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Author Topic: Still Cruisin and SIP should be in the core catalogue.  (Read 3232 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2018, 09:41:16 AM »


Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR). 

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material. 

Wow.
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« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2018, 09:48:21 AM »


Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR). 

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material. 

Wow.

I'm not sure why it warrants a "wow."  You have to admit that much of the Beach Boys music post Holland (heck, you can make the agrument for post Good Vibrations) has a pretty niche appeal.  Despite what gets posted here, and other BB forums, there's a reason that those songs don't make it into setlists for either touring band very much. 
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« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2018, 09:59:33 AM »


Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR).  

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material.  

Wow.

I'm not sure why it warrants a "wow."  You have to admit that much of the Beach Boys music post Holland (heck, you can make the agrument for post Good Vibrations) has a pretty niche appeal.  Despite what gets posted here, and other BB forums, there's a reason that those songs don't make it into setlists for either touring band very much.  

Generally speaking, message boards like this *are* that niche. So yeah, no big deal, but wow for sure. Especially to the idea that Brian's last special/amazing BB track is "'Til I Die." You gotta do some digging, but there's amazing stuff well after *1970*, which is when "'Til I Die" was recorded.

In terms of front-to-back strong albums, the BBs are a huge mixed bag in the post-mid-70s era. But there are still many, many very, very strong tracks. Some Dennis and Carl tracks on "LA" are excellent. KTSA has some moments ("Goin' On" is a semi lost classic, and Al's "Santa Ana Winds" is great). I actually think many of the BB '85 songs are pretty catchy. Super mixed bag in this era, no question. (And that actually goes to some degree for stuff in the earlier era as well). But I for one am a student of their whole career; I've never really delineated any arbitrary cut-off points where my base level of interest isn't there (with I suppose the exception specifically of the post-Al/Carl era of the touring band, and frankly even then I probably ironically know more about Mike's touring band's history than many of its biggest fans).

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« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2018, 10:00:40 AM »

For those that can't get past the arrangement/production on "Love You" (I can myself), the 1976 "Love You/Adult Child" piano demo tape shows how great many of those compositions are.

"Mona" and to a lesser degree "Love is a Woman" are rather dispensable. Pretty much everything else I've always enjoyed.

Objectively, "Love You" is much more unified, smooth *album* experience.

Whereas, with SC it takes like 27 qualifiers just to explain the stuff one likes about the album. "Well, if you get rid of the three oldies and the rap duet, and discount the already-released tracks, and keep in mind how Landy would only loan Brian out to the band on an hourly basis, and then take into account the internecine band politics of the era, then you have almost 1/2 of a not-too-bad album!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

But yeah, I dig several of the tracks on the album. It's objectively not a good *album* in the literal sense. It's only 50 or 60% a *new* album, and even *those* new tracks, while generally okay-to-good-to-very-good, aren't A+ material.

It's not so much the production of Love You.   Personally, I just don't think the songs are that great.  More unified album?  Sure. 

The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You. 

But, speaking of disjointed, 20/20 is one of my favorite Beach Boys albums. 

Brian's piano demos for "I'll Bet He's Nice" and "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" (among others) really do *nothing* for you? Some of the moments on that tape are some of the most amazing Brian/BB moments ever caught on tape, certainly when we're talking about the post-mid-70s era.

Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR). 

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material. 

To add to HeyJudeís point: the ĎIíll Bet Heís Niceí demo track is one of the greatest Brian&Mike moments ever. You get to be a fly on the wall during one of the most special moments between band members: when a demo is shown to the band and a magical part happens that lights a fire of excitement between all the members. Mike is legitimately excited when that middle eight is played, and itís one of those rare moments we fans rarely get to see or hear. Like Iíve always wanted to hear Mikeís reaction to Brian playing an early demo idea of Fun Fun Fun, we canít hear that moment, but we can imagine it would be a lot like what we hear in this Love You demo track.

I think thatís one aspect of why people find those demos special. Another being that in those chords and melodies are songs that could easily fit on Pet Sounds (not necessarily the lyrics or production). Love You is Brian at the helm of his own muse, not really being influenced by anyone but himself...itís a phenomenal glimpse into his mindset.

Itís an album I would never play in front of people, nor would I go out of my way to tell anyone outside the fan base that I really love it. So I can completely sympathize with people that donít like it. Itís weird, the production is weird, the lyrics are weird, the singing isnít the best. But behind all the bad is a foundation of honesty and really brilliant songwriting.
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« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2018, 10:04:20 AM »

For sure, *part* of the amazing nature of that 1976 demo tape is what's happening outside of the musical performances. Mike not only supporting and encouraging Brian, but Mike displaying a specific, personal ability to discern what an amazing *chord change* specifically is. Mike noticing the amazing chord change/turn at the very end of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" is an amazing moment. Mike (and presumably at least one other member?) cheering Brian on as he hits the bridge of "I'll Bet He's Nice" might be one of the most amazing *things* ever caught on tape concerning the band.
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« Reply #55 on: January 05, 2018, 10:09:12 AM »


Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR).  

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material.  

Wow.

I'm not sure why it warrants a "wow."  You have to admit that much of the Beach Boys music post Holland (heck, you can make the agrument for post Good Vibrations) has a pretty niche appeal.  Despite what gets posted here, and other BB forums, there's a reason that those songs don't make it into setlists for either touring band very much.  

Generally speaking, message boards like this *are* that niche. So yeah, no big deal, but wow for sure. Especially to the idea that Brian's last special/amazing BB track is "'Til I Die." You gotta do some digging, but there's amazing stuff well after *1970*, which is when "'Til I Die" was recorded.

In terms of front-to-back strong albums, the BBs are a huge mixed bag in the post-mid-70s era. But there are still many, many very, very strong tracks. Some Dennis and Carl tracks on "LA" are excellent. KTSA has some moments ("Goin' On" is a semi lost classic, and Al's "Santa Ana Winds" is great). I actually think many of the BB '85 songs are pretty catchy. Super mixed bag in this era, no question. (And that actually goes to some degree for stuff in the earlier era as well). But I for one am a student of their whole career; I've never really delineated any arbitrary cut-off points where my base level of interest isn't there (with I suppose the exception specifically of the post-Al/Carl era of the touring band, and frankly even then I probably ironically know more about Mike's touring band's history than many of its biggest fans).



Don't get me wrong.   I like a lot of what Brian and The Beach Boys did post 1970.  I actually think MIU, LA, BB85, and SC are very underrated.  And I love TWGMTR.  (and I'm not including some of BW's solo material of which I'm a fan because I specifically said songs for The Beach Boys).  I'm just saying that the quality of those songs doesn't come close to the amazing music of the 1960s and early 70s. 

Just because I tend to gravitate towards the material from 1962-73 doesn't mean I don't celebrate their entire career. 
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« Reply #56 on: January 05, 2018, 10:16:18 AM »

As for the main point of this thread. I almost have to agree that these albums deserve to be in the catalogue.

So I think Still Cruisin has one of the best versions of WIBN Iíve ever heard - Iím not sure if it was used for a single or what, but Brianís vocal take is really unique. Secondly, itís got Kokomo on it, and it is one of their number one hits. I donít care for many of the songs on it but I spin it on vinyl from time to time.

Summer In Paradise should be accessible for all to hear just how friggin bad things got for this band. The album is such an embarrassment that even the band doesnít want to put it on a streaming service even though it would basically be free money for them.

Iím really indifferent about SIP being in the catalogue, but I think itís great that they donít even sell this rot anymore...makes me wonder if theyíll do a copyright extension release for the SIP sessions Grin
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« Reply #57 on: January 05, 2018, 10:32:39 AM »

yes, they should be in the catalog.  Still Cruisin features one of the best latter day BB songs in SNJ and SIP needs to be included for the unbelievable vocals of both Al and Carl.
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« Reply #58 on: January 05, 2018, 10:36:02 AM »

This is such a crazy discussion.  Of course they are BB albums.  Do we even need to explain why?  

However, I disagree with HeyJudeís assertion that SIP is easy to find on used CD.  It took years of searching for my husband to find it (and he is a crazy CD fiend who browses used CD stores, thrift stores etc...a few times a week).  In my experience, a zillion copies of Still Cruisin are available but very few of SIP.  

It's certainly all relative. I wouldn't expect to find SIP in 2018 in any random used CD bin. If you only shop at brick-and-mortar stores, then all bets are off. I wouldn't expect to find the majority of the BB or solo catalog. But usually, there are five to ten or more copies up on eBay. As with most items, the prices range from ridiculously high to pretty low. But finished eBay auction searches show dozens of copies have been sold in the last few months, as low as $10.

Amazon also has a half dozen copies of the CD under $25, which isn't bad for a CD that sold very few copies and has been out of print for most of the last 25 years.

So I'd stick by the general assertion that it doesn't take much looking or much money to find SIP on CD. If you're only willing to pay under $10 and old look at brick-and-mortar used CD shops and thrift shops, then yeah, it'll probably be pretty challenging.

It's actually harder to find (and more expensive) to get a physical CD copy of the 2000 "MIU/LA" two-fer CD at this point, as that *one* particular two-fer has been out of print for awhile.

Huh.  When we were looking for it it was also ridiculously expensive on EBay and Amazon, etc... but that was a couple of years ago so maybe things have changed somewhat?  But I do remember that online we could only find it for like 80 bucks and up (no joke).  When we finally did stumble across a copy we felt like weíd found a jackpot. Also, this is in Canada so not sure if that makes a difference.  

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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2018, 10:39:22 AM »

Love You is Brian at the helm of his own muse, not really being influenced by anyone but himself...itís a phenomenal glimpse into his mindset.

Itís an album I would never play in front of people, nor would I go out of my way to tell anyone outside the fan base that I really love it. So I can completely sympathize with people that donít like it. Itís weird, the production is weird, the lyrics are weird, the singing isnít the best. But behind all the bad is a foundation of honesty and really brilliant songwriting.

It's nice to hear somebody who loves Love You admit that. One of the first threads I read after becoming obsessed with the Beach Boys and discovering this forum was a pile-on about Love You, with many posters essentially claiming that you're not a real fan unless you love that album. Which blew my mind, because I can find almost nothing enjoyable on Love You. I don't care for the arrangements, the production or lyrics. Instrumentation is grating, and the vocals, to my ear, are downright embarrassing.  So y'all lose me when you praise Love You on the merit of its songs.

What I sort of understand is context, and I've concluded that context must be the primary reason so many posters here love that album. It was truly Brian at the helm after everything else that was going on, it offers some kind of glimpse into Brian's mind or the band at the time, blah blah blah. Of course I argue that a truly good song or album is viscerally good, divorced from context. One should not need to understand the participants, their mindsets or backstories, in order to enjoy the album. This is why you won't play it in front of people, because on it's own, it makes people want to jump off a tall building. Just for fun, I play Love You at least once, front to back, for my high school computer programming students.  Every time, without fail, they revolt.

But yeah, I get context. And I'll readily admit that context is part of my affinity for Still Cruisin'. I must have been 12 years old when an uncle gifted it to me during a remote, multi-day lake trip. I listened to that album over and over again in my Walkman as I sat in the back of a boat and hiked along the shoreline. So I suppose I do cut it some slack.  That said, those vocals. Dang.
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« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2018, 10:39:45 AM »

This is such a crazy discussion.  Of course they are BB albums.  Do we even need to explain why?  

However, I disagree with HeyJudeís assertion that SIP is easy to find on used CD.  It took years of searching for my husband to find it (and he is a crazy CD fiend who browses used CD stores, thrift stores etc...a few times a week).  In my experience, a zillion copies of Still Cruisin are available but very few of SIP.  

It's certainly all relative. I wouldn't expect to find SIP in 2018 in any random used CD bin. If you only shop at brick-and-mortar stores, then all bets are off. I wouldn't expect to find the majority of the BB or solo catalog. But usually, there are five to ten or more copies up on eBay. As with most items, the prices range from ridiculously high to pretty low. But finished eBay auction searches show dozens of copies have been sold in the last few months, as low as $10.

Amazon also has a half dozen copies of the CD under $25, which isn't bad for a CD that sold very few copies and has been out of print for most of the last 25 years.

So I'd stick by the general assertion that it doesn't take much looking or much money to find SIP on CD. If you're only willing to pay under $10 and old look at brick-and-mortar used CD shops and thrift shops, then yeah, it'll probably be pretty challenging.

It's actually harder to find (and more expensive) to get a physical CD copy of the 2000 "MIU/LA" two-fer CD at this point, as that *one* particular two-fer has been out of print for awhile.

Huh.  When we were looking for it it was also ridiculously expensive on EBay and Amazon, etc... but that was a couple of years ago so maybe things have changed somewhat?  But I do remember that online we could only find it for like 80 bucks and up (no joke).  When we finally did stumble across a copy we felt like weíd found a jackpot. Also, this is in Canada so not sure if that makes a difference.  



I have noticed that in the last five or so years (give or take), the going prices for physical media and especially CDs in general have taken a pretty good plunge. So it could well be the case that an SIP CD is easier to find and cheaper now than five or even ten years ago.

Even a lot of old audiophile gold CDs from MFSL and DCC, etc. that used to go for big bucks are hard to unload now. I think just a lot of people have switched over to streaming music, and even audiophiles now can go to true high-rez via download. So CDs aren't seeing as much demand anymore.

Places like Barnes & Noble seem to have more *vinyl* than CDs now for crying out loud. (Just don't tell anyone buying that vinyl that some of those "high quality" vinyl pressings they're buying are mastered from 16/44.1 CD sources!).
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« Reply #61 on: January 05, 2018, 10:40:56 AM »

This is such a crazy discussion.  Of course they are BB albums.  Do we even need to explain why?  

However, I disagree with HeyJudeís assertion that SIP is easy to find on used CD.  It took years of searching for my husband to find it (and he is a crazy CD fiend who browses used CD stores, thrift stores etc...a few times a week).  In my experience, a zillion copies of Still Cruisin are available but very few of SIP.  

It's certainly all relative. I wouldn't expect to find SIP in 2018 in any random used CD bin. If you only shop at brick-and-mortar stores, then all bets are off. I wouldn't expect to find the majority of the BB or solo catalog. But usually, there are five to ten or more copies up on eBay. As with most items, the prices range from ridiculously high to pretty low. But finished eBay auction searches show dozens of copies have been sold in the last few months, as low as $10.

Amazon also has a half dozen copies of the CD under $25, which isn't bad for a CD that sold very few copies and has been out of print for most of the last 25 years.

So I'd stick by the general assertion that it doesn't take much looking or much money to find SIP on CD. If you're only willing to pay under $10 and old look at brick-and-mortar used CD shops and thrift shops, then yeah, it'll probably be pretty challenging.

It's actually harder to find (and more expensive) to get a physical CD copy of the 2000 "MIU/LA" two-fer CD at this point, as that *one* particular two-fer has been out of print for awhile.

Huh.  When we were looking for it it was also ridiculously expensive on EBay and Amazon, etc... but that was a couple of years ago so maybe things have changed somewhat?  But I do remember that online we could only find it for like 80 bucks and up (no joke).  When we finally did stumble across a copy we felt like weíd found a jackpot. Also, this is in Canada so not sure if that makes a difference.  



When I was completing my BB CD collection in 2014, I noticed a lot of SIP CDs going for crazy prices too.  I got one for $15 I think on eBay (I think it was discounted because it didn't include the poster insert and the case isn't in good shape).  Right now, on Amazon, you can get a copy of just over $20, or a UK version for just over $40.  

At the same time, I had trouble finding the MIU / LA 2 fer, as most copies were going for $40-$50.   I think I paid $20 on Amazon Marketplace.  Right now, the cheapest on Amazon is $40.
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« Reply #62 on: January 05, 2018, 11:43:04 AM »

That these two albums aren't even available for streaming speaks volumes .....
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« Reply #63 on: January 05, 2018, 12:12:18 PM »

That these two albums aren't even available for streaming speaks volumes .....

Really? Cause there's a lot of excellent material by other bands (Wondermints comes most immediately to mind) that also isn't available for streaming. And the fact that Love You is available for streaming tells me it ain't about quality.
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« Reply #64 on: January 05, 2018, 12:15:41 PM »

Love You is Brian at the helm of his own muse, not really being influenced by anyone but himself...itís a phenomenal glimpse into his mindset.

Itís an album I would never play in front of people, nor would I go out of my way to tell anyone outside the fan base that I really love it. So I can completely sympathize with people that donít like it. Itís weird, the production is weird, the lyrics are weird, the singing isnít the best. But behind all the bad is a foundation of honesty and really brilliant songwriting.

It's nice to hear somebody who loves Love You admit that. One of the first threads I read after becoming obsessed with the Beach Boys and discovering this forum was a pile-on about Love You, with many posters essentially claiming that you're not a real fan unless you love that album. Which blew my mind, because I can find almost nothing enjoyable on Love You. I don't care for the arrangements, the production or lyrics. Instrumentation is grating, and the vocals, to my ear, are downright embarrassing.  So y'all lose me when you praise Love You on the merit of its songs.

What I sort of understand is context, and I've concluded that context must be the primary reason so many posters here love that album. It was truly Brian at the helm after everything else that was going on, it offers some kind of glimpse into Brian's mind or the band at the time, blah blah blah. Of course I argue that a truly good song or album is viscerally good, divorced from context. One should not need to understand the participants, their mindsets or backstories, in order to enjoy the album. This is why you won't play it in front of people, because on it's own, it makes people want to jump off a tall building. Just for fun, I play Love You at least once, front to back, for my high school computer programming students.  Every time, without fail, they revolt.

But yeah, I get context. And I'll readily admit that context is part of my affinity for Still Cruisin'. I must have been 12 years old when an uncle gifted it to me during a remote, multi-day lake trip. I listened to that album over and over again in my Walkman as I sat in the back of a boat and hiked along the shoreline. So I suppose I do cut it some slack.  That said, those vocals. Dang.

When I first got into The Beach Boys and started getting on these forums, I heard so many great things about Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland, and Love You.   And I couldn't wait to listen to them.  I fell in love with Friends, Sunflower, Surfs Up, and Holland, but not Love You.   I tried listening to it a few times, but still nothing. 
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« Reply #65 on: January 05, 2018, 12:18:50 PM »

Love You is Brian at the helm of his own muse, not really being influenced by anyone but himself...itís a phenomenal glimpse into his mindset.

Itís an album I would never play in front of people, nor would I go out of my way to tell anyone outside the fan base that I really love it. So I can completely sympathize with people that donít like it. Itís weird, the production is weird, the lyrics are weird, the singing isnít the best. But behind all the bad is a foundation of honesty and really brilliant songwriting.

It's nice to hear somebody who loves Love You admit that. One of the first threads I read after becoming obsessed with the Beach Boys and discovering this forum was a pile-on about Love You, with many posters essentially claiming that you're not a real fan unless you love that album. Which blew my mind, because I can find almost nothing enjoyable on Love You. I don't care for the arrangements, the production or lyrics. Instrumentation is grating, and the vocals, to my ear, are downright embarrassing.  So y'all lose me when you praise Love You on the merit of its songs.

What I sort of understand is context, and I've concluded that context must be the primary reason so many posters here love that album. It was truly Brian at the helm after everything else that was going on, it offers some kind of glimpse into Brian's mind or the band at the time, blah blah blah. Of course I argue that a truly good song or album is viscerally good, divorced from context. One should not need to understand the participants, their mindsets or backstories, in order to enjoy the album. This is why you won't play it in front of people, because on it's own, it makes people want to jump off a tall building. Just for fun, I play Love You at least once, front to back, for my high school computer programming students.  Every time, without fail, they revolt.

But yeah, I get context. And I'll readily admit that context is part of my affinity for Still Cruisin'. I must have been 12 years old when an uncle gifted it to me during a remote, multi-day lake trip. I listened to that album over and over again in my Walkman as I sat in the back of a boat and hiked along the shoreline. So I suppose I do cut it some slack.  That said, those vocals. Dang.

When I first got into The Beach Boys and started getting on these forums, I heard so many great things about Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland, and Love You.   And I couldn't wait to listen to them.  I fell in love with Friends, Sunflower, Surfs Up, and Holland, but not Love You.   The fact that no Love You tracks cracked the Warmth of the Sun compilation, while there are several from Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, and Holland, should've been a red flag.  I tried listening to it a few times, but still nothing.  
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« Reply #66 on: January 05, 2018, 12:27:07 PM »

When I first got into The Beach Boys and started getting on these forums, I heard so many great things about Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland, and Love You.   And I couldn't wait to listen to them.  I fell in love with Friends, Sunflower, Surfs Up, and Holland, but not Love You.   I tried listening to it a few times, but still nothing.  

Same. Although I will say that when I list the attributes I love about the band and their music, most of them apply to the early 60's thru about Smiley Smile. I do love the Friends-Holland material, but it's different since overall that material lacks the majority of those core attributes. When I introduce new people (like my high school students) to the Beach Boys, I don't bother with anything post Smiley Smile.

For the record, I have tried dozens of times over the last 5 years or so to "get" Love you. No luck so far.

Also for the record, I've never heard SIP because a) I have little use for-- and no capability to play-- physical media, and b) it's so hated here that I just haven't bothered.  Would I buy it if it were available digitally? Of course. Which is why I'm so baffled that stuff like SIP and SC are not available.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 12:29:20 PM by bonnevillemariner » Logged
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« Reply #67 on: January 05, 2018, 12:49:47 PM »


The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You.  
 

I think that's a great and wholly accurate quote, that SC is an EP disguised as an album.

Same with SIP.

Which begs the question: why did the band have an aversion to just simply releasing EPs around this time? I guess the answer is $$, in that they'd get more upfront money for sales or to fulfill record contracts, right? Still seems like a ridiculous joke to pad out those 2 projects to make them "full albums" when CLEARLY there was not enough original content for those to actually pass as such.

Was it unheard of in that era for legacy bands to release EPs of new material?

If SC and SIP had both been EPs, scrapping the really bad stuff, they'd be much more highly regarded relatively speaking.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 12:57:45 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #68 on: January 05, 2018, 12:55:15 PM »

Both SC and SIP have something worth listening to.  Some really good songs, some fabulous vocals, guitar solos etc.

Both albums were promoted by the Beach Boys.

Both albums featured the Beach Boys.  Predominantly at the time the touring line up of Mike, Bruce, Carl, and Alan with occasional Brian appearances.

By Jeff's logic, TWGMTR wouldn't be a Beach Boys album as there was no Carl or Dennis.

Both albums are Beach Boys albums whether some people like it or not.  They should be re-issued, especially SIP as it's the only vinyl Beach Boys release I don't have!
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« Reply #69 on: January 05, 2018, 12:57:27 PM »

That these two albums aren't even available for streaming speaks volumes .....

Really? Cause there's a lot of excellent material by other bands (Wondermints comes most immediately to mind) that also isn't available for streaming. And the fact that Love You is available for streaming tells me it ain't about quality.

All good points, however it's possible for material by bands to be missing from streaming services for a variety of reasons, including that some bands aren't eager to remind the public of their lowest points. Look at Mike's facial expression when Brian mentions "Looking Back with Love" in the campfire sessions 1989 video; it's definite embarrassment for him and he doesn't want the album to be mentioned. I don't think SMiLE Brian's theory is super off base, especially in the case of SIP. And I say that as somebody who can kinda dig about an EP's worth of tracks from both SIP and SC.
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« Reply #70 on: January 05, 2018, 01:00:23 PM »


Both albums are Beach Boys albums whether some people like it or not.  They should be re-issued, especially SIP as it's the only vinyl Beach Boys release I don't have!

Speaking of SIP on vinyl, just how rare is it? I know there's a photo of one copy floating around the interwebs, a Korean (?) pressing, and possibly the only version that was made. Curious if it was actually mastered properly for vinyl from the master "tapes", and if that would have improved the sound quality a smidge. Or if it was just a one-off weird pressing for one market, maybe it was just dumped to vinyl in a cheapie, improper manner.

Just imagine the irony: a needledrop of the digitally-recorded SIP
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 01:01:38 PM by CenturyDeprived » Logged
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« Reply #71 on: January 05, 2018, 01:02:51 PM »

That these two albums aren't even available for streaming speaks volumes .....

Really? Cause there's a lot of excellent material by other bands (Wondermints comes most immediately to mind) that also isn't available for streaming. And the fact that Love You is available for streaming tells me it ain't about quality.
I had SC on CD and my iPhone, itís not available since itís a nadir of the BBs career, plus a political minefield due to the Landy era.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 01:04:22 PM by SMiLE Brian » Logged

And production aside, Iíd so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.-rab2591
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« Reply #72 on: January 05, 2018, 01:14:51 PM »


The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You. 
 

I think that's a great and wholly accurate quote, that SC is an EP disguised as an album.

Same with SIP.

Which begs the question: why did the band have an aversion to just simply releasing EPs around this time? I guess the answer is $$, in that they'd get more upfront money for sales or to fulfill record contracts, right? Still seems like a ridiculous joke to pad out those 2 projects to make them "full albums" when CLEARLY there was not enough original content for those to actually pass as such.

Was it unheard of in that era for legacy bands to release EPs of new material?

If SC and SIP had both been EPs, scraping the really bad stuff, they'd be much more highly regarded relatively speaking.

In many of these regards, I view SC and SIP as rather different.

With SC, getting the album out there was certainly motivated by Capitol giving them an *album* deal. I don't think an EP would have flown, and let's be honest, how many bands have ever done well with EP releases, especially in the 80s? In any event, there's some good discussion in an old "Still Cruisin'" thread that covers a lot of this, and I think it was guitarfool who snagged some contemporary articles, including some comments from a Capitol exec who seemed motivated and enthusiastic about getting the band a hit, and getting them to put together a good *album.*

What we don't know is if the "movie soundtrack" theme was there at the outset, or if they ever gave thought to just making a *new album* (with "Kokomo" tacked on because it was a hit). They certainly had an album's worth of truly new material. Al was working on tracks during that time including "Don't Fight the Sea."

In any event, at some point (if not at the outset), they went with the movie soundtrack theme. Mike Love gave an interview not too long after where he expressed frustration that politics bogged down the album. However, he felt it was the *original* songs that watered down the "soundtrack" concept. He wanted *less* new material there, singling out "Island Girl" and "In My Car" as seemingly political concessions.

So it's pretty funny, both fans and Mike Love feel the SC album was watered down, but for entirely opposite reasons!

But long story short, yes, certainly they were motivated by the money and album deal from Capitol to get an album out on the market. But I think they still had some level of motivation to wanting to be successful to maintain some sort of career as *recording* artists. As we all know, SC did okay and went gold, surely because it was the first product with "Kokomo" on it outside of the single and the "Cocktail" soundtrack.

SIP was entirely different. With no record deal, they ironically had to be quite pro-active about making the album. Or rather, Mike was pro-active about it. The band was in some degree of tatters at that time in 1991/1992. Brian was in the midst of being wrestled away from Landy, I believe the fake autobiography lawsuits started to happen around this time, and Al and Mike were starting to have whatever it is that was going on between them.

Mike's SIP album, as Wirestone explained in a great post some time back, is perhaps most noteworthy because it's *NOT* a rattled-off quickie album. It's Mike doing his *absolute best* and putting everything he's got into it. State of the art (for the time) recoding techniques, attention to detail crafting the songs and picking the covers. But it was a victim of Mike's total lack of credentials to know what critics wanted, or what fans wanted, or what would go over in the marketplace. I'm sure his idea wasn't quite as simplistic as "make an album of Kokomos", but that aspect was probably at play. So it was Mike's motivation (ironic that he picked *that* album to push hard) and the apparent lack of interest to intervene on the part of any other corporate members, that gave us SIP.
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« Reply #73 on: January 05, 2018, 01:21:12 PM »


Both albums are Beach Boys albums whether some people like it or not.  They should be re-issued, especially SIP as it's the only vinyl Beach Boys release I don't have!

Speaking of SIP on vinyl, just how rare is it? I know there's a photo of one copy floating around the interwebs, a Korean (?) pressing, and possibly the only version that was made. Curious if it was actually mastered properly for vinyl from the master "tapes", and if that would have improved the sound quality a smidge. Or if it was just a one-off weird pressing for one market, maybe it was just dumped to vinyl in a cheapie, improper manner.

Just imagine the irony: a needledrop of the digitally-recorded SIP

C-man or Alan Boyd might be able to speak to this more, but I would have to guess any weird vinyl pressing of SIP was mastered from a standard 16-bit/44.1 digital source, either DAT or a CD or something along those lines.

In fact, I'm guessing the Beta version of ProTools they used, probably 1.0 or something similar, maxed out around 16/44.1 CD resolution at the recording source.

The only way a vinyl pressing would sound better is if they had a DAT source that left out additional mastering moves (additional compression, etc.) added when mastered for CD.
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« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2018, 01:24:42 PM »

My vague recollection is that in the early-mid 90s, vinyl was still (proportionately) more popular in the UK than the US, so I'm surprised the 1993 revamped version of SIP (distributed by EMI) didn't get some sort of vinyl pressing.
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