The Smiley Smile Message Board

Summer In Paradise (especially) and Still Cruisin (to a slightly lesser extent) are pretty much universally despised, however, for the sake of history, I think they should be included in the band's official catalogue. To have the gap from BB85 to TWGMTR (aside from singles) is a very inaccurate way to display the band's productivity from 1985 to 2012. Two studio albums is a lot of work, even if most of the heavy lifting was by Mike and Terry Melcher.

I'm not even a huge fan of either of these records, so maybe its the OCD completest in me.

I've always considered them parts of the catalog.  But, I suppose the powers that be didn't think they were worth remastering or including in the 2fers. 

I think Still Cruisin, minus the Fat Boys song and the unnecessary inclusion of the three 60s classics, is actually a very enjoyable collection of later era BB songs. 

Summer in Paradise is, of course, marred by godawful production, and happens to include possibly the four of the worst songs The Beach Boys ever did (Surfin 92, Summer of Love, Remember Walkin in the Sand, and Under the Boardwalk).  Easily their worst album, but I don't think it deserves the hate that it receives. 

I agree. I without a doubt consider them part of the catalogue. But I think they should be available digitally, and, well, acknowledged other than Mike playing SIP in concert, and the live SIP on MIC.  Just because those were two rough albums, doesn't mean Capitol should pretend they don't exist. Besides, they've both got a lot of good stuff hidden in them. Somewhere Near Japan, Still Surfin, Strange Things Happen, to name a few

The availability of any given album, in terms of history and documenting the band, really doesn't impact what is part of the "core" catalog. "Still Cruisin'" and SIP are BB albums.

Both being out of print in some or all forms is really just a logistical issue separate from how they're considered.

Both are still easy to find used on CD, are probably easily found on YouTube, and at least "Still Cruisin'" looks like it might still be on Spotify. So it doesn't take much digging at all nor much money to get them if one is interested.

Capitol has nothing to do with the SIP album. Brother owns that album, and could presumably (with the okay of the board members) put it out digitally (and otherwise). Mike is probably the only member who would care, and even he seems minimally interested in album reissues and things of that nature.

Capitol does own "Still Cruisin'" (although some of the tracks back in 1989 were sub-licensed from other labels; which *may* explain it's on-and-off availability).

Since I've been on Spotify, I've noticed that some later era releases by legacy artists are not available, probably due to them being released on rinky dink labels. 

Oh that's interesting. I assumed when Capitol acquired the entire catalogue, SIP was included. Or did that take place before SIP was released?

The only reason I hedge on Spotify availability when doing a quick check is that even when I find links to albums, such as this one for SC:

https://open.spotify.com/album/230TbUfgA4VulpOAUFa7ad

I'm not able to presently sign in and check to see if it's actually available. I'm surprised that such links exist when they can't actually be accessed, but apparently that's the case with some of these (e.g. Al's "Postcards").

Capitol never acquired the full catalog. They only own the released albums and other released original-era Capitol material from 1962-1969.

All of the 1970-1986 "Brother Years" stuff is still owned by BRI and only *licensed* to Capitol.

I'm guessing when BRI has licensed the "Brother Years" stuff to Capitol, they simply cover the 1970-85/86 albums.

Couldn't disagree more with the premise of this thread.  Yes, a few guys calling themselves the Beach Boys put out a couple of albums in the late 80s and early 90s.  But they are at best Beach Boys tribute albums.  Not even that really.  And it certainly does not help the band to be associated with such drek.  Why wish for that?

Ban 'em both!  :old

You can argue the merit of the music contained on Still Cruisin and Summer in Paradise, but they're still Beach Boys albums.   

Well geez, they already exist and are out there. It's part of history, good, bad, ugly and everything in between.

I don't particularly hugely prioritize putting them back in print considering how easy they are to track down, but I'm not interested in erasing them from existence.

"Still Cruisin'" wasn't a "a few guys calling themselves the Beach Boys"; it has all five surviving members. Sure, it's a mish-mash and isn't very good overall, and Brian's involvement was rather manufactured. But where do you draw the line? Brian's barely a part of "LA (Light Album)"; Dennis is barely there on "Keepin' the Summer Alive", Carl and Dennis weren't there for much of "MIU", several member make only cameos on "Love You", and so on.

The main outside influence making SC and even SIP weird and compromised was the whole Landy situation. It's why Brian was barely integrated into the band in 1988/89, and the immediate aftermath of Brian being extricated from Landy was presumably why he wasn't anywhere to be seen on SIP.

But if we're going to start erasing stuff that Landy directly or indirect impacted, then pretty much everything Brian was a part of from 1983 to 1992 would have to be erased. So no BW '88 album, and so on.

And if we're going to start erasing stuff just because *you* think it sucks, then a ton of their entire catalog is on the table.

Wow! This was certainly the popular attitude among hardcore Beach Boys fans back when there albums were first released so it's a little nostalgic for me to see someone write this is 2018.....but no, they should've been re released some time ago and any Beach Boy album with Carl Wilson on it is never going to be a total loss.

It ain't just me.

Here's a review of SIP from Blender http://blender.com/guide/reviews.aspx?id=2260 (http://blender.com/guide/reviews.aspx?id=2260):

“Kokomo,” perhaps most kindly described as a Beach Boys– influenced song with the Beach Boys singing on it, was a surprise number 1 hit — hence this lame instant album: a collaboration with obese rap trio the Fat Boys, soundtrack contributions and three ’60s hits to pad it out.

From AMG https://www.allmusic.com/album/still-cruisin-mw0000200452 (https://www.allmusic.com/album/still-cruisin-mw0000200452):

The Beach Boys' success with soundtracks, notably their number one 1988 hit with "Kokomo" from Cocktail (but also the title track "Still Cruisin'" from Lethal Weapon 2), provided the rationale for this hodgepodge of oldies and one-off singles. Their new savior, producer Terry Melcher, helps them sound like a professional '60s cover band. Meanwhile, except for one lone contribution, a solid "In My Car," Brian Wilson had quietly disappeared to a solo career.

This is about the only place outside of MikeLove.com where people will actually defend this stuff.  The rest of the world (at least those who are aware of the existence of these albums) recognize that they have no artistic merit, and are just money grabs.  Apparently folks around here used to recognize that as well.  It's unfortunate if that's changed.

Agreed! :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

Huh? What are you talking about? Of course it's not a unique opinion that those albums suck. So what? What are you trying to say? Saying they shouldn't be erased from history isn't "defending" the quality of the albums.

Read through my post history before you "introduce" me to the fact that critics hate SIP. Read through my post history to find out what I think of those albums.

I'm trying to say that they are not really Beach Boys albums, and should not be treated as such.

If Bill Gates bought the rights to the Beach Boys name, and promptly started releasing "Beach Boys" albums consisting of tracks performed entirely by monkeys, you could argue that those albums also would represent "history," and should not be "erased."  But you'd be wrong, and you're wrong in this case.

Well, both albums feature Carl, Mike, Al, and Bruce with Brian appearing on SC.  So, just because the albums dont live up to your or some critical standards doesnt mean they're not Beach Boys albums.  These are facts.

By this logic, Hot Space is not a Queen album, House of Blue Light is not a Deep Purple album, It's Hard isn't a Who album, etc etc etc.   

Wait. I see both of your points. I think SC and SiP ARE Beach Boys albums - they’ve all had sporadic participation so it’s hard to draw the line; look at Love You and MIU especially. If LY and MIU are Beach Boys albums then SC and SiP have to be to you. 

But - how could you not consider Hot Space a Queen album? All members are there and contributed almost equally for the first time in their career. Hot Space is one of my favorite Queen albums. I feel it’s picking up momentum in the last ten years amongst fans and musicians. It’s certainly their most divided album critically in their canon.

I think the point he was making (tongue in cheek) was that using Jeff's criteria "Hot Space" can't be a true Queen album because it's generally regarded as a low point and he doesn't like it. That makes no sense obviously.
Debating whether or not SC and SIP are any good is one thing. We KNOW they're not good...but like it or not those are Beach Boys albums and as such should be available to complete the picture.

But neither case with the BBs involved an outside party buying the BB name and releasing an album. Your analogy is completely inaccurate.

However suck those albums are, however vapid or short-sighted the decisions were to release those albums, it was *THE* Beach Boys deciding to release them and not blocking their release.

If Mike had released a "Beach Boys" album in 1999 against the wishes of Brian and Al, then it would be closer to something analogous.

I feel like I'm being trolled even having to explain why even the crappiest BB album shouldn't be LITERALLY ERASED FROM EXISTENCE. It's asinine and literally not even possible. Which I also feel ridiculous even having to say.

I'm used to Mike & Bruce being in the doghouse but evidently the new (old) trend is to dismiss Carl Wilson as a performing "monkey" (Jeff's analogy) and claim that Al Jardine has absolutely no artistic credibility whatsoever.

Yes, we're being trolled.

My suggestion: reissue Still Cruisin' the way it should have been in the first place. Ditch the 3 60's tracks, add some 80's tracks in their place like:
 Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue and California Dreamin from Made in USA (and CD's b-side, Lady Liberty)
 Barbie (Living Doll) - although I suspect Brian is the only BB  is on it, but it was released as a BB's track
 Runaway (live version only released on the Sunkist album)
 Happy Endings (I know... I know... I hate it too, but the BB vocals are sublime)
 Chasin' the Sky (from Up the Creek)
 That would collect up all the loose ends from the 80's. For SIP, I would throw in Crocodile Rock and Problem Child.

Interesting to see the somersaults some will use to try to legitimize this crap.  I see several attempts to mischaracterize my comments, but the Carl=monkeys one is so far out there that I had to laugh at it.

In any case, although I should know better than to waste more time on this, I'll try again.  For both albums, Dennis was dead, and Brian had moved onto a solo career.  If you think that a legitimate "Beach Boys" exists with just the others ... well, I can't help you.  And it wasn't really even all of the others.  Wiki says that Bruce was "the only band member actually to play on" Summer in Paradise.  Still Cruisin' was, in a sense, "better," but given that three of the songs were reruns from more than 20 years earlier, and another was the Fat Boys, it's far from a real album.

Here's the other thing -- these "albums" have not, as the OP lamented, been re-released.  There's a reason for that.  Don't try to act as though I'm the crazy one (or simply a troll) when it's a very small number of you who are fighting reality.

Still Cruisin is a good beach boys album. A VERY good album. Summer In Paradise is a very badly produced and recorded album with a few of the worst songs the beach boys have recorded(Summer of Love, the Surfin remake). It also has a few pearls among the mud(law aloha, Strange Things Happen, the title track). To not include them as beach boys album is disrespectful to the group and it's legacy. Look, It's pretty much an open secret that SIP is a "Beach Boys" album pretty much in name only, with cameo appearances from Al and Carl. But MIU is basically the same thing(i know, substitute Al for Dennis). Do we discount MIU? No. I think of SIP as Carl's equivalent to Mike's Smile. Mike may not have liked the music of lyrics, but he sang the absolute sh*t out of "Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield". Carl may not have wanted to sing or even participate in the recording of limp, sterile, unnecessary covers of old songs, but he not only want them, he made them come alive. And God bless him for it. To deny him that offends me.

Very true.

It's not that any original member is present SC and SIP though claiming BB album. They do have their presence on it, and the album is credited to The Beach Boys, so they must be the Beach Boys albums for sure. Period.

Jeff, that is EXACTLY the analogy you used. Talk about someone making somersaults trying to make excuses for what they wrote. LOL Nice attempt at a spin. Try harder.

In the interest of fairness, it would seem that for you once Dennis dies it is no longer The Beach Boys. I get that. I suppose everyone has their own idea of what constitutes "The Beach Boys". For me The Beach Boys can never truly exist without Carl Wilson, as his vocal contribution is so enormous that it anchors their blend; but with TWGMTR featuring 5 members who can claim that title it's tough to argue that it's not a Beach Boys album.

We get it. You don't like those records. That's irrelevant. Your opinion doesn't matter. Critics can't wish albums out of existence. Life isn't "I Dream Of Jeannie".  They exist as Beach Boys albums, hobbled dogs of albums though they are. The only one arguing against reality is you.



And I hate to tell you, that crummy version of "Wipe Out" with the Fat Boys you keep bringing up? You DO realize that Brian is ALL over that recording, don't you? I mean, his is the predominant voice you hear in the vocal stack. He's even on record saying he thought it was cool. Hey, I disagree with him. I think it sucks but I'm not crazy enough to tell Brian Wilson that you know better and that it's not a legit Beach Boys relearse. Are you?

Yep, that's exactly the point I was making.   While it's by far my least favorite Queen album, Hot Space is a Queen album.   I was just making a point to the poster to whom I was responding that it's flawed logic that if  Band X releases an album that doesn't mean expectations, it's silly to say that particular album is not a part of Band X's catalog. 

EXACTLY.

Still Cruisin may not be on par with the albums recorded during the glory years, but I think it's a pretty good listen. 

I'd say all of the songs except Still Cruisin' (which is boring to me)  are enjoyable.

Dude, you're just arguing that the albums suck. Nobody much immensely disagrees with you, especially when it comes to the objective fact that most critics and fans didn't give these albums good reviews. Apparently fans are being "naïve" and "doing somersaults" even if they say "Well, you know, "Somewhere Near Japan" is pretty good", but in any event, everyone here I think is stipulating to the general rating and reputation of these albums.

If you can't wrap your head around why shitty albums should not be *erased from existence* and that they're part of documenting history, then you're the one doing somersaults.

It's also naïve to assume that these albums aren't in print because they suck, as if there's some arbiter at Capitol or BRI applying QA to each of these things. "Still Cruisin'" is likely wrapped up in licensing issues (and may still be available via streaming), and/or Capitol is just being lazy about what they keep in print. The album went gold. Other albums that *are* in print fared worse on the charts.

Nobody on *this* board needs you to explain the history of these albums. We know they got bad reviews. We know who was dead when the albums were made, and who is and isn't on the albums and in what capacity. Just because you're drawing an arbitrary line starting with 1989 as to when YOU think the band was no longer "The Beach Boys", it doesn't mean anyone else would draw such a line. No explanation required. And even if everyone agreed precisely with your logic and arbitrary line, it still wouldn't have anything to do with whether the albums should be blinked out of existence or what, I guess go back in time and make sure they were never made.

I've never been a fan of Mike touring with the BB name. But I wouldn't erase evidence of his shows from existence. Even if you think something sucks, it should remain documented if for no other reason than to document and prove the suckiness of it.

There would be licensing issues with some of those songs (Carl even spoke in a 1989 interview as to why "Chasin' the Sky" wasn't included on the SC album). A big boxed set of random stuff might be better.

I sense there might be unreleased stuff from that era that's better than either those random non-album tracks *or* the songs that made it onto the album.

I actually kinda like that song.   The only of the "new" songs that doesn't speak to me is Wipe Out, but I'm not a fan of rap. 

Still Cruisin' was my introduction to the Beach Boys as a 9 year-old. Uncle Jesse and Full House was how I learned to love their music or at least their personas as a kid. It's unfair to think someone doesn't consider it real BB music because they don't like it. I guess if I grew up on Pet Sounds, I would feel the same way.

Personally, what I don't consider BB material is the awful Nashville Sounds album.

For the longest time I believed Somewhere Near Japan would have been the last, GREAT BB song.
Thankfully, we got TWGMTR and a few nice tracks on that.
Still Surfin' on SIP is great but not so sure how many Beach Boys are on that track ...

I don't even mind if people think those albums are awful and didn't deserve to be called "Beach Boys" albums. Regardless of any of that, they *were* released as BB albums and therefore are part of the historical record.

SNJ is solid. I like it. I think it's sometimes overly-praised because of the relatively paucity of other good material for BB fans to chew on from that era. It doesn't quite reach *great* status for me. But I'm glad to have it. Most of the "new" stuff on the SC album is innocuous as worst.

Some of the tracks like "Make It Big" would probably sound a bit better remixed and liberated from the awful 80s production. Imagine a dry, stripped-down mix of "Make It Big" with just vocals and acoustic guitars. Could be pretty good.

Being born in 1980, that was Kokomo / Full House was also my first exposure to The Beach Boys also.  So, I can relate.  However, although I don't agree with it, I can kinda see how long time fans or newer fans that didn't grow up in the 80s don't appreciate Kokomo or that time period. 

Even though it said The Beach Boys on the album cover, I rarely see Stars and Stripes listed in the list of proper BB albums.  If anything, I'd put it in the same category as live releases or Stacks of Tracks, where it exists, but not quite a part of the canon. 

Give me Still Cruisin over Love You any day. The album overall is subpar, but Carl's vocals on "Somewhere Near Japan" are some of my favorite Carl vocals ever. SC was my first beach boys album, gifted to me during a multi-day boat trip.

To clarify its digital status, it was available in full on Spotify for several months after the service became available in the U.S. As time passed, I noticed songs disappearing from the Spotify album. As of a few months ago, there was an entry for it in the database (which is why Google still returns a (broken) entry for it). Now it is completely missing from Spotify.

This is a sore spot for me, since I can't for the life of my understand why-- even if it's out of print physically-- some label employee can't just uploar (or in this case re-upload") digital versions of the tracks. I had to buy a used CD of the album, but if it were available on iTunes I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I suppose the album sucks so much they don't want my money?

I thought I was the only one. 

Weird trivia on the SC album is that, at some point (maybe eons ago on the BB Britain board?) Bruce named Al's lead part on "Somewhere Near Japan" as his favorite Al lead vocal of all time. I wouldn't go that far, and Bruce not surprisingly often has more of an affinity for projects he was more heavily involved with (Sunflower, "Somewhere Near Japan", etc.), but interesting trivia nonetheless. Al does sound excellent on that one.

A remix of that track would possibly yield even better results. Maybe remove the kind of embarrassing too-obvious Asian instrumentation at the beginning, and make some other subtle adjustments.

Weirdly, the vintage "single edit/remix" is pretty limp; it kind of sounds like a demo because they drop out the drums too much.

I'd jettison SC in a heartbeat over "Love You." "Love You" has better compositions, and as a truly "Brian" article, it's indispensable. SC just kind of accidentally has some decent material, running on the fumes of the talents mainly of Al and Carl's voices and Terry Melcher's ability to write a catchy melody/chord change.

But stunningly, we *are* allowed to have both in our collections! Mind-blowingly, I can make a play list that has "Island Girl" *and* "The Night Was So Young!"

That's probably because, despite some objections here (well one), both are actually Beach Boys albums. 

Love You was definitely a Brian led BB album, but to be honest, the songs of it do little to nothing for me, and I struggle to find six songs on Love You that I like.   Where as I like all six non rap or oldies songs on SC.  Al and Carl sound good, but I think Mike puts in some decent leads on SC as well.   Ah, the days of clean Mike Love vocals. 

This is such a crazy discussion.  Of course they are BB albums.  Do we even need to explain why? 

However, I disagree with HeyJude’s assertion that SIP is easy to find on used CD.  It took years of searching for my husband to find it (and he is a crazy CD fiend who browses used CD stores, thrift stores etc...a few times a week).  In my experience, a zillion copies of Still Cruisin are available but very few of SIP. 

For those that can't get past the arrangement/production on "Love You" (I can myself), the 1976 "Love You/Adult Child" piano demo tape shows how great many of those compositions are.

"Mona" and to a lesser degree "Love is a Woman" are rather dispensable. Pretty much everything else I've always enjoyed.

Objectively, "Love You" is much more unified, smooth *album* experience.

Whereas, with SC it takes like 27 qualifiers just to explain the stuff one likes about the album. "Well, if you get rid of the three oldies and the rap duet, and discount the already-released tracks, and keep in mind how Landy would only loan Brian out to the band on an hourly basis, and then take into account the internecine band politics of the era, then you have almost 1/2 of a not-too-bad album!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

But yeah, I dig several of the tracks on the album. It's objectively not a good *album* in the literal sense. It's only 50 or 60% a *new* album, and even *those* new tracks, while generally okay-to-good-to-very-good, aren't A+ material.

It's not so much the production of Love You.   Personally, I just don't think the songs are that great.  More unified album?  Sure. 

The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You. 

But, speaking of disjointed, 20/20 is one of my favorite Beach Boys albums. 

It's certainly all relative. I wouldn't expect to find SIP in 2018 in any random used CD bin. If you only shop at brick-and-mortar stores, then all bets are off. I wouldn't expect to find the majority of the BB or solo catalog. But usually, there are five to ten or more copies up on eBay. As with most items, the prices range from ridiculously high to pretty low. But finished eBay auction searches show dozens of copies have been sold in the last few months, as low as $10.

Amazon also has a half dozen copies of the CD under $25, which isn't bad for a CD that sold very few copies and has been out of print for most of the last 25 years.

So I'd stick by the general assertion that it doesn't take much looking or much money to find SIP on CD. If you're only willing to pay under $10 and old look at brick-and-mortar used CD shops and thrift shops, then yeah, it'll probably be pretty challenging.

It's actually harder to find (and more expensive) to get a physical CD copy of the 2000 "MIU/LA" two-fer CD at this point, as that *one* particular two-fer has been out of print for awhile.

Brian's piano demos for "I'll Bet He's Nice" and "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" (among others) really do *nothing* for you? Some of the moments on that tape are some of the most amazing Brian/BB moments ever caught on tape, certainly when we're talking about the post-mid-70s era.

Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR). 

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material. 

Wow.

I'm not sure why it warrants a "wow."  You have to admit that much of the Beach Boys music post Holland (heck, you can make the agrument for post Good Vibrations) has a pretty niche appeal.  Despite what gets posted here, and other BB forums, there's a reason that those songs don't make it into setlists for either touring band very much. 

Generally speaking, message boards like this *are* that niche. So yeah, no big deal, but wow for sure. Especially to the idea that Brian's last special/amazing BB track is "'Til I Die." You gotta do some digging, but there's amazing stuff well after *1970*, which is when "'Til I Die" was recorded.

In terms of front-to-back strong albums, the BBs are a huge mixed bag in the post-mid-70s era. But there are still many, many very, very strong tracks. Some Dennis and Carl tracks on "LA" are excellent. KTSA has some moments ("Goin' On" is a semi lost classic, and Al's "Santa Ana Winds" is great). I actually think many of the BB '85 songs are pretty catchy. Super mixed bag in this era, no question. (And that actually goes to some degree for stuff in the earlier era as well). But I for one am a student of their whole career; I've never really delineated any arbitrary cut-off points where my base level of interest isn't there (with I suppose the exception specifically of the post-Al/Carl era of the touring band, and frankly even then I probably ironically know more about Mike's touring band's history than many of its biggest fans).

To add to HeyJude’s point: the ‘I’ll Bet He’s Nice’ demo track is one of the greatest Brian&Mike moments ever. You get to be a fly on the wall during one of the most special moments between band members: when a demo is shown to the band and a magical part happens that lights a fire of excitement between all the members. Mike is legitimately excited when that middle eight is played, and it’s one of those rare moments we fans rarely get to see or hear. Like I’ve always wanted to hear Mike’s reaction to Brian playing an early demo idea of Fun Fun Fun, we can’t hear that moment, but we can imagine it would be a lot like what we hear in this Love You demo track.

I think that’s one aspect of why people find those demos special. Another being that in those chords and melodies are songs that could easily fit on Pet Sounds (not necessarily the lyrics or production). Love You is Brian at the helm of his own muse, not really being influenced by anyone but himself...it’s a phenomenal glimpse into his mindset.

It’s an album I would never play in front of people, nor would I go out of my way to tell anyone outside the fan base that I really love it. So I can completely sympathize with people that don’t like it. It’s weird, the production is weird, the lyrics are weird, the singing isn’t the best. But behind all the bad is a foundation of honesty and really brilliant songwriting.

For sure, *part* of the amazing nature of that 1976 demo tape is what's happening outside of the musical performances. Mike not only supporting and encouraging Brian, but Mike displaying a specific, personal ability to discern what an amazing *chord change* specifically is. Mike noticing the amazing chord change/turn at the very end of "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" is an amazing moment. Mike (and presumably at least one other member?) cheering Brian on as he hits the bridge of "I'll Bet He's Nice" might be one of the most amazing *things* ever caught on tape concerning the band.

Don't get me wrong.   I like a lot of what Brian and The Beach Boys did post 1970.  I actually think MIU, LA, BB85, and SC are very underrated.  And I love TWGMTR.  (and I'm not including some of BW's solo material of which I'm a fan because I specifically said songs for The Beach Boys).  I'm just saying that the quality of those songs doesn't come close to the amazing music of the 1960s and early 70s. 

Just because I tend to gravitate towards the material from 1962-73 doesn't mean I don't celebrate their entire career. 

As for the main point of this thread. I almost have to agree that these albums deserve to be in the catalogue.

So I think Still Cruisin has one of the best versions of WIBN I’ve ever heard - I’m not sure if it was used for a single or what, but Brian’s vocal take is really unique. Secondly, it’s got Kokomo on it, and it is one of their number one hits. I don’t care for many of the songs on it but I spin it on vinyl from time to time.

Summer In Paradise should be accessible for all to hear just how friggin bad things got for this band. The album is such an embarrassment that even the band doesn’t want to put it on a streaming service even though it would basically be free money for them.

I’m really indifferent about SIP being in the catalogue, but I think it’s great that they don’t even sell this rot anymore...makes me wonder if they’ll do a copyright extension release for the SIP sessions ;D

yes, they should be in the catalog.  Still Cruisin features one of the best latter day BB songs in SNJ and SIP needs to be included for the unbelievable vocals of both Al and Carl.

Huh.  When we were looking for it it was also ridiculously expensive on EBay and Amazon, etc... but that was a couple of years ago so maybe things have changed somewhat?  But I do remember that online we could only find it for like 80 bucks and up (no joke).  When we finally did stumble across a copy we felt like we’d found a jackpot. Also, this is in Canada so not sure if that makes a difference.  

It's nice to hear somebody who loves Love You admit that. One of the first threads I read after becoming obsessed with the Beach Boys and discovering this forum was a pile-on about Love You, with many posters essentially claiming that you're not a real fan unless you love that album. Which blew my mind, because I can find almost nothing enjoyable on Love You. I don't care for the arrangements, the production or lyrics. Instrumentation is grating, and the vocals, to my ear, are downright embarrassing.  So y'all lose me when you praise Love You on the merit of its songs.

What I sort of understand is context, and I've concluded that context must be the primary reason so many posters here love that album. It was truly Brian at the helm after everything else that was going on, it offers some kind of glimpse into Brian's mind or the band at the time, blah blah blah. Of course I argue that a truly good song or album is viscerally good, divorced from context. One should not need to understand the participants, their mindsets or backstories, in order to enjoy the album. This is why you won't play it in front of people, because on it's own, it makes people want to jump off a tall building. Just for fun, I play Love You at least once, front to back, for my high school computer programming students.  Every time, without fail, they revolt.

But yeah, I get context. And I'll readily admit that context is part of my affinity for Still Cruisin'. I must have been 12 years old when an uncle gifted it to me during a remote, multi-day lake trip. I listened to that album over and over again in my Walkman as I sat in the back of a boat and hiked along the shoreline. So I suppose I do cut it some slack.  That said, those vocals. Dang.

I have noticed that in the last five or so years (give or take), the going prices for physical media and especially CDs in general have taken a pretty good plunge. So it could well be the case that an SIP CD is easier to find and cheaper now than five or even ten years ago.

Even a lot of old audiophile gold CDs from MFSL and DCC, etc. that used to go for big bucks are hard to unload now. I think just a lot of people have switched over to streaming music, and even audiophiles now can go to true high-rez via download. So CDs aren't seeing as much demand anymore.

Places like Barnes & Noble seem to have more *vinyl* than CDs now for crying out loud. (Just don't tell anyone buying that vinyl that some of those "high quality" vinyl pressings they're buying are mastered from 16/44.1 CD sources!).

When I was completing my BB CD collection in 2014, I noticed a lot of SIP CDs going for crazy prices too.  I got one for $15 I think on eBay (I think it was discounted because it didn't include the poster insert and the case isn't in good shape).  Right now, on Amazon, you can get a copy of just over $20, or a UK version for just over $40.  

At the same time, I had trouble finding the MIU / LA 2 fer, as most copies were going for $40-$50.   I think I paid $20 on Amazon Marketplace.  Right now, the cheapest on Amazon is $40.

That these two albums aren't even available for streaming speaks volumes .....

Really? Cause there's a lot of excellent material by other bands (Wondermints comes most immediately to mind) that also isn't available for streaming. And the fact that Love You is available for streaming tells me it ain't about quality.

When I first got into The Beach Boys and started getting on these forums, I heard so many great things about Friends, Sunflower, Surf's Up, Holland, and Love You.   And I couldn't wait to listen to them.  I fell in love with Friends, Sunflower, Surfs Up, and Holland, but not Love You.   I tried listening to it a few times, but still nothing. 

Same. Although I will say that when I list the attributes I love about the band and their music, most of them apply to the early 60's thru about Smiley Smile. I do love the Friends-Holland material, but it's different since overall that material lacks the majority of those core attributes. When I introduce new people (like my high school students) to the Beach Boys, I don't bother with anything post Smiley Smile.

For the record, I have tried dozens of times over the last 5 years or so to "get" Love you. No luck so far.

Also for the record, I've never heard SIP because a) I have little use for-- and no capability to play-- physical media, and b) it's so hated here that I just haven't bothered.  Would I buy it if it were available digitally? Of course. Which is why I'm so baffled that stuff like SIP and SC are not available.

I think that's a great and wholly accurate quote, that SC is an EP disguised as an album.

Same with SIP.

Which begs the question: why did the band have an aversion to just simply releasing EPs around this time? I guess the answer is $$, in that they'd get more upfront money for sales or to fulfill record contracts, right? Still seems like a ridiculous joke to pad out those 2 projects to make them "full albums" when CLEARLY there was not enough original content for those to actually pass as such.

Was it unheard of in that era for legacy bands to release EPs of new material?

If SC and SIP had both been EPs, scrapping the really bad stuff, they'd be much more highly regarded relatively speaking.

Both SC and SIP have something worth listening to.  Some really good songs, some fabulous vocals, guitar solos etc.

Both albums were promoted by the Beach Boys.

Both albums featured the Beach Boys.  Predominantly at the time the touring line up of Mike, Bruce, Carl, and Alan with occasional Brian appearances.

By Jeff's logic, TWGMTR wouldn't be a Beach Boys album as there was no Carl or Dennis.

Both albums are Beach Boys albums whether some people like it or not.  They should be re-issued, especially SIP as it's the only vinyl Beach Boys release I don't have!

All good points, however it's possible for material by bands to be missing from streaming services for a variety of reasons, including that some bands aren't eager to remind the public of their lowest points. Look at Mike's facial expression when Brian mentions "Looking Back with Love" in the campfire sessions 1989 video; it's definite embarrassment for him and he doesn't want the album to be mentioned. I don't think SMiLE Brian's theory is super off base, especially in the case of SIP. And I say that as somebody who can kinda dig about an EP's worth of tracks from both SIP and SC.

Speaking of SIP on vinyl, just how rare is it? I know there's a photo of one copy floating around the interwebs, a Korean (?) pressing, and possibly the only version that was made. Curious if it was actually mastered properly for vinyl from the master "tapes", and if that would have improved the sound quality a smidge. Or if it was just a one-off weird pressing for one market, maybe it was just dumped to vinyl in a cheapie, improper manner.

Just imagine the irony: a needledrop of the digitally-recorded SIP

I had SC on CD and my iPhone, it’s not available since it’s a nadir of the BBs career, plus a political minefield due to the Landy era.

In many of these regards, I view SC and SIP as rather different.

With SC, getting the album out there was certainly motivated by Capitol giving them an *album* deal. I don't think an EP would have flown, and let's be honest, how many bands have ever done well with EP releases, especially in the 80s? In any event, there's some good discussion in an old "Still Cruisin'" thread that covers a lot of this, and I think it was guitarfool who snagged some contemporary articles, including some comments from a Capitol exec who seemed motivated and enthusiastic about getting the band a hit, and getting them to put together a good *album.*

What we don't know is if the "movie soundtrack" theme was there at the outset, or if they ever gave thought to just making a *new album* (with "Kokomo" tacked on because it was a hit). They certainly had an album's worth of truly new material. Al was working on tracks during that time including "Don't Fight the Sea."

In any event, at some point (if not at the outset), they went with the movie soundtrack theme. Mike Love gave an interview not too long after where he expressed frustration that politics bogged down the album. However, he felt it was the *original* songs that watered down the "soundtrack" concept. He wanted *less* new material there, singling out "Island Girl" and "In My Car" as seemingly political concessions.

So it's pretty funny, both fans and Mike Love feel the SC album was watered down, but for entirely opposite reasons!

But long story short, yes, certainly they were motivated by the money and album deal from Capitol to get an album out on the market. But I think they still had some level of motivation to wanting to be successful to maintain some sort of career as *recording* artists. As we all know, SC did okay and went gold, surely because it was the first product with "Kokomo" on it outside of the single and the "Cocktail" soundtrack.

SIP was entirely different. With no record deal, they ironically had to be quite pro-active about making the album. Or rather, Mike was pro-active about it. The band was in some degree of tatters at that time in 1991/1992. Brian was in the midst of being wrestled away from Landy, I believe the fake autobiography lawsuits started to happen around this time, and Al and Mike were starting to have whatever it is that was going on between them.

Mike's SIP album, as Wirestone explained in a great post some time back, is perhaps most noteworthy because it's *NOT* a rattled-off quickie album. It's Mike doing his *absolute best* and putting everything he's got into it. State of the art (for the time) recoding techniques, attention to detail crafting the songs and picking the covers. But it was a victim of Mike's total lack of credentials to know what critics wanted, or what fans wanted, or what would go over in the marketplace. I'm sure his idea wasn't quite as simplistic as "make an album of Kokomos", but that aspect was probably at play. So it was Mike's motivation (ironic that he picked *that* album to push hard) and the apparent lack of interest to intervene on the part of any other corporate members, that gave us SIP.

C-man or Alan Boyd might be able to speak to this more, but I would have to guess any weird vinyl pressing of SIP was mastered from a standard 16-bit/44.1 digital source, either DAT or a CD or something along those lines.

In fact, I'm guessing the Beta version of ProTools they used, probably 1.0 or something similar, maxed out around 16/44.1 CD resolution at the recording source.

The only way a vinyl pressing would sound better is if they had a DAT source that left out additional mastering moves (additional compression, etc.) added when mastered for CD.

My vague recollection is that in the early-mid 90s, vinyl was still (proportionately) more popular in the UK than the US, so I'm surprised the 1993 revamped version of SIP (distributed by EMI) didn't get some sort of vinyl pressing.

I think the songs available on GH albums and box sets are enough from this era.

Ive tried many times with Love You also.  But, Ive given up.  Theres too much other music that I like that I dont have a chance to listen to as much as I used to. 

Me, three. Can't stand the bad vocals and synths all over Love You.

What makes a good BB album, never mind a real BB album?

Let's go back to 1962 and the first Capitol album. Sure, it has its place in history, and it is 100% a BB album. But let's be honest here, it has three outstanding tracks and a lot of filler. That's how albums were made in those days, especially debuts. I am a hardcore fan and love the early days, but truth to tell, I have played Still Cruisin' and SiP more than that first album. Simply because they are better albums.

And I am the only person I know that likes the Fat Boys collaboration. Whoever else bought the single and helped it chart at #12 on Billboard, well, they have to step forward. I know I am not alone here...  8)

I never thought it made much sense to not include SC and SiP in the catalogue.  The songs are easy enough to search on youtube and there are plenty of used copies for sale.  They're literally costing themselves money by not having these albums available for purchase or streaming.  People who hate them are still going to hate them, but people who want to listen to one or all of the songs are forced to buy the used copies or use youtube to listen or download.  It's not like they would have to put together a big advertising campaign for the release, they could just show up like the most recent copyright release did.   

Nope, I like it too, and am not afraid to say so. 

The thing is that there are so many actual good Beach Boys albums that don’t really sell much and go in and out of print after a few years that I can understand why there’s little interest by Capitol in reissuing arguably the band’s worst albums.  A digital release, maybe (I know Stars and Stripes quietly appeared on streaming services a while back after having been long out of print) but I can’t see any sort of vinyl or CD reissues of those albums anytime soon.

Though if they reissued Still Cruisin’, it should be more substantial than the poorly compiled cash grab that the 1989 release was.  Maybe it could look something like this.


And Summer in Paradise might be of interest if they included the UK mixes as bonus tracks.

Neither record is even half as good as anything the group put out between '63 and '77. Still Cruisin' is OK for what it is. I kind of like Terry Melcher's production approach where everyone gets to sing a line in pretty much every verse. It's sort of cheesy but it works. SIP, except for Lahaina Aloha and maybe one or two other songs, is complete garbage and I don't care whether or not it ever gets reissued.

Re: SIP being a better album than The Beach Boys debut: I’ll take the realism of Surfin Safari any day over the completely artificial sound of SIP. And production aside, I’d so much rather hear a 14 year old David Marks shred some guitar on Chug-a-lug than hear a 51 year old Mike Love sing about bangin some chick in a swimming pool.

What makes a good beach boys album? How about an album with all of the actual band playing on the album. Or an album that actually charts (#32). With Surfin Safari you’re listening to literal kids accomplish something that almost no other kids got to do: play on a rock n roll album for a major record company. It’s so much more than history too - it’s the realism of an actual band getting their foot planted in a new world of music...you can hear the inexperience, Brian is tapping a snare drum with his finger in one song! But it’s real, not a drum machine, not glossy production. SIP is half a band attempting to milk the sound of a hit song by making a half baked effort at songwriting and recording without half of the original members (including Brian Wilson).

I get that a couple people somehow actually like SIP, but calling it better than an actual original Beach Boys album? That’s a huge stretch.

Agreed so much I added a quote to my profile... ;D

Undoubtably one of the best quotes ever! It only needs to be "wootilized".  :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

You argue your case well, and I understand where you are coming from. Obviously, the three good/outstanding hits on SS are better than anything on SiP. But my point is that's all you get on SS. The filler may be fun, if you are into history and tracing the evolution of the band, but once you are over that, there's little to encourage repeat listens. I am not a big fan of SiP. I sold the USA version back then, because I couldn't stand the brash drum sounds. Then years later, I got the UK edition second hand, a slight improvement, at least enough for me to keep it. Consider this, every track on SiP is at least listenable. I personally feel it's a better deal to get 12 passable tracks than three good ones and nine fillers. That's just me. Song for song, there's more on offer on SiP. Better batting average.

I mean, the opinion that there is more encouragement for repeated listens on SIP is based off your own musical tastes. Keeping personal taste out of it, I’d say based on the chart number for SS (and that SIP didn’t even chart), the fact that SIP isn’t even sold anymore (nor does it look like it will be sold) says that the average consumer (and the minds at Capitol) finds less actual content on SIP than on SS...which is why the latter is still sold.

In response to the original post:


I think it's ridiculous (too harsh?) that in 2018 a major act such as the Beach Boys don't have every studio album available digitally. If there's insufficient demand for a physical reissue, so be it.

I like chart trivia as much as anyone, but I wouldn't let that inform or dictate my taste. I doubt you do that, either. You use chart performance as an argument. But how then, do you account for the much maligned "Kokomo" being their final #1?  I like "Kokomo", but I wouldn't use its chart-topping status as proof of its quality. What it comes down to is personal taste. You like the debut over SiP, fine. But take out the brash production on SiP, and you are left with some pretty solid tunes. There are three tunes on SS as opposed to twelve on SiP.

There are no tunes on SIP..... >:D

I’m not letting chart placement dictate my taste - I’m saying that your average consumer (based off of the chart positions, based off current demand) doesn’t at all think that SIP deserves repeated listens. My responses to you have been made with your two initial questions in mind: what makes a good Beach Boys album/what makes a real Beach Boys album.

I didn’t think it fair to answer those two questions solely based on personal taste. Do I like Kokomo a lot? Not a lot, but one can’t deny its popularity, the role it had in pop culture at the time, and its continued popularity (being the most popular Beach Boys song in iTunes, etc)...with that in mind its a “good” Beach Boys record. I think I’ve listened to Surfin Safari a total of one time through, heck I’ve probably listened to SIP more than I’ve listened to SS (I’m not even kidding). But based on chart placement, based on the effect the album (its core songs) had on popular culture, given that all the original members (including Al) played on the album, given that no one wants to reissue SIP (or that the record company won’t give it the green light), given that SIP had zero effect on popular culture - given all that I’d say that SS is the better/more real Beach Boys album.

Here’s why I don’t base my answers to your questions on personal taste: I find more enjoyment in Love You than I do Surfin Safari (and personally think LY is a far better album), but I also realize the significance and popularity that SS holds over LY. I think the songwriting on LY blows anything on Surfin Safari out of the water...but give your average consumer the choice over the two and they’ll pick Surfin Safari almost every time.

If this is a discussion about personal taste, and not unbiased answers to your initial questions, then I will kindly bow out and say I’m happy you find enjoyment in the more obscure corners of The Beach Boys catalogue...I do as well and personally find some of their more obscure music far more enjoyable than some of their popular music.

Whats the third tune on Smiley?  Ive got two, and they were already released as singles, and their presence on most BB comps renders SS almost unnecessary in terms of listening. 

SS = Surfin Safari in this case. I did a double take as well haha.

Ooooohhh.  Oops. 

This thing has clearly splintered into multiple contentions. The quality of SC and SIP is debatable.

But it's not debatable that even crummy albums are part of the canon. They already exist, and they always will. Getting those two particular albums back in print is not something that's at the top of my list of priorities, but I certainly don't see anything wrong with *everything* being in print. "Looking Back With Love", "Going Public", whatever. The sucky stuff should be available to study as well.

Even if its not in print with a tangible copy, one would think it would be available digitally. 

Same goes for Mike's solo albums. 

And Al’s solo album...sucks it’s not available on Apple Music (I bought it digitally when it came out but would like for it to be easily available in the AM library).

Anywho, there’s so much that could be released digitally it’s baffling that they don’t do it...Like there’s no reason why Still Cruisin shouldn’t be available anymore.

True. 

Though at least Al's albums are available on CD (though Ive seen to live one as high as $40).

Interestingly (sorry if already mention) the rather decent 'The Beach Boys Americas Band' book by Johnny Morgan from 2015 certainly includes the 2 said albums into the core discography

Yeah, and Morgan doesn’t really hold back on how friggin horrible SIP sounds either :lol I really love the book, it’s FULL of great pictures of the band and good commentary to go with them.

It’s so odd to me that The Beach Boys website doesn’t include SIP or SC in the discography, but the Wikipedia page does. Also odd about The Beach Boys website is that someone actually thought it a good idea to promote the Mark McGrath ‘Do It Again’ cover right on the homepage. Quality control much?

The C50 Tour Program included Still Crusin' in the pictures of the album sleeves but not SIP.

Both albums were released and promoted as Beach Boys albums at the time, no amount of revisionism can alter that fact.  As such they should be available in some format, not airbrushed out of existence.

Even if it was promoted as such at the time, Still Cruisin' really isn't much of an album.  Three new songs, three recent soundtrack contributions, Wipe Out which was two years old by that point and already on a Fat Boys album, and three classic songs from the '60s.  I think the only reason it gets recognized is because Kokomo was such a big hit and it was the first time it appeared on a Beach Boys release, even though it had already been on the Cocktail soundtrack.  Otherwise it would probably be seen as just another in the endless series of Beach Boys compilations.

Both albums should be included in the discography.  There were new songs and they were front and center as the featured artists. Stars and Stripes, however, should not be included as they were guests on their allegedly own album

For many years, I thought S&S was a tribute album. I didn't realise that all of the surviving members(plus Matt Jardine) sang on every song(albeit, backing vocals only). I then begrudgingly bought it. If not for the great contributions from Willie Nelson and Timothy Schmidt I'd burn it. How anybody let this embarrassing monstrosity out over a Beach Boys album of the Paley sessions will forever baffle me.

You're a lot kinder than I was when I first heard it.  I already don't care for country that much. Then you throw in that most of it ranks as very bad country. Then throw in the fact that some of the artists included were not actual country singers (besides Schmidt, Kathy Troccoli is a CCM singer like people like Michael W Smith). Then you add in the fact that the BB were not front and center? As my daughter likes to say "Ya know what...? uh uh"

You know all those E.T. Atari games they found in a landfill? They should have put S&S in it's place.  ;D

:lol

The best song didn't even make it to S&S vol.1

Tammy Wynette's cover of In my Room

that one can be found on a Tammy tribute album, of all places.

It basically is a tribute album.  In 2000, The Doors put out a tribute album that featured all members (including Jim), but they luckily knew enough to not put THE DOORS on the top of the album cover.