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Author Topic: Can "Summer in Paradise" be salvaged?  (Read 7844 times)
GoogaMooga
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« on: January 09, 2018, 05:39:32 AM »

The UK version was already an improvement, and the vocals on the album are pretty good. I believe there's an album hidden in that train wreck. If I were Mike, I'd remix the damn thing, even if it had to be for my own money. Mike can afford it, and the label, whichever it was, ought to distribute it. But, Mike's a proud and stubborn fellow, "Looking Back With Love" is still missing on CD.

Realistically, what would it cost to book a studio and a good drummer? That's all it takes. Wipe the old drum track and you're good. Who should he choose as drummer? Hal Blaine would be too old. Is he even alive?

Mike and BRI have got nothing to lose. As it is, it is OOP and out of mind. They have all but dissociated themselves from it, it is an embarrassment to them.

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« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2018, 06:06:39 AM »

Considering how much of Unleash the Love sounds, I wouldn't trust Mike with any kind of redux of Summer in Paradise.   

Plus, no amount of remastering can save Summer of Love, Surfin 92, Remember Walking in the Sand, and Under the Boardwalk. 

I don't know how the album was produced, but maybe some ace producer / engineer could take the masters and make them sound better.  I've always said there's about half a good album hiding underneath.  But, at this point, I highly doubt, that anyone would devote the time to it. 
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« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2018, 06:43:40 AM »

Setting aside the technical issues (I honestly don't know if BRI still has the multi-track ProTools files on this thing, or if they'd still even be playable; but hopefully one would think they backed up the mulittracks on DAT or something), nothing would really be saved.

It could be made a bit better. It would need more than a remix. First and foremost, it would need newly-recorded real drums.

Everything would have to have as much of the awful, shrill digital processing removed as possible, especially the vocals.

If there are some high quality, dry vocal and instrumental stems to work with, something that at least sonically grates on the ears less could be achieved.

But the songs would still suck. I'd love to hear "Strange Things Happen" and "Lahaina Aloha" with new, real drums, and a dry, less compressed and processed mix. But that's about it.
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« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2018, 06:46:39 AM »

No
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« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2018, 07:00:27 AM »


Right, SB. Leave it alone and let this abomination wither away as it has done since it's dismal release. Let it be a reminder to all what myKe luHv thinks is good enough to unleash on the public. It's proof positive that he's a hacker of the highest degree who should be forever ignored.
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« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2018, 07:07:11 AM »

Hypehat's review of SIP is legendary:

Ok, so I have a half a bottle of wine in me and another to go after a steady day of drinking, and listening to Summer In Paradise seems like a fantastic idea right now. It's been so hard to live without it, so lets talk about it.

1) Hot Fun In The Summertime

DEAR JESUS THE SNARE. We will have to get used to this.
Also, "Whisperin'" Mike Love. I like to picture putting HOURS into these leads.
Carl telling me we can "Bum bum bum" is kinda flattering imo.
SAX SOLO. Those breaks make me flinch.
This thing is mixed so fucking terribly Carl's high notes vanish from the mix.
also, WHAT THE HELL IS CARL DOING. I guess given Beckley/Lamm/Wilson, it's safe to say that absolutely every vestige of Carl's taste had disappeared by this point. He might have even thought this was A GOOD IDEA.

2. Surfin'

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.
f*** me, the vocals on this are absolutely terrrrrrrrrrible. NASAL DOMINATION. Carl being SHITE. Like, even his smack-addled late 70's performances have merit. This sucks.
Not to mention ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE ABOUT THIS.
new lyrics. NEW LYRICS
MORE OF THEM.
I'm in pain. There are ten more songs. WHY.

3. SUMMER OF LOVE.

Mike Love, I will come round your house and make my fist meditate up your arse for this.
CHRIST ON A BICYCLE THE DJ SCRATCHES.
My Grandma has better flow than MC "Whisperin" Love.
attached and back don't rhyme, you bald apple juice chuggin goon.

4. Island Fever

These verse appear to be words in the english language. But they make no sense.
The Beach Boys' hymn to sexually transmitted diseases?
"My baby caught it and I'm not quite sure how/she might have got it from her travel brochure?" - Denny lives?
My baby can't dance or sleep because IT BURNS.
KEYCHANGE
f*** synthesisers, btw.


5. Still Surfin'

What the hell is this.
WHAT THE HELL IS THIS.
The fact I've spent a lot of time editing other things during this song speaks volumes.
What the hell makes ANYONE think it's ok to drop mexican terms for women in verses. Mamacita and the like. f*** YOU, MIKE.

6. Slow Summer Dancin' (Unneccesary parentheses)

IN BOTH CORNERS, BRUCE JOHNSTON
DETAILING HOW HE'S GONNA MAKE SWEET, SWEET, SWEET LOVE TO GROUPIES.
Misheard "I'll treat my angel really nice" as "I'll treat my ANUS.....REALLY NICE!"
Al "The Songwriter" Jardine keeping up his fine, fine, tradition of contributing entirely original melodic and lyrical ideas to songs. HOW DO YOU SLEEP AT NIGHT
That sax break. NO.

7. Strange Things Happen.

Ok, this is the worst thing so far.

It's something to do with the combination of SLAMMIN' MIKE LOVE JAMS and Al "Well, that never happened before!" Jardine learning about sex in 1991.

OH MY GOD. This is so so so s oo soooooo awful. I am crying with laughter.

8. Remember (Walking In The Sand)

Carl, I do love you, but when Mary Weiss dies she's going to find you in heaven and BEAT SEVEN SHADES OF CRAP OUT OF YOU FOR THIS.

"Echoing" Mike Love is also particularly ridiculous.

THE SAX SOLOS. AHSHGSHDGFXBGDGXFNJDMKYI6


GUYS I'M LOSING THE WILL TO LIVE. I HATE THIS ALBUM.

9. Lahina Aloha

Tropical beats
meaningless title
SOOOOOLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
palm trees
paradise
"Whisperin" Love

the f*** is this DRIVEL. I FEEL LIKE I'M BEING VIOLATED WITH OFFENSIVE ITEMS CARVED OUT OF JELLY OR SOMETHING. OFFENSIVE SMOOTHNESS. It's some terrible oxymoron i wouldn't believe possible if it wasn't fucking me in my ears.
THE HELL.

THREE MORE TRACKS LEFT, YOU CAN DO IT.

10. Under The Boardwalk

MIke Love, you get the f*** away from my girl.
Carl, I'm sorry, but The Drifters are also going to beat the hell out of you up there too. Possibly Carole King as well. At least they'll be tired after beating mike love to shreds. And you, Al.
ANOTHER SAXOPHONE SOLO. mo'fos.

As an aside, guys, this is one of the most awful albums in terms of production, mixing and mastering I've ever heard. IT IS THIN AS HELL.

11. SUMMER IN PARADISE.

dig that jangly fauxbyrds guitar.
THOSE 'HARMONY' VOCALS ARE CRAP. BRIAN WOULD BEAT YOU DEAD IF HE WAS IN THAT SESSION.
I think these might be EVEN WORSE LYRICS than Strange Things Happen or MC LOVE in something else.
f***, IT'S JIM MCGUINN.
that explains the guitar.
YOU BITCH, MCGUINN.

This is shite. musically, aurally, it's balls. BALLLLLLS. BIG SWEATY, HAIRY, OOZING TESTICLES. I feel ill.

12. Stamorever.

I have no more bile. I just have wine. After the systematic and calculated raping of the entire spectrum of pop music through these twelve tracks, some arsehole covering a Dennis Wilson song pales in comparison. I mean, it even has woodblocks on it, which makes it more reverent of a 'classic' bb's sound than anything on this record yet.

SEE WHAT THIS RECORD HAS DONE TO ME. I AM DEFENDING STAMOS



and with one fucking horrible sounding fake midi chord on the keyboard, that's it. The worst record I ever heard.
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« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2018, 07:07:50 AM »

Okay, lets say you ditch everything except for the vocals. You’re still left with a trashheap of laughable lyrics, and really bad harmony stylings. And no amount of Wrecking Crew style instrumentals could ever erase the horrendous sonic disaster known as Mike Love making an embarrassing attempt at rap.

Do you ever get the feelin' that you got to get away
It's a sympton of the fever all across the U. S. A.
My family doctor told me "son the flu is what you have"
But I know it's island fever and I got it real bad

My baby caught it and I'm not quite sure how
(Oooo I got it bad) I got the island fever
She might have got it from her travel brochure now
(Oooo I got it bad)

-Island Fever

Yeah i'll take you to the movies
But i'm no fool (wah wah oooo)
First i'll get you on the beach
Or in a swimming pool
Doing unto others is the golden rule
But doing it with you would be so
Very cool

-Summer of Love

He doesn't do a whole lot with his law degree
They thought about a major oceanography
But he does a lot of thinkin' 'bout how to save the sea

-Still Surfin’

Need I even mention what John Stamos did to one of Dennis’ most touching songs? Apart from dumping the master tapes in the garbage, no amount of restoration would ever make that cover not wreak of pure Limburger cheese.

I once had an ear infection that swelled up half of my head, it was excruciating pain, and the treatment felt just as awful. Yet listening to SIP is still the worst thing that has ever happened to my ears. I would feel so bad for this band as a whole if any monetary resources went to attempting a futile salvaging of this record. Give the money to charity...heck, burn the money if you must, but don’t put a spotlight on a record that no one even bought in the first place.
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« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2018, 07:14:37 AM »

Frankly, I don't really get the hate behind the remake of Forever.  Is it as good as the Sunflower original??  Absolutely not.  But, people talk about it like it's Do It Again '17 (which is unlistenable). 

But, I don't think many posters here appreciate power ballads like I do, so that could be a reason.
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« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2018, 07:25:58 AM »

Frankly, I don't really get the hate behind the remake of Forever.  Is it as good as the Sunflower original??  Absolutely not.  But, people talk about it like it's Do It Again '17 (which is unlistenable). 

But, I don't think many posters here appreciate power ballads like I do, so that could be a reason.

I’m all about some power ballads - years ago Guns N Roses used to be one of my favorite bands, and I can shamefully admit I blared some Whitesnake on my stereo. But turning a really sentimental Dennis Wilson song into an early 90s poor attempt at a power ballad just isn’t my cup of tea.

I think my main problem with it is that Dennis Wilson had passed on years prior, and here Stamos is turning one of his most touching songs into a cheesy prop on a sitcom show, then re-recording it (in a really untasteful style for the song) for a Beach Boys album....not even a solo venture but a Beach Boys album. As someone said here years ago, Dennis probably would’ve kicked John’s ass if he attempted this if he was still alive.
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« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2018, 07:29:55 AM »

Frankly, I don't really get the hate behind the remake of Forever.  Is it as good as the Sunflower original??  Absolutely not.  But, people talk about it like it's Do It Again '17 (which is unlistenable). 

But, I don't think many posters here appreciate power ballads like I do, so that could be a reason.

I’m all about some power ballads - years ago Guns N Roses used to be one of my favorite bands, and I can shamefully admit I blared some Whitesnake on my stereo. But turning a really sentimental Dennis Wilson song into an early 90s poor attempt at a power ballad just isn’t my cup of tea.

I think my main problem with it is that Dennis Wilson had passed on years prior, and here Stamos is turning one of his most touching songs into a cheesy prop on a sitcom show, then re-recording it (in a really untasteful style for the song) for a Beach Boys album....not even a solo venture but a Beach Boys album. As someone said here years ago, Dennis probably would’ve kicked John’s ass if he attempted this if he was still alive.

Fair points, but I think Dennis may have also appreciated the fact that the sitcom shone a light on the song Forever, which unfairly, wasn't as well know as it could be. 

And, there's absolute zero shame in blaring Whitesnake.  The day I stop blaring Whitesnake, please just take me off this physical plane of existence. 
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2018, 08:22:22 AM »

Well, I actually think Summer of Love is fun and I love the drum sounds on the album. Why do some people want everything to sound like Pet Sounds or Sunflower? SIP is not a masterpiece, nor it's meant to sound like one. It's just a corny, cheesy and (partly) horrible album. I can't stand that Forever cover. But overall the album has it's charm - and those cheesy drums are a huge part of it.
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« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2018, 08:49:51 AM »

I would quite happily re-record the drum and percussion parts AND redo the lead vocal on Forever
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2018, 08:58:00 AM »

 LOL  LOL

Okay, here's my retraction. I concede there's not a whole album hidden there, some of the examples of lyrics posted here are really indefensible, or laughable at best. How about an EP, then. Or a maxi single?   Evil I'll have to go back and listen aqain. Sometimes I let years pass between listens, so much other stuff to cycle through as well. Also, I never really listen intently to lyrics; so long as it flows and is sung well, that's always been my main concern.
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« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2018, 09:09:25 AM »

The problem is that the only person willing to touch this collection is Mike Love, and as KDS pointed out above, Unleash the Love is a huge reason why Mike shouldn’t go anywhere near re-mixing an album.

After listening to Unleash the Love I’m confident in saying that Mike could actually make SIP sound worse. I can see him in the studio booth really bobbin his head to ‘Summer of Love’, then a lightbulb goes off and he proudly announces the only problem with SIP is that there’s no autotune on the tracks...oh, and lets throw in Mark McGrath to do some “Do it!” overdubs on ‘Forever’.

I can admit, Carl sounds angelic on this album. But Carl could also sing the words on the back of a Clorox bottle and it’d sound beautiful. Doesn’t mean there’s any content behind what’s being sung. Personally, I think the best part of this album already got its due on the MiC boxset with the inclusion of the live version of ‘Summer in Paradise’. That’s probably the only song salvageable and that live version is probably the best it will ever sound.
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« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2018, 09:12:54 AM »

The UK version was already an improvement, and the vocals on the album are pretty good. I believe there's an album hidden in that train wreck. If I were Mike, I'd remix the damn thing, even if it had to be for my own money. Mike can afford it, and the label, whichever it was, ought to distribute it. But, Mike's a proud and stubborn fellow, "Looking Back With Love" is still missing on CD.

Realistically, what would it cost to book a studio and a good drummer? That's all it takes. Wipe the old drum track and you're good. Who should he choose as drummer? Hal Blaine would be too old. Is he even alive?

Mike and BRI have got nothing to lose. As it is, it is OOP and out of mind. They have all but dissociated themselves from it, it is an embarrassment to them.



Stamos could do it.  Stamos.
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« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2018, 09:13:17 AM »

The problem is that the only person willing to touch this collection is Mike Love, and as KDS pointed out above, Unleash the Love is a huge reason why Mike shouldn’t go anywhere near re-mixing an album.

After listening to Unleash the Love I’m confident in saying that Mike could actually make SIP sound worse. I can see him in the studio booth really bobbin his head to ‘Summer of Love’, then a lightbulb goes off and he proudly announces the only problem with SIP is that there’s no autotune on the tracks...oh, and lets throw in Mark McGrath to do some “Do it!” overdubs on ‘Forever’.

I can admit, Carl sounds angelic on this album. But Carl could also sing the words on the back of a Clorox bottle and it’d sound beautiful. Doesn’t mean there’s any content behind what’s being sung. Personally, I think the best part of this album already got its due on the MiC boxset with the inclusion of the live version of ‘Summer in Paradise’. That’s probably the only song salvageable and that live version is probably the best it will ever sound.

The live version of the title track is pretty good.  I wouldn't mind hearing more live cuts from the album get released, but unless there's a live anthology or another career spanning boxset in the works, it's probably pretty unlikely.  
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« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2018, 09:17:21 AM »

Well, I actually think Summer of Love is fun and I love the drum sounds on the album. Why do some people want everything to sound like Pet Sounds or Sunflower? SIP is not a masterpiece, nor it's meant to sound like one. It's just a corny, cheesy and (partly) horrible album. I can't stand that Forever cover. But overall the album has it's charm - and those cheesy drums are a huge part of it.

Saying the drums sound like garbage on SIP has nothing to do with "Pet Sounds" or "Sunflower" (for the record, for very different reasons than SIP, I have very mixed feelings about the drums on BB records going all the way back to the 60s, another discussion for another time).

The SIP drums aren't even quaint, nostalgic 80s cheesy drums like those found on the '85 album. They're bad samples, programmed/performed poorly and stiffly. "Maybe I Don't Know" from the '85 album sounds like John Bonham compared to the power behind those SIP drums. They have no low end. They're shrill. It's mostly due to the poor electronic programming and technology used, and also I'm sure SIP also sounds shrill and thin overall because of poor mixing and mastering decisions. The likely lack of higher resolution at the recording source on that Beta version of ProTools probably didn't help either.

Guess what else sounds very similar in sound to SIP? The actual track "Still Cruisin'", also produced and co-written by Terry Melcher, and also using awful electronic drum samples.

It has often been said that SIP seemed to be made based on the idea of making a whole album of "Kokomos", but if you want to find the blueprint for SIP, it's in the recording of "Still Cruisin'."

Compare that to "Somewhere Near Japan", which itself is no audiophile masterpiece either. But SNJ sounds like it has real drums. Even with still somewhat thin/shrill mixing and mastering, it sounds much better production-wise. So if Melcher had just used analog gear and real drums, his stuff would have sounded a little better at least.
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« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2018, 09:23:52 AM »

The problem is that the only person willing to touch this collection is Mike Love, and as KDS pointed out above, Unleash the Love is a huge reason why Mike shouldn’t go anywhere near re-mixing an album.

After listening to Unleash the Love I’m confident in saying that Mike could actually make SIP sound worse. I can see him in the studio booth really bobbin his head to ‘Summer of Love’, then a lightbulb goes off and he proudly announces the only problem with SIP is that there’s no autotune on the tracks...oh, and lets throw in Mark McGrath to do some “Do it!” overdubs on ‘Forever’.

I can admit, Carl sounds angelic on this album. But Carl could also sing the words on the back of a Clorox bottle and it’d sound beautiful. Doesn’t mean there’s any content behind what’s being sung. Personally, I think the best part of this album already got its due on the MiC boxset with the inclusion of the live version of ‘Summer in Paradise’. That’s probably the only song salvageable and that live version is probably the best it will ever sound.

The live version of the title track is pretty good.  I wouldn't mind hearing more live cuts from the album get released, but unless there's a live anthology or another career spanning boxset in the works, it's probably pretty unlikely.  

I honestly wouldn’t mind the release of such live material either. I’m far from a fan of this album, but that live MiC track isn’t bad (I listen to it sometimes), and I’d be curious to see how they handled other material from this album...fully knowing I probably still wouldn’t like it, but it would be interesting to hear.

The Wild Honey era Live tracks recently released give me hope that we’ll see a treasure-trove of live material in the coming years.
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« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2018, 09:24:55 AM »

The problem is that the only person willing to touch this collection is Mike Love, and as KDS pointed out above, Unleash the Love is a huge reason why Mike shouldn’t go anywhere near re-mixing an album.

After listening to Unleash the Love I’m confident in saying that Mike could actually make SIP sound worse. I can see him in the studio booth really bobbin his head to ‘Summer of Love’, then a lightbulb goes off and he proudly announces the only problem with SIP is that there’s no autotune on the tracks...oh, and lets throw in Mark McGrath to do some “Do it!” overdubs on ‘Forever’.

I can admit, Carl sounds angelic on this album. But Carl could also sing the words on the back of a Clorox bottle and it’d sound beautiful. Doesn’t mean there’s any content behind what’s being sung. Personally, I think the best part of this album already got its due on the MiC boxset with the inclusion of the live version of ‘Summer in Paradise’. That’s probably the only song salvageable and that live version is probably the best it will ever sound.

The live version of the title track is pretty good.  I wouldn't mind hearing more live cuts from the album get released, but unless there's a live anthology or another career spanning boxset in the works, it's probably pretty unlikely.  

I suppose SIP was the least noxious of the songs aired in the live setlist. But nothing from SIP ever sounded that great live. They were already hindered by Mike Kowalski on drums, which really marred most everything. But the band, beyond Mike and maybe Bruce, never seemed enthused about the SIP stuff. Carl and Al seemed bored, and their vocals were always professional, but they performed the SIP stuff as passionless as they did the stuff that they had been doing non-stop for 30+ years.

I've heard all the live SIP tracks, and while I wouldn't oppose their inclusion on a HUGE career-spanning live boxed set, they never were anything noteworthy. Al always sounded bored on "Under the Boardwalk"; Mike sounded weirdly extra nasal and lacking power on "..Boardwalk" and "Hot Fun in the Summertime." The remake of "Surfin'" was ridiculous in any format.

Why *this* was kept in the setlist for multiple years I have no idea:

https://youtu.be/Dn905_69mKk?t=6m1s
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« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2018, 09:32:25 AM »

The problem is that the only person willing to touch this collection is Mike Love, and as KDS pointed out above, Unleash the Love is a huge reason why Mike shouldn’t go anywhere near re-mixing an album.

After listening to Unleash the Love I’m confident in saying that Mike could actually make SIP sound worse. I can see him in the studio booth really bobbin his head to ‘Summer of Love’, then a lightbulb goes off and he proudly announces the only problem with SIP is that there’s no autotune on the tracks...oh, and lets throw in Mark McGrath to do some “Do it!” overdubs on ‘Forever’.

I can admit, Carl sounds angelic on this album. But Carl could also sing the words on the back of a Clorox bottle and it’d sound beautiful. Doesn’t mean there’s any content behind what’s being sung. Personally, I think the best part of this album already got its due on the MiC boxset with the inclusion of the live version of ‘Summer in Paradise’. That’s probably the only song salvageable and that live version is probably the best it will ever sound.

The live version of the title track is pretty good.  I wouldn't mind hearing more live cuts from the album get released, but unless there's a live anthology or another career spanning boxset in the works, it's probably pretty unlikely.  

I suppose SIP was the least noxious of the songs aired in the live setlist. But nothing from SIP ever sounded that great live. They were already hindered by Mike Kowalski on drums, which really marred most everything. But the band, beyond Mike and maybe Bruce, never seemed enthused about the SIP stuff. Carl and Al seemed bored, and their vocals were always professional, but they performed the SIP stuff as passionless as they did the stuff that they had been doing non-stop for 30+ years.

I've heard all the live SIP tracks, and while I wouldn't oppose their inclusion on a HUGE career-spanning live boxed set, they never were anything noteworthy. Al always sounded bored on "Under the Boardwalk"; Mike sounded weirdly extra nasal and lacking power on "..Boardwalk" and "Hot Fun in the Summertime." The remake of "Surfin'" was ridiculous in any format.

Why *this* was kept in the setlist for multiple years I have no idea:

https://youtu.be/Dn905_69mKk?t=6m1s

I think the Under the Boardwalk cover and Surfin 92 are two of the reasons SIP has the reputation it has.   I'd rather hear live cuts of something like Strange Things Happen or Lahaia Aloha.   
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« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2018, 09:33:51 AM »

Well, I actually think Summer of Love is fun and I love the drum sounds on the album. Why do some people want everything to sound like Pet Sounds or Sunflower? SIP is not a masterpiece, nor it's meant to sound like one. It's just a corny, cheesy and (partly) horrible album. I can't stand that Forever cover. But overall the album has it's charm - and those cheesy drums are a huge part of it.

Saying the drums sound like garbage on SIP has nothing to do with "Pet Sounds" or "Sunflower" (for the record, for very different reasons than SIP, I have very mixed feelings about the drums on BB records going all the way back to the 60s, another discussion for another time).

The SIP drums aren't even quaint, nostalgic 80s cheesy drums like those found on the '85 album. They're bad samples, programmed/performed poorly and stiffly. "Maybe I Don't Know" from the '85 album sounds like John Bonham compared to the power behind those SIP drums. They have no low end. They're shrill. It's mostly due to the poor electronic programming and technology used, and also I'm sure SIP also sounds shrill and thin overall because of poor mixing and mastering decisions. The likely lack of higher resolution at the recording source on that Beta version of ProTools probably didn't help either.

Guess what else sounds very similar in sound to SIP? The actual track "Still Cruisin'", also produced and co-written by Terry Melcher, and also using awful electronic drum samples.

It has often been said that SIP seemed to be made based on the idea of making a whole album of "Kokomos", but if you want to find the blueprint for SIP, it's in the recording of "Still Cruisin'."

Compare that to "Somewhere Near Japan", which itself is no audiophile masterpiece either. But SNJ sounds like it has real drums. Even with still somewhat thin/shrill mixing and mastering, it sounds much better production-wise. So if Melcher had just used analog gear and real drums, his stuff would have sounded a little better at least.

I’m glad you brought up the ‘85 album....I was thinking the same thing. It’s 80s cheese all around, but it’s good sounding 80s cheese...and the songs aren’t half bad on that album either (no mention of law degrees or catching some rare sub-continental pathogen from a travel brochure).

And yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen any fan say they want every album to sound like ‘Sunflower’ or ‘Pet Sounds’. I can appreciate the 80s nostalgia of BB85, the garage band sound of Surfin Safari, I even like the odd sound of MIU, whilst still realizing that SIP is horrendously produced/written/recorded.
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« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2018, 09:42:15 AM »

Well, I actually think Summer of Love is fun and I love the drum sounds on the album. Why do some people want everything to sound like Pet Sounds or Sunflower? SIP is not a masterpiece, nor it's meant to sound like one. It's just a corny, cheesy and (partly) horrible album. I can't stand that Forever cover. But overall the album has it's charm - and those cheesy drums are a huge part of it.

Saying the drums sound like garbage on SIP has nothing to do with "Pet Sounds" or "Sunflower" (for the record, for very different reasons than SIP, I have very mixed feelings about the drums on BB records going all the way back to the 60s, another discussion for another time).

The SIP drums aren't even quaint, nostalgic 80s cheesy drums like those found on the '85 album. They're bad samples, programmed/performed poorly and stiffly. "Maybe I Don't Know" from the '85 album sounds like John Bonham compared to the power behind those SIP drums. They have no low end. They're shrill. It's mostly due to the poor electronic programming and technology used, and also I'm sure SIP also sounds shrill and thin overall because of poor mixing and mastering decisions. The likely lack of higher resolution at the recording source on that Beta version of ProTools probably didn't help either.

Guess what else sounds very similar in sound to SIP? The actual track "Still Cruisin'", also produced and co-written by Terry Melcher, and also using awful electronic drum samples.

It has often been said that SIP seemed to be made based on the idea of making a whole album of "Kokomos", but if you want to find the blueprint for SIP, it's in the recording of "Still Cruisin'."

Compare that to "Somewhere Near Japan", which itself is no audiophile masterpiece either. But SNJ sounds like it has real drums. Even with still somewhat thin/shrill mixing and mastering, it sounds much better production-wise. So if Melcher had just used analog gear and real drums, his stuff would have sounded a little better at least.

I’m glad you brought up the ‘85 album....I was thinking the same thing. It’s 80s cheese all around, but it’s good sounding 80s cheese...and the songs aren’t half bad on that album either (no mention of law degrees or catching some rare sub-continental pathogen from a travel brochure).

And yeah, I don’t think I’ve seen any fan say they want every album to sound like ‘Sunflower’ or ‘Pet Sounds’. I can appreciate the 80s nostalgia of BB85, the garage band sound of Surfin Safari, I even like the odd sound of MIU, whilst still realizing that SIP is horrendously produced/written/recorded.

Right, BB85 is very much a product of it's time.  But the production / sound of SIP is..........unique. 
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« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2018, 09:59:26 AM »

I've been listening to the '85 album a lot lately randomly, and it has grown on me over the years.

Despite the band's huge dip into digital recording and a lot of digital instrumentation, the album actually has some warmth to it, much more so than SC or SIP. There are still moments where the production is silly and over the top even after all these years (e.g. "Crack at Your Love"), but overall it has aged better over time.

More importantly, I think some of the BB '85 songs are better. Brian's songs are ironically among the weakest. But Carl's songs are solid compositions, and I think even something like "Passing Friend" is catchy, and stuff like that one and "I Do Love You" allow the band to spread out ever-so-slightly into something a tiny bit outside of their wheelhouse.  
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« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2018, 10:20:24 AM »

I've been listening to the '85 album a lot lately randomly, and it has grown on me over the years.

Despite the band's huge dip into digital recording and a lot of digital instrumentation, the album actually has some warmth to it, much more so than SC or SIP. There are still moments where the production is silly and over the top even after all these years (e.g. "Crack at Your Love"), but overall it has aged better over time.

More importantly, I think some of the BB '85 songs are better. Brian's songs are ironically among the weakest. But Carl's songs are solid compositions, and I think even something like "Passing Friend" is catchy, and stuff like that one and "I Do Love You" allow the band to spread out ever-so-slightly into something a tiny bit outside of their wheelhouse.  

Years ago, before I actually bothered to look at the writing credits, I assumed Getcha Back was a Brian song, and that California Calling was surely a Mike Love penned song. When I found out Brian co-wrote the latter with Al I was thrown for a loop. I agree his songs are the weakest, but I do have a soft spot for ‘I’m So Lonely’....though I wish Carl had done the falsetto on the chorus.

But anywho, agreed fully about the album, sometimes its cheesy, but it’s overall warm and well done.
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« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2018, 11:36:10 AM »

SIP is a Mike Love solo album....
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And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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