds weirdly raspy. Generic ballad, but inoffensive I suppose.

"I'm So Lonely" is the better of the two Brian-centric songs on the main 10-song album. One nice slightly ear-catching chord in the changes, and as with "Crack....", a kind of deadened-sounding Brian lead that's actually effective to some degree.

"It's Just a Matter of Time" is pretty banal, and is a rewrite of "This Boy" (or 50 million other songs with that doo-wop chord progression).

"Male Ego" is the "Message Man" of this album, a weird eccentric slice of Brian that has to be appreciated at least on that level. Mike using his "male ego" literally to the song's advantage. As self-mocking as the song *maybe* was intended, it's still a pretty douchey lyric.
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« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2018, 12:29:42 PM »

I think it would be amazing if Mike and his guys (or even some of the BBs) to re-record some of the better songs from this album, as well as other ML songs (which we know are out there --- 4/4 BIG SUR!) Mike's album (even the BBs re-records) would have been really good if there was no autotune! So.... go through with the plan I stated above, and this time better production! I would love that.

Well, Mike is unlikely to stray from the autotune, and frankly I don't think any of these guys need to be covering songs anymore, and certainly not  *their own* songs. Raid the vaults, remix the old tracks. Nobody is going to sound *better* re-recording old BB tracks, whether it's a classic or stuff from SIP. Apart from Al, everybody else's voice is markedly worse than it was even in 1992.
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« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2018, 12:31:50 PM »

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!

That "totally rad" lyric is pretty bad, and really dates the song.   But, they also used plenty of slang in their early hits (granted, they weren't in their 40s).  

It would be interesting to know when that lyric was added. Al and some of the guys cut an early version of "California Calling" at Rumbo (I believe) in late 1982 around the same time they first cut "California Dreamin'" (That late '82 version was the version released on the 1983 "Rock and Roll City" album).
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« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2018, 12:33:34 PM »

I think it would be amazing if Mike and his guys (or even some of the BBs) to re-record some of the better songs from this album, as well as other ML songs (which we know are out there --- 4/4 BIG SUR!) Mike's album (even the BBs re-records) would have been really good if there was no autotune! So.... go through with the plan I stated above, and this time better production! I would love that.

I'd be OK with that if, and only if, he hired an outside producer.  It doesn't have to be a huge name like a Rick Rubin or Bob Ezrin, just somebody who would know better not to release anything that sounds like what UTL sounded like vocally. 

But, to be honest, if there's any product with Mike's name on it, I'd rather see his previous solo albums get released onto CD. 

I'm not trying to Mike-bash, honestly, but he *does* have a (well-deserved) bad reputation in the industry to some degree. I don't think a ton of even b-list producers are interested in working with him.

And, I would guess Mike "economy class" Love probably also wouldn't want to pay a ton for a good producer.
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« Reply #35 on: January 09, 2018, 12:35:59 PM »

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!

That "totally rad" lyric is pretty bad, and really dates the song.   But, they also used plenty of slang in their early hits (granted, they weren't in their 40s). 

It would interesting to know when that lyric was added. Al and some of the guys cut an early version of "California Calling" at Rumbo (I believe) in late 1982 around the same time they first cut "California Dreamin'" (That late '82 version was the version released on the 1983 "Rock and Roll City" album).

I think CC is just a fun song. 

On Passing Friend, that's a song that tends to get bashed a lot, but I think that has a lot to do with the run time.   I think it would do better at three and a half minutes.  The five+ minute version overstays its welcome
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« Reply #36 on: January 09, 2018, 12:37:34 PM »

"Passing Friend" is admittedly a self-ripoff of the Culture Club track "Miss Me Blind" (I wasn't aware of this until someone more familiar with the Culture Club catalog heard me play "Passing Friend" and could already tell it was a Culture Club song).
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« Reply #37 on: January 09, 2018, 12:38:44 PM »

Paley stuff and the C50 album are what the BBs should sound like these days. Mike sounded great on that stuff....
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« Reply #38 on: January 09, 2018, 12:39:07 PM »

"Passing Friend" is admittedly a self-ripoff of the Culture Club track "Miss Me Blind" (I wasn't aware of this until someone more familiar with the Culture Club catalog heard me play "Passing Friend" and could already tell it was a Culture Club song).

Sort of bizarre that The Beach Boys were enlisting help from members of Culture Club.  

But, then again, Pink Floyd got some help from a member of The Dream Academy on their later work.
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« Reply #39 on: January 09, 2018, 12:40:54 PM »

"Passing Friend" is admittedly a self-ripoff of the Culture Club track "Miss Me Blind" (I wasn't aware of this until someone more familiar with the Culture Club catalog heard me play "Passing Friend" and could already tell it was a Culture Club song).

Sort of bizarre that The Beach Boys were enlisting help from members of Culture Club.  

But, then again, Pink Floyd got some help from a member of The Dream Academy on their later work.

I think the obvious answer on that is that the Culture Club outtake came through producer Steve Levine, who was working with them at this same time. I don't think any member of the BBs sought it out. Similarly, I'm guessing it was Levine who brought in Gary Moore to do some guitar shredding, etc.
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« Reply #40 on: January 09, 2018, 12:47:35 PM »

"Passing Friend" is admittedly a self-ripoff of the Culture Club track "Miss Me Blind" (I wasn't aware of this until someone more familiar with the Culture Club catalog heard me play "Passing Friend" and could already tell it was a Culture Club song).

Sort of bizarre that The Beach Boys were enlisting help from members of Culture Club.  

But, then again, Pink Floyd got some help from a member of The Dream Academy on their later work.

I think the obvious answer on that is that the Culture Club outtake came through producer Steve Levine, who was working with them at this same time. I don't think any member of the BBs sought it out. Similarly, I'm guessing it was Levine who brought in Gary Moore to do some guitar shredding, etc.

Its debatable whether or not The Beach Boys were even aware of The Culture Club, but either way there are some Culture Club songwriting credits. 

I keep forgetting Gary Moore appeared on BB85.  I should remember that, as that kind of guitar work is largely absent in BB work.
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« Reply #41 on: January 09, 2018, 02:14:19 PM »

I didn't know about the '82 California Dreamin'. All I have is the one on Made in USA. Is the '82 available on any BB comp? Never heard of the Rock and Roll City OST, either.
I think there may be a few stray tracks like that which I haven't mopped up.
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« Reply #42 on: January 09, 2018, 02:26:36 PM »

I didn't know about the '82 California Dreamin'. All I have is the one on Made in USA. Is the '82 available on any BB comp? Never heard of the Rock and Roll City OST, either.
I think there may be a few stray tracks like that which I haven't mopped up.

The original version of "California Dreamin'" was recorded in late 1982 and included on the cassette-only compilation "Rock and Roll City" in 1983 (it was the only BB track; there were several other Mike Love and Dean tracks).

This version was used as the basis for the 1986 version. The 1983 version has Mike singing the first verse instead of Al, has a synthesizer solo (with some flamenco-ish acoustic guitar underneath it) instead of the 12-string electric guitar, Carl is still singing the same second verse but it was re-recorded for the '86 version, and there were various other touches making the '86 version a bit more reverb-laden, etc. The drums in '86 were either noticeably EQ'ed different or were partially or fully re-recorded. There are also more backing vocals on the '86 version. The 1983 version also has a different acoustic guitar intro.
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« Reply #43 on: January 09, 2018, 02:29:56 PM »

I didn't know about the '82 California Dreamin'. All I have is the one on Made in USA. Is the '82 available on any BB comp? Never heard of the Rock and Roll City OST, either.
I think there may be a few stray tracks like that which I haven't mopped up.

The original version of "California Dreamin'" was recorded in late 1982 and included on the cassette-only compilation "Rock and Roll City" in 1983 (it was the only BB track; there were several other Mike Love and Dean tracks).

This version was used as the basis for the 1986 version. The 1983 version has Mike singing the first verse instead of Al, has a synthesizer solo instead of the 12-string guitar, Carl is still singing the same second verse but it was re-recorded for the '86 version, and there were various other touches making the '86 version a bit more reverb-laden, etc. The drums in '86 were either noticeably EQ'ed different or were partially or fully re-recorded. There are also more backing vocals on the '86 version.

Thanks, HeyJude. I've yet to hear Rock and Roll City. Is Da Doo Ron Ron largely the same as what we got on MiC? Just with a Mike lead, perhaps?
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« Reply #44 on: January 09, 2018, 02:34:09 PM »

"Passing Friend" is admittedly a self-ripoff of the Culture Club track "Miss Me Blind" (I wasn't aware of this until someone more familiar with the Culture Club catalog heard me play "Passing Friend" and could already tell it was a Culture Club song).

Sort of bizarre that The Beach Boys were enlisting help from members of Culture Club.  

But, then again, Pink Floyd got some help from a member of The Dream Academy on their later work.

I think the obvious answer on that is that the Culture Club outtake came through producer Steve Levine, who was working with them at this same time. I don't think any member of the BBs sought it out. Similarly, I'm guessing it was Levine who brought in Gary Moore to do some guitar shredding, etc.

Its debatable whether or not The Beach Boys were even aware of The Culture Club, but either way there are some Culture Club songwriting credits. 

I keep forgetting Gary Moore appeared on BB85.  I should remember that, as that kind of guitar work is largely absent in BB work.

The BBs would have been living in a pretty epic vacuum to not even know who Boy George was in 1985. But I'm sure the one Culture Club-penned track on the '85 album came through Steve Levine, and almost surely was instigated by Levine. I guess we can't know for sure. I guess it's not impossible that, say, Carl was in the studio and said "Hey Steve, you work with Culture Club, do they have any songs they'd like us to record?"

It's still unclear how many outtakes exist from the '85 project as well. We know of "At the Hop" of course, which was apparently jettisoned very late in the game. There are a bunch of alternate mixes/performances floating around. They may have worked on Brian's "Oh Lord" and Al's "And I Always Will." Brian may have worked on "Water Builds Up", and they may have also worked on Carl's (?) "Down by the Pier."

Carl reported in a circa 1986 interview that he was still writing with Robert White Johnson, so there may be more of that stuff.
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« Reply #45 on: January 09, 2018, 02:36:40 PM »

I didn't know about the '82 California Dreamin'. All I have is the one on Made in USA. Is the '82 available on any BB comp? Never heard of the Rock and Roll City OST, either.
I think there may be a few stray tracks like that which I haven't mopped up.

The original version of "California Dreamin'" was recorded in late 1982 and included on the cassette-only compilation "Rock and Roll City" in 1983 (it was the only BB track; there were several other Mike Love and Dean tracks).

This version was used as the basis for the 1986 version. The 1983 version has Mike singing the first verse instead of Al, has a synthesizer solo instead of the 12-string guitar, Carl is still singing the same second verse but it was re-recorded for the '86 version, and there were various other touches making the '86 version a bit more reverb-laden, etc. The drums in '86 were either noticeably EQ'ed different or were partially or fully re-recorded. There are also more backing vocals on the '86 version.

Thanks, HeyJude. I've yet to hear Rock and Roll City. Is Da Doo Ron Ron largely the same as what we got on MiC? Just with a Mike lead, perhaps?

All that "Rock and Roll City" stuff used to be on YouTube, but it may be gone now.

Mike's take on "Da Doo Ron Ron" on that album was totally different from the BBs KTSA outtake. Most of the Mike/Dean, etc. tracks on "Rock and Roll City" have a cheap, rinky keyboard/drum machine sort of sound.
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« Reply #46 on: January 09, 2018, 03:53:01 PM »

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!

Lyrics aren't that important to me unless they're so bad that they're distracting, but the whole thing sounds like  a Beach Boys cover band that has never actually listened to their music. I actually really dig BB 85 but always skip over this track, Crack at your Love, I'm So Lonely, and Just a Matter of Time.
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« Reply #47 on: January 10, 2018, 02:12:10 PM »

If I were Mike, I'd remix the damn thing, even if it had to be for my own money.

What the world needs is definitely another remix.  They should keep remixing and re-releasing the album until one sticks!
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« Reply #48 on: January 10, 2018, 02:25:59 PM »

If I were Mike, I'd remix the damn thing, even if it had to be for my own money.

What the world needs is definitely another remix.  They should keep remixing and re-releasing the album until one sticks!

Makes me wonder if there’s some alternate universe where SIP was a monstrous hit, catapulting The Beach Boys and anything they touched to 90s fame...Full House gets an extra 10 seasons, Mike Love marries Baywatch star Pamela Anderson. American pop culture is forever changed by this album. Absurd, but I wonder if Mike ever thought SIP had the potential to be a high charting album.
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« Reply #49 on: January 10, 2018, 02:37:11 PM »

I'd volunteer to 'tinkle' on it if anyone else agrees that THAT would help it out  some.  Let me know when to start 'holding it'.  Gotta save up an impressive flow to really make it work. Cool Guy
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