The Smiley Smile Message Board

The UK version was already an improvement, and the vocals on the album are pretty good. I believe there's an album hidden in that train wreck. If I were Mike, I'd remix the damn thing, even if it had to be for my own money. Mike can afford it, and the label, whichever it was, ought to distribute it. But, Mike's a proud and stubborn fellow, "Looking Back With Love" is still missing on CD.

Realistically, what would it cost to book a studio and a good drummer? That's all it takes. Wipe the old drum track and you're good. Who should he choose as drummer? Hal Blaine would be too old. Is he even alive?

Mike and BRI have got nothing to lose. As it is, it is OOP and out of mind. They have all but dissociated themselves from it, it is an embarrassment to them.

(http://images.coveralia.com/audio/t/The_Beach_Boys-Summer_In_Paradise-Trasera.jpg)

Considering how much of Unleash the Love sounds, I wouldn't trust Mike with any kind of redux of Summer in Paradise.   

Plus, no amount of remastering can save Summer of Love, Surfin 92, Remember Walking in the Sand, and Under the Boardwalk. 

I don't know how the album was produced, but maybe some ace producer / engineer could take the masters and make them sound better.  I've always said there's about half a good album hiding underneath.  But, at this point, I highly doubt, that anyone would devote the time to it. 

Setting aside the technical issues (I honestly don't know if BRI still has the multi-track ProTools files on this thing, or if they'd still even be playable; but hopefully one would think they backed up the mulittracks on DAT or something), nothing would really be saved.

It could be made a bit better. It would need more than a remix. First and foremost, it would need newly-recorded real drums.

Everything would have to have as much of the awful, shrill digital processing removed as possible, especially the vocals.

If there are some high quality, dry vocal and instrumental stems to work with, something that at least sonically grates on the ears less could be achieved.

But the songs would still suck. I'd love to hear "Strange Things Happen" and "Lahaina Aloha" with new, real drums, and a dry, less compressed and processed mix. But that's about it.

No

Right, SB. Leave it alone and let this abomination wither away as it has done since it's dismal release. Let it be a reminder to all what myKe luHv thinks is good enough to unleash on the public. It's proof positive that he's a hacker of the highest degree who should be forever ignored.

Hypehat's review of SIP is legendary:

Ok, so I have a half a bottle of wine in me and another to go after a steady day of drinking, and listening to Summer In Paradise seems like a fantastic idea right now. It's been so hard to live without it, so lets talk about it.

1) Hot Fun In The Summertime

DEAR JESUS THE SNARE. We will have to get used to this.
Also, "Whisperin'" Mike Love. I like to picture putting HOURS into these leads.
Carl telling me we can "Bum bum bum" is kinda flattering imo.
SAX SOLO. Those breaks make me flinch.
This thing is mixed so fucking terribly Carl's high notes vanish from the mix.
also, WHAT THE HELL IS CARL DOING. I guess given Beckley/Lamm/Wilson, it's safe to say that absolutely every vestige of Carl's taste had disappeared by this point. He might have even thought this was A GOOD IDEA.

2. Surfin'

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
f*** me, the vocals on this are absolutely terrrrrrrrrrible. NASAL DOMINATION. Carl being SHITE. Like, even his smack-addled late 70's performances have merit. This sucks.
Not to mention ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THIS.
new lyrics. NEW LYRICS
MORE OF THEM.
I'm in pain. There are ten more songs. WHY.

3. SUMMER OF LOVE.

Mike Love, I will come round your house and make my fist meditate up your arse for this.
CHRIST ON A BICYCLE THE DJ SCRATCHES.
My Grandma has better flow than MC "Whisperin" Love.
attached and back don't rhyme, you bald apple juice chuggin goon.

4. Island Fever

These verse appear to be words in the english language. But they make no sense.
The Beach Boys' hymn to sexually transmitted diseases?
"My baby caught it and I'm not quite sure how/she might have got it from her travel brochure?" - Denny lives?
My baby can't dance or sleep because IT BURNS.
KEYCHANGE
f*** synthesisers, btw.


5. Still Surfin'

What the hell is this.
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS.
The fact I've spent a lot of time editing other things during this song speaks volumes.
What the hell makes ANYONE think it's ok to drop mexican terms for women in verses. Mamacita and the like. f*** YOU, MIKE.

6. Slow Summer Dancin' (Unneccesary parentheses)

IN BOTH CORNERS, BRUCE JOHNSTON
DETAILING HOW HE'S GONNA MAKE SWEET, SWEET, SWEET LOVE TO GROUPIES.
Misheard "I'll treat my angel really nice" as "I'll treat my ANUS.....REALLY NICE!"
Al "The Songwriter" Jardine keeping up his fine, fine, tradition of contributing entirely original melodic and lyrical ideas to songs. HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT
That sax break. NO.

7. Strange Things Happen.

Ok, this is the worst thing so far.

It's something to do with the combination of SLAMMIN' MIKE LOVE JAMS and Al "Well, that never happened before!" Jardine learning about sex in 1991.

OH MY GOD. This is so so so s oo soooooo awful. I am crying with laughter.

8. Remember (Walking In The Sand)

Carl, I do love you, but when Mary Weiss dies she's going to find you in heaven and BEAT SEVEN SHADES OF CRAP OUT OF YOU FOR THIS.

"Echoing" Mike Love is also particularly ridiculous.

THE SAX SOLOS. AHSHGSHDGFXBGDGXFNJDMKYI6


GUYS I'M LOSING THE WILL TO LIVE. I HATE THIS ALBUM.

9. Lahina Aloha

Tropical beats
meaningless title
SOOOOOLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
palm trees
paradise
"Whisperin" Love

the f*** is this DRIVEL. I FEEL LIKE I'M BEING VIOLATED WITH OFFENSIVE ITEMS CARVED OUT OF JELLY OR SOMETHING. OFFENSIVE SMOOTHNESS. It's some terrible oxymoron i wouldn't believe possible if it wasn't fucking me in my ears.
THE HELL.

THREE MORE TRACKS LEFT, YOU CAN DO IT.

10. Under The Boardwalk

MIke Love, you get the f*** away from my girl.
Carl, I'm sorry, but The Drifters are also going to beat the hell out of you up there too. Possibly Carole King as well. At least they'll be tired after beating mike love to shreds. And you, Al.
ANOTHER SAXOPHONE SOLO. mo'fos.

As an aside, guys, this is one of the most awful albums in terms of production, mixing and mastering I've ever heard. IT IS THIN AS HELL.

11. SUMMER IN PARADISE.

dig that jangly fauxbyrds guitar.
THOSE 'HARMONY' VOCALS ARE CRAP. BRIAN WOULD BEAT YOU DEAD IF HE WAS IN THAT SESSION.
I think these might be EVEN WORSE LYRICS than Strange Things Happen or MC LOVE in something else.
f***, IT'S JIM MCGUINN.
that explains the guitar.
YOU BITCH, MCGUINN.

This is shite. musically, aurally, it's balls. BALLLLLLS. BIG SWEATY, HAIRY, OOZING TESTICLES. I feel ill.

12. Stamorever.

I have no more bile. I just have wine. After the systematic and calculated raping of the entire spectrum of pop music through these twelve tracks, some arsehole covering a Dennis Wilson song pales in comparison. I mean, it even has woodblocks on it, which makes it more reverent of a 'classic' bb's sound than anything on this record yet.

SEE WHAT THIS RECORD HAS DONE TO ME. I AM DEFENDING STAMOS



and with one fucking horrible sounding fake midi chord on the keyboard, that's it. The worst record I ever heard.

Okay, lets say you ditch everything except for the vocals. You’re still left with a trashheap of laughable lyrics, and really bad harmony stylings. And no amount of Wrecking Crew style instrumentals could ever erase the horrendous sonic disaster known as Mike Love making an embarrassing attempt at rap.

Do you ever get the feelin' that you got to get away
It's a sympton of the fever all across the U. S. A.
My family doctor told me "son the flu is what you have"
But I know it's island fever and I got it real bad

My baby caught it and I'm not quite sure how
(Oooo I got it bad) I got the island fever
She might have got it from her travel brochure now
(Oooo I got it bad)
-Island Fever

Yeah i'll take you to the movies
But i'm no fool (wah wah oooo)
First i'll get you on the beach
Or in a swimming pool
Doing unto others is the golden rule
But doing it with you would be so
Very cool
-Summer of Love

He doesn't do a whole lot with his law degree
They thought about a major oceanography
But he does a lot of thinkin' 'bout how to save the sea
-Still Surfin’

Need I even mention what John Stamos did to one of Dennis’ most touching songs? Apart from dumping the master tapes in the garbage, no amount of restoration would ever make that cover not wreak of pure Limburger cheese.

I once had an ear infection that swelled up half of my head, it was excruciating pain, and the treatment felt just as awful. Yet listening to SIP is still the worst thing that has ever happened to my ears. I would feel so bad for this band as a whole if any monetary resources went to attempting a futile salvaging of this record. Give the money to charity...heck, burn the money if you must, but don’t put a spotlight on a record that no one even bought in the first place.

Frankly, I don't really get the hate behind the remake of Forever.  Is it as good as the Sunflower original??  Absolutely not.  But, people talk about it like it's Do It Again '17 (which is unlistenable). 

But, I don't think many posters here appreciate power ballads like I do, so that could be a reason.

I’m all about some power ballads - years ago Guns N Roses used to be one of my favorite bands, and I can shamefully admit I blared some Whitesnake on my stereo. But turning a really sentimental Dennis Wilson song into an early 90s poor attempt at a power ballad just isn’t my cup of tea.

I think my main problem with it is that Dennis Wilson had passed on years prior, and here Stamos is turning one of his most touching songs into a cheesy prop on a sitcom show, then re-recording it (in a really untasteful style for the song) for a Beach Boys album....not even a solo venture but a Beach Boys album. As someone said here years ago, Dennis probably would’ve kicked John’s ass if he attempted this if he was still alive.

Fair points, but I think Dennis may have also appreciated the fact that the sitcom shone a light on the song Forever, which unfairly, wasn't as well know as it could be. 

And, there's absolute zero shame in blaring Whitesnake.  The day I stop blaring Whitesnake, please just take me off this physical plane of existence. 

Well, I actually think Summer of Love is fun and I love the drum sounds on the album. Why do some people want everything to sound like Pet Sounds or Sunflower? SIP is not a masterpiece, nor it's meant to sound like one. It's just a corny, cheesy and (partly) horrible album. I can't stand that Forever cover. But overall the album has it's charm - and those cheesy drums are a huge part of it.

I would quite happily re-record the drum and percussion parts AND redo the lead vocal on Forever

 :lol  :lol

Okay, here's my retraction. I concede there's not a whole album hidden there, some of the examples of lyrics posted here are really indefensible, or laughable at best. How about an EP, then. Or a maxi single?   >:D I'll have to go back and listen aqain. Sometimes I let years pass between listens, so much other stuff to cycle through as well. Also, I never really listen intently to lyrics; so long as it flows and is sung well, that's always been my main concern.

The problem is that the only person willing to touch this collection is Mike Love, and as KDS pointed out above, Unleash the Love is a huge reason why Mike shouldn’t go anywhere near re-mixing an album.

After listening to Unleash the Love I’m confident in saying that Mike could actually make SIP sound worse. I can see him in the studio booth really bobbin his head to ‘Summer of Love’, then a lightbulb goes off and he proudly announces the only problem with SIP is that there’s no autotune on the tracks...oh, and lets throw in Mark McGrath to do some “Do it!” overdubs on ‘Forever’.

I can admit, Carl sounds angelic on this album. But Carl could also sing the words on the back of a Clorox bottle and it’d sound beautiful. Doesn’t mean there’s any content behind what’s being sung. Personally, I think the best part of this album already got its due on the MiC boxset with the inclusion of the live version of ‘Summer in Paradise’. That’s probably the only song salvageable and that live version is probably the best it will ever sound.

Stamos could do it.  Stamos.

The live version of the title track is pretty good.  I wouldn't mind hearing more live cuts from the album get released, but unless there's a live anthology or another career spanning boxset in the works, it's probably pretty unlikely.  

Saying the drums sound like garbage on SIP has nothing to do with "Pet Sounds" or "Sunflower" (for the record, for very different reasons than SIP, I have very mixed feelings about the drums on BB records going all the way back to the 60s, another discussion for another time).

The SIP drums aren't even quaint, nostalgic 80s cheesy drums like those found on the '85 album. They're bad samples, programmed/performed poorly and stiffly. "Maybe I Don't Know" from the '85 album sounds like John Bonham compared to the power behind those SIP drums. They have no low end. They're shrill. It's mostly due to the poor electronic programming and technology used, and also I'm sure SIP also sounds shrill and thin overall because of poor mixing and mastering decisions. The likely lack of higher resolution at the recording source on that Beta version of ProTools probably didn't help either.

Guess what else sounds very similar in sound to SIP? The actual track "Still Cruisin'", also produced and co-written by Terry Melcher, and also using awful electronic drum samples.

It has often been said that SIP seemed to be made based on the idea of making a whole album of "Kokomos", but if you want to find the blueprint for SIP, it's in the recording of "Still Cruisin'."

Compare that to "Somewhere Near Japan", which itself is no audiophile masterpiece either. But SNJ sounds like it has real drums. Even with still somewhat thin/shrill mixing and mastering, it sounds much better production-wise. So if Melcher had just used analog gear and real drums, his stuff would have sounded a little better at least.

I honestly wouldn’t mind the release of such live material either. I’m far from a fan of this album, but that live MiC track isn’t bad (I listen to it sometimes), and I’d be curious to see how they handled other material from this album...fully knowing I probably still wouldn’t like it, but it would be interesting to hear.

The Wild Honey era Live tracks recently released give me hope that we’ll see a treasure-trove of live material in the coming years.

I suppose SIP was the least noxious of the songs aired in the live setlist. But nothing from SIP ever sounded that great live. They were already hindered by Mike Kowalski on drums, which really marred most everything. But the band, beyond Mike and maybe Bruce, never seemed enthused about the SIP stuff. Carl and Al seemed bored, and their vocals were always professional, but they performed the SIP stuff as passionless as they did the stuff that they had been doing non-stop for 30+ years.

I've heard all the live SIP tracks, and while I wouldn't oppose their inclusion on a HUGE career-spanning live boxed set, they never were anything noteworthy. Al always sounded bored on "Under the Boardwalk"; Mike sounded weirdly extra nasal and lacking power on "..Boardwalk" and "Hot Fun in the Summertime." The remake of "Surfin'" was ridiculous in any format.

Why *this* was kept in the setlist for multiple years I have no idea:

https://youtu.be/Dn905_69mKk?t=6m1s

I think the Under the Boardwalk cover and Surfin 92 are two of the reasons SIP has the reputation it has.   I'd rather hear live cuts of something like Strange Things Happen or Lahaia Aloha.   

I’m glad you brought up the ‘85 album....I was thinking the same thing. It’s 80s cheese all around, but it’s good sounding 80s cheese...and the songs aren’t half bad on that album either (no mention of law degrees or catching some rare sub-continental pathogen from a travel brochure).

And yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen any fan say they want every album to sound like ‘Sunflower’ or ‘Pet Sounds’. I can appreciate the 80s nostalgia of BB85, the garage band sound of Surfin Safari, I even like the odd sound of MIU, whilst still realizing that SIP is horrendously produced/written/recorded.

Right, BB85 is very much a product of it's time.  But the production / sound of SIP is..........unique. 

I've been listening to the '85 album a lot lately randomly, and it has grown on me over the years.

Despite the band's huge dip into digital recording and a lot of digital instrumentation, the album actually has some warmth to it, much more so than SC or SIP. There are still moments where the production is silly and over the top even after all these years (e.g. "Crack at Your Love"), but overall it has aged better over time.

More importantly, I think some of the BB '85 songs are better. Brian's songs are ironically among the weakest. But Carl's songs are solid compositions, and I think even something like "Passing Friend" is catchy, and stuff like that one and "I Do Love You" allow the band to spread out ever-so-slightly into something a tiny bit outside of their wheelhouse.  

Years ago, before I actually bothered to look at the writing credits, I assumed Getcha Back was a Brian song, and that California Calling was surely a Mike Love penned song. When I found out Brian co-wrote the latter with Al I was thrown for a loop. I agree his songs are the weakest, but I do have a soft spot for ‘I’m So Lonely’....though I wish Carl had done the falsetto on the chorus.

But anywho, agreed fully about the album, sometimes its cheesy, but it’s overall warm and well done.

SIP is a Mike Love solo album....

I think I'm the only person who likes California Calling.

It's just some of the lyrics that distract me. I'd rather not, but, I cringe every time I hear boogie boardin'. Yeah man, TOTALLY rad!

Yeah, I think the melody and chords are catchy, but the lyrics are something you’d find on SIP haha. That being said it has grown on me considerably throughout the years.

That "totally rad" lyric is pretty bad, and really dates the song.   But, they also used plenty of slang in their early hits (granted, they weren't in their 40s). 

I think it would be amazing if Mike and his guys (or even some of the BBs) to re-record some of the better songs from this album, as well as other ML songs (which we know are out there --- 4/4 BIG SUR!) Mike's album (even the BBs re-records) would have been really good if there was no autotune! So.... go through with the plan I stated above, and this time better production! I would love that.

I'd be OK with that if, and only if, he hired an outside producer.  It doesn't have to be a huge name like a Rick Rubin or Bob Ezrin, just somebody who would know better not to release anything that sounds like what UTL sounded like vocally. 

But, to be honest, if there's any product with Mike's name on it, I'd rather see his previous solo albums get released onto CD. 

The lyrics to "California Calling" are boring and occasionally abysmal. I recall there's a rough mix of the song with Al singing more (or all) of the lead vocal, and I can't recall whether any of those lyrics were different.

I don't think there's much of a song there, either. It's not awful, it's just tired and clichéd and more of what we had heard from them before. It's a pretty similar track to Al's remake of "School Days" in terms of tempo and general vibe.

When I listen to the '85 album, the tracks I find myself enjoying more and listening to the most are:

It's Gettin' Late
Maybe I Don't Know
Passing Friend
Where I Belong
I Do Love You

GREAT Carl leads on those tracks. *That's* the sort of stuff he should have put on his solo albums.

"Crack at Your Love" has a decent song (nothing major, but a few nice changes) buried under goofy production, a dumb song title that's just begging to be made fun of, and pretty awful lyrics (and a weirdly stilted lead from Al, who otherwise sounds good vocally on the album, like his counterpoint on "Where I Belong"). Brian's bored/lamenting bridge lead on "Crack at Your Love" inadvertently actually kind of works. Some nice group backing vocals buried under there as well, as is the case throughout the album (even if some are run through a synthesizer).

"Getcha Back" is fine, but it is a ripoff of "Don't Worry Baby" (listen to how seamlessly they move between the two songs during the 25th anniversary TV special medley), and the recording sounds unfinished, almost like an elaborate demo.

"She Believes in Love Again" has a nice Carl lead on the choruses. Bruce sounds weirdly raspy. Generic ballad, but inoffensive I suppose.

"I'm So Lonely" is the better of the two Brian-centric songs on the main 10-song album. One nice slightly ear-catching chord in the changes, and as with "Crack....", a kind of deadened-sounding Brian lead that's actually effective to some degree.

"It's Just a Matter of Time" is pretty banal, and is a rewrite of "This Boy" (or 50 million other songs with that doo-wop chord progression).

"Male Ego" is the "Message Man" of this album, a weird eccentric slice of Brian that has to be appreciated at least on that level. Mike using his "male ego" literally to the song's advantage. As self-mocking as the song *maybe* was intended, it's still a pretty douchey lyric.

Well, Mike is unlikely to stray from the autotune, and frankly I don't think any of these guys need to be covering songs anymore, and certainly not  *their own* songs. Raid the vaults, remix the old tracks. Nobody is going to sound *better* re-recording old BB tracks, whether it's a classic or stuff from SIP. Apart from Al, everybody else's voice is markedly worse than it was even in 1992.

It would be interesting to know when that lyric was added. Al and some of the guys cut an early version of "California Calling" at Rumbo (I believe) in late 1982 around the same time they first cut "California Dreamin'" (That late '82 version was the version released on the 1983 "Rock and Roll City" album).

I'm not trying to Mike-bash, honestly, but he *does* have a (well-deserved) bad reputation in the industry to some degree. I don't think a ton of even b-list producers are interested in working with him.

And, I would guess Mike "economy class" Love probably also wouldn't want to pay a ton for a good producer.

I think CC is just a fun song. 

On Passing Friend, that's a song that tends to get bashed a lot, but I think that has a lot to do with the run time.   I think it would do better at three and a half minutes.  The five+ minute version overstays its welcome

"Passing Friend" is admittedly a self-ripoff of the Culture Club track "Miss Me Blind" (I wasn't aware of this until someone more familiar with the Culture Club catalog heard me play "Passing Friend" and could already tell it was a Culture Club song).

Paley stuff and the C50 album are what the BBs should sound like these days. Mike sounded great on that stuff....

Sort of bizarre that The Beach Boys were enlisting help from members of Culture Club.  

But, then again, Pink Floyd got some help from a member of The Dream Academy on their later work.

I think the obvious answer on that is that the Culture Club outtake came through producer Steve Levine, who was working with them at this same time. I don't think any member of the BBs sought it out. Similarly, I'm guessing it was Levine who brought in Gary Moore to do some guitar shredding, etc.

Its debatable whether or not The Beach Boys were even aware of The Culture Club, but either way there are some Culture Club songwriting credits. 

I keep forgetting Gary Moore appeared on BB85.  I should remember that, as that kind of guitar work is largely absent in BB work.

I didn't know about the '82 California Dreamin'. All I have is the one on Made in USA. Is the '82 available on any BB comp? Never heard of the Rock and Roll City OST, either.
I think there may be a few stray tracks like that which I haven't mopped up.

The original version of "California Dreamin'" was recorded in late 1982 and included on the cassette-only compilation "Rock and Roll City" in 1983 (it was the only BB track; there were several other Mike Love and Dean tracks).

This version was used as the basis for the 1986 version. The 1983 version has Mike singing the first verse instead of Al, has a synthesizer solo (with some flamenco-ish acoustic guitar underneath it) instead of the 12-string electric guitar, Carl is still singing the same second verse but it was re-recorded for the '86 version, and there were various other touches making the '86 version a bit more reverb-laden, etc. The drums in '86 were either noticeably EQ'ed different or were partially or fully re-recorded. There are also more backing vocals on the '86 version. The 1983 version also has a different acoustic guitar intro.

Thanks, HeyJude. I've yet to hear Rock and Roll City. Is Da Doo Ron Ron largely the same as what we got on MiC? Just with a Mike lead, perhaps?

The BBs would have been living in a pretty epic vacuum to not even know who Boy George was in 1985. But I'm sure the one Culture Club-penned track on the '85 album came through Steve Levine, and almost surely was instigated by Levine. I guess we can't know for sure. I guess it's not impossible that, say, Carl was in the studio and said "Hey Steve, you work with Culture Club, do they have any songs they'd like us to record?"

It's still unclear how many outtakes exist from the '85 project as well. We know of "At the Hop" of course, which was apparently jettisoned very late in the game. There are a bunch of alternate mixes/performances floating around. They may have worked on Brian's "Oh Lord" and Al's "And I Always Will." Brian may have worked on "Water Builds Up", and they may have also worked on Carl's (?) "Down by the Pier."

Carl reported in a circa 1986 interview that he was still writing with Robert White Johnson, so there may be more of that stuff.

All that "Rock and Roll City" stuff used to be on YouTube, but it may be gone now.

Mike's take on "Da Doo Ron Ron" on that album was totally different from the BBs KTSA outtake. Most of the Mike/Dean, etc. tracks on "Rock and Roll City" have a cheap, rinky keyboard/drum machine sort of sound.

Lyrics aren't that important to me unless they're so bad that they're distracting, but the whole thing sounds like  a Beach Boys cover band that has never actually listened to their music. I actually really dig BB 85 but always skip over this track, Crack at your Love, I'm So Lonely, and Just a Matter of Time.

What the world needs is definitely another remix.  They should keep remixing and re-releasing the album until one sticks!

Makes me wonder if there’s some alternate universe where SIP was a monstrous hit, catapulting The Beach Boys and anything they touched to 90s fame...Full House gets an extra 10 seasons, Mike Love marries Baywatch star Pamela Anderson. American pop culture is forever changed by this album. Absurd, but I wonder if Mike ever thought SIP had the potential to be a high charting album.

I'd volunteer to 'tinkle' on it if anyone else agrees that THAT would help it out  some.  Let me know when to start 'holding it'.  Gotta save up an impressive flow to really make it work. :hat

A few years back I heard an old British radio interview from when the album came out where Carl said Passing Friend was pretty much a gift from Steve Levine and Boy George. In that same interview he also talked a little bit about Dennis, and just randomly brought up how much Dennis was disappointed with 15 Big Ones.

Add some  :lol

Maybe a total salvage of SIP would be a stretch. However, there have been many discussions on boards over the years regarding the interest in a collection of some of the 80's stuff being complied onto one collection. Some of the Soundtrack cuts, the originals from Still Cruisin'..you could throw a few SIP tracks in there.

I'd love to see a collection like that, but I think it's highly unlikely.......but again, I never predicted we'd ever see a Brian Wilson solo best of collection. 

Meanwhile....HEY!!!...I gotta go!!!

Whatever little appeal this era of recordings has is as a historical artifact ... as such, an updated SIP might sound even worse.

Keepin the Summer Alive was pushing it, BB85 barely listenable (except for the super weak spot I have for "Male Ego"), Still Cruisin' still sounded like "The Beach Boys" but a bad version of them, Summer in Paradise is the absolute worst BB-related release of all time ("Looking Back With Love" is pure gold in comparison) ... just when you thought they couldn't break that record, here comes Stars and Stripes.

I'd rate That's Why God Made the Radio  better than BB85 but not even as good as Keepin the Summer Alive personally. Plus the tour was great, so it kind of makes the whole affair seem more appealing.

Meanwhile, the Paley stuff is still mostly unreleased.

Other than "Male Ego", of this era I think "Living Doll" is fantastic.

I think you really have to separate the *material* (as in, the compositions) from the production.

It's been eons since the BBs had a truly *well-produced* album. TWGMTR would be pretty solid were it not for the autotune. SIP and SC are mostly shrill and thin-sounding.

BB '85 actually sounds pretty good in retrospect, surprisingly. Yes, it's still a bit sterile-sounding. But it does have some warmth, and if nothing else has a unified sound.

Bruce's production on KTSA is pretty flat and dull. Bruce Johnston is not the guy to be producing something like the title track. It sounds totally limp. The live versions sounded better. Even the good compositions like "Goin' On" are hampered by pretty flat, homogenized production. Very big-boxey-sounding drums. Something like "Santa Ana Winds" fares better because it's light and acoustic.

"LA (Light Album)" is somewhat similar. Because several of the recordings began work outside the auspices of Bruce, it isn't as homogenous in terms of production. Some things sound better than others. I'm not bashing Bruce. I *love* his layered vocals on "Full Sail."

Al gets knocked for "MIU Album", but sonically it's not too bad. Kind of undistinguished, but solid. As Al himself has noted, "Come Go With Me" sounds sharper because it was recorded separately in different circumstances.

I'll stop from regressing further, but I think pretty much all the BB albums from a certain point on are hampered to varying degrees by random awful songs, and then sometimes iffy production.

I'm just going to say this outright: A collection of 80's Beach Boys material up to SIP would do the band and its legacy no favors, in fact it could serve to shatter whatever cred the band's name has built up since 1992 on the strength of the back catalog from the 60's and early 70's. Unless Mike can come up with a good line of PR bullshit about how the material got unjustly ignored but the synth sounds and other cheese-filled sonics he offered were ahead of their time and SIP is a concept album that needs to exist alongside Pet Sounds as a concept album, there wouldn't be enough to justify more than a 4 song EP at best to sum up that entire era in terms of the highlights.

So no, SIP can't be salvaged along the lines of the old adages about putting lipstick on a pig or turning chicken sh*t into chicken salad.

I think there are about ten thousand archival releases more important than reissuing the late 80s/90s material, and I certainly don't think it would be a good idea to put out some sort of heavily-promoted curated set of the 80s/90s material as if it's being presented to the public. Save that for a "Sunflower" and "Surf's Up" immersion-style boxed set, etc.

I'd probably be a bit more adamant about getting SC and SIP back in print at least digitally if they weren't pretty darn easy for the people who would or should care (hardcore fans and scholars, etc.) to track the CDs down (or whatever downloads) if they don't already have them.

If they want to put a big giant "Brother Rarities" boxed set with 7 or 8 discs and throw some late 80s/90s stuff in there (more unreleased than previously-released), that could yield some interesting material.

Speaking of the relatively weak production of KTSA... What happened to Bruce as a producer???

The stuff he was producing and arranging in the late 50's-early 60's sounded incredible! Rip Chords, Bruce & Terry, etc... all sounds really great! Rich harmonies and great rocking backing tracks. Those songs were full of life. Stuff like Summer Means Fun and Don't Run Away are definitely on par with what a lot of The Beach Boys were doing.  Hell, even Deirdre, Tears In The Morning, and Disney Girls were really well arranged and produced!   ...And then... Goin' Public. And ever since, we've gotten boring, flat sounding production from Bruce. I just don't get it. Must be his personal taste?

I believe Goin' Public was produced by Gary Usher.

I don't think Bruce was ever a great producer in the same league as other busy, versatile producers.

I think he was a good utilitarian producer for the stuff he did in the 60s.

As someone opined some years ago, it's pretty true that Bruce doesn't really have a rock and roll bone in his body. This really narrows the field for what could possibly work with him as producer. I guess he could have produced stuff that sounded like "Going Public" (even though, as pointed out, Usher actually technically was the producer on that one), or Manilow and that ilk.

But the Beach Boys, even though not any sort of heavy rock band, were not a good fit for Bruce's production. The thing Bruce provided for the BBs on LA and KTSA was the same thing Joe Thomas brought to TWGMTR; Bruce was (at that time) somewhat of an intermediary who could also augment things musically. Bruce was good for organizing sessions, keeping everything rolling along, etc.

But his work with the BBs in 1978-1979 reminds me a bit of David Malloy's production on the 1979 Badfinger albums "Airwaves." He was an Eddie Rabbit guy turning the "rock" stuff into mush with cardboard box drums.

I think very quickly after KTSA, Bruce really wasn't heavily involved in seemingly much of *anything*, whether it was writing and recording material for the BBs, producing, or even singing lead vocals in concert. I think at this stage (or even in the 90s), whatever production skills he did have are atrophied to the point where it has been decades since I even wondered to myself why Bruce isn't producing a bunch of stuff.

That said then...my 'tinkling' on it probably IS the best idea.  Now I gotta start drinking water again. ::)  Slumber in Pair o' Dice really is a turd burger...inspired by... ... ... its namesake.
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To be 2018-style current...it's a "sh!thole" of an album.  :)

Agreed.  Let's not waste time on crappy albums.

I can dig 80s drum sounds, and I love, love, love a ton of 80s music (including music with drum machines). And I'll even defend some of the songs on this album.

But to actually love the drum sounds on the album? I guess some are just kinda meh, ok, inoffensive, but how about the SUPER LOUD, SHRILL SNARE on Slow Summer Dancin' (One Summer Night)? Find me a more grating, fingers-on-the-chalkboard distracting drum sound in the whole BBs' released catalog. I dares ya! Do you actually love that specific sound on that song?

BTW, other than that AWFUL snare sound, I actually really dig that song.

Didja know that Mike's title for the follow-up album was seriously Masterpiece? It seems our friend Dr. Michael Edward Love thought he was making some important music.

I take it this is a rhetorical question and not aimed at me. If you go back and reread this thread, I have repeatedly stated that I dislike the drums on pretty much the whole album. To the point where I sold the US version, initially, only to get the UK one many years later.

Maybe I am just too fanatical, but I can't name a single BB album that doesn't contain at least something of merit. I'll even pull out NASCAR. Solo works, re-recordings, vanity projects, you name it, I can't get enough BB. Call me indiscriminate. I certainly wouldn't go to such lengths with any other band, except perhaps Beatles and Byrds (the three B's in music). Anyway, I think a lot of good points have been raised in this thread. And I still think a decent EP of remixed songs could be extracted from SiP. Of course I'd like to get a Brother years box of unreleased stuff. I have heard of 300+ songs languishing in the vault. But one does not exclude the other. I don't think a latterday comp would damage their legacy any more than what is already out. For one, only diehards like myself would buy it.

He did. He wrote liner notes to SiP, where he made it quite clear that his intention was a summer concept album. We can scoff at that, but that is what he wanted.

I think setting the tapes on fire could fix it.

I'd piss on the burning tapes, just to save them for posterity.

Hey!!!  That's ***MY*** job. ;)

People, the inadvertent genius of SIP is that there *aren't* any tapes. It was recorded with a Beta version of ProTools on a Macintosh Quadra computer! Nothing to burn!

(Though, in all seriousness, they may well have backed up stuff on DAT tape, and certainly something had to be run off when it came time to master it for release).

GoogaMooga, I agree with you 100% about finding at least something good in every BBs release. There are things I like on SIP, KTSA, Looking Back With Love, Unleash The Love, Going Public, Nascar, Summertime Cruisin, etc... I, like you said, just can't get enough!

I just looked up what that type of computer system would have looked like:

(http://i67.tinypic.com/xdecck.jpg)

Somewhere there must be some photos of the band in the studio recording this album, right? Especially since they were forging new territory with the technology.  I wonder what drove them to make the decision to record in this manner.

Did they get some sort of sweet deal with Apple for using and promoting a brand new type of recording method and system?   Was using an Apple computer yet another avenue for Mike to potentially be able to drop his Beatles connection, via the Apple reference, into interviews? Also I'm guessing it was cheaper and might've also been easier to record this way due to the incessant, nonstop touring that they did.  Probably a combination of reasons, but I'm curious.

I'm also curious if anybody ever, in the history of recorded  music, decided they themselves too wanted to record with ProTools due to liking the sound of this album.  Has any musician ever, for non-ironic purposes, decided that they wanted to try to replicate the SIP sound?

As I posted previously, the funny thing is there were albums recorded using *earlier* versions of ProTools *before* SIP that sound nowhere near as awful, in fact one released in 1991 is one of my favorite albums of the past 30 years. Matthew Sweet's "Girlfriend".

So as much as I'll repeat how awful SIP sounds, knowing how other albums used the same if not earlier versions of the same recording technology and didn't sound that bad, you have to wonder about the other factors involved. As in, how did something that sounded like that get approved for a release in the first place, no less with the name "The Beach Boys" attached to it.

Then fast forward to 2017 and Mike's solo album...'nuff said.

I think some of it had to be Melcher's production ethos of the time. I'm guessing the track "Still Cruisin'" wasn't recorded on ProTools, having been recorded in 1989. I don't know if it was a digital or analog recording, but either way, that track has that same thing, shrill sound that SIP has. Little to no bottom end.

Melcher's production work with the band also hurt the group vocals. His productions didn't seem to let them breathe too much. Even the processed (possibly at times synthesized) group vocal stacks on BB '85 produced by Steve Levine are warmer and fuller-sounding.

I'd draw the direct line from SIP right to "Unleash The Love" in terms of recording technology being used in such a ham-fisted way that it ruins the songs buried underneath all that digital mush. And there is one constant factor between both projects, and his credit is usually "executive producer" or something similar.

I actually don't place as much blame on Melcher, to be honest. If he took the job and was given the task of recreating "the Kokomo sound" on Mike's new material and his "concept album" in hopes of piggybacking on the fluke success of that soundtrack single, he had to work in a certain way to try recreating those sounds for Mike and those paying him to produce the record, and again it was a fool's errand of a goal from the beginning which led to some really bad sounding Beach Boys releases.

I would gladly take the production style of SIP over the Autotune horrors of Unleash the Love ANY DAY.

Melcher's position vis-à-vis the Beach Boys, especially in the mid-late 80s, is interesting. In the Gary Usher/McParland book, it's implied that Melcher and Usher (and I guess, ironically, Brian himself) are all kind of vying to be *the* producer for the band.

Melcher was to some degree indeed at the mercy of whatever the BBs threw at him (though Melcher was co-writing a lot of material with Mike). But I do think in pure sonic terms (recording, mixing, mastering) Melcher does foot a good hunk of the responsibility. He co-wrote "Still Cruisin" and much/most of SIP *and* also produced the sessions. He's a pretty big player in the game, even if beholden to Mike's decisions ultimately. I certainly wouldn't put *more* blame on Melcher than Mike Love. If Melcher had been busy with some other band or something, Mike almost surely would have made SIP happen in much the same way with some other producer.

I like *some* of Melcher's sounds in the BBs' canon around this time, guilty pleasures as they may be. I wonder how much Melcher was responsible for the sound of The BBs in the 80s/90s, in relation to how much he was responsible for The Byrds' sound in the mid-1960s.

Was Melcher a producer who really left his sonic mark in both instances, or did those albums sort of arrive at the sounds they did just out of circumstance, and less due to him pushing for a certain type of sound? Being that different producers yield different levels of control (which of course can vary from project to project). I love The Byrds, but am unfamiliar with the details of those albums' production, as they might compare to Brian Wilson's or George Martin's production footprint on BBs and Beatles albums.

Some bands, of course, will have members that fill an uncredited "Producer" or "Co-Producer" type roll. Was Melcher more of a Nik Venet type, where he didn't do much to make the albums sound the way they did, or more like Brian Wilson who was hugely involved in his heyday, or somewhere inbetween?

Sad that we lost Terry too young, as he could perhaps have answered many of these questions.

The more I listen the more I actually think the production on the first disc of Unleash The Love is quite good, besides the autotune. At least there are real instruments being played in interesting ways. All The Love In Paris, Crescent Moon, and Ram Raj all are well produced (besides the auotune). Disc Two is where we get into the really horrible production. It's odd, the drums were way too trebely on SIP (to the point where it hurts my ears) and on Unleash The Love it sounds like all of the high frequencies were taken out of the drums (especially Fun Fun Fun and WIBN--- the snare barely sounds like a snare, all the drums sound like muffled toms)

Good man!  :-D Nate, now we are two! But "Summertime Cruisin" I am not familiar with, how does that fit into the discography?

It's similar to the Nascar CD. In fact, it has many of the same tracks. It's credited to Mike Love & Bruce Johnston of The Beach Boys, but it's really Mike with Adrian Baker, like the Nascar CD.

https://www.discogs.com/Mike-Love-Bruce-Johnston-Summertime-Cruisin-The-Unforgettable-Favourites-Of-Mike-Love-And-Bruce-John/release/8573359

I'm just offering my opinion, but those "albums" like the NASCAR gas station giveaway, "Summertime Cruisin", and anything similar and related are some of the most unlistenable sh*t I've ever heard, and same goes for the related outtakes like "Bakers Dozen" on bootleg, and Mike's Radio Shack releases with Dean. Just pure dreck. Unlistenable dreck.

I've listened to them. I don't regret doing that but I wish I could take back the time I spent doing so. To each his own. But it shows exactly what Mike brought to the table in terms of the 80's and 90's and his skippering the SS Beach Boys into numerous icebergs that were sticking 20 feet high out of the water.

But...just my opinion.

Those Mike/Adrian Baker recordings (in any iteration) can only be described as good in the same way that, when you're a child, you're told to do a report on something and "say one positive thing and one negative thing" about something.

The only moment of intrigue for me on an of that stuff is the surprising choice to have Mike sing "Ballad of Ole Betsy." His performance isn't great, but it's a rare case of Mike taking on and old Brian falsetto-ish vocal.

But nobody needed those remakes (and the hand full of "new" songs like "Summertime Music" are beyond generic), and even if one were inclined to do re-recordings, Baker's stuff is very, very cheap-sounding.

Tell it, brother! And yes, my opinion of that contaminated waste reads exactly the same as yours.

Re disc 1 production; it’s good if you’re comparing it to disc 2, but that’s like comparing a 7/11 hotdog to a Sheetz hotdog, one may taste better than the other but either way you’re feeling sick afterwards.

All The Love In Paris sounds like it was recorded in a closet then someone slapped artificial reverb on every instrument, Getcha Back feels the same way. The only track on there that has any authentic feel of atmosphere is Ram Raj. Listening again to some of these tracks, I just can’t believe how unprofessional the auto-tune sounds, or why on earth it was even put on nearly every Mike lead. I’d rather hear an honest human vocal flub than a robot morph Mike’s voice into a clusterfuck of digitized hilarity.

Wawa hot dogs are actually good..... ;)

:woot And their hoagies rock! Any size coffee for a buck!  :o

I don't think I've ever bought any of their hot food.   When I go, it's usually a pit stop on the way to the beach, and I'll get a coffee, soda, or candy bar.   But it always smells heavenly in WaWa.

T'was my birthday the other day  ... [and to be crystal clear I'm still NOWHERE near as old as OSD...not even close...Who is?...but I digress] ...  A friend decided that he needed to give me 'Unleash the Diuretic Dawg'.  He thought that that would work for me.  A nice sentiment but it remains sealed.  Classic Rock magazine's Rob Hughes' review is a biting revelation of the poop contained there-in.  It says, in part, "Love doesn't do himself any favours on his first solo album in 26 years." and he adds  "Nothing can save the album itself, however.  Love offers up the kind of unrelenting tame MOR that makes Christopher Cross look edgy.  What's worse, the lyrics are packed with so many trite cliches that you can't help but wince."  Of EVERYTHING reviewed...new or old...l.p. or book...THIS item received the absolute lowest reviewed rating...a mere 4 out of 10.  Rob is obviously generous.  Still... ... ...

Imagine if Hughes had to review 'S.I.Pee'?  Well it'll never make their 'Reissues' section...so he's safe.  Like G.F. I do so wish I had the time back that I spent listening to some of hat-boy's non Beach Boys releases.  I am not so much of a collector that I kept his vinyl 'attempts'.  They take up too much space...and they'll never-EVER get played again so why bother?  So I turfed them, like 25 years ago, when we moved from point A to point B while we were still in Toronto.  The guy is a 'B' player at best.  Brian made him 'seem' like a A-lister but he never was and S.I. Pee was only ever destined for the '3 c.d.s for 5 bucks' bin.  [the other 2 c.d.s selected worth $2.50 each]

Yes...yes...SMART-guy!!!  I still have both the vinyl and c.d. of S.I.Piss.  I cannot tell a lie.  I do want to have the complete Beach Boys 'set'...and in both formats.  What I don't want is Mike Love Reimagining Gershwin...OR Brian Wilson.

Aye, you can’t put an age on the immortal ones - OSDs work will endure forever. 1000s of years from now archeologists of a future civilization will be combing the ruins of the early internet, there they will find some of the funniest and truest statements regarding Mike Love ever to be written.

Also happy birthday, Add Some.

Well, Happy Birthday Add Some ya ol' coot. C'mon now, you're not that young, huh?
Rab, thanks for your tribute. Made my night and I'll keep it going as long as myKe luHv keeps being a dirtbag.

For AddSome:  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot
And for OSD  :  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

As far as Mike's solo efforts...just give a listen. That's all you'll ever need to know about the whole scene. The guy musically has been bluffing a high-stakes poker game with a pair of deuces for decades.

Add some and OSD rule! :bw

Aw shucks you guys...  :-[  Brian rules Smile Brian.  OSD and I just know 'who' doesn't.  To be fair that list is far longer than just the 2 of us.  I could start typing it but, at 60 words a minute I'd still be typing well past my 80th birthday...if I make it that long.  'He' likely will.  I hope he's retired by then.  No more books, no more records/cds/recording of any kind, no more performances, no more speeches and...most of all...no more interviews.  Enough already!!!

Once he goes away...it'll be easier to remember his early 60s contributions with some degree of 'fondness'.  Repeat..."SOME" degree.  There are 360 degrees not true?  He was of some value to the launching of the product.  1963 and 1964 were good years in that regard...and once in a while further along the way.  According to *my* calculations old 'chrome dome' has been 'Beach Boying' to some degree, or another, for many of these last 664 months.  [ie: Oct '61 'til now.]  To be kind...I would give him credit for being an important part of it all for 24 solid months and if you add up all of his occasional contributions perhaps another 3 months if you really stretch it out over the preceding and ensuing years.  That's 27 out of 664 months.  Now the touring Beached Boys of which he is a part...although he historically always lived off of Brian's back, then Carl's back, and more frequently off of Scott's back...'cause he sure as sh*t can't do any of 'this' on his own...might allow him ['cause really Scott hasn't been around to prop up the band and guide it all that long] a further 3 months...so add it up some.  I'm sayin' that 'he' has been a key ingredient for 30 of 664 months.  OK...it's subjective.  [but I don't see YOU typing.]

30 out of 664 is what?  4.5...that's four point five...percent of the time.  That sounds about right.  Come on OSD...Give it up!!!  It works out to 16.2 degrees of fondness...out of 360.  That's PLENTY accurate as far as I can tell.
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So then...Can Summer in Paradise be salvaged?  The answer isn't merely NO!!!.  It's also Why bother???  Wanna "salvage" it?  Press 'flush' and wish it well.

Hard to surpass that level of sarcasm, but consider this: if Mike hadn't been a constant all those years, if he hadn't soldiered on, being the frontman and pitching in with the occasional inspired lyrics and some pretty good songs (fourth best songwriter of the principal nine?) now and then, would we even have this forum here today? Would there even be a Beach Boys, or factions? People talk of Carl being the anchor, but who left the band for two years? Contrast with the man who never quit the band. Who believed in the idea all along. To suggest that Mike only contributed lyrics or songs of value in the beginning is, well, contentious.  :) I'll keep my SiP, make judicious use of the skip button in doing so, and I'll even order Unleash... just out of curiosity.

Let me get this straight. No myKe, no SS Board? No myKe no Beach Boys, just factions? (I'll take a myKeless faction), Carl not the anchor because myKe didn't wanna practice? Quite honestly, I would have loved 'em even more than I did had that clown been jettisoned in 1967 thereby getting rid of the worst voice in the band and the absolutely worst songwriter among them. "Summer of Love" anyone? The list goes on and on and on.

Ahh, the old line of PR comes up again...Mike carrying the torch, the whole frontman thing, yep. There it is again. Maybe instead of asking what-ifs regarding Mike skippering ahead with the band name license, ask why didn't they retire the band name after Carl passed away and let Mike tour on his own merits under his own name.

Yes, GF, there it is again in it's old worn out tire likeness further illustrating that myKe was an NCOTBB (No chance outside the Beach Boys).

If I am inflating Mike's importance, it is to balance things, counter the extreme anti-Mike sentiments. Perhaps the truth lies somewhere in between these two positions? That is, Mike being better than his rep, but not as good as he himself thinks and what his fans make him be? I am coming across as an uncritical Mike fan, but really, I am neutral about the whole thing. People have different ideas of what constitutes the Beach Boys. I think he was integral to the mix, no more, no less.

Wiki lists 115 songs written, co-written, and/or composed by Mike Love, as of Sept 13, 2016. Have a look. Some pretty good songs on there.
Compare with the contributions of Al, Bruce, David, Blondie, and Ricky. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Songs_written_by_Mike_Love

GoogaMooga, if you’ve got a problem with two people on the other side of the spectrum going to the extreme, why on earth would you do the exact same thing for your side of the spectrum? I think most everyone on this forum has a pretty good idea of the great contributions Mike made to the band. Do you think because two people here have an extremely negative view of Mike you need to over-exaggerate his contributions to save Mike’s rep? Just be honest about about Mike...most people here would probably agree with that position and it wouldn’t create any unnecessary division.

Mike has done some really dumb sh*t in his time, but he’s also done some really great stuff. Being honest about both the good and the bad is the best thing we can do as fans to ensure the true story stays in tact. Otherwise we turn into either a divisive community or something akin to BBB...both are unappealing.

Well, that's what I am trying to do, give a balanced view. And if you say most members here take the middle ground, more the better. I don't think it's extreme to link to a wiki list of 115 songs, but I'll stop now. Plenty of other things we can all agree on. Peace out.  :)

I think it's true that Mike's best lyrical contributions were on the albums from 1963-73.   After that, they became pretty middle of the road.

But, on the other side of that spectrum, I'd argue that the overall quality of Beach Boys material took a nosedive after Holland, and that includes Brian Wilson penned songs, and Mike often shoulders 100% of the blame for dip in quality in BB material. 

It’s not a balanced view to heap praise on Mike for never quitting the band while implying Carl wasn’t a good anchor because he quit during an awful time for the band for two years. Linking a Wiki list isn’t extreme at all, but when you try to comparatively diminish (in the same paragraph) the contributions of other members it feels less balanced than you’re trying to be.

A previous member here, Sheriff John Stone, admitted to taking some lunatic stance on the Mike vs Brian feud by “faking” to hate Melinda and Brian for years and years to prove a point to the Brianistas (something really nuts like that). Anyways, his posts caused a ton of pointless arguing and divisiveness here, all because he was supposedly trying to create a balance. Point being, it’s not healthy for the board if you take extreme stances to create a balance. Just tell it how it was/is without any exaggeration and the board will be better for it.

Fair enough, I take back the Carl comment. I do think I have tried to write balanced and considered posts. It was argued that Mike was the worst at everything, I rate him higher than that. In short, I like ALL nine Beach Boys. Go back and read some of the vitriol in this thread. Yes, some of it is funny, but it is still vitriol. I've been here, what, ten years or more, I never tried to cause strife. Mike Love, not war.  :angel:

In all my years as a fan, I've never had the impression that Mike has been blamed excessively for the drop off in quality post-1973 (or whatever one views as the turning point). I think it's well understood that, especially in the 70s and early 80s, the other members often weren't bring their A-game either. Most of the albums have many moments of brilliance, and also some solid material, and then some dreck.

I do think Mike *should* shoulder the vast majority of the responsibility for the dip quality post-1987 or so. Mike not only wrote or co-wrote a lot of the material, but *actively sought out* a role as the creative leader of the group. I think it's important to spread some of the blame to the other members for their inaction/passivity, etc.

But if you don't like the material the BBs released post-1987, that's more about Mike than anybody else. He co-wrote most of the new stuff on "Still Cruisin'", and SIP was 100% his baby.

Personally, I'll take the "new" songs on Still Cruisin over most of the Brian's Back era (Big 15 Ones / Love You).  But, I know I'm in the minority. 

Yeah I remember when he "revealed" all this to me. And while I understand that it would be annoying to see somebody you dig being sh*t on (sometimes unfairly), I don't understand why disparaging Brian and basically doing everything but calling him an invalid made up for it. SJS is probably one of the least respectful people of Brian's situation that I have ever dealt with online, and that is really saying something.

Yes, and we should all of course like what we like and not like what we don't like.

But, when we're talking about more objective/historical issues surrounding the band (e.g. fan attitudes towards the band, such as a perceived "decline" in quality, etc.), then we really have to step outside of what we personally like and look at what the historical record shows (to the degree we can discern) and what the general feeling is among fans over many decades.

So in terms of Mike and his role in the perceived "quality" of the band's output, I don't think Mike has been particularly singled out for the band's  mid-late 70s "decline." He didn't really add much to the proceedings during those years, and the other guys sometimes did. So, it may be that he isn't singled out for many high points in that era while others are, but that's as it should be. The high points in the 1976-1986-ish era come mostly from Dennis, Carl, and Brian, with some good moments from Al and Bruce. Mike, not so much. He turned in professional vocal work, and sometimes augmented others' music with serviceable lyrics. But "Everyone's In Love With You" is about as good as it gets from Mike in that era. "Sumahama" is awful, MIU isn't so great (some good music, but awful lyrics), Mike got in some decent lyrics working with Brian on some KTSA lyrics, and Mike actually takes a back seat to Carl on the '85 album.

Fair enough. 

Personally, I think Sumahama is a pretty good song, and Getcha Back a good, bordering on great, song.  So, while I get your point about being objective, simply stating "Sumahama is awful" as if its fact doesn't seem too objective to me. 

Regarding a "balanced" view, I think a more appropriate term would to be accurate, to be fair.

I occasionally see a "balanced" view presented as a ridiculous exercise in "say one positive and negative thing about this guy, and then one positive and negative thing about that guy."

If 37 bad reviews for "Unleash the Love" come in, you don't need to "balance" it out with a positive one. If *you* think it's good, then say it's good and tell us why.

But in general, Mike gets a bad rap from fans because of the things he has done and said. It doesn't mean it hasn't gone over the line on occasion, and there's something to be said for calling it like it is regarding Mike but then moving on to something else where you can be more positive. Instead of trying to fabricate or stretch it to say something positive about Mike, just talk about something else where one *can* be positive.

Most everyone, with maybe a few exceptions, have regularly recognized Mike's *hugely important* contributions to the band.

I couldn't disagree more. In fact, I surprised myself by realizing recently that I like 15 Big Ones more than Sunflower. I think it has aged well ... it's like a light version of Love You.

I think "Sumahama" is awful. That's my opinion. All subjective.

Fans in general over the years, in my decades and decades of fandom and scholarship, have across the board tended to agree that the song isn't good. Very, very few "Sumahama" fans that I've seen over the years.

"Getcha Back" has tended to go rather middle of the road. I think fans were happy to have it in '85 after a number of years of not much of anything. It was a moderate hit for the band (#26), and thus has often made it onto compilations to represent that era. But again, over the years, I haven't heard a ton of people trashing the song (though many have rightly pointed out it's somewhat of a rewrite of "Don't Worry Baby"), but few have singled it out as anything near "great."

Over the years, I've frankly noticed the majority of the discussion surrounding "Getcha Back" has involved Brian's falsetto vocal part (e.g. "It sounds good" or "It sounds awful" or "Is it really Brian singing that?")

In my opinion, the song has always sounded sparse and unfinished, like a demo. It not only sounds like "Don't Worry Baby" (highlighted when they did a medley of the two songs on the 25th Anniversary show), but also "Hushabye." It also sounds at times like "Hungry Heart", which makes it even more ironic that Mike a number of years later covered "Hungry Heart" for a Springsteen tribute album. I'm also not a fan of Mike's vocal on the song (Mike himself apparently mentioned over the years that he wanted a Dennis-ish, Bryan Adams-type voice singing the song, and we got that a bit when David Marks sang it), and I think he had amped up his nasal voice in that era, with the production/mixing on the recording only making it worse.

I put "Getcha Back" in the same category as something like "Come Go With Me"; moderately catchy, generally well-performed, innocuous at absolute worst. But not a high water mark for the band by any means.

15 Big Ones has really grown on me in the past few years. Palisades Park, Susie Cincinnati, It’s OK, Had To Phone Ya. It’s full of really damn good songs, and they all have phenomenal harmonies and big sound.

Fair enough, but I never could understand the attraction of that era. 

To be fair, I listened to 15 Big Ones recently, and its a better album than I initially gave it credit for, but I think the drop from Holland to 15BO is a steep one. 

That's fine if that's your opinion. 

But when you advised I should look at the Beach Boys catalog "objectively" followed by "Sumahama is awful," it gives the impression that you're stating that an objective fact. 

And, I'm really not trying to be a smart ass here, but what is this "scholarship" that you keep referring to? 

It was just really bizarre. Years of really harsh statements about Brian and Melinda all because he loved Brian more than his own family apparently. I’m glad that’s all in the past.

Sumahama is really quite lovely, IMO. Better than Shortnin' Bread, at least!

One newish Mike song I really like is Cool Head, Warm Heart.

From that era, I also like Belles of Paris, although I think it works better as Bells of Christmas. 

I think Cool Head, Warm Heart is pretty decent, and easily the best of the "new" songs on the Songs From Here and Back comp. 

Part of me wishes that they had continued in the Holland frame of mind - environmentally/politically conscious, branching out artistically....heck, they could’ve made a whole series of albums in different countries as an experiment. But I’m also glad we got to experience both Holland and 15 Big Ones. The latter isn’t a favorite album of mine by any stretch, but it’s a whole new palette of colors that was pretty well done all things considered.

Ugh, that album version of Shortenin Bread sucks any bit of life out of that song...it’s just awful. But the unreleased/booted version is one hell of a rockin tune.

The covers on 15 Big Ones were quite inspired. When I read a mention of "Rock and Roll Music", I am just as likely to think BB as I am Chuck Berry. That's no mean feat by them.

While I'm grateful for all of the Beach Boys albums, even ones I'm not a fan of, I think 15 Big Ones could've been better.   I really like It's OK and the Pallisades Park cover.  

I think the single mix of Rock and Roll Music far surpassed the album version, and the song sounds much better in concert....partly because it actually sounds more like a rock song.  I think many of the covers could've been so much better.  In the 1960s, The Beach Boys took other artists' material and really made it their own.   I don't get that from the 15BO covers.  

I'll take Chuck Berry, The Beatles, and even Yahoo Serious over the version from 15 Big Ones. 

It took me a long time to warm up to 15 Big Ones. ‘It’s OK’ I disliked immensely for years because of that cheesy opening “Fun is in its no sin” line. But years later I spun this record on vinyl full blast and the whole album just clicked.

The “find a ride” section of ‘Its Ok’ is one of the coolest codas they did in the 70s (the bass and sax are killer when you listen on a good sound system). Palisades Park has some really great vocal/instrumental moments. Susie Cincinnati has that great key change that makes the harmonies just burst to life. Mike’s ‘Everyone’s In Love With You’ has a really cool backing track and harmonies, despite the cheesy lyrics - but they fit with the whole album so it’s not a bad thing. ‘Had To Phone Ya’ has some great chord changes, and that telephone skit at the end is pretty cool.

The whole album has innocent charm, but yet it’s backed with this moog orchestra that channels Phil Spector’s wall of sound. And all of that is topped with really great vocals/harmonies.

It's OK is probably one of my favorite post Holland songs.  I think it should've been the lead single.   I can't think of a better song to announce that The Beach Boys were back after a three year hiatus.   I think it could've become a summer of '76 anthem, but of course, it was released in the fall for some reason. 

I think it's irritating how certain Beach Boys albums can be dismissed or flat out used as punching bags by large groups of fans because of the context surrounding the release (as opposed to the music itself). 15 Big Ones is a prime example. What if the band hadn't dried up for 3 1/2 years prior to its release? It's not 15 Big Ones fault that they didn't release Holland Part 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6 in the intervening years. We could have had both. We could have had a smoother transition. All I'm saying is, while many of the criticisms of 15 Big Ones are entirely valid, try finding a review of the album that doesn't talk as much, if not more, about Holland, Endless Summer, and the 'Brian's Back' campaign than the actual music. All that context is great, but is it more important than the music? If Carl and Dennis had misgivings about the music, should that affect my enjoyment of it? I don't think so. I've been listening to Party! a lot lately. Perhaps the most widely dismissed of their hit albums. Gee, that can't have anything to do with the timing of the release and the success of Barbara Ann, could it? It kind of disrupts that straight line that fans like to draw from Surfin' to GV.

I often lament the drop in quality from Holland to 15 Big Ones. 

But, from my perspective, even without comparing 15 Big Ones to Holland or using any kind of context, I still think it's an overall subpar album.   And probably one of those albums I wouldn't own if it weren't a Beach Boys album. 

If I'm in the right mood, Party can be a very fun album to listen to.   Even with just acoustic guitars and their voices (in much better shape in 65 than 76), the covers of Party sound much better than the ones on 15 Big Ones

Yes, 15 BO was an incredible step backward after the stunning Holland, but I have to say that  "Just Once in My Life" has to be the absolutely best cover I've ever heard them attempt. They nail it better than the Righteous Brothers did. It alone was worth the price of admission. Of course, the corny, syrupy, god-awful
"Everyone's In Love With You" would have been better left in the can as should have "Sumhamina" witch bears the same the same description. Both of them are just awful.  :P

As I've been trimming down my record collection over the last couple years, I've taken a hard look at where The Beach Boys records fit in my world, and which ones I actually play a lot.

This includes realizing I never spin the Surf's Up album, I don't gravitate to the early records, and my go-tos are Today through Friends, plus 15 Big Ones and Love You.

I like the Ten Years of Harmony comp for the rest of the brother era.

Sitting down and actually listening to LA Light Album or MIU is not really a great time for me. As much as something like "Sumahana" is lame, I don't care much for "Goin South" or even "Love Surrounds Me" either.

I do like Holland and Sunflower but you can feel that BW was really in the back seat, so it seemed like a different band. I like 20/20 better than either because it still has some carry over vibes from the Friends era.

While Brian doesn't do a lot of lead singing on Sunflower, he was pretty instrumental in the songwriting.   It was the failure of that album to chart that really caused him to be less involved in the next three albums. 

When I first really really got into the Beach Boys catalog, I really got into the albums from 1966-73, with the exception of Smiley Smile.   So such so that I really didn't listen to the early material as much.  But, in the last year, I've found myself gravitating more to the 1963-66 period (Pet Sounds is the one constant in both periods).   Even though, with the exception of Pet Sounds, those albums are have their share of filler.   When they were on, The Beach Boys were so good during this time period.   

Couldn’t agree more! I love how Brian’s putting his all into his vocal parts (to the point of cracking his voice at one point) and it works perfectly with the pleading of the narrator.

BW's one man wall of sound! :hat

Versus myKe's Wall of Slop.  ::)

Good to see some love for 15 Big Ones! The only song I tend to skip is Everyone's in Love with You. It's not bad but it sounds out of place. Other than that, I love all the great unusual arrangements and quirky little production touches on 15BO, pure Brian! I feel his 70s synth work (from American Spring/Funky Pretty to Love You) is still pretty underrated.

Until I got the vinyl I tended to skip many of these tracks. But one night I put this on and really listened to the whole thing, that’s when I started to appreciate it. ‘Everyone’s In Love With You’ is probably my least favorite track, but it doesn’t feel out of place on the record so I don’t hate it.

Someone recently posted a quote regarding Love You and how advanced Brian’s moog usage was on that record. I personally think that the moog/synth use on 15 BO is exceedingly better and far more advanced. Love You seems pretty bare bones in places where 15 BO uses every trick in the book for big sounding production. I hope this album gains popularity in years to come!

15 Big Ones was a grower for me too. I quite like it now. There's a quirkiness to the retro covers and the Brian-centric tracks that was jarring at first listen, but I now find endearing. Many of the things I love about Love You are present in this album too.

I always liked 15 Big Ones. As with SmileySmile, the hype around both meant people were ultimately disappointed. When you take them as standard BB albums...well SS is genius IMO (reinforced by recent archive releases)....just an incredible sounding album whereas 15 Big Ones is a really enjoyable listen.

MIU on the other hand took me years to warm too and I still only kinda like it. Must have been what Dennis said about it  ;D

and back to topic....can SIP be salvaged......No.

Something about 15BO doesn't click with me, although I love For Once In My Life and It's OK and a couple of others. The oldies and the Love You-type fuzzy production just don't suit each other. I don't think there's an out and out stinker on there really, but it just doesn't coalesce as a whole. Not a satisfying listen if you play the whole thing. The tracks on their own are better suited to adding to your own playlists.

MIU I don't care for at all. Possibly even my least played of the main studio albums - but that's only because I dip into SIP once a year because the sadist in me loves a good horror show - to whit, no it can not be salvaged.

Not a big fan of MIU at all, even after years of trying to like it. The singing is pretty good and the songwriting has its moments but the arrangements are easily the most forgettable on any BB album up to that point. I like Sweet Sunday, Pitter Patter and of course My Diane, but as a whole this record feels incredibly bland and unimaginative. Love the video footage of Brian teaching everyone their parts for Mike Come Back to L.A., though, and would've loved to hear a finished version of that recording.

That's fair, I'd have to agree with that too.

I think this could be used as a blanket statement for every post Holland Beach Boys album.

Summer in Paradise can most certainly be salvaged -- from the landfill where they dumped all the unsold copies.

I think Surfin' 92 could be easily salvaged for Love's new rumored project, Keepin' The Love Alive. More vocal processing and a guest rap from Uncle Kracker would be all that song needs to fit part and parcel with Love's current solo sound.

Are you really not satisfied when you complete your listening of TWGMTR? I mean, there may be some duds on there (though I’ve grown to like the duds) but as a whole it is a pretty satisfying listen...in that I don’t take off my headphones and feel negative thoughts about the album. Overall it’s a happy/good listening experience. But that’s just my opinion.

Personally, I love TWGMTR, but I think its partly due to my really getting into the catalog in the summer of 2012. It seems as the album approaches its sixth birthday, fan opinion isn't as positive. 

What a shame if that’s the case. It’s not perfect, but it certainly has really top-notch music on it. I wonder what it’s reputation will be in 30 years.

Unfortunately, I think its rep will continue to decline as the novelty wears off.  That tends to happen with one off reunion albums.  Van Halen released a solid album earlier in 2012 that's been all but forgotten.  Fun fact, both the Van Halen and Beach Boys comeback albums missing hitting #1 on Billboard due to Adele.

For me, its one of my favorite BB albums.  Especially from a consistency standpoint. 

Summer in Paradise is actually the best BB album from a, uh, "consistency standpoint".

Ha ha, couldn't  stand it from the first listen. Yet again Hickory V is ahead of the curve  :p

It’s beginning to grow on me that way too. Years back I really disliked the inclusion of ‘Daybreak’ but now I think it really fits, and probably has the most ethereal sounding harmonies on the album. Same with ‘Beaches In Mind’ - I’ve found its really just a fun harmless song.

Shame there wasn’t a second reunion album. But I’m really glad we got this one.

I've grown to.appreciate Daybreak more as well.   I've always liked Beaches in Mind. 

A follow up would've been nice, but I couldnt imagine a more fitting studio swan song than Summer's Gone.