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Author Topic: Still Cruisin and SIP should be in the core catalogue.  (Read 4267 times)
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« Reply #25 on: January 05, 2018, 12:22:36 AM »

Still Cruisin is a good beach boys album. A VERY good album. Summer In Paradise is a very badly produced and recorded album with a few of the worst songs the beach boys have recorded(Summer of Love, the Surfin remake). It also has a few pearls among the mud(law aloha, Strange Things Happen, the title track). To not include them as beach boys album is disrespectful to the group and it's legacy. Look, It's pretty much an open secret that SIP is a "Beach Boys" album pretty much in name only, with cameo appearances from Al and Carl. But MIU is basically the same thing(i know, substitute Al for Dennis). Do we discount MIU? No. I think of SIP as Carl's equivalent to Mike's Smile. Mike may not have liked the music of lyrics, but he sang the absolute sh*t out of "Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield". Carl may not have wanted to sing or even participate in the recording of limp, sterile, unnecessary covers of old songs, but he not only want them, he made them come alive. And God bless him for it. To deny him that offends me.
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« Reply #26 on: January 05, 2018, 12:29:09 AM »

Still Cruisin is a good beach boys album. A VERY good album. Summer In Paradise is a very badly produced and recorded album with a few of the worst songs the beach boys have recorded(Summer of Love, the Surfin remake). It also has a few pearls among the mud(law aloha, Strange Things Happen, the title track). To not include them as beach boys album is disrespectful to the group and it's legacy. Look, It's pretty much an open secret that SIP is a "Beach Boys" album pretty much in name only, with cameo appearances from Al and Carl. But MIU is basically the same thing(i know, substitute Al for Dennis). Do we discount MIU? No. I think of SIP as Carl's equivalent to Mike's Smile. Mike may not have liked the music of lyrics, but he sang the absolute sh*t out of "Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield". Carl may not have wanted to sing or even participate in the recording of limp, sterile, unnecessary covers of old songs, but he not only want them, he made them come alive. And God bless him for it. To deny him that offends me.
Very true.

It's not that any original member is present SC and SIP though claiming BB album. They do have their presence on it, and the album is credited to The Beach Boys, so they must be the Beach Boys albums for sure. Period.
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« Reply #27 on: January 05, 2018, 03:22:57 AM »

The main outside influence making SC and even SIP weird and compromised was the whole Landy situation. It's why Brian was barely integrated into the band in 1988/89, and the immediate aftermath of Brian being extricated from Landy was presumably why he wasn't anywhere to be seen on SIP.

But if we're going to start erasing stuff that Landy directly or indirect impacted, then pretty much everything Brian was a part of from 1983 to 1992 would have to be erased. So no BW '88 album, and so on.

And if we're going to start erasing stuff just because *you* think it sucks, then a ton of their entire catalog is on the table.

It ain't just me.

Here's a review of SIP from Blender http://blender.com/guide/reviews.aspx?id=2260:

“Kokomo,” perhaps most kindly described as a Beach Boys– influenced song with the Beach Boys singing on it, was a surprise number 1 hit — hence this lame instant album: a collaboration with obese rap trio the Fat Boys, soundtrack contributions and three ’60s hits to pad it out.

From AMG https://www.allmusic.com/album/still-cruisin-mw0000200452:

The Beach Boys' success with soundtracks, notably their number one 1988 hit with "Kokomo" from Cocktail (but also the title track "Still Cruisin'" from Lethal Weapon 2), provided the rationale for this hodgepodge of oldies and one-off singles. Their new savior, producer Terry Melcher, helps them sound like a professional '60s cover band. Meanwhile, except for one lone contribution, a solid "In My Car," Brian Wilson had quietly disappeared to a solo career.

This is about the only place outside of MikeLove.com where people will actually defend this stuff.  The rest of the world (at least those who are aware of the existence of these albums) recognize that they have no artistic merit, and are just money grabs.  Apparently folks around here used to recognize that as well.  It's unfortunate if that's changed.

Huh? What are you talking about? Of course it's not a unique opinion that those albums suck. So what? What are you trying to say? Saying they shouldn't be erased from history isn't "defending" the quality of the albums.

Read through my post history before you "introduce" me to the fact that critics hate SIP. Read through my post history to find out what I think of those albums.


I'm trying to say that they are not really Beach Boys albums, and should not be treated as such.

If Bill Gates bought the rights to the Beach Boys name, and promptly started releasing "Beach Boys" albums consisting of tracks performed entirely by monkeys, you could argue that those albums also would represent "history," and should not be "erased."  But you'd be wrong, and you're wrong in this case.

But neither case with the BBs involved an outside party buying the BB name and releasing an album. Your analogy is completely inaccurate.

However suck those albums are, however vapid or short-sighted the decisions were to release those albums, it was *THE* Beach Boys deciding to release them and not blocking their release.

If Mike had released a "Beach Boys" album in 1999 against the wishes of Brian and Al, then it would be closer to something analogous.

I feel like I'm being trolled even having to explain why even the crappiest BB album shouldn't be LITERALLY ERASED FROM EXISTENCE. It's asinine and literally not even possible. Which I also feel ridiculous even having to say.

I'm used to Mike & Bruce being in the doghouse but evidently the new (old) trend is to dismiss Carl Wilson as a performing "monkey" (Jeff's analogy) and claim that Al Jardine has absolutely no artistic credibility whatsoever.

Yes, we're being trolled.

Interesting to see the somersaults some will use to try to legitimize this crap.  I see several attempts to mischaracterize my comments, but the Carl=monkeys one is so far out there that I had to laugh at it.

In any case, although I should know better than to waste more time on this, I'll try again.  For both albums, Dennis was dead, and Brian had moved onto a solo career.  If you think that a legitimate "Beach Boys" exists with just the others ... well, I can't help you.  And it wasn't really even all of the others.  Wiki says that Bruce was "the only band member actually to play on" Summer in Paradise.  Still Cruisin' was, in a sense, "better," but given that three of the songs were reruns from more than 20 years earlier, and another was the Fat Boys, it's far from a real album.

Here's the other thing -- these "albums" have not, as the OP lamented, been re-released.  There's a reason for that.  Don't try to act as though I'm the crazy one (or simply a troll) when it's a very small number of you who are fighting reality.

Jeff, that is EXACTLY the analogy you used. Talk about someone making somersaults trying to make excuses for what they wrote. LOL Nice attempt at a spin. Try harder.

In the interest of fairness, it would seem that for you once Dennis dies it is no longer The Beach Boys. I get that. I suppose everyone has their own idea of what constitutes "The Beach Boys". For me The Beach Boys can never truly exist without Carl Wilson, as his vocal contribution is so enormous that it anchors their blend; but with TWGMTR featuring 5 members who can claim that title it's tough to argue that it's not a Beach Boys album.

We get it. You don't like those records. That's irrelevant. Your opinion doesn't matter. Critics can't wish albums out of existence. Life isn't "I Dream Of Jeannie".  They exist as Beach Boys albums, hobbled dogs of albums though they are. The only one arguing against reality is you.



And I hate to tell you, that crummy version of "Wipe Out" with the Fat Boys you keep bringing up? You DO realize that Brian is ALL over that recording, don't you? I mean, his is the predominant voice you hear in the vocal stack. He's even on record saying he thought it was cool. Hey, I disagree with him. I think it sucks but I'm not crazy enough to tell Brian Wilson that you know better and that it's not a legit Beach Boys relearse. Are you?

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« Reply #28 on: January 05, 2018, 05:18:05 AM »

Wait. I see both of your points. I think SC and SiP ARE Beach Boys albums - they’ve all had sporadic participation so it’s hard to draw the line; look at Love You and MIU especially. If LY and MIU are Beach Boys albums then SC and SiP have to be to you. 

But - how could you not consider Hot Space a Queen album? All members are there and contributed almost equally for the first time in their career. Hot Space is one of my favorite Queen albums. I feel it’s picking up momentum in the last ten years amongst fans and musicians. It’s certainly their most divided album critically in their canon.

I think the point he was making (tongue in cheek) was that using Jeff's criteria "Hot Space" can't be a true Queen album because it's generally regarded as a low point and he doesn't like it. That makes no sense obviously.
Debating whether or not SC and SIP are any good is one thing. We KNOW they're not good...but like it or not those are Beach Boys albums and as such should be available to complete the picture.



Yep, that's exactly the point I was making.   While it's by far my least favorite Queen album, Hot Space is a Queen album.   I was just making a point to the poster to whom I was responding that it's flawed logic that if  Band X releases an album that doesn't mean expectations, it's silly to say that particular album is not a part of Band X's catalog. 

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« Reply #29 on: January 05, 2018, 05:20:08 AM »

Still Cruisin is a good beach boys album. A VERY good album. Summer In Paradise is a very badly produced and recorded album with a few of the worst songs the beach boys have recorded(Summer of Love, the Surfin remake). It also has a few pearls among the mud(law aloha, Strange Things Happen, the title track). To not include them as beach boys album is disrespectful to the group and it's legacy. Look, It's pretty much an open secret that SIP is a "Beach Boys" album pretty much in name only, with cameo appearances from Al and Carl. But MIU is basically the same thing(i know, substitute Al for Dennis). Do we discount MIU? No. I think of SIP as Carl's equivalent to Mike's Smile. Mike may not have liked the music of lyrics, but he sang the absolute sh*t out of "Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield". Carl may not have wanted to sing or even participate in the recording of limp, sterile, unnecessary covers of old songs, but he not only want them, he made them come alive. And God bless him for it. To deny him that offends me.

EXACTLY.

Still Cruisin may not be on par with the albums recorded during the glory years, but I think it's a pretty good listen. 
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« Reply #30 on: January 05, 2018, 05:50:22 AM »

Still Cruisin is a good beach boys album. A VERY good album. Summer In Paradise is a very badly produced and recorded album with a few of the worst songs the beach boys have recorded(Summer of Love, the Surfin remake). It also has a few pearls among the mud(law aloha, Strange Things Happen, the title track). To not include them as beach boys album is disrespectful to the group and it's legacy. Look, It's pretty much an open secret that SIP is a "Beach Boys" album pretty much in name only, with cameo appearances from Al and Carl. But MIU is basically the same thing(i know, substitute Al for Dennis). Do we discount MIU? No. I think of SIP as Carl's equivalent to Mike's Smile. Mike may not have liked the music of lyrics, but he sang the absolute sh*t out of "Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield". Carl may not have wanted to sing or even participate in the recording of limp, sterile, unnecessary covers of old songs, but he not only want them, he made them come alive. And God bless him for it. To deny him that offends me.

EXACTLY.

Still Cruisin may not be on par with the albums recorded during the glory years, but I think it's a pretty good listen. 
I'd say all of the songs except Still Cruisin' (which is boring to me)  are enjoyable.
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« Reply #31 on: January 05, 2018, 06:18:29 AM »

Interesting to see the somersaults some will use to try to legitimize this crap.  I see several attempts to mischaracterize my comments, but the Carl=monkeys one is so far out there that I had to laugh at it.

In any case, although I should know better than to waste more time on this, I'll try again.  For both albums, Dennis was dead, and Brian had moved onto a solo career.  If you think that a legitimate "Beach Boys" exists with just the others ... well, I can't help you.  And it wasn't really even all of the others.  Wiki says that Bruce was "the only band member actually to play on" Summer in Paradise.  Still Cruisin' was, in a sense, "better," but given that three of the songs were reruns from more than 20 years earlier, and another was the Fat Boys, it's far from a real album.

Here's the other thing -- these "albums" have not, as the OP lamented, been re-released.  There's a reason for that.  Don't try to act as though I'm the crazy one (or simply a troll) when it's a very small number of you who are fighting reality.

Dude, you're just arguing that the albums suck. Nobody much immensely disagrees with you, especially when it comes to the objective fact that most critics and fans didn't give these albums good reviews. Apparently fans are being "naïve" and "doing somersaults" even if they say "Well, you know, "Somewhere Near Japan" is pretty good", but in any event, everyone here I think is stipulating to the general rating and reputation of these albums.

If you can't wrap your head around why shitty albums should not be *erased from existence* and that they're part of documenting history, then you're the one doing somersaults.

It's also naïve to assume that these albums aren't in print because they suck, as if there's some arbiter at Capitol or BRI applying QA to each of these things. "Still Cruisin'" is likely wrapped up in licensing issues (and may still be available via streaming), and/or Capitol is just being lazy about what they keep in print. The album went gold. Other albums that *are* in print fared worse on the charts.

Nobody on *this* board needs you to explain the history of these albums. We know they got bad reviews. We know who was dead when the albums were made, and who is and isn't on the albums and in what capacity. Just because you're drawing an arbitrary line starting with 1989 as to when YOU think the band was no longer "The Beach Boys", it doesn't mean anyone else would draw such a line. No explanation required. And even if everyone agreed precisely with your logic and arbitrary line, it still wouldn't have anything to do with whether the albums should be blinked out of existence or what, I guess go back in time and make sure they were never made.

I've never been a fan of Mike touring with the BB name. But I wouldn't erase evidence of his shows from existence. Even if you think something sucks, it should remain documented if for no other reason than to document and prove the suckiness of it.
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« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2018, 06:20:45 AM »

My suggestion: reissue Still Cruisin' the way it should have been in the first place. Ditch the 3 60's tracks, add some 80's tracks in their place like:
 Rock 'N' Roll to the Rescue and California Dreamin from Made in USA (and CD's b-side, Lady Liberty)
 Barbie (Living Doll) - although I suspect Brian is the only BB  is on it, but it was released as a BB's track
 Runaway (live version only released on the Sunkist album)
 Happy Endings (I know... I know... I hate it too, but the BB vocals are sublime)
 Chasin' the Sky (from Up the Creek)
 That would collect up all the loose ends from the 80's. For SIP, I would throw in Crocodile Rock and Problem Child.

There would be licensing issues with some of those songs (Carl even spoke in a 1989 interview as to why "Chasin' the Sky" wasn't included on the SC album). A big boxed set of random stuff might be better.

I sense there might be unreleased stuff from that era that's better than either those random non-album tracks *or* the songs that made it onto the album.
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« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2018, 06:43:39 AM »

Still Cruisin is a good beach boys album. A VERY good album. Summer In Paradise is a very badly produced and recorded album with a few of the worst songs the beach boys have recorded(Summer of Love, the Surfin remake). It also has a few pearls among the mud(law aloha, Strange Things Happen, the title track). To not include them as beach boys album is disrespectful to the group and it's legacy. Look, It's pretty much an open secret that SIP is a "Beach Boys" album pretty much in name only, with cameo appearances from Al and Carl. But MIU is basically the same thing(i know, substitute Al for Dennis). Do we discount MIU? No. I think of SIP as Carl's equivalent to Mike's Smile. Mike may not have liked the music of lyrics, but he sang the absolute sh*t out of "Over and over, the crow cries uncover the cornfield". Carl may not have wanted to sing or even participate in the recording of limp, sterile, unnecessary covers of old songs, but he not only want them, he made them come alive. And God bless him for it. To deny him that offends me.

EXACTLY.

Still Cruisin may not be on par with the albums recorded during the glory years, but I think it's a pretty good listen. 
I'd say all of the songs except Still Cruisin' (which is boring to me)  are enjoyable.

I actually kinda like that song.   The only of the "new" songs that doesn't speak to me is Wipe Out, but I'm not a fan of rap. 
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« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2018, 07:18:07 AM »

The main outside influence making SC and even SIP weird and compromised was the whole Landy situation. It's why Brian was barely integrated into the band in 1988/89, and the immediate aftermath of Brian being extricated from Landy was presumably why he wasn't anywhere to be seen on SIP.

But if we're going to start erasing stuff that Landy directly or indirect impacted, then pretty much everything Brian was a part of from 1983 to 1992 would have to be erased. So no BW '88 album, and so on.


And if we're going to start erasing stuff just because *you* think it sucks, then a ton of their entire catalog is on the table.

Still Cruisin' was my introduction to the Beach Boys as a 9 year-old. Uncle Jesse and Full House was how I learned to love their music or at least their personas as a kid. It's unfair to think someone doesn't consider it real BB music because they don't like it. I guess if I grew up on Pet Sounds, I would feel the same way.

Personally, what I don't consider BB material is the awful Nashville Sounds album.
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« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2018, 07:22:56 AM »

For the longest time I believed Somewhere Near Japan would have been the last, GREAT BB song.
Thankfully, we got TWGMTR and a few nice tracks on that.
Still Surfin' on SIP is great but not so sure how many Beach Boys are on that track ...
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« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2018, 07:23:22 AM »

The main outside influence making SC and even SIP weird and compromised was the whole Landy situation. It's why Brian was barely integrated into the band in 1988/89, and the immediate aftermath of Brian being extricated from Landy was presumably why he wasn't anywhere to be seen on SIP.

But if we're going to start erasing stuff that Landy directly or indirect impacted, then pretty much everything Brian was a part of from 1983 to 1992 would have to be erased. So no BW '88 album, and so on.


And if we're going to start erasing stuff just because *you* think it sucks, then a ton of their entire catalog is on the table.

Still Cruisin' was my introduction to the Beach Boys as a 9 year-old. Uncle Jesse and Full House was how I learned to love their music or at least their personas as a kid. It's unfair to think someone doesn't consider it real BB music because they don't like it. I guess if I grew up on Pet Sounds, I would feel the same way.

Personally, what I don't consider BB material is the awful Nashville Sounds album.

I don't even mind if people think those albums are awful and didn't deserve to be called "Beach Boys" albums. Regardless of any of that, they *were* released as BB albums and therefore are part of the historical record.
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« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2018, 07:25:55 AM »

For the longest time I believed Somewhere Near Japan would have been the last, GREAT BB song.
Thankfully, we got TWGMTR and a few nice tracks on that.
Still Surfin' on SIP is great but not so sure how many Beach Boys are on that track ...

SNJ is solid. I like it. I think it's sometimes overly-praised because of the relatively paucity of other good material for BB fans to chew on from that era. It doesn't quite reach *great* status for me. But I'm glad to have it. Most of the "new" stuff on the SC album is innocuous as worst.

Some of the tracks like "Make It Big" would probably sound a bit better remixed and liberated from the awful 80s production. Imagine a dry, stripped-down mix of "Make It Big" with just vocals and acoustic guitars. Could be pretty good.
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« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2018, 07:40:49 AM »

The main outside influence making SC and even SIP weird and compromised was the whole Landy situation. It's why Brian was barely integrated into the band in 1988/89, and the immediate aftermath of Brian being extricated from Landy was presumably why he wasn't anywhere to be seen on SIP.

But if we're going to start erasing stuff that Landy directly or indirect impacted, then pretty much everything Brian was a part of from 1983 to 1992 would have to be erased. So no BW '88 album, and so on.


And if we're going to start erasing stuff just because *you* think it sucks, then a ton of their entire catalog is on the table.

Still Cruisin' was my introduction to the Beach Boys as a 9 year-old. Uncle Jesse and Full House was how I learned to love their music or at least their personas as a kid. It's unfair to think someone doesn't consider it real BB music because they don't like it. I guess if I grew up on Pet Sounds, I would feel the same way.

Personally, what I don't consider BB material is the awful Nashville Sounds album.

Being born in 1980, that was Kokomo / Full House was also my first exposure to The Beach Boys also.  So, I can relate.  However, although I don't agree with it, I can kinda see how long time fans or newer fans that didn't grow up in the 80s don't appreciate Kokomo or that time period. 

Even though it said The Beach Boys on the album cover, I rarely see Stars and Stripes listed in the list of proper BB albums.  If anything, I'd put it in the same category as live releases or Stacks of Tracks, where it exists, but not quite a part of the canon. 
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« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2018, 07:54:07 AM »

Give me Still Cruisin over Love You any day. The album overall is subpar, but Carl's vocals on "Somewhere Near Japan" are some of my favorite Carl vocals ever. SC was my first beach boys album, gifted to me during a multi-day boat trip.

To clarify its digital status, it was available in full on Spotify for several months after the service became available in the U.S. As time passed, I noticed songs disappearing from the Spotify album. As of a few months ago, there was an entry for it in the database (which is why Google still returns a (broken) entry for it). Now it is completely missing from Spotify.

This is a sore spot for me, since I can't for the life of my understand why-- even if it's out of print physically-- some label employee can't just uploar (or in this case re-upload") digital versions of the tracks. I had to buy a used CD of the album, but if it were available on iTunes I'd buy it in a heartbeat. I suppose the album sucks so much they don't want my money?
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« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2018, 07:57:02 AM »

Give me Still Cruisin over Love You any day.

I thought I was the only one. 
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« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2018, 09:07:47 AM »

Weird trivia on the SC album is that, at some point (maybe eons ago on the BB Britain board?) Bruce named Al's lead part on "Somewhere Near Japan" as his favorite Al lead vocal of all time. I wouldn't go that far, and Bruce not surprisingly often has more of an affinity for projects he was more heavily involved with (Sunflower, "Somewhere Near Japan", etc.), but interesting trivia nonetheless. Al does sound excellent on that one.

A remix of that track would possibly yield even better results. Maybe remove the kind of embarrassing too-obvious Asian instrumentation at the beginning, and make some other subtle adjustments.

Weirdly, the vintage "single edit/remix" is pretty limp; it kind of sounds like a demo because they drop out the drums too much.
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« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2018, 09:10:11 AM »

I'd jettison SC in a heartbeat over "Love You." "Love You" has better compositions, and as a truly "Brian" article, it's indispensable. SC just kind of accidentally has some decent material, running on the fumes of the talents mainly of Al and Carl's voices and Terry Melcher's ability to write a catchy melody/chord change.

But stunningly, we *are* allowed to have both in our collections! Mind-blowingly, I can make a play list that has "Island Girl" *and* "The Night Was So Young!"
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« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2018, 09:18:27 AM »

I'd jettison SC in a heartbeat over "Love You." "Love You" has better compositions, and as a truly "Brian" article, it's indispensable. SC just kind of accidentally has some decent material, running on the fumes of the talents mainly of Al and Carl's voices and Terry Melcher's ability to write a catchy melody/chord change.

But stunningly, we *are* allowed to have both in our collections! Mind-blowingly, I can make a play list that has "Island Girl" *and* "The Night Was So Young!"

That's probably because, despite some objections here (well one), both are actually Beach Boys albums. 

Love You was definitely a Brian led BB album, but to be honest, the songs of it do little to nothing for me, and I struggle to find six songs on Love You that I like.   Where as I like all six non rap or oldies songs on SC.  Al and Carl sound good, but I think Mike puts in some decent leads on SC as well.   Ah, the days of clean Mike Love vocals. 
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« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2018, 09:25:31 AM »

This is such a crazy discussion.  Of course they are BB albums.  Do we even need to explain why? 

However, I disagree with HeyJude’s assertion that SIP is easy to find on used CD.  It took years of searching for my husband to find it (and he is a crazy CD fiend who browses used CD stores, thrift stores etc...a few times a week).  In my experience, a zillion copies of Still Cruisin are available but very few of SIP. 
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« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2018, 09:28:48 AM »

For those that can't get past the arrangement/production on "Love You" (I can myself), the 1976 "Love You/Adult Child" piano demo tape shows how great many of those compositions are.

"Mona" and to a lesser degree "Love is a Woman" are rather dispensable. Pretty much everything else I've always enjoyed.

Objectively, "Love You" is much more unified, smooth *album* experience.

Whereas, with SC it takes like 27 qualifiers just to explain the stuff one likes about the album. "Well, if you get rid of the three oldies and the rap duet, and discount the already-released tracks, and keep in mind how Landy would only loan Brian out to the band on an hourly basis, and then take into account the internecine band politics of the era, then you have almost 1/2 of a not-too-bad album!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

But yeah, I dig several of the tracks on the album. It's objectively not a good *album* in the literal sense. It's only 50 or 60% a *new* album, and even *those* new tracks, while generally okay-to-good-to-very-good, aren't A+ material.
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« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2018, 09:33:51 AM »

For those that can't get past the arrangement/production on "Love You" (I can myself), the 1976 "Love You/Adult Child" piano demo tape shows how great many of those compositions are.

"Mona" and to a lesser degree "Love is a Woman" are rather dispensable. Pretty much everything else I've always enjoyed.

Objectively, "Love You" is much more unified, smooth *album* experience.

Whereas, with SC it takes like 27 qualifiers just to explain the stuff one likes about the album. "Well, if you get rid of the three oldies and the rap duet, and discount the already-released tracks, and keep in mind how Landy would only loan Brian out to the band on an hourly basis, and then take into account the internecine band politics of the era, then you have almost 1/2 of a not-too-bad album!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

But yeah, I dig several of the tracks on the album. It's objectively not a good *album* in the literal sense. It's only 50 or 60% a *new* album, and even *those* new tracks, while generally okay-to-good-to-very-good, aren't A+ material.

It's not so much the production of Love You.   Personally, I just don't think the songs are that great.  More unified album?  Sure. 

The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You. 

But, speaking of disjointed, 20/20 is one of my favorite Beach Boys albums. 
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« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2018, 09:34:32 AM »

This is such a crazy discussion.  Of course they are BB albums.  Do we even need to explain why?  

However, I disagree with HeyJude’s assertion that SIP is easy to find on used CD.  It took years of searching for my husband to find it (and he is a crazy CD fiend who browses used CD stores, thrift stores etc...a few times a week).  In my experience, a zillion copies of Still Cruisin are available but very few of SIP.  

It's certainly all relative. I wouldn't expect to find SIP in 2018 in any random used CD bin. If you only shop at brick-and-mortar stores, then all bets are off. I wouldn't expect to find the majority of the BB or solo catalog. But usually, there are five to ten or more copies up on eBay. As with most items, the prices range from ridiculously high to pretty low. But finished eBay auction searches show dozens of copies have been sold in the last few months, as low as $10.

Amazon also has a half dozen copies of the CD under $25, which isn't bad for a CD that sold very few copies and has been out of print for most of the last 25 years.

So I'd stick by the general assertion that it doesn't take much looking or much money to find SIP on CD. If you're only willing to pay under $10 and old look at brick-and-mortar used CD shops and thrift shops, then yeah, it'll probably be pretty challenging.

It's actually harder to find (and more expensive) to get a physical CD copy of the 2000 "MIU/LA" two-fer CD at this point, as that *one* particular two-fer has been out of print for awhile.
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« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2018, 09:35:55 AM »

For those that can't get past the arrangement/production on "Love You" (I can myself), the 1976 "Love You/Adult Child" piano demo tape shows how great many of those compositions are.

"Mona" and to a lesser degree "Love is a Woman" are rather dispensable. Pretty much everything else I've always enjoyed.

Objectively, "Love You" is much more unified, smooth *album* experience.

Whereas, with SC it takes like 27 qualifiers just to explain the stuff one likes about the album. "Well, if you get rid of the three oldies and the rap duet, and discount the already-released tracks, and keep in mind how Landy would only loan Brian out to the band on an hourly basis, and then take into account the internecine band politics of the era, then you have almost 1/2 of a not-too-bad album!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

But yeah, I dig several of the tracks on the album. It's objectively not a good *album* in the literal sense. It's only 50 or 60% a *new* album, and even *those* new tracks, while generally okay-to-good-to-very-good, aren't A+ material.

It's not so much the production of Love You.   Personally, I just don't think the songs are that great.  More unified album?  Sure. 

The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You. 

But, speaking of disjointed, 20/20 is one of my favorite Beach Boys albums. 

Brian's piano demos for "I'll Bet He's Nice" and "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" (among others) really do *nothing* for you? Some of the moments on that tape are some of the most amazing Brian/BB moments ever caught on tape, certainly when we're talking about the post-mid-70s era.
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« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2018, 09:39:19 AM »

For those that can't get past the arrangement/production on "Love You" (I can myself), the 1976 "Love You/Adult Child" piano demo tape shows how great many of those compositions are.

"Mona" and to a lesser degree "Love is a Woman" are rather dispensable. Pretty much everything else I've always enjoyed.

Objectively, "Love You" is much more unified, smooth *album* experience.

Whereas, with SC it takes like 27 qualifiers just to explain the stuff one likes about the album. "Well, if you get rid of the three oldies and the rap duet, and discount the already-released tracks, and keep in mind how Landy would only loan Brian out to the band on an hourly basis, and then take into account the internecine band politics of the era, then you have almost 1/2 of a not-too-bad album!" Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

But yeah, I dig several of the tracks on the album. It's objectively not a good *album* in the literal sense. It's only 50 or 60% a *new* album, and even *those* new tracks, while generally okay-to-good-to-very-good, aren't A+ material.

It's not so much the production of Love You.   Personally, I just don't think the songs are that great.  More unified album?  Sure. 

The only qualifier I really need to enjoy SC is that there are six Beach Boys songs on it that I really enjoy.  I do agree that it's basically an EP disguised as an album, but disjointed as it is, I still enjoy it more than Love You. 

But, speaking of disjointed, 20/20 is one of my favorite Beach Boys albums. 

Brian's piano demos for "I'll Bet He's Nice" and "Let's Put Our Hearts Together" (among others) really do *nothing* for you? Some of the moments on that tape are some of the most amazing Brian/BB moments ever caught on tape, certainly when we're talking about the post-mid-70s era.

Not really.  To be honest, for the most part I don't get the attraction of that era BW tapes.  For my money, the last song that Brian wrote for The Beach Boys that I'd really call special / amazing is Til I Die (with the possibly exception of the closing trio on TWGMTR). 

In general, when it comes to The Beach Boys, I tend to stick to the pre Endless Summer material. 
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