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Author Topic: Brian Wilson - 2018 Tour Thread  (Read 146142 times)
HeyJude
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« Reply #350 on: January 30, 2018, 06:19:42 AM »

Of course these guys are all old and their age dictates some level of at least an acknowledgement (maybe not always full-on "concern") that their age dictates things are more likely to take a bad turn.

But I'll be honest, I think at this stage Brian's *age* has surprisingly little to do with his level of enthusiasm or lethargy on stage. Last year, his first sets saw some of the most energetic, enthusiastic performances in years. His PS performances were very oddly the exact opposite. But that wasn't because he's old or having health problems. I think he just got bored with PS. Not even bored enough to not want to do the tour. Just bored, plain old bored. It appears they have tried to mitigate this to some degree by doing things like giving Al the lead on "Here Today."

But really, how many shows has Brian canceled due to health issues since going out in 1999? I'm pretty sure Bruce Johnston, who barely does *anything* at Mike's shows (even on an off night and with Al and Blondie and Matt and Darian singing leads, Brian *still* carries his show *far* more than Bruce *ever* has), has missed more shows in the last 15 years due to health issues than Brian.

If you want to just call Brian overweight, then I guess just do it. But there are older, more immobile people than Brian still out there touring. His back issues seemed more prevalent in 2012, and as others have pointed out, I have also known several people (younger than Brian!) with *severe* back issues, and it's something that usually *never* goes away once you've reached the point of surgery. Back surgeries usually don't make one's back a lot better. It often basically curtails further damage and hopefully more severe pain, and ideally helps with pain and some level of mobility. But when you're in your 70s and have back surgery and chronic back problems, it's always going to be an issue. Further, I would also say from experience that *every* person I've known with severe back problems with *absolutely* let it be known when they can't do something. Back issues aren't just a "pushing through the pain" issue. If Brian's back was still severe enough to warrant not touring, he wouldn't be doing it. He wouldn't have a choice. He wouldn't be able to move enough to get out of bed let alone shuffle on stage (with or without help). He wouldn't even be able to *sit* for two hours like he does.

This all reminds me of the infamous 2007 gig where Brian decided to lie down on stage. I was at the show. Not only did it quickly morph into "Brian passed out", etc., it started a huge conversation about whether Brian should be touring. I don't think that conversation was or is invalid. But I also think that, even in 2018, the question of whether he should be touring has not changed from what it was in 1999.

Bottom line, trying to draw some arbitrary point at which *you* think Brian maybe shouldn't be touring doesn't really work when you look at the objective facts. I'm just not a fan of spending a decade going to Brian shows, then all of a sudden seeing a show *you* think is sub-par, and then insinuating things about whether he should be on the road. The question of whether he should be on the road is a valid one from the fan perspective. But it was back in 1999. Hell, it was a valid question back in 1976, and 1982, and 1988, and so on.
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« Reply #351 on: January 30, 2018, 06:26:23 AM »


You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.
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« Reply #352 on: January 30, 2018, 06:36:06 AM »


You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 
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« Reply #353 on: January 30, 2018, 06:40:28 AM »


You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 

Okay, well if you're not looking at passage of time or otherwise comparing Brian's appearance to any other period of time, how are you gauging whether *you* feel he's overweight? And not just overweight, but overweight enough to warrant concern?

And, have you continued to attend shows even after you've felt Brian's condition appears to warrant concern?
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« Reply #354 on: January 30, 2018, 06:44:37 AM »


You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 


Do you actually know whether Brian is heavier or has more serious back problems today than he did one year ago, or two, or three, or five, etc.?

The answer of course is no, none of us know. And again, as I mentioned in a previous post, back issues can be among the most debilitating. But *serious* back problems also quickly dictate that someone that can't do something (e.g. touring) won't do it. When back problems get hugely severe, there's no "pushing through" it. I'd wager that Brian, however much he and others around him *all* want him to keep touring to stay active, would make it known *in a heartbeat* if his back problems dictated he couldn't tour.

I never said it was more or less than a year or two ago. 

Okay, well if you're not looking at passage of time or otherwise comparing Brian's appearance to any other period of time, how are you gauging whether *you* feel he's overweight? And not just overweight, but overweight enough to warrant concern?

And, have you continued to attend shows even after you've felt Brian's condition appears to warrant concern?

At one of the PS shows I attended, Brian did struggle to get to and from the piano. 

By the way, that's not me saying that Brian Wilson should quit touring and sit in a wheelchair for the remainder of his days. 
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« Reply #355 on: January 30, 2018, 07:06:10 AM »

Guitarfool and I never said his back issue wasn’t a real issue.

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “very overweight”. Is that a true or false statement?

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “lethargic” onstage. Is that a true or false statement?

Reposting in case this was accidentally missed.
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« Reply #356 on: January 30, 2018, 08:53:01 AM »

Guitarfool and I never said his back issue wasn’t a real issue.

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “very overweight”. Is that a true or false statement?

You claimed/agreed that Brian Wilson is “lethargic” onstage. Is that a true or false statement?

Reposting in case this was accidentally missed.

Maybe not very overweight, but he could stand to lose some pounds (as could I), as for lethargic, during the PS portion of the show, I have to agree.  Which is why I hope he gets away from doing that album in concert.   I think he's fine during the first half of each show and the encore. 

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« Reply #357 on: January 30, 2018, 09:05:09 AM »

I have to repeat, I don't think Brian's evident boredom performing PS on recent dates has anything to do with his health. He's just bored. One could argue there's a management/PR issue at play (e.g. Tell Brian he sounds and looks bored and either work on fixing that, or move on to some other songs). But his back or his weight has nothing to do with Brian eventually finding PS something of a chore to plow through.
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« Reply #358 on: January 30, 2018, 09:05:14 AM »

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?
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« Reply #359 on: January 30, 2018, 09:17:01 AM »

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 
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HeyJude
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« Reply #360 on: January 30, 2018, 09:29:05 AM »


I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   


How does one act grossing more total money than another not tell the full story? There's *always* a ton of context. Maybe some bands did one show so didn't make the list. U2 plays stadiums *and* charges a ton for tickets. Some bands charge less and play more shows. Some play fewer shows and charge more for tickets. It's absolutely implicit in any list of top grossing artists that such a list isn't ranking anything other than that one figure. 

If anything, the (obvious) main factor that led to Brian making such a list (playing more total shows and for the first time something even in the ballpark compared to how many shows Mike does) is the most interesting takeaway from the list.

Now, that graph that was posted a ways back is interesting because it potentially shows for the first time the *possibility* (and I stress it's only a possibility without further years of data, which we probably won't get as Brian doesn't appear to be planning nearly as many dates this year) that Brian's touring is actually *eating into* Mike's touring numbers.

All of this is interesting not in a "my team beat your team!" context, but rather in the context of the continued standoffish political stuff between the "camps", especially post-C50. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these year-end numbers might annoy Mike to no end, and it's interesting to note that it could have been the reunited Beach Boys doing a "Pet Sounds 50th" tour in 2016 and 2017, where everybody would have helped to pull in even more money.
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« Reply #361 on: January 30, 2018, 09:36:57 AM »

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.

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« Reply #362 on: January 30, 2018, 09:43:51 AM »

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda? 

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges. 

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018? 


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses. 

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant. 





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.   

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame. 

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 
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« Reply #363 on: January 30, 2018, 09:45:03 AM »

Let us not forget that Brian's $8.5 million gross may have still netted him less money than Mike's $6.9 million gross considering Brian's larger overhead. Not to mention, I believe Mike does far more corporate/private gigs than Brian.

So it's not like anyone should be cheering that Brian personally pocketed more money than Mike last year off of touring. Rather, it's simply interesting that Brian has for apparently the first time grossed more than a band licensing the "Beach Boys" name. What it probably means is a continued uptick in prestige and demand for Brian, and simultaneously a downturn and dilution of Mike's touring brand. Mike is still a long way off from actually struggling in any way while touring. He has already diluted the name and brand and reverted to, in some cases, *very small* venues. I don't think he'd be willing or able to book venues even smaller than what he does now. We'd probably see him finally retire before booking *exclusively* cook-offs and festivals and secondary casino markets.
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« Reply #364 on: January 30, 2018, 09:49:58 AM »

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And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

KDS. You just admitted you over-exaggerated Brian’s problems. You did it to make your point about a Vegas residency seem more of a legitimate idea than it is. You had presented us with over-exaggerations and you’re still calling them “facts”.

If it lightly rains outside and I say “it rained heavily” thats me over-exaggerating and telling a falsehood. Same applies to what you wrote. So yeah, when it applies to Brian looking bad for the sake of your argument that he should consider shacking up in Vegas for the duration of his concert career then yes, I’m going to harp on that until you stop calling false statements “facts”.

I totally acknowledge that Brian is overweight. I totally acknowledge that he sometimes seems uninterested in some songs onstage. I totally acknowledge that he has back problems. I have acknowledged this through our whole monotonous conversation. But you were making his problems sound worse than they are, admitted to doing so, and yet Guitarfool and I are the ones with the problem of taking this stuff to heart?
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« Reply #365 on: January 30, 2018, 09:53:26 AM »

Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 

I truly don't want to turn this into a more contentious discussion. But I'd like to make a couple of points.

First, concerning "reputations" of boards, and I'm loathe to get into the topic of other boards, but let it be known that that "other" board you post on also has a "reputation."

Also, I tried like nobody's business to try to steer another thread recently away from a direction that unfairly makes *all of us* look like idiots (the weird subset of Beach Boys fans who have a hangup about the Beatles), doing everything I could to not cement the reputation of some amount of Beach Boys fans as troglodytes who listen to 99.9% Beach Boys and nothing else. For that I was dismissed for having the audacity to try to do something *for the board*, for the reputation/perception of BB fans rather than just my own opinion.

So, this definitely cuts both ways. This board can always improve, no question. But what the board *doesn't* need is insinuations about a "reputation" in relation to the BS that went down with now-expunged posters from a year or two ago.
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« Reply #366 on: January 30, 2018, 09:55:11 AM »

Quote
And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

KDS. You just admitted you over-exaggerated Brian’s problems. You did it to make your point about a Vegas residency seem more of a legitimate idea than it is. You had presented us with over-exaggerations and you’re still calling them “facts”.

If it lightly rains outside and I say “it rained heavily” thats me over-exaggerating and telling a falsehood. Same applies to what you wrote. So yeah, when it applies to Brian looking bad for the sake of your argument that he should consider shacking up in Vegas for the duration of his concert career then yes, I’m going to harp on that until you stop calling false statements “facts”.

I totally acknowledge that Brian is overweight. I totally acknowledge that he sometimes seems uninterested in some songs onstage. I totally acknowledge that he has back problems. I have acknowledged this through our whole monotonous conversation. But you were making his problems sound worse than they are, admitted to doing so, and yet Guitarfool and I are the ones with the problem of taking this stuff to heart?

Tell me how suggesting a Vegas residency, which many legacy artists have done to reduce the cost and physical strain of touring, for Brian Wilson is a bad thing.   How is this me saying Brian's too frail to tour??

Once again, you and Guitarfool are taking it all the wrong way, and you and he are the ones harping on this.   Not me.  

But once again, anyone who dares say anything that can be interpreted as a negative comment about Brian Wilson is taken to the wood shed.  
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« Reply #367 on: January 30, 2018, 09:57:15 AM »

Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 

I truly don't want to turn this into a more contentious discussion. But I'd like to make a couple of points.

First, concerning "reputations" of boards, and I'm loathe to get into the topic of other boards, but let it be known that that "other" board you post on also has a "reputation."

Also, I tried like nobody's business to try to steer another thread recently away from a direction that unfairly makes *all of us* look like idiots (the weird subset of Beach Boys fans who have a hangup about the Beatles), doing everything I could to not cement the reputation of some amount of Beach Boys fans as troglodytes who listen to 99.9% Beach Boys and nothing else. For that I was dismissed for having the audacity to try to do something *for the board*, for the reputation/perception of BB fans rather than just my own opinion.

So, this definitely cuts both ways. This board can always improve, no question. But what the board *doesn't* need is insinuations about a "reputation" in relation to the BS that went down with now-expunged posters from a year or two ago.

Oh, yes, Hey Jude, show us dullards the way. 

The polls Watamushi creates is much more stimulating to me than this typical BS. 
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« Reply #368 on: January 30, 2018, 10:00:11 AM »

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".
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« Reply #369 on: January 30, 2018, 10:07:42 AM »

Fine. 

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB. 

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end. 

I truly don't want to turn this into a more contentious discussion. But I'd like to make a couple of points.

First, concerning "reputations" of boards, and I'm loathe to get into the topic of other boards, but let it be known that that "other" board you post on also has a "reputation."

Also, I tried like nobody's business to try to steer another thread recently away from a direction that unfairly makes *all of us* look like idiots (the weird subset of Beach Boys fans who have a hangup about the Beatles), doing everything I could to not cement the reputation of some amount of Beach Boys fans as troglodytes who listen to 99.9% Beach Boys and nothing else. For that I was dismissed for having the audacity to try to do something *for the board*, for the reputation/perception of BB fans rather than just my own opinion.

So, this definitely cuts both ways. This board can always improve, no question. But what the board *doesn't* need is insinuations about a "reputation" in relation to the BS that went down with now-expunged posters from a year or two ago.

Oh, yes, Hey Jude, show us dullards the way. 

The polls Watamushi creates is much more stimulating to me than this typical BS. 

I don't think "dullard" is the right descriptor at all.

I think a pretty small subset of BB fan has a *ridiculous* close-minded preference for the Beach Boys over anything else. This occurs sometimes in conjunction with an equally ridiculous hang-up specifically about the Beatles.

This group of people, even if somewhat small in number, reflect poorly on this board to the point that I think it's embarrassing.

I get it, if you don't think Mike Love doing schtick with John Stamos damages the BBs reputation in any substantial way, you probably also don't think that a group of BB fans spewing ridiculously over-the-top criticisms about the Beatles makes the fan community as a whole (and/or this particular board) look like a bunch of neurotic fans with tunnel vision.

I obviously think otherwise.

My point was that you were quick to question someone's motives about improving this board in another thread, yet you're trying to lecture the moderator of this board about its "reputation." And that's not even treading into the question, which was also lobbed at me in another thread, a question I loathe, which is the "If you hate it so much, why are you posting here?" question.
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« Reply #370 on: January 30, 2018, 10:09:40 AM »

Quote
And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart. 

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour. 

KDS. You just admitted you over-exaggerated Brian’s problems. You did it to make your point about a Vegas residency seem more of a legitimate idea than it is. You had presented us with over-exaggerations and you’re still calling them “facts”.

If it lightly rains outside and I say “it rained heavily” thats me over-exaggerating and telling a falsehood. Same applies to what you wrote. So yeah, when it applies to Brian looking bad for the sake of your argument that he should consider shacking up in Vegas for the duration of his concert career then yes, I’m going to harp on that until you stop calling false statements “facts”.

I totally acknowledge that Brian is overweight. I totally acknowledge that he sometimes seems uninterested in some songs onstage. I totally acknowledge that he has back problems. I have acknowledged this through our whole monotonous conversation. But you were making his problems sound worse than they are, admitted to doing so, and yet Guitarfool and I are the ones with the problem of taking this stuff to heart?

Tell me how suggesting a Vegas residency, which many legacy artists have done to reduce the cost and physical strain of touring, for Brian Wilson is a bad thing.   How is this me saying Brian's too frail to tour??

Once again, you and Guitarfool are taking it all the wrong way, and you and he are the ones harping on this.   Not me.  

But once again, anyone who dares say anything that can be interpreted as a negative comment about Brian Wilson is taken to the wood shed.  

Never did I say that a Vegas residency would be a bad thing. Never did I say you said Brian is too frail to tour.

You agreed with over-exaggerated facts regarding Brian Wilson, I called it out, you denied it, then you finally admitted to it. Not sure what you’re still going on about.
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« Reply #371 on: January 30, 2018, 10:15:17 AM »

Here's an additional, pretty simple reason why someone bringing up Brian's "health", especially someone who tends to be more apologetic regarding some (but not all) of Mike Love's faults, is going to be met with extra skepticism:

There is a pattern, especially over the last 4-5 years, of Mike Love giving interviews and, without prompting, going to town on Brian's past drug/substance abuse problems (certainly "health" issues), the substance abuse problems of Brian's brothers, and Brian's present health in terms of being "medicated." Mike has gone so far as to liken Brian's current status to that of his time with Landy in the 80s/early 90. In addition (and coming across as in conjunction with Mike), one noted publisher of a BB fanzine wrote an article online that was outright *offensive* concerning Brian's current health (this was the infamous "Is he brain damaged? Yes." article).

Obviously, back stuff and weight stuff isn't as inflammatory. But it can contribute to a perception of some level of questioning Brian's ability to tour, his control over his life, etc.

Mike Love has also specifically referenced Brian being out of shape, overweight, etc. in recent years. One might normally ascribe a bit more credibility to Mike's insights. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to know Brian very well anymore. Probably hasn't seen him in person in five going on six years, and still incorrectly states the type of mental condition that Brian has been diagnosed with.
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« Reply #372 on: January 30, 2018, 10:27:45 AM »

Here's an additional, pretty simple reason why someone bringing up Brian's "health", especially someone who tends to be more apologetic regarding some (but not all) of Mike Love's faults, is going to be met with extra skepticism:

There is a pattern, especially over the last 4-5 years, of Mike Love giving interviews and, without prompting, going to town on Brian's past drug/substance abuse problems (certainly "health" issues), the substance abuse problems of Brian's brothers, and Brian's present health in terms of being "medicated." Mike has gone so far as to liken Brian's current status to that of his time with Landy in the 80s/early 90. In addition (and coming across as in conjunction with Mike), one noted publisher of a BB fanzine wrote an article online that was outright *offensive* concerning Brian's current health (this was the infamous "Is he brain damaged? Yes." article).

Obviously, back stuff and weight stuff isn't as inflammatory. But it can contribute to a perception of some level of questioning Brian's ability to tour, his control over his life, etc.

Mike Love has also specifically referenced Brian being out of shape, overweight, etc. in recent years. One might normally ascribe a bit more credibility to Mike's insights. Unfortunately, he doesn't seem to know Brian very well anymore. Probably hasn't seen him in person in five going on six years, and still incorrectly states the type of mental condition that Brian has been diagnosed with.

There’s also a pattern of certain posters agreeing with these statements and continuing this false dialogue.

And especially on the PS forum with very impressionable new members, its ridiculous that such posts are made in the face of overwhelming evidence against such banter. I mean, Mike is the guy who just 12 years ago said that Brian did nothing from 1967 onwards but collect royalty checks...eh Sheriff John Stone, Mike sure is a truth tellin guy, right!?

So in light of all that, this is a fandom where facts completely matter. I was swayed by people who claimed Mike was the reason for the collapse of Smile. I believed it, I was wrong in believing it, and some good fans helped me reach a logical conclusion about it. It was bullshit information to begin with, and the same goes for Brian’s health these days. When Mike is making false statements, when fans are agreeing with these false statements, when fans are making false statements of their own (even with this thread exlcluded) it does no good for the fandom.
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« Reply #373 on: January 30, 2018, 10:29:04 AM »

Well, quite frankly, that was all 2-3 years ago, isn't it time to move on a bit, and stop saying any criticism or flat out fact about Brian is part of an agenda?  

Ya know what’s funny? The only people who have mentioned an “agenda” in this thread are you and Uncle Walter. Guitarfool merely asked what your endgame was in agreeing with false statements. Given the history on this forum its not beyond the realm of logical possibility ithat someone would call that out and ask what your intentions are.

And stuff that happened 2-3 years ago that still affects this fandom to this day (and not just by passively mentioning it) isn’t something that should be forgotten...especially considering all the damage it did in the first place.

Endgame, agenda.   Apples, oranges.  

So, because of what happened 2-3 years ago, we need to sugarcoat everything as it pertains to Brian?   We should pretend he hasn't put on a little weight due to back issues?   We should pretend that his performances of Pet Sounds in 2017 were note perfect, and warrant additional shows in 2018?  


Wow, talk about putting words in someone’s mouth. You’re the one who agreed that Brian was “very overweight” not “put on a little weight” - and to be honest I think the man has actually lost weight. I don’t think Guitarfool ever said that Brian’s voice was note perfect - just that his voice and back issues didn’t warrant a residency in Vegas.

And because of what happened 2-3 years ago, yeah I agree that people who make blanket/false statements about Brian should be called out. Actually, even if the events of 2-3 years ago were nonexistent I would still question people’s intentions when they made false statements about Brian or any member of the band. Its like if I started claiming Mike looked very frail and that he needs to shack up in Reno for a residency, I would hope someone would call that out and ask why the hell I was saying that stuff.

You and GF seriously need to take a step back, and look at things without rose colored glasses.  

I fail to see how pointing out Brian's weight or pointing out that he has back issues equates to false statements.  Merely facts.  That's all that they are.  Sometimes facts aren't pleasant.  





I'll put aside all the other stuff for a moment and point out the "facts" which were posted in this thread regarding Brian's 2017 solo tour outperforming Mike's Beach Boys tour.

It's fine to suggest sometimes facts are a bitter pill to swallow, in the case of the tour numbers those figures are hard facts, as in the totals from 2017's tours. Weren't you the one, KDS, who was first to jump in and try to parse or explain away those numbers to try to lessen the impact of Brian (A) outselling Mike (B) as in A > B but with conditions and exceptions including ticket prices, gross versus net, overhead/costs, or whatever else gets thrown into the equation?

I mean, if facts are facts, and they can be unpleasant depending on your outlook, instead of trying to parse and make excuses for the facts looking as they do, why not just accept that Brian's tour in 2017 (despite the lethargy, back issues, weight issues, and the like) did better than Mike's? Or that fans spent more money to see Brian and his band play Pet Sounds in 2017 than they did to see Mike and Bruce?

I was simply pointing out that I thought it was a little funny for some non Mike fans to celebrate Brian's tour grossing more money when that doesn't tell the full story.    

And it seems to be that you and rab want to harp on Brian's back and weight issues far more than I do.   I just mentioned those two things.   You two are the ones who took it to heart.  

There's a lot more to fandom than blind adulation after all.  Which is why it's OK to criticize an album, or point out facts that may, or may not, contribute to Brian's decision to tour or not tour.  

Towards the end of 2017, it was pointed out that Mike sounded a bit ragged and Bruce had to miss some shows, and I pointed out that it's probably time for Mike to scale back on the amount of shows he does.   But, those words floated in the breeze.   Dare say something about Brian, then I just have an endgame.  

So the numbers don't tell the full story? As in, Brian's tour scored higher numbers than Mike's, even with the weight of the "Beach Boys" brand name behind Mike's tour?

I'd say if fans who have not seen Brian live were to read those mentions of Brian's weight, back issues, lethargy, and stage presence being less than enthusiastic, the opinion they'd get wouldn't be telling the "full story" either, in fact those fans reading might come away with a negative opinion of those shows if they're reading a fan's descriptions of what appear to be negatives against seeing the man play live. I mean, who wants to see an overweight, lethargic, uninterested artist with back problems who needs to be helped on and off stage perform, no less perform a set featuring an album that he's bored playing?

See how it cuts both ways?

But ultimately, more money was spent to see that tour than was spent to see the spry and energetic Mike and Bruce tour. So there's that.



Fine.  

I'm sorry you're so obsessed with what you think are jabs at Brian.  Keep thinking that way, GF.  It's doing wonders for the reputation of SSMB.  

In the meantime, why not take my advice, and try a candy bar, and maybe actually take some time to enjoy the music you claim to love so much that perceived criticisms of one of the creators causes you to go over the deep end.  

Deflect all you want, KDS. Try to turn the focus on me, and whatever other tactic you're using.  The reputation of this board has f***-all to do with any of this, but it's in line with some of your pals on the other forum who tried and failed to do the same thing. I thought that was over? Anyway...

Or you could try to reply to some of the actual points.

Such as, why is there still a group of posts in nearly every discussion of Brian's touring that bring up the same "facts" over and over again, "facts" which don't seem to have any bearing on the issue of Brian's touring since none of the negatives that have been repeated for years seem to have any effect on A: Brian's touring activity and B: Brian's ticket sales, since he did better than Mike's tour despite all these issues.

I guess it feels a lot like if a small group of posters were to bring up Glen Campbell's struggles as an alcoholic every time his name came up. As in, if someone went to see Glen's farewell tour he did with his daughter a few years ago, and posted what a great show it was, then they'd get responses like "you know he was a bad alcoholic" and "his Alzheimer's really showed and affected his performance..." etc. You'd have to wonder why "fans" would feel the need to bring up what literally everyone already knew about Glen when the bigger picture is and was Glen's fans wanting to see him play live, period.

And if the same groups of fans were the ones regularly reminding every reader about Glen's alcoholism and Alzheimer's whenever his live shows were being discussed, someone might just ask one or more of them "What's the deal?".

The first time you make a good point, I'll gladly reply.  

But, as always GF, you spin what I say to suit this weird paranoia that me, and the mean old Pet Sounds Forum posters, are out to get Brian.   Not that I'm just pointing out the concerns of ANY touring artist over 70 years of age.  

But, see it however you want.  

This back and forth is absolutely pointless as you, HJ, and rab are just going to use your Brianista logic to gang up on me three against one.  

So, by all means, enjoy.  Take Brian's gross from 2017 as some sort of victory against mean old Mike Love.    Take my suggestion that Brian take up a Vegas residency as an insult to the man.  

I'll be checking out the Beatles v Beach Boys threads, you know the ones that actually have to do with music.  
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« Reply #374 on: January 30, 2018, 10:38:44 AM »

KDS, when I make over-exaggerations about Mike there are those who rightfully call me out on it. When I make generalizations about whatever there are those who rightfully call me out on it - I mean, HeyJude (my partner in crime here who is simultaneously throwing shade at me about my opinion on the Beatles thread) just recently did this to me, and I welcome it. If I’m wrong about something, then I’m wrong.

Hell, you have swayed my opinion on occasion. But frankly, from my standpoint, I do not see how correcting an over-exaggeration is “ganging up” on you, especially an over-exaggeration that you refused to admit was an over-exaggeration until a page later. In a fandom rife with falsehoods, I think its imperative to keep things factual, no matter how small or inconsiquential the facts are.
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The Beach Boys legacy is still being mortared to this day...it has a solid and unbreakable foundation of incredible songs that tower above most bands, yet some bricks are more brittle and ugly than others (even some bricks put down more recently)...thus is the nature of any entity that continues to exist. You are not defined solely by your good achievements in life, you're also defined by those unpleasant moments too. This law of life, thankfully, helps keep us all in check.
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